Details on New Factory Five 818C Coupe

[Kalstar]

Kalstar at your service. AKA...the mole.

[Mechie3]

I like the curve of it. Wonder how it looks with the trunk adding length to the rear. Someone should Photoshop it.

[shinn497]

MORE UPDATES TOMMOROW ?! W00T

I do hope that there will always be an option for a 818kg/10,000$ roadster doe.

Time to check on how much the 33 hard top compares.

[07FIREBLADE]

2k for the 33 top so if its anywhere around that or up to 3k, then Im fine. I can't wait for more details and any chance to get on a hot list I'm in.

[Flamshackle]

Kalstar at your service. AKA...the mole.

Hahaha... And the first person to have the 818c by the look of things!

Man this shape is spectacular and totally hits the HOF target FFR set.

Can't wait to see the other "developments" but this just looks sooooo good :-)
I will order mine later in the year once released. I honestly can't wait to build this car

[Vman7]

Just a quick mock-up. I would have to adjust everything to get the camera angles to match the side view picture of the 818.


818C mockup 1.JPG

[RM1SepEx]

I like the curve of it. Wonder how it looks with the trunk adding length to the rear. Someone should Photoshop it.

That shot includes the trunk area, you use the hatch access the engine

[imom]

Would it be possible to have a full cage so the coupe top is non removable? With the A, B, and C pillar all connected. I like this option to create more opening for getting in and out when entering and exiting the car. The bottom support beam blocking the door stands out a bit. With a full cage...I imagine all that can go away. Also if there's a full cage, perhaps it's possible to remove that chunk at the A pillar where the mirrors mount too... Would be nice if the mirrors were going to be mounted on the steel doors instead. That triangle piece really stands out distracting.

But overall the top looks very nice....sexy.

[longislandwrx]

just did quick 2 min chop at work with gimp. cant wait to do one tonight with more time.

818S with Roadster and 65 Daytona.jpg

[Stickshift84]

I am absolutely blown away and cannot wait to see this in person. I have wanted a coupe version since day one and I will definitely be ordering. May be better than I imagined and cannot wait to see it with the rest of the car.

Wondering how that intercooler ducting will integrate with the rear glass/hatch and if it will block rear view for the driver?

[CHOTIS BILL]

That is truly gorgeous. I have always been a fan of the double bubble roof design was this ever considered for the 818?

Bill Lomenick

[Kalstar]

Not to let the cat out of the bag but photoshoping this roof on is not going to give you an accurate depliction.

[Mechie3]

That shot includes the trunk area, you use the hatch access the engine

I should pay more attention while reading and look less at pictures.

[thall818]

I really like this design. I feel like the kid that gets the lego kit for Christmas. It's one of those kits that you can build different ways, and the kid just stares at the box trying to decide which way to build it.

I think it would look better with the rear quarter windows cut out and replaced with glass or louvers like on a Mustang. Or perhaps even scoops since they are meant to be functional.

I'll be very interested to see what they do with them on the prototype.

[Nuul]

I have wanted a coupe version since day one

I'm the same way. I'm still on the fence though about if I want one or not. I've been visiting Mechie3's house to watch his come together, I'm not sure I have the skill needed to build my own. I was hoping for a big lego kit but there's a lot more fab work than I was expecting. Still...after seeing that pic Dave posted it's tempting.

[TouchStone]

Very exciting! Been wait for the the hard top since I got the kit.

[AZPete]

Now my plan is to use the coupe top during the hot Arizona summer months, with my A/C, and use the soft top/no top during the nice winter months. I think I can suspend the coupe top from the garage ceiling for easy conversions. Maybe door poppers and maybe the door windows will work with the soft top. Probably should add defroster vents to my HVAC. Yippee, lots of plans and projects.

[BipDBo]

Looks great, but may I make a functional recommendation?

Don't use the roof scoop for intercooler air. Use this scoop for combustion air and the lower fender scoops for intercooler air.

First, the roof scoop is on a convex curve, so it will be a low pressure zone at speed, but air will ram into it. Secondly, when the car stops, the heat of the intercooler will cause the air to rise, and make it go backward, up through the roof. This will contribute to some degree of heat soak and take some thunder out of taking off when the light turns green. Subaru top mount intercoolers have had these problems a lot for these reasons, so many tuners have replaced their top mount intercoolers with front mount which breath upward, in the same direction as natural convection.
I propose that the intercooler intake be ducted from the rear fenders and then, if possible into the bottom of the intercooler, so that the air flows up, backwards through the intercooler and relieve upward into the engine bay. I think that there is enough clearance under the intercooler to mount a small plenum without modifying anything. With this bottom to top ducting, flow will be consistent. The roof scoop looks like a good size for combustion air. Air will be pulled from the engine bay through the bottom and rear which are low pressure areas.

