Legendary Motorcars - Georgetown, Ontario Canada

[The Stig]

I saw a listing for the show Legendary Motorcars, about high-end classic, muscle, and exotic car sales... Sort of like Chasing classic cars, but more annoying.

This show had to do with Ford GT sales, and showed a couple of people who wanted to trade their cars to buy a couple of the GTs that were for sale.

One guy had a Factory Five Roadster (looked like an MK2 or 3) that he paid 50k for. Well the owner (Peter Klutt) seemed to go way out of his way to trash the guy's Factory Five Roadster.

I don't know whether he was simply trying to shake him down for the trade in value, or if he knew little about Factory Five cars, and didn't care to, or if he has some sort of tie to Superformance. He made sure to mention their name a couple of times... In my oppinion the Superformance is nothing but hype with a serial number.

He even went as far as to call the Factory Five Roadster "the bottom end of the scale for kit cars".

I have to say, it really made my stomach turn... I'm not sure if he's just ignorant or self-serving; or both.

Mike

[GoDadGo]

Wow, What A Slam!

For the record, I looked at Superformance, Backdraft, Lone Star Classics, ERA, Shell Valley & Unique Before Buying My Factory Five MK-4 Kit. While I didn't go to South Africa to visit those facilities I did travel to the others, but ironically didn't go to Factory Five after seeing the "Speedmakers / Ultimate Kits" on the Speed Channel way back in the day. My investigation lasted for nearly 5 years before I joined the Factory Five Fraternity and ordered my car.

While I Was A Fan Of Mr. Klutt's Show, I Am No No Longer!

[Real time recon]

Yeah I watched that also.Might be my last time

[lance corsi]

Well, what was everyone expecting? Everyone knows that a replica is just that! I wouldn't have gone quite as far as P Klut, but the suttle differences are what separates the real cars from posers. As far as I'm concerned, the replicas shouldn't be advertised as "'65 Cobras" either. I guess that's what I find appealing about the 818; it doesn't try to be anything but itsself.
As far as the resale value, I think he was right on. Most kits I've seen for sale seem to struggle just to recover the parts investment combined with the kit price. Mostly because of the average build quality. There are always going to be exceptions tho.

[David_Ingermann]

Kind of liked that show too. So, who else is thinking burnouts in their parking lot?

[The Stig]

Since I can't leave well enough alone, I decided to send an e-mail to their contact info address, to let him know that he had struck a chord with me.

*************************

To: [email protected]
Subject: I was a fan of your show until this weekend

Date: 03/23/2016

Good morning Peter,

I have been a recent “fan” of your “Legendary Motorcars” television show since it began a few weeks ago.

But when I saw the episode regarding the gentleman who wanted to trade his Factory Five Roadster for one of the Ford GTs that you had for sale, it turned my stomach.

When I sat there listening to you go out of your way to trash everything about this man’s car, it really made me angry that you would do so in such a way, on national television. To say that Factory Five Kits are at the bottom of the list in comparison to their competitors is simply nothing short of slanderous: to the owners who have built their cars, as well as to Dave Smith and the employees of Factory Five.

Dave has built a company that is dedicated to bringing a component based project build, to the public at a price point that allows them to build a car that can be used as a daily driver, that in many ways looks like, and actually drives and handles MUCH BETTER than the original Cobras of the ever so “Beloved” Carroll Shelby.

In any event, you made it sound as though your friend had either been ripped off, or that he was trying to pass a car off as an original Cobra. I don’t think that there are any FF builders who are under the impression that their car is an exact copy of the original Cobras, or that they will command the values of an original Cobra. So for you to go to such lengths to point out any subtle difference, on air, seemed excessive and a bit ridiculous.

The one thing that you did seem to get correct, was that component kits cars are a result of what the builder makes them. It’s up to them to determine the level of quality they which to achieve in the end result, since this is almost always a 1:1 relationship with the budget that they have to work with.

All you had to tell “your friend” was that you saw the value of his car to be in the 25 – 35k range and let him make his choice based on that number.

It came across as though you either have a relationship with Superformance, and/or that you really know very little about Factory Five Racing, and don’t really care to, or that you’re very self serving and or ignorant… Maybe all of the above; who knows?

I do know that you seem to have lost quite a few Factory Five viewers.

Enjoy your success Peter.

Sincerely,

Michael Baskin
Factory Five Racing – GTM owner and builder
Charlotte, NC
**********************

[GoDadGo]

Geeee Wizzz

To date how many Factory Five Cars have been built by Sir Dave Smith and his band of Merry Men & Women? My chassis number is 8,515. How many cars has Mr. Klutt built from scratch? How many unique, one off cars of his own design have come from his company.

Maybe Mr. Klutt is having a little Roadster Envy.

