2015 Coyote Advice Request

[edwardb]

Earlier this week, I took delivery on the Coyote engine and related for my new build. As described in another thread (Coyote Underhood Clearance) it’s the newest 2015/2016 Coyote. I haven't seen any other mentions about this on the forum, but it's coming for other new Coyote builds. The last couple days, I’ve been going through the provided instructions, the FF Coyote install instructions, and multiple forum searches. This is quite a learning experience! Because there are a number of changes with the new 2015/2016 Coyote engine and crate motor control pack, I’ve been trying to identify differences and potential changes that may result. I have several questions related to the control pack that I’ve discussed with Ford Racing and they’re going to get back to me. Meanwhile, today I went through the Factory Five installation instructions step-by-step on the engine side. The good news is nearly everything is accounted for. But I have three questions I’d like to run by those with Coyote experience on this forum.

1. One of the additions to the new Coyote is charge motion control valves (CMCV) to the intake manifold. These were used on some mod motors in the past with limited success I guess. One of the common mods was to delete them. Ford claims these are improved and have multiple benefits. The challenge for the install is this: There are two large vacuum actuators on the back of the intake for the CMCV. A vacuum line for these actuators runs under the intake runners and attaches to the cold air intake. I have the FF recommended Spectre parts to replace the stock Coyote intake. Looks like I’ll need to add a nipple to the Spectre angled piece. Recommendations for how to do this? I see from another forum post these are called CAI vent nipples and said available from JLT. But this one is a smaller size than the PCV ones. Other ideas? One might be to harvest the nipple from the stock intake and graft it on somehow. But not sure about that.

Tube in question where it attaches to the stock intake:



Need to connect to the Spectre intake:



2. The FF instructions say to attach the fuel regulator vacuum hose to a port on the rear of the intake manifold. My engine already has a hose attached to what I think is this fitting. The hose runs under the intake runners and is unattached out the front of the motor. I’ve looked at a number of 2015 Mustang engine pictures, and can see it’s connected to something but I can’t tell what. Doesn’t appear to be something that’s needed/used in this installation. Any reason I can’t just remove this tube completely and attach the fuel regulator vacuum to the now available port?

This is the tube in question, now hanging in space by the intake:



Here’s the back of the intake (with the aforementioned CMCV vacuum actuators and sensors) showing where the tube exits the intake manifold on the left, and takes a right angle under the runners to the front of the engine.



Closer look at the same area:



3. Finally, I’m pretty sure I will duplicate the stock PCV circuit. I’m planning to install the JLT catch can setup on the PS, and install a hose from the DS to the cold air intake. This would require a second nipple to be added to the Spectre piece. It occurs to me, do none of the already available aftermarket cold air intake setups not fit in the Roadster? A number are available, and at the very least would have to two missing nipples on the intake I seem to need. Comments?

Thanks in advance for reading this and any responses you may have. I’ll be putting a more detailed write-up about the engine in my build thread in the next couple days. My Moroso pan is due here tomorrow, and I’ll be installing that.

[2bking]

I can't help with the CMCV and it looks like the port I used for the pressure regulator isn't visible or isn't there in your pictures. Mine is a vertical plastic tube/port on the rear left end of the intake manifold. It's the same port that the FFR instructions show for attaching the pressure regulator vacuum hose. But the port comes blocked on the earlier engines and needed to be drilled out to get vacuum.

As for the PCV port in the intake, I made a part and installed it in the 4" curved Spectre tube. It turned out to be a simple fix and looks like it belongs. A few pictures are of the part and completed assembly.
2014-549d.jpg 2014-548d.jpg 2014-547d.jpg 2014-546d.jpg

[FBB1951]

I have another problem with the 2015 Coyote. I purchased a 2015 F150 engine from an IIHS test vehicle, test wrecked at 186 miles. I thought I had scored big time as the price was reasonable. The problem is the giant oil filter adapter and giant oil cooler hit my PS rack and just won't fit. There are two oil sensors on the filter adapter. An oil pressure sensor, and a variable oil pressure sensor. I talked to Ford Racing, and they thought that the variable sensor was NOT supported by the control pack, and could be eliminated. So I spent considerable money on a remote filter adapter (MOROSO) and a Canton remote filter base, and associated _10 AN hose and fittings. The Moroso adapter has a port for the oil pressure sensor so I was all set. I got another call from Ford Racing Tech. today. They informed me that contrary to their first advise, yes the variable oil sensor is supported by the 2015 control pack, and in fact is necessary for engine function. They said to their knowledge a variable oil sensor relocate kit is not yet supported by any aftermarket companies. They suggested that I just wait and see what is developed over the next few months. Not the solution I was hoping for.

