Lets talk Harnesses

[Canadian818]

While most "S" builders will undoubtedly be using OEM Subaru seat belts, its safe to say that a few of us, including all "R" builders will be installing a racing harness. This is not a debate about using a harness on the street, some will, many roadster owners do, its not uncommon. It may not be legal where you live, it has some disadvantages, and we could go on and on about it. This is about which harness to chose, and what options we have for mounting them.
b
I've been doing some reading, mostly reviews on which latches and adjusters people like. Obviously the more you spend, the better the reviews. I "think" that I'll prefer a camlock, and pull down adjusters. Not sure about 5pt vs 6pt. And most importantly I'm not sure about mounting. Now that my seat is in, I believe I need shoulder mounting locations at or below the square bar beneath the roll bar. Your shoulder mounts should be between 0 and 20 degrees (some manufactures say 10-30) from your shoulders and never above. Can we wrap around a square bar? If not, or if its not the right height, what are our options? Could we just weld "tabs" for bolt in connections off the square bar? Or weld a round bar parallel to it?

I'll include this pic for a reference.

[Rasmus]

Grassroots Motorsports just did an extensive article on harness locations and mounting. April 2014 issue. They even covered how to loop the webbing for the various straps though various mounting tabs. Only thing they didn't cover was arm restraints.


I purchased an old-school style Simpson lock 5-point harness. FFR's option. Mostly because I'm familiar with how the latching works. But more importantly I'm familiar with how the unlatching works.

Quick pull-down adjusters are nice.

[FFRSpec72]

This was a problem in the challenge car also and I had to weld new mounts into the roll cage, I will have to evaluate the 818 once I decide on the seat and seat mount I will use as this is something that FFR has not done well in the past

[JeromeS13]

The angle of your shoulder belts to the horizon will depend greatly on your seat, how it mounts, how far it is from the mounting point, how far it leans back, and how tall you are. With my Sparco Ergo (M) and in my seating position, my belts are at roughly 16 degrees from the horizon.

Also, if you're using a 5/6 point setup, USE A PROPERLY DESIGNED SEAT.

[Santiago]

I have camlocks in my Mustang - love them. You just buckle in (laps and sub need to be adjusted first, and once they're adjusted you leave them alone), pull down on the shoulders and go. Release is pretty much panic-proof. A 90 deg twist in either direction completely releases all the belts. You're instantly free. The only thing I've heard about camlocks is that you need to make sure they're not getting too dirty. I suspect this is a bigger problem for the dirt guys, but us asphalt guys are not seeing that much dirt in the air...unless you have a lot of offs...umm...yeah...

Anyway, once a season I blow them out with some air just to be safe and check to make sure the action is smooth.

Best,
-j

[wleehendrick]

While most "S" builders will undoubtedly be using OEM Subaru seat belts, its safe to say that a few of us, including all "R" builders will be installing a racing harness.

Thanks for bringing this up! I did not get my donor's seats, and I went with slotted fixed back buckets. Since 3-points wouldn't really work well with the side bolsters, my 'S' is getting 6 point cam lock harnesses.

I believe I need shoulder mounting locations at or below the square bar beneath the roll bar. Your shoulder mounts should be between 0 and 20 degrees (some manufactures say 10-30) from your shoulders and never above. Can we wrap around a square bar? If not, or if its not the right height, what are our options? Could we just weld "tabs" for bolt in connections off the square bar? Or weld a round bar parallel to it?

I'm in a similar situation, with my seat the way it is, the square bar is at the perfect height, and I'd appreciate mounting advice. My harnesses came with bolt in hardware, but the bolts are only long enough to go through thin tabs. With longer bolts, I could go through the square tube, or would welded tabs be better?

I'll include this pic for a reference.

Thanks, the Schroth website also has lots of great info: http://www.schroth.com/installation-...stallation.htm

[Canadian818]

I've been doing some thinking on how to mount my seat and harness and had an idea. The factory X bracing isn't much use, bolting through it isn't an option and neither are rivnuts. I had planned to weld in some angle to mount the seats, but I'd have to weld in even more for the harness mounts. So what about stich welding some 14 gauge steel over the whole area? I could use a few more bolts for the seats if needed, with larger washers or a full backing strip, still much stronger than most OEM. Then I could use eye bolts with backing plates to mount the harness and get snap connections. Any issues with this?