While it is true I've seen a few Over The Top Builds and those that were far less, they were all great in my mind because the average guy did it.

Just Saying!!!

Steve / aka GoDadGo

[WIS89]

Mike-

I missed that episode, but I will keep an eye out for it. It's a shame that he decided to go out of his way to beat up Factory Five.

One of the first things you learn in sales is that you never talk bad about your competitor, because it is an insult to the customer that bought from them. Clearly, the folks here didn't understand how insulting his comments were to the guy that just bought his Factory Five. It's a shame, and I am sure it made that guy feel pretty bad about his decision.

I am happy as heck with my decision. It will be a pretty cool ride when I finish, and in the meantime it is a blast to be building with my sons! I dare you to put a price tage on that!!

Regards,

Steve

[The Stig]

I am happy as heck with my decision. It will be a pretty cool ride when I finish, and in the meantime it is a blast to be building with my sons! I dare you to put a price tag on that!!

Regards,

Steve

I agree with you Steve. 100%.

Mike

[flynntuna]

I saw that episode too, I came away with a different impression, it seem that Mr. Klutt is a major car snob. He deals only in high dollar cars and with customers that can pay top dollar for those cars. He doesn't have the time or the desire to bother with cars that don't have a petigree, let alone that may have been built by the great unwashed.

So, that is the world we live in, high dollar cars for those who don't drive them for fear of depreciating them and the rest of us who build them to drive and enjoy them.

[GoDadGo]

Amen and I bet he'd really be upset with my project since it is way off base from the more traditional builds.

Our MK-4 will be a little different because it will be powered by a 383 CID Small Block Chevy with a ZF 6-Speed transmission.

1. 383 Small Block Chevy 9.7-1 Pump Gas Friendly Compression Ratio!
2. Eagle Internally Balanced Rotating Assembly With 6" H-Beam Rods With Floating Forged Flat Tops.
3. Dart Iron Eagle 215 CC Heads with 2.05 Intake & 1.60 Exhaust Valves.
4. Harland Sharp Roller Rockers & Other Go Fast Goodies.
5. Comp Cam Extreme Energy 284 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam
6. Edelbrock 800 AVS Carb Feeding A Weiand 7530 Team G Single Plane Manifold.
7. Schoenfeld IMCA Modified Headers & They Really, Really Fit, But Stuff Had To Move A Bit!
8. New Old Stock Corvette ZF 6-Speed Transmission With Hydraulic Clutch. (.75 5th & .50 6th Gear Over Drives)
9. Standard Front End Set Up With Mustang Brakes & Forte’s .75” Sway Bar.
10. Standard 3 Link Moser TSD 500 Rear With 3.73 Gears & Explorer Brakes.

While this is not the normal build, I know that the Factory Five Family are thrilled that soon another dream car will be coming to life.

Yes, This One Will Be Driven All The Time, Even To Work!

[edwardb]

I just happened to catch that segment as well. As a pretty avid Factory Five owner and builder, I didn't like it much either. But several observations from my side. (1) The guy is a car snob. I've always had that impression. They deal with very high end cars, high end restorations, original Cobras, etc. and clearly have customers with more money than they know what to do with. (2) He was doing the usual sales routine of talking down what the guy wanted to sell or trade. (3) He clearly is misinformed. Suggesting a Superformance is more authentic than a "restomod" Factory Five is just wrong. Check the frame and tell me which one is closer. (4) Each replica brand has their take on the body shape. Some closer to the originals than others for sure. The car on the show looked like an earlier Mk2 or Mk3. Hopefully he would agree the Mk4 is a little closer.

But maybe the bigger point, and I suspect even the most loyal customers would agree, is that Factory Five has really improved their product over the past 20 years. Some of the very early versions and all out donor builds are really nothing like the products most builders are turning out of their workshop today. But some still remember those days, and still apply it to today's product. I saw some of that in his comments. I've personally experienced exactly that opinion from several people over the past few years.

I'll be interested to see if he responds to the email.

[AC Bill]

The real unfortunate thing with his demeaning the FFR's on TV is, thousands of naive people who know nothing about the construction, and engineering of them, will now be thinking they are junk.

And this from a used car salesman, who'd never lie, as we all know..

[The Stig]

I just happened to catch that segment as well. As a pretty avid Factory Five owner and builder, I didn't like it much either. But several observations from my side. (1) The guy is a car snob. I've always had that impression. They deal with very high end cars, high end restorations, original Cobras, etc. and clearly have customers with more money than they know what to do with. (2) He was doing the usual sales routine of talking down what the guy wanted to sell or trade. (3) He clearly is misinformed. Suggesting a Superformance is more authentic than a "restomod" Factory Five is just wrong. Check the frame and tell me which one is closer. (4) Each replica brand has their take on the body shape. Some closer to the originals than others for sure. The car on the show looked like an earlier Mk2 or Mk3. Hopefully he would agree the Mk4 is a little closer.