I know that the 818 has been kind of plagued with airflow issues, specifically through the front mounted radiator. I've seen the various modifications made to FFR cars to try to solve this. The problem is not the intake but rather the outlet. The hood has a decent slope to it and the 818 hood vent is just a perforated panel. Because of that slope, that hood is likely more of an aerodynamic high pressure zone, which is normally a good thing, but in this case, it turns that perforated hood opening into a ram air intake. The hood opening fights with the front intake, and the front intake wins, but most of the air leaves sideways through the fenders. Much better airflow through the radiator might be achieved by replacing those perforated panels with sloped louver fins, the bigger the better. It would be best if the first fin protruded from the hood, and each additional fin was shorter, so that the trailing edges were level with each other. See my quick, crude drawing. This will create low pressure just over the opening, and draw air up, away from the radiator.
hood fins.JPG

[Dave Smith]

wind tunnel will tell all. I was going to post a bit more today but we were quite busy. More tomorrow.

[shinn497]

*dies*

(But take your time :3 :V)

[Speedy G]

I really don't like the roof scoop. I was hoping for something modifiable to a t-top so I could just take 2 pieces out for the convertible feel, and put them back in during rainy days. Also, with the current design the entire rear section would have to be replaced when switching from winter/rainy to summer/sunny weather.

Although the hood scoop might work to provide added airflow to the IC, I'm thinking they're going to have to do something so the airflow is properly directed to the underside of the intercooler (it's tilted backwards so it would be possible, but hard ). However, to do that you'd have to use large diameter flexible tubing so as to not be in the middle of the rear view mirror view. I'm really not sure how that's going to look or work, since tubing also reduces pressure. Just adding more air in the engine bay sure isn't going to reduce intake temps.

On the other hand, if you're going to replace the entire rear pannel, what would be cool is to have a summer top usable in the winter, also called a t-top. The IC airflow issue could be solved by mounting the IC facing sideways instead of up, maybe with larger side scoop like the one mechie3 is talking about in his cc scoop thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Scoops/page2

Other than that, from the side, the design looks great, pretty much like vman7's. From the rear though, the square glass looks 90's mercedes S class, a bit dated.

[Flamshackle]

wind tunnel will tell all. I was going to post a bit more today but we were quite busy. More tomorrow.

Can't wait! Tomorrow is also my last day in the USA.

Photoshopping these images onto the exisiting car won't tell the full tale.

One thing I noticed from visiting FFR is that after following the development of this car keenly for a number of years that pics just didn't do the 818 justice. Seeing it in the flesh was amazing and the hard top will be no different im sure.

As for the scoop, again in the flesh it looks awesome, serves an excellent purpose and trust me it is well functional and it won't just be dumbly poked into the engine bay but will be well directed to ensure the cooler gets the air it needs.

I am peaking to see this new couoe presented and see what the wind tunnel results will be.

Stunning work FFR!

[Flamshackle]

Looks great, but may I make a functional recommendation?

Don't use the roof scoop for intercooler air. Use this scoop for combustion air and the lower fender scoops for intercooler air.

First, the roof scoop is on a convex curve, so it will be a low pressure zone at speed, but air will ram into it. Secondly, when the car stops, the heat of the intercooler will cause the air to rise, and make it go backward, up through the roof. This will contribute to some degree of heat soak and take some thunder out of taking off when the light turns green. Subaru top mount intercoolers have had these problems a lot for these reasons, so many tuners have replaced their top mount intercoolers with front mount which breath upward, in the same direction as natural convection.
I propose that the intercooler intake be ducted from the rear fenders and then, if possible into the bottom of the intercooler, so that the air flows up, backwards through the intercooler and relieve upward into the engine bay. I think that there is enough clearance under the intercooler to mount a small plenum without modifying anything. With this bottom to top ducting, flow will be consistent. The roof scoop looks like a good size for combustion air. Air will be pulled from the engine bay through the bottom and rear which are low pressure areas.
hood fins.JPG

This is a super premature recommendation re the roof scoop...

Two things for me here. Firstly the wind tunnel will reveal the results of the dark magic that is fluid dynamics and prove what the scoop does or doesn't do. You really can never make a call just by a few pics on that. Second the "heat soaked when stopped" issue is a total moot point as when does this car get bogged down in traffic? Litterally 20 seconds of driving later it will be cool again anyway.

Most peope have derided Subaru for years for this design but that point has been driven by missunderstanding and undeveloped thinking rather than an actual bad design. I have exclusively owned and built Subarus for the last 16 years as well as developing and building my own top AND front mounted inter coolers for them. I can tell you emphatically that after MANY hours of personal testing with sensitive pressure testing equipment that the top mounted stock cooler is a solid design and a highly functional unit. If going for power (flow) gains then it immediately needs replacing. At stock boost levels however front mounted units actually decrease performance rather than create any real benefit.

Before the release of the hard top couoe I was going to go air/water, now I will simply install one of my own sheet metal designed hugh flow top mounts and ensure their is a good pressure differential between the top and bottom of the core.

Can't wait to see the wind tunnel measurement.