Has anyone else bought a 2015 F150 engine, and have you worked out a solution to the variable oil sensor relocate problem? The variable oil sensor does not screw in. It is smooth sided, with an "O" ring and is secured by a bolt.

[edwardb]

I started this thread, and a similar one over on the other forum. There haven't been many responses in either forum. Seems there aren't many builds going on yet with the 2015 Coyote crate motor version I'm using. I'm guessing even less if any others with an F150 take-out. The 2015 crate motor comes with an oil cooler attached to the normal block oil filter location, as seen in the picture of my engine below. But there are no sensors or wires attached to it. The oil pressure sensor can be seen in the picture just behind the oil filter base. There is also an oil level sensor in the pan, not visible in this picture. I chose to remove the oil cooler (subject of some discussion on the other forum...) and once a standard adapter is installed, accepts an oil filter as normal. The lower profile oil filter now used by Ford, or one of several other similar filters from Mobil 1 and others, fits in this location and clears the frame rails just fine. So I'm not going to use a remote setup. Many others have done the same thing.

I'm curious about the "variable oil sensor" you mentioned. Is this different than the oil pressure sensor pictured here? Interestly, in FF's early Coyote instructions they showed installing a T fitting and using both the stock oil pressure sender and also the aftermarket one for the gauges, e.g. Speedhut. In the most recent FF Coyote instructions, they say to remove the stock oil pressure sender and replace with the aftermarket and leave the stock connector loose. I don't recall whether they specifically say the PCM doesn't use this signal, but apparently it doesn't or it wouldn't be OK to leave it disconnected. All instructions from FF to date, however, are for the 2011-2014 control pack. The 2015 version has an all new PCM, and Ford Racing told me it's an all new program and all new operating system. So I'm not going to assume anything. I was planning to go ahead and use both sensors, e.g. the stock one plus the aftermarket one. Similar discussion about the oil level sensor. Some say the old control pack didn't recognize it either, and it can be removed. But I'm going to leave it connected as well. I've talked to Ford Racing tech support a number of times myself, as recently as an email this morning. They have been helpful, but are still learning about this new setup themselves. I had an issue with the supplied O2 sensors, but as of yesterday that's resolved. I've got the engine mocked up in the chassis, but I'm many months away from first start.

Curious how any of this applies to your situation...

[FBB1951]

I talked to Ford Racing again today. They said that the oil filter adapter on the 2015 Mustang 5.0 engine has a dual purpose sensor. It provides the function of the two different oil sensors on the 2015 F150 5.0 engine in the single sensor. Looking at the picture of your engine above, that must be the sensor pictured. FRP was to email me the part number of the filter adapter and the sensor. Nothing, maybe they got my email wrong, can't call again before Monday. I can't find an email address for Ford Racing Tech. Could you post it, or message it to me?
I appreciate your help on this.

Brent

[edwardb]

Well, I'm officially a little confused I guess. I removed the sensor pictured previously that came with my M-6007-M50A Coyote crate motor. Found the part number on it, and it's a CM5Z-9278-A. Multiple cross references to that oil pressure sender for a 2015 Mustang GT 5.0 and also 2015 F150's. It's a relatively cheap $25-30 part. But some 2015 Coyote engines and 2015 Mustangs are showing a CR3Z-9D290-A pressure switch (as it's called) in the same location. It's a $250-300 part (!!) and I can't find anything quickly that explains the difference and why one is used versus the other. I looked at multiple parts lists and explosions, plus looked my engine over very carefully. There is only one oil pressure sender in the block and provided for in the wiring harness. I plan to use the one that came with my engine from the factory.

