2011 Coupe for the 25 Hours

[vnmsss]

After an eventful run at the 25 Hours of Thunderhill in 2010, the Coupe spent a little more than a month in the Riverside International Automotive Museum where visitors and staff truly enjoyed having a "fresh" racecar (track grime and filthy) off the racetrack. We brought the Coupe home on January 22, and have been busy "recovering" the Coupe and all of its systems ever since.

Lots of changes in the rear suspension system, including a compete relocation and re-specing of the shocks thanks to the great braintrust that is the community. Andy did the work, and I was the lucky dawg that got to drive it this weekend (Woo! Hoo!), and I'll defer to Hank Lopez, Mark Dougherty, Jim Schenck, David Borden, and others to post pictures and explain the changes, as from the first test, they're monumentally awesome in performance!!

I ran the Coupe in the TT group at Infineon, and in a field of 30+ awesome cars/drivers, placed on the podium in class both days....The car is the best ever, and turns on a dime with virtually NO body roll, no dive, no bump steer....Nothin' but outstanding on-track performance.....Here's some pics....It happened...Thanks everyone!!! This was the best weekend ever!!!!
Karen

[Dave Smith]

Karen,

I look at your photos and I am speechless. You embody so much of the FFR spirit and we are so lucky to have you racing our cars and building this community.

Dave Smith
FFR001

[Jeff Collins]

That car is so awesome!

[xlr8or]

Congrats on the test run Karen. Nice to see it back on the track.

[Dave Smith]

Karen,

Would you please make a BLOG out of the weekend test and your car? It is so absolutely cool in every way and I would love folks to hear more from you... I dont actually know what that takes to do (I could be asking you to drive 25 hours r something.. wait you did that!), but these pix are so inspiring, I wish I was there!

Dave Smith
FFR001

[Garry Bopp]

Karen,

Sounds like you had an awesome weekend and "suspension magic" has transformed the coupe! What a great crew you have doing the development work! Keep up the good work!

Garry

[Hankl]

Hi Gang,

I just want to post a few pictures so you can all see what we've being doing to make the Coupe even more competitive against newer model cars. As Mark Dougherty mentioned in another thread, this was a combined effort of many people, who hold the Coupe dear. Mark Dougherty realized the need for a change in the spring rates being used on the Racing Coupe, and developed an action to accomplish this, with Jim Schenck at FFR. I had seen some of the pictures of what Mark was up to, and volunteered to take care of procuring the new shocks(David Borden help me a bunch here, He's forgotten more about suspension and shocks than most of us will ever know!!), and do mount fabrication for Karen's Coupe.

What has evolved, is a shock very close to the 3 link shock, in valving and overall length. Part of the program, is to use parts and procedures that will be very simple for all of us to acquire and/or use, to mimic the same modifications. What has been accomplished by moving the shock, as close to the IRS knuckle as possible, is a reduction in the spring rate required, vs. the spring needed to do exactly the same thing with the rear inboard mount. Essentially letting us use a lower spring rate, for the same amount of work. The huge benefit, is having a setup that is more tunable, because we can change the spring in smaller increments, which equates to finer tuning of the suspension reactions.

Imagine being able to change 50lbs, vs 200lbs, to get the same reaction. With the heavier spring, you could hit or miss totally the sweet spot you were looking for, and not know it. With smaller spring rate changes, we can know exactly where the sweet spot is, and adjust to it consistently.

A little long winded, so I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.


This was the first mock up of the top mount, initially I though we would have to run the shock spring up, that's why the top mount is so wide. The final version is much narrower.



Lower shock mount, the nut had to be welded to the inside of the inner mount, so there would be more than enough clearance between the CV boot and the shock mount.




This is a better picture of the change in distance from the inboard rear mount, to the forward outer mount. It doesn't look like a lot, but it is significant when you run the ratio numbers.



I need to make it very clear, that we are doing this because we needed to be able to tune the suspension, to a much more finite parameter, than what's needed on a street machine. In todays racing environment, 10th's of a second count, while this isn't the 24 Hours of Le Mans, we do go out to the track with the drive and desire to win against all comers, so we look for every advantage we can get, that simple.

Hank

[Garry Bopp]

Hank,

Will this mod also help with the LCA breakage issues? It would seem since the shock is mounted in a different spot on the LCA, and with the lower spring rates, there should be less stress on it.