[longislandwrx]

Not to let the cat out of the bag but photoshoping this roof on is not going to give you an accurate depliction.

obviously... but who can wait that long.

[ClemsonS197]

Looks like a Cayman and an Elise had a love child.

[Kalstar]

Looks like a Cayman and an Elise had a love child.

I was thinking more like an Audi TT and a 2015 Mustang got it on. I would be very suprised if anyone flat out dislikes this set up. In my book it is a home run. I will say this, no one will mistake it for a Cayman....those are girl cars (yes Dave I went there.....again).

[David Hodgkins]

wind tunnel will tell all. I was going to post a bit more today but we were quite busy. More tomorrow.

Ahem... (Cough, cough)

[Flamshackle]

Looks like a Cayman and an EXIGE had a love child.

There I fixed it for you... Absolutely agree! I agree with Kalatar, After seeing it I think this new shape will put the 818 firmly in the "exotic and stunning" category for the vast majority of viewers.

Bring on my order!

[Mechie3]

I like roof scoops. The Exige S uses the roof scoop for the intercooler.

[bbjones121]

So do i cut up my chassis for vintage air box or not? Sounds like they will need to offer a/c and heater add-on.

[Sgt.Gator]

I cancelled my 818R a few months ago. This changes everything for me. I predict the coupe will become the real R or race version because of better high speed aero and better cooling for the intercooler. I hope the design includes provision to install a full cage with roof halo, front hoop, and all the regular cage requirements for racing. And I PRAY there is enough headroom once the cage is installed!!!!!!!!!

[mindinclouds]

Posted by Dave at the beginning of the thread...

The 818C hard top is designed to retro-fit to all current 818S models. It will not fit the 818R. The design includes the following features:

I cancelled my 818R a few months ago. This changes everything for me. I predict the coupe will become the real R or race version because of better high speed aero and better cooling for the intercooler. I hope the design includes provision to install a full cage with roof halo, front hoop, and all the regular cage requirements for racing. And I PRAY there is enough headroom once the cage is installed!!!!!!!!!

[Mechie3]

I think he wants to take an S and add his own roll cage to fit inside the 818C, not retrofit an 818R.

[longislandwrx]

He is saying more people may start building the coupes as dedicated race cars. A coupe fitting main hoop, and door friendly side impact protection wouldn't be hard to add to the S or modify on the R. Other than that the R is nothing more than a set of shocks/springs. I wouldn't be surprised if FFR offers a modified 818CR chassis in the future that combines both elements.

[Silvertop]

I really like this design. I feel like the kid that gets the lego kit for Christmas. It's one of those kits that you can build different ways, and the kid just stares at the box trying to decide which way to build it.

I think it would look better with the rear quarter windows cut out and replaced with glass or louvers like on a Mustang. Or perhaps even scoops since they are meant to be functional.

I'll be very interested to see what they do with them on the prototype.

Based on Dave Smith's description in Post #2 of this thread, the triangle shaped area on the hardtop is INTENDED for rear quarter glass. I'm betting the glass will be provided.

[FFRSpec72]

I cancelled my 818R a few months ago. This changes everything for me. I predict the coupe will become the real R or race version because of better high speed aero and better cooling for the intercooler. I hope the design includes provision to install a full cage with roof halo, front hoop, and all the regular cage requirements for racing. And I PRAY there is enough headroom once the cage is installed!!!!!!!!!

Not sure about this prediction as the Coupe has never taken over the Roadster for racing, the roadster is still the dominate racer, the Couple is also harder to fit in then the Roadster with the cage, getting in/out is a task

[Brando]

Just a quick mock-up. I would have to adjust everything to get the camera angles to match the side view picture of the 818.
818C mockup 1.JPG

Vman do you remember creating this hard top possibility back in 2012? (i think that was you)



Not far off man!

[Flamshackle]

Based on Dave Smith's description in Post #2 of this thread, the triangle shaped area on the hardtop is INTENDED for rear quarter glass. I'm betting the glass will be provided.

Dave did say that it would be glass.

Even if it wasn't (which it is) it would be a simple case of cut and fit. It's just fibreglass so it's easy to do.

[Dave Smith]

We are building the chassis for the 818C right now. As a way of answering your question about the cage, the hard top as it is right now will not fit the existing cage. Funny thing is that we had this conversation just a few days ago, lamenting the fact that we have to build a street car coupe first (there is more demand) and looking at the Coupe basics. Jim's heart is really into building a race version since the 818R is so damn fast and a coupe version will add so many plus factors. I am of the same mind. Still, street version takes priority based on demand. Still it would be so uncharacteristic for us to not follow the obvious evolution of the 818 Coupe to the track. It is a very capable platform.

Also, yes, the tooling is being made for glass quarter windows and rear hatch (included) to join the windshield and side windows.

[DodgyTim]

Dave
Great news a coupe top for the R may be in the future. Lots of the tarmac rallies in Australia now frown upon open top cars, something to do with trees????