But maybe the bigger point, and I suspect even the most loyal customers would agree, is that Factory Five has really improved their product over the past 20 years. Some of the very early versions and all out donor builds are really nothing like the products most builders are turning out of their workshop today. But some still remember those days, and still apply it to today's product. I saw some of that in his comments. I've personally experienced exactly that opinion from several people over the past few years.

I'll be interested to see if he responds to the email.

I think for me, it boiled down to the fact that people just seem to treat others with less and less respect. Car snob, absolutely. But more to the point, I've noticed that he positions himself to appear to be more knowledgeable and market aware than anyone else. I would think that to run a business such as his, you would certainly need to know as much as you can about the cars that you are marketing and selling.

His problem seems to be that he allows his ego to dictate his level of knowledge. And what I saw during that show, was a person who was more concerned with trying to equate facts from one scenario that had next to nothing to do with the other: And he did it with no regard or respect for other people or, (in this case), other businesses.

As a result, I lost what respect for him that I may have had previously.

For a long time, I've held the opinion that if you do not know what you're talking about, you should probably wait until you have more information and knowledge before you start running your mouth to the masses.





I know which car I'd rather have to drive...


By the way, I am eagerly awaiting each post to your 20th Anniversary MK4 build thread. Your work is impeccable, and I plan to use it as a guide when I am ready to build mine. Keep up the great work.

Mike

[Real time recon]

Don't think a "Replica" car is real ? Stand in front of it !

[GoDadGo]

What puzzles me the most is I worked in Canada for 3 years after Hurricane Katrina (2005-2008) and those folks were the nicest, best mannered, wouldn't say s--- if they stepped in it kind of folks. Are we sure that Mr. Klutt is living in the land of the Maple Leaf because he sure didn't act like the Canadians that I know.

Ayee!

PS: Explain It To Me Slowly Since I'm From The South!

[Gumball]

I know which car I'd rather have to drive...

Me too...

[The Stig]

What puzzles me the most is I worked in Canada for 3 years after Hurricane Katrina (2005-2008) and those folks were the nicest, best mannered, wouldn't say s--- if they stepped in it kind of folks. Are we sure that Mr. Klutt is living in the land of the Maple Leaf because he sure didn't act like the Canadians that I know.

Ayee!

PS: Explain It To Me Slowly Since I'm From The South!

There are always those people that work way too hard to be noticed...

Mike

[edwardb]

By the way, I am eagerly awaiting each post to your 20th Anniversary MK4 build thread. Your work is impeccable, and I plan to use it as a guide when I am ready to build mine. Keep up the great work. Mike

Thanks for the props. Working on another update at this moment.

[WIS89]

What puzzles me the most is I worked in Canada for 3 years after Hurricane Katrina (2005-2008) and those folks were the nicest, best mannered, wouldn't say s--- if they stepped in it kind of folks. Are we sure that Mr. Klutt is living in the land of the Maple Leaf because he sure didn't act like the Canadians that I know.

Ayee!

PS: Explain It To Me Slowly Since I'm From The South!

Steve-

I think you are right on here! I have worked closely with a large number of people across Canada, and without exception they were some of the nicest people I have ever met. His attitude is contrary to my observations. It's a real shame.

Regards,

Steve

[MikeJones]

I happen to live fairly close to Georgetown. Those who can, do - those who can't, make up stupid things to say and think they are better than everyone else. General consensus around here is not to waste much time on PK. Anyone can buy and sell cars - doesnt mean you want to hang out with them

My 0.02,


Regards, Mike

and sorry about that

[wallace18]

I saw the show and was upset about what he said also. But he deals in mostly the real thing and was judging the car vs the real thing. Also the FFR car in the show was not really a close replica of the real thing. Many mods. I agree that it would leave a bad taste in the mouth of someone that knows little to nothing about kit cars. Based on what I see him looking at high end cars I doubt he would ever be at Carlisle, LOL. Bet he never saw the FFR vs real 427 Cobra video either.

[Gumball]

Not sure if anyone else has the DVD, but back in '09 when I was looking at replicas, I visited a local Superformance dealer before buying my FFR kit. While there, he gave me a DVD put out by Superformance that was a collection of all the episodes from 2004 through ? where the original "Dream Car Garage" show hosted by Peter Klutt featured Superformance products. So, it's not surprising that he's still singing their praises these days.

Also, I have to admit that Tom Hnatiw was the real star of that show, as far as I'm concerned, and it was typical for Peter to be less than complimentary to him.