Thanks, Adam

[mrprgrmr]

Is this new? I hadn't noticed it before... http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/818-harness-bar-mount/

Anyhow, I thought it might be relevant to this discussion.

[Mechie3]

Its new. Just came out a week ago. I ordered one already.

[wleehendrick]

Is this new? I hadn't noticed it before... http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/818-harness-bar-mount/

Anyhow, I thought it might be relevant to this discussion.

Thanks for the info, but that would be too high for how my seats are mounted. I'm looking to attach directly to the square frame tube:



1206131135a.jpg

[Canadian818]

I'll be mounting mine this weekend, going with RCI 5 point cam-lock. I wanted to get a feel for the cam-locks, and the only ones I could find locally were Race-quip, G-Force, and RCI. Race-quip and G-force are almost identical, small tang or handle sticks out the bottom, flick either way to release. RCI you just grab the whole cam-lock and twist, which felt more solid to me and almost zero chance of accidental release. These are obviously amongst the cheaper cam-locks on the market, and until I've lived with them for awhile I don't really know what I want from a harness. Also, its hard to justify spending over double on some nice Scroth's with so many other things left to buy.

I believe we have the same seat wleehendrick, and I agree the FFR harness bar is too high. The link doesn't work, but I'm assuming its the same or similar to the green sema car. The harness needs to be at a downward angle from your shoulders, IMO no matter the seat or drivers height, the harness needs to mount to or below the square bar in order to be below the roll bar with a helmet. This car really should've been 2-4" taller and longer.

[tmoretta]

What kind of seats are those, and how are they mounted so low? From the pic., I would agree you can dead end harnesses on the FFR provided horizontal bar.

[FFRSpec72]

I use cam-locks in my challenge car, I use Ultra Shield 5 point cam-locks, remember that you will most likely need to wear a HANS and the harness you get needs to have shoulder straps that fit the HANS device. Also find a company that can re-web the harness you buy as it will be cheaper every 2 years when you have to replace

[wleehendrick]

What kind of seats are those, and how are they mounted so low? From the pic., I would agree you can dead end harnesses on the FFR provided horizontal bar.

They're NRG FRP-300, size large. I got them from Erik (33 Machine) here. I just used the sidemounts that came with them, but have them adjusted for some lean-back, so that drops the back; they are mounted low. I made slightly longer spacers to drop my steering column a bit as well. I'm very happy with the position of everything now.

[Canadian818]

They're NRG FRP-300, size large. I got them from Erik (33 Machine) here. I just used the sidemounts that came with them, but have them adjusted for some lean-back, so that drops the back; they are mounted low. I made slightly longer spacers to drop my steering column a bit as well. I'm very happy with the position of everything now.

I'm unable to use the bottom hole in the back, so it's middle hole out back and top hole in front. I might try trimming the bottom bracket so I can use the bottom hole and sink the seat into the triangle space under the seat. Every 1/4" counts! Using both middle holes gained about an inch of leg room, but it wasn't worth the sacrifice in height. As is, I'll be using the rear seat foam up front and none in the rear when I'm wearing my helmet to gain clearance. Even then I'll be about flush to the broom stick. Oh well.

As for the harness, it'll be used on the street, so no Hans for me. If I get into a regular track schedule then I will probably consider a second harness for the track. But at that point I'll probably get a FIA halo seat to go with it, oh and slicks! Not this year though.

Any thoughts on wrapping the harness around a square bar?

[wleehendrick]

I'm unable to use the bottom hole in the back, so it's middle hole out back and top hole in front.

Same here; I have longs legs/short torso, so this gets my head plenty low. I have a Boyd tank so I moved the firewall back for leg room.

As for the harness, it'll be used on the street, so no Hans for me. If I get into a regular track schedule then I will probably consider a second harness for the track. But at that point I'll probably get a FIA halo seat to go with it, oh and slicks! Not this year though.

My plan exactly.