Garry

[Hankl]

Garry,

This would help with a lesser load on the "H" arm for sure, but the spring rates that are being used for the Track Coupe are almost double vs. a street car. So I don't see an inherent fault in the "H" arm, just the way we are abusing it. Mark and I had a long conversation about this up at Infineon this weekend, along with input from Andy Salvaggio and Carl Critz. I think we will continue to evaluate the current change, and see what we can do to improve the durability of the race system, and feed what needs to be fed down into a street package.

Hank

[Garry Bopp]

Hank,

Thanks for the pics, explanations, etc. You guys are really doing a lot of heavy duty tweaking of this package for race conditions. I'm guessing none of these mods would be required if Karen didn't drive so fast??!! LOL!

Garry

[Geezer]

Karen, Andy, Hank, David, Mark, Jim, and....

Thanks so much for sending me into the winter garage on my back looking at the rear suspension geometry. Love you guys, but damn its cold out there. I've stripped the powder coat off the H-arms (Rust-Oleum Aircraft Remover from AutoZone, at least cleans up well enough to media blast). And, fired up Suspension Analyzer 2.0 Full Vehicle Version.........

Ken

[peffem]

You guys must hold the record for the most times the body has been off and back on for mods. What is your average amount of time to remove body? It must not be much. Keep up the good work. I really like what you all have done with the Coupe. Good luck in 2011.

[vnmsss]

Dave....Really honored you're following the efforts of all of these builders as "we" work together to build the best track Coupe possible....Your support and encouragement, along with everyone's help both from the forum and there at Factory Five Racing is greatly appreciated!

peffem......Thanks so much for the kind words.....BTW....All of the mods on the #28 have been done with the body installed....

Ken....We thought maybe you were getting bored over there, so thought we'd dream up something more to put in the hopper! ;.)

Karen

[Mark Dougherty]

Ed
The photos you see of the mod are from Hanks car. He has done exactly the same mod done to karens car.

[Geezer]

Ken....We thought maybe you were getting bored over there, so thought we'd dream up something more to put in the hopper! ;.)

You're right - needed a kick in the tail to get off the winter couch. Try as I might, I can't read the spring rate on the Eibachs in Hank's photo (even if I turn the monitor upside down - guess I could rotate the picture but "that wouldn't be the cowboy way" -- an obscure Rider's in the Sky reference for you who didn't have kids in the late 80s), nor can I read the sticker on the Koni body (is that a 3012??). Did you send your old 3012s to Koni to mod for longer extended length and be revalved, or did you spec and buy a new set? I can't seem to resist improvements that stretch out the day I might drive this thing, but hate to lose the value of the 3012s I already own.

Thanks for your (and team's) pioneering efforts. I love the pictures of the car cornering flat (kind of F1 like!). One of those departures from the originals that takes the car to a new level.

Ken

[Hankl]

Ken,

That info is going to cost you BIG TIME!

As soon as I get every thing together, and we make sure there are no kinks in the system, it will be released for everyones use. Don't worry, one of the primary directives we had, was to make it the best possible, with off the shelf parts .

Stay Tuned.

Hank

You're right - needed a kick in the tail to get off the winter couch. Try as I might, I can't read the spring rate on the Eibachs in Hank's photo (even if I turn the monitor upside down - guess I could rotate the picture but "that wouldn't be the cowboy way" -- an obscure Rider's in the Sky reference for you who didn't have kids in the late 80s), nor can I read the sticker on the Koni body (is that a 3012??). Did you send your old 3012s to Koni to mod for longer extended length and be revalved, or did you spec and buy a new set? I can't seem to resist improvements that stretch out the day I might drive this thing, but hate to lose the value of the 3012s I already own.

Thanks for your (and team's) pioneering efforts. I love the pictures of the car cornering flat (kind of F1 like!). One of those departures from the originals that takes the car to a new level.

Ken

[snakeboost]

Karen
How did the transmission work out for you?

Steve

[vnmsss]

Steve,

Our Fortes TKO 600-R tranny is awesome, and as we moved toward the 25 hours last year, proved to be one of the biggest overall improvements we made on the car. There has been quite a discussion over the last few months regarding the "best" trans to use in our cars, and while the are a lot of variables that affect that answer (engine, diff/gear ratio, IRS, 3-link, etc,), having driven the TKO 500/3550 and now the 600-R, to me there's no comparison.....It's the 600-R all the way, and I simply don't know anyone who wants ultimate performance on their car that the would choose a .64 fifth gear....Unless you have mondo HP/TQ, people just "live" with it! Thanks!

