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Thread: Texas Saga

  1. #1

    Texas Saga

    So to summarize. The local County Tax office did not know the difference between an assembled vehicle and a custom built replica. You can see the difference by reading the paragraphs in the reference cited below.You don't have to have all the forms cited in the reference, especially the police department sign off. The DMV officials that issue the VIN can just assign the serial number of your car as a VIN. My local County Tax office was confused about the restriction on antique plates versus the use of the replica hot rod or custom built registration. They felt the restrictions would be the same though they clearly are not. I applied for the classic car registration based on their guidance. I have to have the car inspected annually for the DPS safety inspection. I am still not clear what happens when you get to the DMV for the VIN if the LEO has not signed off on the proper form but apparently you can make them let you use the serial number. from the car. The problem is I have wound up with a car that is not 25 years old but is licensed as a 25 year old car. Had I done it the way described below I would h ave a replica of a car built over 25 years ago that I would not have to have inspected annually, yet I would not have any restrictions as I would have had with the Antique tags. Is that accurate?
    Last edited by wrp; 11-13-2016 at 02:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrp View Post
    ....The process was somewhat laborious...
    I am sure I left out some things...
    Well, congratulations on getting the car street legal, but for the benefit of others, I must point out that rather than leave anything off, you did a few extra / superfluous steps. Sure the process would be laborious if you insist on doing extra labor!

    1) A police inspection is only required if you don't have receipts for all the major stuff. I didn't need one.
    2) Texas does in fact use the FFR serial number as the VIN, if you ask them to. So no need to apply for a state issued VIN.
    3) Going along with the above, there is no need for a separate VIN plate because FFR stamps the serial number (your VIN) right on the frame.
    4) If you opt for Custom Vehicle plates, there is no need for the separate annual registration inspection.

    All this has been extensively documented on both forums. I did (or didn't) do the 4 things above and got my plates with no problems, and I really wouldn't have described the process as laborious.
    Last edited by ram_g; 11-01-2016 at 09:24 PM.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  3. #3
    Some places in TX require conformance to the emissions rules. Did you need to have the car checked for emissions?

  4. #4
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnhipPopano View Post
    Some places in TX require conformance to the emissions rules. Did you need to have the car checked for emissions?
    If you apply for the Street Rod / Custom Vehicle plates under the SEMA model legislation Texas passed a few years ago, you don't need to have your car emissions checked, ever, even if you live in an EPA non-attainment county (i.e. a county that checks auto emissions). To qualify for these plates, the car must be at least 25 years old or replicate a car that is at least 25 years old.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  5. #5
    ...........
    Last edited by wrp; 11-02-2016 at 07:16 AM.

  6. #6
    What is the argument for classifying an 818 as a Street Rod / Custom Vehicle?

  7. #7
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Wrp,

    I wish you wouldn't have deleted your posts. I saw your response first thing this morning but didn't have the time to respond. Please don't feel bad - my initial response was not intended as a slight and I do apologize if it came across as such. Having been involved in all the letter writing and such that helped to get the Texas SEMA legislation across the line, I feel passionate about it and it burns me up that there is so much misinformation about it amongst people who should know better - the county clerks, the inspection stations, and yes the police.

    For anyone that is searching on this topic or just happens to read this, please be aware of the following points:

    1) By far the easiest way to get a '33, Coupe, or Roadster street legal in Texas is to follow the process to obtain Street Rod / Custom Vehicle plates. There is no difference between Street Rod and Custom Vehicle except that originals and replicas of model year 1948 and earlier are called Street Rods and originals and replicas later than 1948 but older than 25 years from the present date are called Custom Vehicles. You need to follow Chapter 4.3 of this document:

    http://www.txdmv.gov/txdmv-forms/doc...vehicle-manual

    2) DO NOT ASSUME THAT ANY "OFFICIAL" KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE PROCESS THAN YOU DO...assuming of course that you've done your homework. These cars are so rare that county clerks, etc. more often than not give you wrong information when you ask. But when pointed to the right sections of the manual they will comply with it and likely tell you that they've learned something in the process.

    3) There are NO USAGE RESTRICTIONS on Street Rod / Custom Vehicle plates. If someone tells you that there are, they are thinking about "Antique Vehicle" plates which is a whole different deal. Read point #2 above. Of course there may be restrictions on the basis of the insurance policy that you get, but that's between you and your agent and not related in any way to your plates.

    4) After you get the initial ASE inspection, Street Rod / Custom Vehicle cars need never to be inspected again.

