Hood Hinge fitment, panel fitment, access plate fitment

[wrp]

Been doing major relook at my hinge and hood, hood panels, and mounting hardware. Had a terrible time getting the instructions in the Gen I Manual to work, mainly cause I did not understand thm. Hood was incosnistent, hard to align, opemn, and close. Found an article by Dan Ruth on the old manual instructions had the lower mgas shock mount too high. So I dropped mine an inch on each side and the improvement was dramatic. Hood stays on the shelf when you pop the latch, it closes to the shelf and not the engine compartment. It is also more stable in the wind, farting, breezes, thunderstorms, hail storms etc. It does cause the hood to not open as far. If you need to spend a lot of time *** up in the engine compartment you might consider the requirements as you think through it. IMG_6705.jpeg While conducting this advanced study in quantum mechanics I also discovered my own Higgs Bosun with a close comparison of diagrams, photos, and manuals over the years. The damned hardware was not assembled correctly. The scientist, apparently with depth perception problems, misread the diagram, which honestly can be read to say anything you want, sort of like COVID Statistics. So I pulled the hinge hardware and reconstructed it within the constraines of the dark matter and dark energy controlling the universe. IMG_6704.jpeg IMG_6703.jpg When I put the initial panels on the car I used button head hex bolts. Heck that was the thing. I noticed a terrible amount of damage to my underhood paint. We had alwas had a problem with the resting points of the hood against the car. We ground down the heads of the bolts, all to no avail. I decided to go to countersunk hex headed bolts. Still worried about structural integrity on the hood panels but I like the results. IMG_6694.jpegIMG_6698.jpegIMG_6697.jpeg Final issue was the access plates on the firewall ledge. The button head bolts had been a long problem. I Countersunk the holes and put in hex headed bolts that sat flush. While we were at it the wife suggested we put foam padding on the hood over the access plates. This covered a lot of the damage and makes for a more solid feeling opening and closing, at least you don't hear glass grinding against itself. Getting due for some touch up anyhow. Thinking when I paint the new Louvered panels I can address the issues. Funny thing, with the EFI, I don't think the louvers were all that necessary, other than looking cool. IMG_6709.jpegIMG_6710.jpegIMG_6701.jpeg

[tony]

1st gen hinges are crap. I wish I would’ve ditched them before all the cutting and hacking and just used quick hatches. I unfortunately have the same scratches as you that just started. We put felt over the side panel screws

[Tampa33Build]

I changed to Gen2 hinges prior to taking to body shop.
Body shop owner's pre-assessment was that he did not like the Gen1 hinge setup. He was convinced opening and closing the hood would eventually scratch the paint.

[wrp]

I was pretty much of the same opinion, however, having worked with them I feel like they work decently enough I am not motivated to change them.

[FF33rod]

When I fit my side panels on, I had to remove those mounting tabs at the cowl. The hood was too tight and wouldn't slide down over them. So with them removed, I having to devise another method of fixing that end of the side panel to the body. Looks like I will bonding in an small L bracket which will attach to the firewall...

Steve

[wrp]

Just to continue the thread, after 5 years of finishing the car what you gonna do except go through it and fix all the stuff you did wrong. This hood setup has been a real epiphany. I really screwed up the grill with the misaligned hinges until I discovered Dan Ruth's post on the location of the bottom socket for the gas shock. Armed with a set of Tim Whittaker's liughter weight shocks I changed the mounting and wow. First noticeable difference was that the front of the hinge did not extend over the top of the grille and cleared the grille by a good amount. IMG_6703.jpg The net result of moving the lower shock mounts was a cleaner opening of the hood, the rear edge did not slide off the firewall shelf IMG_6716.jpeg and that makes opening a breeze. The shorter opening swing of the hood as it tilts forward did cost me a few inches of wide open underhood clearance. The tradeoff was stability of the open hood I had never experienced. The next set of issues was the front corners spreading out from the body. This had been attributed to the compression rate of the kit issued shocks. Tim's shocks helped quite a bit but the misalignment was annoying. I studied the hinges and discovered two things. First my passenger side hinge was loose and second the way the hinges rested levered the corners outward. IMG_6714.jpeg IMG_6715.jpeg I figured if I could push the connection to the hood hardware inward so the hinge actually pressed inward at the top, I might force the gaps to narrow. IMG_6704.jpeg IMG_6722.jpeg IMG_6723.jpeg it may be hard to tell but the 1/8 inch washers added to the pivot point where the hinge hardware fastens to the hood hardware physically did move the outer edges inward, about 1/16-1/8 inch. IMG_6729.jpg IMG_6732.jpeg Now I have to figure out how to repair the old damage to the grill.

[JimLev]

Thanks for the tips. The hood is the last part I need to install. I’ve been putting it off as long as possible after spending over a month on the roof and then weeks on the power windows.
Do you remember what the force of Tim’s hood shocks are? The ones in my kit are 24 lbs.

[wrp]

I think Tims were 15#. My kit is a really old 2008 Kit so be careful and study yours before you follow my exact lead

[sread]

after listening to you guys talk about how bad the hood hinges are it just confirms my decision to stick with a lift off hood ...whenever I decide to use it.

[JimLev]

after listening to you guys talk about how bad the hood hinges are it just confirms my decision to stick with a lift off hood ...whenever I decide to use it.

Thanks for the info Bill.

sread, maybe hinge it at the back and have it open from the front?