Karen

[Geezer]

Karen,
I look at your photos and I am speechless. You embody so much of the FFR spirit and we are so lucky to have you racing our cars and building this community. Dave Smith
FFR001

Tribute tune (from the obscure car nut tunes collection) If you are hearing impaired like me, a clearer version can be found on iTunes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlOx_7rnxsk

Ken

[Tim Potts]

What kind of fuel consumption is there during a 25hr race? Avg MPG?

[David]

Karen, congrats! Pics look awesome.... Great to hear Hanks mods worked out great. I knew they would, an honestly, I think your control arm issues are a thing of the past now. Just too much stress from those crazy high spring rates needed for this level of racing.

It looks as though you might be able to use a tad more rear camber from the posted images. Where are you running it now?

Time for chassis mods up front? Let me know if you want any help on this. I think following the pattern on my thread should net you over 2X improvement.

David

[vnmsss]

April 11, 2011 Update

We ran the Coupe at California Speedway in March in the same configuation as our February run at Infineon. We decided to leave the same set-up as CA Speedway is CCW (opposite of Infineon), and presents somewhat different/increased stresses due to the addition of the high banking dynamic. We also wanted to collect data from the reverse direction before moving on with further changes with the suspension. The car performed well, however we noted that it did not want to hook up and track out as well in turns of more than 70 degrees....It would turn in fine, but the throttle had to be feathered significantly while you waited for the front end to hook up, so the translation would be mid corner push...Once it hooked up, the car would accelerate and track out steady, smooth and fast....

Following the significant rear shock modifications, we had begun the process of lowering the spring rate on all four corners of the car, and with our first enduro slated for April 9th at Buttonwillow, the decision was made to soften the springs further (front and rear). We also reset the ride height, and made the decision to disconnect the rear swaybar completely.

As a frame of reference, the #28 Coupe weighs 2650 lbs. with no driver and 1/2 half tank of gas (16 gallons)....Yes, those roll bars (front, rear, door bars) and a volumous 32-gallon cell capacity add some significant weight. We also have one honkin big bumper in the rear which we fondly refer to as our Miata bumper (no offense to the Miata guys, but we've found that they do tend to bump draft now and again, and one look at the tail of the Coupe would tell anyone why that's just a bad idea for our car). The Coupe hit the track with 700 lb springs front, with 450 lb LR, and 400 lb. RR. Rear camber was set at -2, and the front at -2.25......Caster at +6 (running PS).



Test and tune on Friday, April 8th went very well, with the Coupe easily turning 2:01 flats consistently, which would mean a good qualifying position for the enduro the following day. Saturday morning we took the car out for a TT session, and the best the car would turn was a 2:06.....The car seems to push a bit more, and suspension was checked, a wheel bearing tightened, and a reset of toe. Qualifying time: 2:04.x, which would place the Coupe 14th on grid. had we been able to get to the 2:01 from the previous day, we'd have been 10th on grid.

David Borden's most recent post in this thread proved prophetic.....Dave Brown and I would co-drive this event, with Dave in 14th position at the green flag. By the end of the first lap, the Coupe had moved up to 9th position overall. We were in 8th position by lap 2, and running a solid 7th place and turning 1:59.x laps at 40 minutes in when.........The left front UCA decided to let go......Fortunately, the car was still driveable, and Dave brought the Coupe in for repairs. UCA was changed in roughly 20 minutes, but of course, we were down some 10 laps at that point. Karen got in the car and drove for the next 1.5 hours, and managed to gain back 7 of those positions by the time the final stop and driver change was accomplished. Dave strapped in and gained back one more position for the team before the checker flag fell at 9:10 PM....Final race results.: 6th in class, 17th overall.

Buttonwillow 3-Hour Enduro Race results: http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1832399

Team PDG was there, and hats off to team driver Mike Holland for a valiant effort in driving the GTM....The car looked great, and while they had their challenges, it was great to see it back on track after the 25....Awesome work guys!!!