    5) You do not need to apply for a Texas state issued VIN, the serial number issued by FFR works fine for this purpose.

    6) Finally, 818s and GTMs technically do not qualify for these plates (need to replicate cars at least 25 years old). I have heard of folks who who've made the case that these are replicas, but I don't know much about that.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnhipPopano View Post
    What is the argument for classifying an 818 as a Street Rod / Custom Vehicle?
    There isn't any, AFAIK. OP was referring to a '33. See point #6 in my post above.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  9. #9
    I didn't take it as a slight, I do not however want to publish misleading or erroneous information that may confuse others. Lord help us if something erroneous got out on the internet. That being said appreciate your work and comments. I asked the mods to delete the thread but I guess they haven't gotten around to it. I do notice in your referenced paragraphs of the manual that the VTR-64A and VTR-68N are (required?) do you just go in and tell the DMV people what to put in the 68N or do you just fill it out y9ourself and skip that step given you are using the serial number of the kit? Does the 68N need a sign off? How about the 64A?
    Last edited by wrp; 11-02-2016 at 12:43 PM.

  10. #10
    ram_g,

    Just want to make sure I'm crystal clear on what you're saying, as I'm in Texas as well. So under that SEMA legislation, I can register the roadster under the customer vehicle classification and it would be totally street legal no matter what engine is in it or what I've done to it? And even though it is technically not really older than 25 y/o? And the state cannot hold me accountable as I will never have to get an inspection again after it is registered?

    Almost sounds too good to be true... not that I'm doubting you, but just sayin'.

  11. #11
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper24 View Post
    ram_g,

    Just want to make sure I'm crystal clear on what you're saying, as I'm in Texas as well. So under that SEMA legislation, I can register the roadster under the customer vehicle classification and it would be totally street legal no matter what engine is in it or what I've done to it? And even though it is technically not really older than 25 y/o? And the state cannot hold me accountable as I will never have to get an inspection again after it is registered?
    Yup, pretty much, per the current law in Texas. As for the future, they're politicians. I suppose they could pass a law that outlaws all replicas except those painted red and blue. I'm not making any predictions on future legislation changes that may or may not happen.

    Now you do have to get it inspected one time by an ASE Certified Master Mechanic, in order to qualify for the special designation. There is a form - VTR 852 IIRC - that has a checklist of what the tech is supposed to look at. Emissions is not on the list. (But windshield wipers are, which is a bit of pain.) For me the biggest hassle was finding a genuine ASE Master Tech to do the inspection (you need to submit their up-to-date certification along with the form, so you need to make sure they're really a Master Tech and will give you a copy of their certification). And if you sell the car the designation does not go with the car, so the new owner needs to go through the process again if he doesn't want to do annual inspections. But all of these are first world problems, so to speak, relative to the benefit.

    Almost sounds too good to be true... not that I'm doubting you, but just sayin'.
    Well, read that chapter 4.3 that I posted the link to post #7. And then if you really want some light bed time reading, go here (full text of Texas Transportation Code):

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=TN

    Now look at Section 504.501 (f) (1) (A) (ii) <-- This states that a "Custom Vehicle" can be a replica, not necessarily the real thing

    And then go to Section 548.052 (2) <-- States that a vehicle with Custom Vehicle plates is not subject to annual inspection

    No, I'm not a lawyer. But as stated before I'm passionate about this because I wrote every one of the legislators in Texas lobbying for this back in 2011 IIRC (and so did hundreds of others - organized by SEMA, so by no means am I taking credit).
    Last edited by ram_g; 11-02-2016 at 08:02 PM.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  12. #12
    Great info, thanks ram_g!

  13. #13
    Thanks for the info, I am coming up to register in Tx for my MK4 soon.

  14. #14
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrp View Post
    I do notice in your referenced paragraphs of the manual that the VTR-64A and VTR-68N are (required?) do you just go in and tell the DMV people what to put in the 68N or do you just fill it out y9ourself and skip that step given you are using the serial number of the kit? Does the 68N need a sign off? How about the 64A?
    I think you're referring to 68-A and 68-N, not 64-A? In any case neither of the 68 forms are required - these are only if you're requesting a state-assigned VIN. If you skip this and use the FFR number, show them a picture of where it's stamped on the frame and they're fine with using that as the VIN.

    If you are referring to VTR 64, note that 852 is used instead for the Custom Vehicle plates. Either 64 or 852 need to be signed by the ASE tech (it's one or the other, not both).
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrp View Post
    I asked the mods to delete the thread but I guess they haven't gotten around to it
    Well I hope they don't, because there's good information here that would help folks. Yes the same information is elsewhere also, but the more threads there are like this the more the information gets disseminated.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  16. #16
    ram_g

    First of all, I can't thank you enough for this info! You've done a wonderful thing.