So, in Tom's memory and in regard to my FFR, all I can say is - "Do you need a car like this... well, nobody NEEDS a car like this. But, do you want a car like this - yes, oh yes, with every fiber in my body, I want a car like this." RIP and Godspeed, Mr. Hnatiw.

[GSides9]

Just like the rest of you, I was unhappy with Peter on that show. He pointed out the differences between the original and the FFR Roadster, and made a few unnecessary comments. He never sat in the seat to feel how much more room is in the FFR car. He pointed out that the engine is farther back in the FFR, but didn't drive it to see if that made it handle better. I don't think it mattered to him if it had a junk yard 302 in it or a top shelf brand new stroker with Webers. His mind was made up. (money wise)

We are building our Type 65 Coupe as a street driven race car, everyone that sits in it says "this is a race car". That is what I want, just enough to make it semi-comfortable. I can not think of a better reason to recycle a Mustang than to build it into a FFR car. Wasn't that the goal when FFR began? I am sure that compromises were made to accomplish that. How many were improvements?

Glen

[GoDadGo]

1. The pride that we all have because we are building our own cars, thanks to FFR, is something that I suspect that Mr. Klutt's customers likely never know.
2. While it is true that many of us have taken a lot of liberties with our builds, it is also true that we are all Hot Rodders more so than Car Collectors.
3. It is a shame that Mr. Klutt had to spew such negativity towards Factory Five, conversely look at how Dave Smith handled the passing of Carroll Shelby, even though Shelby had been attacking him via the legal system for years.
4. Bravo Mr. Smith For Setting A Good Example For Your Minions Of Which I Am Proud To Now Be!

[cobrajj]

I watched the episode today and I believe Peter said he had never driven a Factory Five roadster, so he couldn't comment on how they handle or perform? Seems to be mostly about the body shape differences.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've never seen any of his shows but know who Peter Klutt is...in the end he's a used car salesman and like all of them what he has to say about ANY vehicle will be dependant upon whether he's negotiating to buy/trade for it or sell it. If he'd been trying to sell the FFR I bet his comments would have been completely different.

Jeff

[JL1958]

I have always liked watching PK on the shows, but I sat here open mouthed as he trashed Factory Five.
I was surprised to hear him say FF5 was the "bottom" of the kit cars. I have always heard FFR was the top which is why I bought one.
Bottom line - I care as little about Mr Klute's opinion of my beloved Scarlet, as the people who turn up their nose when they see it's not a "real" Cobra.
Car snobs.

[JL1958]

I emailed them as well.

[WIS89]

...in the end he's a used car salesman and like all of them what he has to say about ANY vehicle will be dependant upon whether he's negotiating to buy/trade for it or sell it. If he'd been trying to sell the FFR I bet his comments would have been completely different.

Jeff

Yes, this!! Add in a dash of ignorance and a pinch of arrogance, and I think we have a winning recipe!

Regards,

Steve

[GoDadGo]

1. Unless you've got a bucket of money to buy a Kirkham, then Factory Five is the next logical choice.
2. Now, add in the fact that you have so many suspension options and engine choices makes Factory Five becomes the only choice.
3. From 1995 thru 2016 the improvement year over year of the Factory Five products has been insane, more like totally off the hook.
4. I keep hearing Dave Smith in my head saying, along with the other voices, that they all leave the factory the same way, but they never return home that way.
5. What I love about Factory Five is you make it as great, goofy, gaudy or as gnarly as you want and it is A-Okay with the Factory Five Family.
6. No other kit manufacturer has this following nor sense of community so remember that the next time a group of you get together.
7. Do the LMC customers leave Mr. Klutt feeling the same way?

[mohara]

I live very close to their shop - they're actually in Milton, not Georgetown and I've visited a few times to see what they have in their showroom.

They have some really cool cars and to top if off - the last time I was up they had 2 original cobras and a Factory Five. The originals were priced at $300k and $500k if memory serves me right and the Factory Five was around $50k, so anyone with half a brain who is not just a navel-gazing fantasizer but is genuinely interested in owning one of these cars can see there is a choice to be made between the $300+k original version or a hand-built custom replica costing a mere fraction.

Of course, the ignorant snob will scoff at a $50k Factory Five or even a $150k Superformance version saying "it's only a kit car" and "it's not the real thing" but to trash the car and the brand on TV makes Peter Klutt no different than a cheap used car salesman lowballing the trade-in. Very sad that he has such an opinion of the Factory Five even though he's never actually driven one !!

Maybe I should drive up there and invite him to take a cruise with me ? Oops, forgot, this would be beneath him !

[GoDadGo]

Hey Gang,

There's a show on called Deadliest Catch.
It's about Crab fishing and it is on the Discovery Channel, opposite of that show we all once watched.
The folks on this show aren't trashing Factory Five Racing!

GoDadGo Likes Da Crabs At Da Casino's