[wrp]

Sorry if I bummed you out. With the functionality, fit, and stability of my hood now, I would not now accept any alternatives under any condition. Dan Ruth said it in his article. "This mechanism was exceptionally well designed." Probably 75-80% of the owners are scratching their heads having never had an issue with the hoods, fitment, or hinges. The remainder of us, not realizing the actual functioning component purpose, and having gotten it wrong from the start experienced frustration as we dealt with the symptoms.

In my case, the 1 inch off placement of the lower mount threw the geometry of the entire assembly off. I did not decipher, plan, or locate the original holes for the mount, a group of guys in a shop helping me did it. They had the same assembly manual I did and as I removed and reinstalled it several times I came back to the same mistakes that gave me the same irritating results. I have had no less than three shops looking at the car and doing other work that required fitment of the hood and each of the three, using the same gen I manual, successfully achieved the wrong results. I don't think any of us are stupid, we are just not mechanical engineers and as we looked at the drawings in the manual, without that sophisticated comprehension, it is possible to get it wrong.

A case in point is the wiring diagrams. They are very high quality, professionally done blueprints. I haven't read Blueprints in years. I am old and my eyes are not what they used to be. When I decided I was going to self audit the installation, it took me no less than a half dozen attempts to get the hinges assembled correctly. I would look at the dashed lines on the exploded drawings and my depth perception or lack thereof would make it difficult to determine the sequence of component installation and in some cases the direction.

Everybody can laugh at me but it was a challenge. Exacerbating the challenge, the previous wrong installations had influenced the fitment of the side panels. There was a tendancy to not want to cut on the panels since they were finished and installed. My opinion is the hinges should be as far outboard as is possible with the hood hardware forced in by spacing to bend the corners inward instead of outward. If you intend to fit the panels without cutting the lip in the area of the hinges, you cannot assemlbe the hinges correctly. The panels have to be trimmed and the geometry of the panels is decisive.. I've seen some great alternatives and even went the route of the quik latch at first. There is nothing to be reluctant about on the GenI hood hardware in my opinion.

[wrp]

The reason for the hood obsession is the perparation for my louvered engine compartment panels Don Ross is fabricating. Fitment has to be pretty close as he prepares his final fitment on the new panels. Went down Friday afternoon and he worked on the fitment on one side. He has fabricated a pinned lower mounting system which should take all the great fun out of trying to bolt the skirts on along the bottom of the car. Those of you who have racks in the home won't understand. At any rate, really stoked at the early fitments.

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[Plimpton]

after listening to you guys talk about how bad the hood hinges are it just confirms my decision to stick with a lift off hood ...whenever I decide to use it.

sread, I want to follow your lead and do a lift-off hood on my 33 because I intend to run most of the time without it. I’m scratching my head on how/where to mount the pins. Could you tell me what you did?

[wrp]

Continuing to work on fitment and placing of the hinges on the Gen 1 Hot Rod I was looking at the assembly and decided to try different shock mount locatiosns to see if that could address the problem of the front corners of the hood spreading out in the closed position. Long thought the problem was the shock itself, I did learn that by dropping the lower mount an inch I could get the hinge to clear the grill and give me a much better opening stability as well as more stability in the propped up position. Using this logice I wondered if the upper L Shaped brackets could be treated differently. I moved the upper shock mount up and forward on the bracket and the effect was to immediately pull the corners of the hood inward on closing.

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[wrp]

So I have continued to try to destroy my car by screwing around with the hood. I still have some lift at the front corners of the hood. I tried repositioning the top Gas Shock Mount on the drivers side and the fit was awesome. The passenger side was less so, so I have continued to try to figure out how all the angles, hardware, and other moving parts are supposed to work together. In the meantime, my original Rivenuts popped out of the hinge base mount on the fiberglass hood. That area is backed with a solid sheet of aluminum and should be pretty strong. However, the forces of the gas shock and thousands of openings and closings just popped first on, then twop of the rivenuts on the drivers side. This left the hinge out of alignment and caused a bind when opening the hood that ultimately popped the second nut. Figuring I had to fix that I removed the hood. The mounting pad on the hood itself was pretty badly screwed up from numerous attempts to mount and remount the hood. There were old rivenuts in the pad still that were not being used. I stiudied it and just decided to give up on the rivenuts. I went to the front of the pad and sawed out an access opening big enough to get my fingers, nuts, washers, and a 1/2 inch wrench in. I drilled out the unused rivenuts and just bolted the steel hinge to the pad with bolts that went through the steel hinge, the pad and had nuts and washers on the back side. Result was a very solid feeling mount for the hinges. Since it is on the front, you cannot see it. In a pinch you could get around behind it and get a wrench on the nuts. I used the nylon locking nuts.

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Step two was to replace my L shped hinge brackets as the originals were getting really holy. I bught a 6 inch by 6 inch by 3/16 inch piece of mild steel and traced off the old one then touched them up and painted them. I am going to use them to get the final dial in on the hinge setup then replace them with stainless steel.

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[sread]

sread, I want to follow your lead and do a lift-off hood on my 33 because I intend to run most of the time without it. I’m scratching my head on how/where to mount the pins. Could you tell me what you did?

sorry for the late reply but just saw this - I haven't come up with any thing yet...just been kind of thinking about it in the back of my mind while I try to get ready for first start. There was somebody in one of the early builds ( I wanna say Eric Treves but not certain) who did the lift off hood and I am about to start searching for it to get some ideas.


found it - it was Erik Hansen, not Treves

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/ehans....254994/page-9

[wrp]

That was such a beautiful build, did he ever get the Bugatti done?