Any thoughts on wrapping the harness around a square bar?

I'd like to know as well... Although my harnesses came with mounting hardware, the bolts are only long enough to go through mounting tabs. I'd like to just get longer bolts and go through the square bar, if this isn't a problem.

[Canadian818]

Shouldn't go through the bar without putting a spacer inside or welding in a sleeve. Should never bolt anything important through a hollow tube. I think a spacer could be fished in the tube, but you might need pics to convince a tech inspector.

[Scargo]

It's my belief that wrapping around the square bar will be legal. If they allow you to tie into one seat-belt bolt in the rear flooring then why would that be an issue?
I would disagree that the shoulder harness needs to be at a downward angle from your shoulders. As long as it is not above, you should have the ideal restraint angle. If it's too low it will push your shoulders down in a head-on. The lap belts keep you from going up, too. Just my opinion (worth two cents).

[wleehendrick]

Shouldn't go through the bar without putting a spacer inside or welding in a sleeve. Should never bolt anything important through a hollow tube. I think a spacer could be fished in the tube, but you might need pics to convince a tech inspector.

Yeah, I was hesitant on that approach. FFR does instruct to mount the seats with 3/8" bolts through the 1" floor tubes. I know you'd get less deflection on the 1" tube, but still... same approach, hence my question. I'd prefer to wrap if there's no issue with minimum bend radius.

[wleehendrick]

I would disagree that the shoulder harness needs to be at a downward angle from your shoulders. As long as it is not above, you should have the ideal restraint angle. If it's too low it will push your shoulders down in a head-on.

Pretty much all harness manufactures spec 0 to -20deg angle for the shoulder belts, so I'm fine there.

[wleehendrick]

One thing to consider with wrapping the shoulder harness around the square tube is that the diagonal plate for the OEM belts in in the way; you can see this in the photo underneath the crossbar in post #10. It appears that this diagonal piece is only there for the OEM belt mount, which I won't be using (the R frame does not have this piece). Therefore, it seams the preferred approach would be to remove this so it doesn't kink or abraid the harness when wrapped around the tube. Thoughts?

[Canadian818]

My plan was to cut it and add something different thinking that corner needed a gusset. But if the R doesn't have anything there, I'll just leave it bare.

[wleehendrick]

My plan was to cut it and add something different thinking that corner needed a gusset. But if the R doesn't have anything there, I'll just leave it bare.

Sounds like a plan. I looked over the R frame gallery to make sure. Seems OK to remove it since it's not on there:

[Canadian818]

If we wrap, we'll need a way to keep the harness from sliding on the bar. Typically roll bar foam is used, but that won't work for us, not without looking chunky.

[wleehendrick]

And also notch out the upper firewall. All in all, it's starting to sound ugly.

I'm thinking about using bolts through the tube, it shouldn't be to tough to insert a spacer, if this is an acceptable approach.

[Canadian818]

So I went ahead and cut the seat belt mount. It's actually for the wagon belts, and my donor was a sedan, so if I ever decide to use them I'm unaffected. Drivers seat is bolted down, wrapped the harness around the cross bar and it lines up good. I put the buckle on the bottom side to keep the belt from riding on the top edge of the harness slot. I don't know why the slots are so small.

[flynntuna]

I noticed in the catalogue FFR added a harness bar

[GUNS]

Where is everyone mounting the anti-sub belt on the S?

[07FIREBLADE]

Mounting mine to the x brace. Seemed the most logical for my setup. I'm only going to use that belt when it comes track time. Since in running the schroth profi-II ASM belts. They are dot legal and have ASM tech.

[Canadian818]

Where is everyone mounting the anti-sub belt on the S?

Pics in my build thread. I went slightly ahead of the X, my seat is quite laid back and the X was at the wrong angle.

[Mechie3]

What thickness steel is everyone using for the lower seatbelt mounting tabs? All I could find for FIA regulations were that reinforcement plates must be 3mm thick (referring to unibody underside reinforcement plates).

Good info here from Schroth.

http://www.ioportracing.com/instruct...structions.pdf

My FFR harness bar arrived a couple days ago. I did a little bit of modification to it. I'll post details later.