MkV Rumor Mill

[cnutting]

IMO, the next business move for FFR that would make since is to expand and create a production/assembly group to sell turn key products and take advantage of the recent law changes for small manufactures. This would expand the customer base by a large margin and compete with Superformance and backdraft, taking some of their existing market share. Also, a state of the art inventory management system with bar code scanning and production operations management reporting would really help customer service for the kit side of the business.

What he said.

Bonus points for a metal roadster body, but that's some serious bucks in tooling.

[mikeinatlanta]

This doesn't seem like a very inviting atmosphere... The gist I am getting here is this is how it has been done forever and if you are looking for progress please leave. Just my observation. I suppose some people are just stuck in the past. Some people are open to engineering and progress.

Q4 could you elaborate a bit. I am a bit confused on which chassis you are talking about. When you say new design.. do you mean new coupe or new roadster? Thanks

The potential for adding newer technology is limitless on this car, and if anyone would have noticed negativity for unconventional thinking it would be me, and I haven't experienced a single bit.

IF you are wanting to get the seat lower by cutting the 4" tube, and IF you want a more rigid chassis, and IF you want the car to have a reasonable amount of safety with pushing limits, then you will need a full cage and the 4" tube becomes structurally irrelevant anyway.

I would say the real question is whether you want to have a roadster with a full cage. If not, you need to be looking at a coupe. If so, cutting a section of the 4" tube means almost nothing.

DSC00473-709x402.jpg

[CraigS]

RaceMatt see this thread for cad designed chassis stiffening by one of the most respected FFR builders ever.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ht=dave+borden

[MPTech]

.... because it is now more "Period Correct Looking" since the arrival of the new independent rear suspension.

GoDadGo, I respect your opinion (and you even admit to running a Chevy ) but what does this mean? the new IRS is more period-correct than the old one???

[SkiRideDrive]

The potential for adding newer technology is limitless on this car, and if anyone would have noticed negativity for unconventional thinking it would be me, and I haven't experienced a single bit.

IF you are wanting to get the seat lower by cutting the 4" tube, and IF you want a more rigid chassis, and IF you want the car to have a reasonable amount of safety with pushing limits, then you will need a full cage and the 4" tube becomes structurally irrelevant anyway.

I would say the real question is whether you want to have a roadster with a full cage. If not, you need to be looking at a coupe. If so, cutting a section of the 4" tube means almost nothing.

DSC00473-709x402.jpg

A roadster with a full cage would be pretty cool. I think the ideal setup would be a roadster with a triangulated chassis (similar to the new coupe chassis) and having a full size roll bar (like the challenge car) but having the hoop supports running rearward rather than forward like the challenge car so that you could drive it on the street without a helmet. I also would prefer full door bars for impact protection. I don't mind stepping over the door, these cars are super low anyway. I realize I don't represent every buyer though. But that is what this potential customer would really like. The coupe has definitely rejuvenated my interest in getting a FF car.

If I was doing a full track car I would probably just go with something like a radical, as it is designed for that purpose from the start.

[AC Bill]

My opinion is, without the round tube frame, the FFR would become just another Cobra replica.

That retro aspect, is one of the big selling points I feel. Might be because I'm older, and familiar with the originals. A younger aged buyer might not appreciate that original aspect as much.

[GoDadGo]

GoDadGo, I respect your opinion (and you even admit to running a Chevy ) but what does this mean? the new IRS is more period-correct than the old one???

The first Factory Five that I got a chance to really look at had the earlier IRS version. It appeard a tad light in the loafers, especially the half shafts, and it didn't look like it was as beefy as the rest of the car.

When I ordered my car and inquired about that setup and Dan Golub suggested that I strongly consider going with the 3 Link Sold Axle because he felt like my Mighty Mouse would shred that IRS at the CV joints.

A friend of mine just completed a 396-FE Ford powered MK-4 (Hottrodder427) and the new IRS appears to be a lot more substantial than the earlier version. The fact that the car has sway bars on both ends is a big plus too.

[SkiRideDrive]

My opinion is, without the round tube frame, the FFR would become just another Cobra replica.

That retro aspect, is one of the big selling points I feel. Might be because I'm older, and familiar with the originals. A younger aged buyer might not appreciate that original aspect as much.

If you don't mind me asking, this isn't the first time someone mentioned another replica that is less retro. Does this mean there is another kit out there with a triangulated tube frame chassis like the new coupe? If so I haven't been able to find it. I have checked some of the other brands mentioned, and they all seem to be flat ladder type frames, which are basically noodles in torsion and don't offer the safety of a better designed chassis.