Big kudos and thanks to Team Thunder Valley Racing crewmembers Roman Vaisman, Ryan Althoff, Bill Roberston and his lovely wife Brenda, Tracy Marshall, and our newest crewmember (and GTM owner) Tom Kendall, who made the long trip up from Fontana area to crew with us at the enduro. It was also great to see Factory Five's own celebrity owner/builder Mike Eastin (aka AC Mikee, star of Speed Channel's recent feature on Factory Five) who spent the weekend at the track with us!! Thanks Mike!!! We also owe a big thanks to Team Vogel Boys Racing ownesr/drivers Mike Vogel and his son Patrick Vogel who spent the evening in the pits with Team TVR. Fellow FFR owner/builder Doug Rossier was also on hand for the enduro, and it was great to have their support and encouragement this weekend!!! Thank you!!

We look forward to seeing all of our FFR friends at the upcoming AHA Show in Pomona on April 16th, and of course, we can't wait for Huntington Beach!!!! The Coupe will be there freshr off the track from its latest endurance racing adventures.....

Thanks again to everyone for your continued support and encouragement! The Coupe draws big attention at every track event, and it's a complete blast to drive! We consider ourselves lucky dawgs to be out here campaigning what we think is one of the coolest cars on the track! We know there are at least four other Coupes being developed by individual builders from around the country right now, and it will be one cool day when we have a nice group of Coupes running at a track event.....See you guys at AHA or HB, or if we're lucky, we'll see you in our mirror on track! ;.)))

Big thanks to Dave Smith and everyone at Factory Five Racing......THANK YOU! You guys rock!!

Lucky Winner.....This one's for you! Karen

[Russ Thompson]

Karen looking forward to seeing you at HB, I decided to fly down this year and see everyone!

[vnmsss]

It will be great to see you Russ!! I've been meaning to call you, as we need a gas pedal for the orange Challenge car....We're planning to bring the car to HB, and it works better if it has an accelerator pedal...;.))) Have a bunch of meetings today, but will try to give you a call later in the afternoon....
Karen

[vnmsss]

It was very cool to have three Factory Five race cars representing in the E1, E0 and ES classes in the enduro this weekend!

As mentioned earier, Team Prototype Development Group burned the midnight oil many a night leading up to the race. In the weeks and months that followed their great performance at the 25 Hours, which had been cut short by an unfortunate incident on track, the PDG crew rebuilt the GTM and had her track ready this weekend. Unless someone has truly experienced the massive effort it takes to rebuild a racecar following a devastating incident such as they suffered, it's hard to appreciate just how much strength (physical and emotional) it takes to bring a car back. It was great to see the PDG rig pull into the pits...Kudos and hats off to everyone....And Mike....You 'da man! It had to be 3 long hours!

Challenge Series drivers Tom Coon and Jeff Awender teamed up in Tom's spec racer to compete in the E1 class, and did a great job out there on track!!! Jeff and Tom had kicked around the idea of co-driving in an enduro earlier this year, and the plan was hatched last month at the Infineon race. They worked tirelessly over the last three weeks to get the car ready, including fabricating a lightbar for the night race. The car performed flawlessly, and they drove very well day and night. Team Thunder Valley Racing was glad to provide "valet" pit service for your outstanding effort.....Congratulations Tom and Jeff.....You now officially hold the title of endurance racers!!!



Karen

[David]

Karen,

What type of limited slip are you running in the car? Throttle induced push can be caused by a tight diff. When I went from a Ford trac loc to a Torsen T2 diff, the car transformed. I went from throttle on push, to having the car feel like it was pushed around corners. Im thinking the trac loc isnt optimal for our cars.

David

[Garry Bopp]

Karen,

You are just having too much fun! The night-time pic of the coupe at speed is awesome.

I've done 2 cruise weekends with the coupe since tires/alignment, etc. It feels like a totally different car ... even more fun to drive than it already was. Here's a link to last weekend: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...our-de-Floride

Garry

[vnmsss]

Garry....Been following all of the changes on your car, and I'm really glad to hear it's even more fun than ever....;.)

Here's a few more photos from this weekend....

Pre-grid


Daughter (and FFR spec racer owner) Tracy Marshall with our grandson Evan at his first enduro...


Team Thunder Valley Racing's Roman Vaisman (Lead Data Team) and Ryan Althoff (Lead Fuel Team)

[vnmsss]

Team Thunder Valley Racing: 3-Hours of Buttonwillow drivers & crew....
(L to R) Tom Coon, Jeff Awender (co-drivers #21 Challenge Series roadster), Patrick Vogel, Bill Robertson, Ryan Althoff, Mike Vogel, Dave Brown, Karen Salvaggio, Andy Salvaggio (and our own Doug Rossier (DougR) in the background)....Thanks guys!!!!