    I do have a couple of quick questions, though...

    I am fixing to start the registration process here, in San Antonio TX. My problem is that my '33 hot rod (#490) was produced before FFR started stamping the serial number on the frame. Any ideas on how this will affect the registration process? Should I consider stamping it on the frame myself? If so, where? As a note, I do have the stamped metal tag from FFR with my Certificate of Origin.

    Also, just to verify, since I have a crate engine I do not have a serial/VIN # for the motor. All I have is the invoice from Summit with the part #. Will this suffice as the motor identification?

    Thanks for all of your help!!!

  17. #17
    Senior Member ram_g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77233349975 View Post
    My problem is that my '33 hot rod (#490) was produced before FFR started stamping the serial number on the frame. Any ideas on how this will affect the registration process? Should I consider stamping it on the frame myself? If so, where? As a note, I do have the stamped metal tag from FFR with my Certificate of Origin.
    Just rivet your metal tag to something where it looks like it belongs (firewall??) and take a picture of that. You'll be fine.

    Also, just to verify, since I have a crate engine I do not have a serial/VIN # for the motor. All I have is the invoice from Summit with the part #. Will this suffice as the motor identification?
    Honestly, less sure about this, because they do ask for the motor serial number. Are you sure yours does not have one? Is it a Ford Racing product? Because mine is a Ford Racing motor from Forte and although there was no reference to this in his invoice, it did have a metal plate glued to the block (just above the oil pan on one side) with some sort of serial number on it. I took a photo of that and they didn't look at it twice. My experience has been that they don't really check the accuracy or authenticity of what you submit to them, they just check that all the required items are there (in other words that you've ticked all the boxes that needed to be ticked) and unfortunately AFAIK motor serial number seems to be one of those boxes. You could certainly take a run at it with the invoice and hope for the best, but you may encounter pushback.
    FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.

  18. #18
    #377 has it's # stamped on the frame above where the steering column goes through the firewall.

  19. #19
    Thanks again for the info. ram-g and sheephearder. Called ford racing and the serial number on a coyote is ,driver side under the coil cover . Its on a small silver sticker ! Cant find the frame number so will rivet that metal plate some place that looks good and hope for the best. THANKS GUYS!!!!!!

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheephearder View Post
    #377 has it's # stamped on the frame above where the steering column goes through the firewall.
    So does 33HR #431, I would bet that #490 has it stamped as well IF that is his correct #.
    Dale Berry
    #431 7.0Liter 6 pack Hemi

  23. #23

  24. #24
    Well today I spent a few hours at the our local registration office and after one snafu, the ASE Mechanic used "assembled vehicle form" instead of "custom vehicle or street rod application". A new form corrected the issue of getting a permanent plate without yearly inspections. I have my temporary plate and windshield sticker! Make sure when doing your ASE inspection you use the right form and follow all the steps, pictures, weight, all the invoices, insurance and it can be done! I went to a Kwik Kar Lube in Arlington, TX and the guys were very helpful. There is no tax assessed on this type of vehicle, the next buyer will pay because it is a vehicle at that point. I thought I would owe a couple grand so that was a nice surprise.
    Now I got to get the door glass issues resolved and I ready to go cruising.

  25. #25
    Senior Member 2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donshapansky View Post
    There is no tax assessed on this type of vehicle, the next buyer will pay because it is a vehicle at that point. I thought I would owe a couple grand so that was a nice surprise.....
    I think you got lucky. Tax was assessed on mine based on the FFR invoice.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  26. #26
    You guys are lucky to get titles. I paid cash for a car in Arkansas, they gave me the blue title, I went to Texas dmv and applied for a texas title, and was denied because the vin was being used on a title in New Mexico that was newer than the title I had. I am having to sue the New Mexico DMV to get info on that title and car. Meantime, I can't drive, register, or even insure the car I bought TWO ?YEARS AGO.
    Nothing goes the way it should. NOTHING.

  27. #27
    The tax opinion was given by calling the head office in Austin, I supplied a summary broken down into items bought in Texas and items supplied outside of Texas with invoice copies to back it up. The answer was that it was simply a purchase of components like any other person may do but that it would not be assessed until I sold the car. My total outlay was $99.50.

  28. #28
    ^ what he said. The opinion in Collin County was that the Invoice showed taxes had been paid

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