[RaceMattC]

+1 on the lack of other choices. All other kits I've found are either complete piles of crap or stunningly expensive. So expensive, that I could design my own and have the tubes bent and cut for less. The only thing that makes me nervous about this route is getting the bodywork pickup points correct. That and the cost of all the bodywork is almost in line with a base kit, so I might as well go with the base kit.

Basically these cars have it all for me. There is no other car out there that is a V8, "mass" manufactured design with a wide support base with the classic look. I am not looking to erase the roadster history, more just build on it and put a modern touch in. Think what the Caterham R500 did for the original Super 7. Something along those lines. Case and point, I really want to run the new mustang IRS, but have the classic look of the fat rubber sidewalls. Right now I'm not sure it's possible without extensive modification of the upright, but that isn't out of the question. I'll go out of my way to preserve the history of these cars while having modern tech.

Thnks for the pointers to the build thread. I'll have to go through those to see what has been done.

[mikeinatlanta]

If you don't mind me asking, this isn't the first time someone mentioned another replica that is less retro. Does this mean there is another kit out there with a triangulated tube frame chassis like the new coupe? If so I haven't been able to find it. I have checked some of the other brands mentioned, and they all seem to be flat ladder type frames, which are basically noodles in torsion and don't offer the safety of a better designed chassis.

There used to be one called the JBL with a semi-monocoque but I don't believe they are still around. You are not hearing anything because it essentially doesn't exist. If you want an open roadster and you want rigid, you are going to need a cage. As you stated, with a cage you need a helmet. As a result, you are asking for something inherently in conflict with itself within the constraints of the body design.

As far as the idea of support tubes going aft instead of fwd. What you are suggesting is building a structure that has absolutely nothing to stop anything coming over the hood (like a median cable or section of fence) and taking your head off. The challenge car hoop does have minimal protection for this, but even its minimalist design precludes functioning doors. SCCA rules requires support tubes aft and forward (loose interpretation).

[Jeff Kleiner]

There used to be one called the JBL with a semi-monocoque but I don't believe they are still around...

Correct on both counts Mike; JBL was semi-monocoque but is no longer being produced:



The body strayed pretty far from the shape of originals:



Jeff

[GoDadGo]

I can see why the business failed!

[karlos]

I assume you mean cost. Seriously well engineered and executed, funky body style notwithstanding. This is far from what you typically think of as a kit. Anybody know what one of these actually did cost?

[Raceral]

If anything needs to be done about the MKIV... it would be the body in my opinion... the work that goes into getting it straight is just ridicules. The complete kit is 20k and the paint is close to 10 K... seems something could be done better.
I look a lot at all those Cobra Replicas made over across the pond they don't have body seams. And please, don't screw with the frame... that's one of the best parts.

[MisterAdam]

IMO, the next business move for FFR that would make since is to expand and create a production/assembly group to sell turn key products and take advantage of the recent law changes for small manufactures....

their motto, printed right on the cover of the brochure states "built not bought". i thought the whole point of these was that we built them.

[GoDadGo]

If anything needs to be done about the MKIV... it would be the body in my opinion... the work that goes into getting it straight is just ridicules.

If they just fixed the drivers side door that would have made me happy.

The inner door skin mold just need to have a little tweaking to resolve the issue.

Yes, I have messed with Fiberglass & still have one boat mold left from when I was a lot younger.

It looks great in my back yard and has bugged my wife for the last 30 years, but we still pop a boat out from time to time.

[CraigS]

Well Dad, show us a boat from your mold please. Now back to Cobras.

[Avalanche325]

FFR is running a business. They have to do things that make a profit. So if there is something that only 10 people want, they simply can't afford to produce it.

I agree that the roadster should stay more traditional. It is a replica of a vintage 1965 car. The majority of people that buy these are doing so because they can't afford an original Cobra, or would be too afraid to drive it if they could. There is a smaller group that wants a more modern car, or hotrod that looks like a Cobra. The MKIV fits both of those to some extent. There are a couple people that want a fully modern supercar that looks like a Cobra. I personally don't get why someone wants a Cobra that is nothing like a Cobra. There have been a couple companies attempt it. They are out of business.

At the same time, I'm a hypocrite, I find the new space frame coupe exciting. Maybe that is the perfect retro-modern combination. I would even like roll-up windows and A/C like a Superformance (without the cheesy GM buttons).

The Spyder was a nice looking car but obviously not selling in high enough volume. You guys do realize that was pretty much a Coupe with the roof cut off? If you really want one, buy the coupe and do a little welding and fiberglass work.