[LuckyWinner]

Im hearing alot of talk about the new rear suspension system, blaw blaw blaw....Im pretty sure that dedicating the race to the Military and myself is the major reason for the changes. Sure the hours of hard work and people pulling together (cry me a river)and sure theres that driver that might have helped a little, but Im hear to say....it was me. Foward all congrat and thanks to my profile page also if anyone else out there wants to start winning more races, just pm me and for a small fee I will give you my full blessing.

[vnmsss]

David.....We are running the stock T-Bird IRS, including the posi......It's not serendipitous that you mention it though, as the IRS was completely rebuilt just prior to this event. We noted at CA Speedway last month that the posi had become very weak (very easy to turn with one wheel on the ground), so we pulled everything out and rebuilt. It's definately tight (to spec) now.

Karen

[LuckyWinner]

That last post of mine was just my idea of a joke. I had someone pm me and tell me that it might be taken the wrong way. So let me set things strait. 1-I know lots of people worked their butts off to make this a better race car putting in long hours and teamwork. Both these things I take very serious, being in the Military. 2-Im not putting down Karen in anyway and I think she can tell that the post was just a joke. 3-I dont think I have any magical powers that helped win this race or any future races. 4-due to number 3, it would be a waist for you to send me any money to win any future races. I hope this post sets the record strait, I was just being funny in my own way.

[David]

Karen,

If you would like, let me know if you have some time to chat on the phone about the car its handling.

David

[xlr8or]

Just need to use that sarcasm emotican.

[David Hodgkins]

Lucky I doubt ANYONE thought you were serious!

Karen, as usual, great report on the events.

Can't wait to see you and Andy this weekend!

[vnmsss]

It's all good Lucky.....;.) No offense taken......Nine years on the flightline in the Air Force and twenty-five years racing....I'm pretty much teflon now anyway..

David H.....See you this weekend....The car's all loaded...Can't wait!

David B.....Thanks so much.....Crazy week...Will call tommorow.

K

[vnmsss]

Been a long time, and lots of developments here....Thanks for everyone's continued good wishes for Andy...Your thoughts and prayers are very much appreciated.

Team Thunder Valley Racing fielded the #28 Coupe at Auto Club Speedway this weekend, and we were very pleased to finish on the podium in TTS class. It has been more than two months since our last race, which was an enduro at Thunderhill (May) in which we podiumed on Saturday and lost a half shaft, sidelining the car on Sunday. Our focus in the weeks and months since have been fully shifted to Andy's health, so the car had been sitting untouched.

Last weekend however, with the help of some very good friends, we got back into the garage, with the hope of fielding the car at Auto Club Speeday (which is very near the facility where Andy is staying)....The idea was to bring Andy out to the track for a visit for the day. However, it became clear late in the week that he would not be feeling well enough for the trip. We decided, however, that since the event was nearby, and that we'd put so much effort into it, we'd go ahead and run the car on Saturday. John Card and Bill Roberston spent the day focusing their efforts in making the car competitive on track, and John's lovely wife Tracie, helped organize and manage the team's efforts for the day. All three of these fine individuals deserve big kudos and thanks for our solid on-track performance.

For those of us lucky enough to own a Coupe, or are in the process of building one, we know these care are truly awesome. It was certainly great to be back behind the wheel. The car was in the top ten (among 41 great performance-built cars) all day, and our podium finish (3rd place) is a great credit to our awesome team!!! I am very grateful for your continued support! Thanks so much everyone!!!

Karen

John snapped this photo in the garage yesterday.....

[Jeff Collins]

Good therapy for everyone I'm sure. Andy and all of the family continues to be in our thoughts and prayers.

[Russ Thompson]

Karen, read todays update, sorry Andy couldn't be there but I'm glad your getting out there and doing some seat time. Doing what you love helps you cope with the bad **** life throws at you and I know that Andy would agree with me.

I spent yesterday at a memorial sevice for a friend from the Bay Area Cobra Club, the sweetest guy, the guy always there when ANYONE needed help. His name was Fitz and he was the kind of guy that makes this sport a family. You guys are part of this family and we all hope for a speedy recovery for Andy.

[Garry Bopp]

Karen & Andy,

The Thunder Valley Race Team must be the largest racing team in the world! There are folks all over the country that either pitch in and help or send prayers and thoughts your way. Great to hear you got some seat time in the car ... and a podium finish is just icing on the cake. Great therapy for you and I know it will do Andy good as well.

Garry