I have the work email for the specific tech at Ford Racing (Steve) that helped me solve the O2 sensor issue I had. He gave it to me to send him pictures so he could chase down the problem with engineering, and he responded with the solution and let me know they were shipping replacement parts. I don't have or am not aware of a general email for Ford Racing tech. I've only ever called them the rest of the time.

[FBB1951]

Steve at Ford Racing is the tech that's been helping me. On my 2015 F150 Coyote there are two oil sensors. A thread in sensor CM5A-9D290-AA and an "o" ring and bolt in sensor FT4E-6C880. They are both located in the oil filter adapter. I am as confused as ever and will call Steve again on Monday to get his email. He was to send me info on the adapter and sensor to replace the two sensors on my engine, but I have received nothing yet. I have a long email and it's generally best if I send an email first, and get a reply to my email.

[edwardb]

Maybe that makes sense. Looks like an 2015 F150 uses a FL3Z-6881-A adapter, and the 2015 Mustang a FR3Z-6881-G. It's a little hard to see, but looks like that's the part number on my engine. I don't claim to understand the nuances of the Ford part numbing system, but they apparently are different parts. The Mustang one is a $40-50 part, the F150 one 2-3 times that. Looks like the F150 one also has a different orientation for the filter. Can't tell from the outline drawings on the parts websites, but obviously based on your observation has an additional sensor port. Can you just change to the Mustang adapter and sensor? That's what they supply with the crate version, and I have to assume is compatible with the 2015 controls pack.

[FBB1951]

That's my hope to be able to change to the 6881 filter adapter and associated sensor. I will not be using the oil cooler as there just isn't room. If the 2015 controls pack is looking for that sensor, and I have room for the 6881 adapter to clear the PS rack, all will be good. I just need to establish an email path with Steve, so he can send me the info he has for me.

What data base are you using to search for the Ford parts? When I put these numbers into a Google search, nothing worthwhile comes up.

[donshapansky]

If you don't want make a hole in the Spectre elbow, K&N has a $20.00 fix called a crankcase filter, you need 5/8 inch version that comes with a hose clamp to attach to the stub sticking out of the valve cover. Here is a photo.
PCV Crankcase filter.JPG

[edwardb]

If you don't want make a hole in the Spectre elbow, K&N has a $20.00 fix called a crankcase filter, you need 5/8 inch version that comes with a hose clamp to attach to the stub sticking out of the valve cover. Here is a photo.
PCV Crankcase filter.JPG

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm told the tune is expecting the DS vent to go into the intake. Looks yours is done. Running OK? Actually I should have followed up on this. I have to put at least one hole in the Spectre elbow for the CMCV. At this time, I'm planning to go head with two. One for the crankcase vent and one for the CMCV. JLT performance sells a nice fitting that's made for these kinds of connections. In both the large and small sizes. They actually go into a grommet, so just a hole, the grommet, and the fitting. Should work out OK. I'm just waiting for radiator hoses as I want to get that all hooked up and then determine the routings for the hoses to the intake. It's all pretty congested in there.

[edwardb]

That's my hope to be able to change to the 6881 filter adapter and associated sensor. I will not be using the oil cooler as there just isn't room. If the 2015 controls pack is looking for that sensor, and I have room for the 6881 adapter to clear the PS rack, all will be good. I just need to establish an email path with Steve, so he can send me the info he has for me.

What data base are you using to search for the Ford parts? When I put these numbers into a Google search, nothing worthwhile comes up.

Sorry, just noticed your question. I go to one of the many Ford parts sites. I use Tasca Parts because that's where I typically buy stuff. http://www.tascaparts.com/ They seem to provide good service. Put in your vehicle info. Then you'll get a list of parts categories. Engine parts can be in several of the categories. Keep drilling and eventually you'll get to exploded views with all the parts and part numbers. Takes some searching to find the right category and specifically what you're looking for, but I've had pretty good luck with this.

Related, I just happened run across these notes regarding the 2015 control pack use on 2015 Coyote engines. FWIW.