[bwwooster]

If Dave Smith & His Band Of Merry Men Want To Do Something Really Cool, Then I Say Bring Back The Type 65 Spyder! [/QUOTE]

I've always wondered how hard it would be to incorporate the entire folding top mechanism from a Miata onto the Spyder-- the frame just bolts to the sides of the cockpit with the fabric secured around the edge. If they could get the frame, body and windshield frame to play nicely with that top, they'd have a pretty practical DD, which would really differentiate that car from the weekend toys like the Roadster and the Hot Rod.

I know I'd be really tempted...

[rx7922]

any updates?

[edwardb]

any updates?

About what? A Mk5 Roadster? Not a peep, and I wouldn't expect one. Same is said in this thread earlier. It continues to get incremental improvements and it's been stated several times there won't be a new version. The hot rod pickup was introduced and is just starting production. Dave Smith made reference to a new version supercar based on the Gen 3 Coupe frame in a recent post. Maybe to replace the GTM? Nothing has been said publicly about that. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post316599

[myjones]

Been saying this to Dave for years (heck Sten, you've probably been standing there with us as I've preached it ). Young guys with kids and us old farts with grandkids want to be able to haul them around.



Jeff

Love that body style and I want a 4 seat option too but;
The longer wheelbase on the 35 truck really lends itself to being used for a sedan delivery version which
is what I have been asking Dave for since 2012. Stretching the passenger compartment on the 33 is a
whole lot more complicated, meaning a complete new chassis.

I do think the new type 65 chassis will get a second body that will replace the GTM in the FF line-up

[j.miller]

The MKV......well I could tell ya what I know but someone would have to die.....maybe you.....maybe me......maybe anyone who even thought they knew.....It's a secret and I'm not drunk enough to spill the beans.....maybe the traveling builder would like to jump in....or Karen S..... maybe.....ah never mind. Time will tell !...da Bat

[David Hodgkins]

MKV, no clue. But the next big thing?:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ics-NEW-COUPE-!

[dhuff]

The coupe will never have a space frame due to the lack of a roof and the door openings.

[GSides9]

I can't imaging any car that has more room for personalization than Factory Five. You bolt or rivet every part in to make your car, your way. If you think you want something different, integrate it. If you can't find it, make it. The chassis is mild steel so you can remove parts, fabricate your own replacement and weld that on. They'll probably sell you one without their chassis if you want to build your own, try that with one of their competitors.

[Jammer369]

While this debate likely will eventually happen up in the conference room at Factory Five I can say for certain there is no MKV in the skunkworks as of yet. - snip - For anyone hoping to not get caught out by the next release being a MKV, you needn't worry, that's not what's next

Ok, bringing this up again as all I can do is obsess over the roadster since I probably won't be ordering a kit until at least the fall of 2021. I just got through watching Dave Smith on the fB live video from earlier this week. Near the end of the video he starts to walk us through R&D and catches himself and states he can't because they are working on something cool in case the F9 is delayed. Immediately after this he walks everyone into the showroom and starts pointing out cars in the showroom. He points out a "MkIV 20th Anniversary car", then points to the 25th Anniversary car but calls it a "MkV". I know the 25th is a MkIV but his remark is less than 30 secs after talking about a cool project in R&D he can't show anyone. Maybe there isn't a MkV they are working on yet or maybe he had just been thinking about the MkV in R&D and let it slip when looking at the roadsters in the showroom.

Jim's comment a few years ago mentioned the debate about a space frame MkV would eventually happen at FFR but hadn't as of yet.

The remark in the video is just about at the 10:45 point.

Maybe it's nothing but it is fun to speculate and think about what they might change. I don't think the body would change much at all since they just made brand new molds based on the 25th Anniversary roadster and are now using those for all MkIV kits.

I love FFR and can't wait to order a kit, hopefully next fall. Personally I think the MkIV is awesome and can't think of anything I would personally change. I like the frame the way it is now. Maybe modify the tunnel a bit to fit a 4r70W (start the roasting) but that is about it.

[Ducky2009]

David Smith LIVE video on FB.
At 10:45 he calls the 25th anniversary roadster a Mark 5

https://fb.watch/_aDqLqx3j/

[Barndad1]

I noticed the same thing that Dave said MKV, i'm looking at starting a roadster build, ordering in mid to late 2021 close to my retirement date.
Would be great if there's an updated roadster, the improvements up to the MK4 have been great, i would like to see a little more room in the trans tunnel for a t56.