"Designed to run the M-6007-M50A and M-6007-A50NAA 5.0L 4 Valve 435HP crate engine and salvage motors pulled out of 2015+ Mustang GT Manual Transmission Cars. Will also work on M-6007-A50SCA and salvage motors from 2015+ F150's with aftermarket custom software tuning and Mustang GT engine harness from a manual transmission car. The compression ratio of these motors is different and requires a custom tune to run properly."

[donshapansky]

My car runs no different than when I had the intake system Ford supplied for the SCJ intake. I don't think the engine can tell the difference in air restriction of the filter, since all I did is slightly increase the filter capacity by the size of the new K&N filter.

[FBB1951]

edwardb, Thanks for the F150 Coyote info. Things are slowly coming together between this site and the FTE Coyote threads. The variable oil sensor turned out to control oil flow through the oil cooler only. I am eliminating the oil cooler anyway.

Brent

[Oliver27]

Order part number AL3z-6890-a from Ford or on ebay. I believe that it's for a Mercury engine. It works beautifully.

[briankauf]

EdwardB, I am at about this point in the install. I am wondering what you ended up doing with the hose from point #2? The newish FFR instructions have us running an air hose from a barb near the throttle body back to the fuel pressure regulator. The hose you mention in #2 is still un-used, and no mention is made of it in the instructions. Wondering how you handled it, since your car is already running beautifully.

[edwardb]

EdwardB, I am at about this point in the install. I am wondering what you ended up doing with the hose from point #2? The newish FFR instructions have us running an air hose from a barb near the throttle body back to the fuel pressure regulator. The hose you mention in #2 is still un-used, and no mention is made of it in the instructions. Wondering how you handled it, since your car is already running beautifully.

I've confirmed the hose in point #2 is not used. I completely removed it. FYI, it goes from a manifold connection on the rear of the engine, through the intake to the front PS side of the engine. From there in a Mustang it attaches to a hose going over to the vacuum booster for the power brakes. It doesn't attach anywhere on the front of the engine. You're right. It's not mentioned in the latest FF Coyote instructions.

Also FYI, since the connection vacated by that hose was available and close, I used it for the vacuum source to the fuel regulator. I've heard from another forum member that he measured the vacuum on that connection at the back of the engine and it was marginal. He switched to the vacuum connection FF says to use on the front of the engine. Doesn't exactly make sense if that rear connection is supplying vacuum for the power brakes, but I'm going to measure mine when I get a chance. Will switch as well if it doesn't seem right.

[ckrueger]

I can't help with the CMCV and it looks like the port I used for the pressure regulator isn't visible or isn't there in your pictures. Mine is a vertical plastic tube/port on the rear left end of the intake manifold. It's the same port that the FFR instructions show for attaching the pressure regulator vacuum hose. But the port comes blocked on the earlier engines and needed to be drilled out to get vacuum.

As for the PCV port in the intake, I made a part and installed it in the 4" curved Spectre tube. It turned out to be a simple fix and looks like it belongs. A few pictures are of the part and completed assembly.
2014-549d.jpg 2014-548d.jpg 2014-547d.jpg 2014-546d.jpg

I used this piece from Mr 2bking and it worked perfectly!! Would highly recommend.

[briankauf]

I've confirmed the hose in point #2 is not used. I completely removed it. FYI, it goes from a manifold connection on the rear of the engine, through the intake to the front PS side of the engine. From there in a Mustang it attaches to a hose going over to the vacuum booster for the power brakes. It doesn't attach anywhere on the front of the engine. You're right. It's not mentioned in the latest FF Coyote instructions.

Also FYI, since the connection vacated by that hose was available and close, I used it for the vacuum source to the fuel regulator. I've heard from another forum member that he measured the vacuum on that connection at the back of the engine and it was marginal. He switched to the vacuum connection FF says to use on the front of the engine. Doesn't exactly make sense if that rear connection is supplying vacuum for the power brakes, but I'm going to measure mine when I get a chance. Will switch as well if it doesn't seem right.

Thank you, as always, you're a huge help!