Hi all! I was going to hold off on starting a thread until after we received our kit, but with so much to do before the kit even arrives, I figure no time like the present. I've titled the thread "3-Gen" as I will be building the 818C with my Father Bob (77) and my Son Luke (14). The initial goal of the project was to try and spend more father-son time with my son, and hopefully teach him some more useful life skills than spending most of his time on the computer! As my dad and I rebuilt a 1964 1/2 Mustang when I was 15, I thought it would be a great project for all of us to work on. All three of us are headed to Mott Community College for the 818 Build school 11/13-11/15. Luckily, I'm a pilot and own my own Beechcraft Bonanza, so other than the time spent in class, feel we can safely socially distance ourselves and still attend.
We were able to find a 2004 WRX donor on Copart back in mid September for $2,000. Seemed like the ideal donor, with everything we needed. Only challenge was it was located in Savannah, GA, so I went on a 29 hour round trip from NY with a good friend of mine to pick it up. Was actually a fun (and comfortable) trip as we did it in a King Ranch F350. After disabling the aftermarket alarm system, the car fired right up and actually sounded really good. IMG_1214.jpg
Stripping the car and salvaging the parts took us about 4 weeks, and then the carcass was sent to scrap we recovered $45... (Every little bit helps). As our kit isn't scheduled for pickup until 12/19, I didn't have the manual, so based it almost fully on the list of donor parts provided by FFR and the Grass Roots Motorsports video series on the build. Ironically, David did provide me the manual just yesterday, which will definitely help as we prep parts ahead of the kit arriving.
One disappointment in the donor was that in prepping the transmission for cleaning / paint, we found a large chunk of metal in it. IMG_1464.jpg
I consulted a local transmission shop, and their initial advice was to try and find a used, low mileage unit. Sadly, such items don't really exist at a reasonable price. Plenty of them out there, but all greater than $1K. We decided to explore a bit and see what was going on. Turns out, it couldn't have been better news. It was actually the rear diff that totally blew apart, but we discard that anyway. Rest of the trans was in great condition! While apart, we will replace a few bearings, races and seals, but otherwise a solid 5-speed!
We are also rebuilding the engine from the block up. Mainly as part of the "learning experience" for my son. Not looking to modify it too much over stock, but looking for a couple easy upgrades that really won't provide too much risk to the engine as we don't plan to race it of anything crazy. Just figure while we're at it, can tackle a couple mods that seem generally helpful. Please provide any suggestion you might have!! I know one popular thing is to remove the TGV valves. Seems like many of you recommend that.
Let me b the first one to welcome you! You'll find this is a great place to bounce ideas around, a really great group of like minded people.
Originally Posted by roadrashrob
Turns out, it couldn't have been better news. It was actually the rear diff that totally blew apart, but we discard that anyway. Rest of the trans was in great condition!
Did you mean the center diff? I can't figure how a chunk of the rear diff would make it into the transmission
Glad to see you are going to document your family build as well Rob! You guys got a heck of a deal on the WRX donor. Don’t ask how much we spent on our running 2.5i NA wagon 😟
818 "S"pyder delivered 11/27/20, using 2007 Impreza 2.5l NA donor. Work mostly being done by my son Liam...body work and paint being done by dad (that's me)
MK3.1 #6583RD, built from 2008-2019, sold 11/2011
So first of, yes... The "middle" diff.. I was thinking "rear" of the two IN the transmission. The trans shop actually called it something different, but I forget what they called it.
The other great part about this donor, is that while I drove 29 hours to get it, the car has clearly never seen snow, and more importantly SALT on the road. Very little to no rust on anything. From looking at other photos in the forum, some of the parts are in pretty bad condition on the donor.
Transmission shop just called that they are done with the tranny. I sent them the FFR manual on the 2WD conversion, so they pulled the parts off for me, split the case to flush it out and inspected everything for any other damage. Says the rest of the tranny is in great condition. Joked that he didn't charge me to take it apart, but was I OK with $150 since he put it back together for me! I thought that was a bargain considering I went into it thinking I possibly needed another transmission.
Welcome to the fun! We started our build soon after my son's 15th birthday and just got to the go-kart stage. This is my first car project of any magnitude and it's taking a lot of slow, methodical thought. As HobbyRacer says, I think you'll find this group welcoming, supportive, and willing to share their knowledge and experience. I wouldn't have considered a build without the help of these folks.
Welcome aboard....I also had a building experience with my dad when I was 15 (1973 Corvette) and wanted to do the same with my son and daughters. As the months have turned into years so far on this build I find it is harder to get the time for us both to get out there and work than I thought it would be. So take advantage of every moment....they go by fast.
Welcome. I also look forward to following your build and the rewards of building with 3 generations. As others have said, this place is welcoming, supportive, and willing to share knowledge and experience. With a rust-free donor you are already a step ahead.
818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).
Thanks for the warm welcomes everyone! I'm really looking forward to leaning on all of your collective wisdom as we venture down this path.
Got my transmission back from the shop yesterday, and thought I'd close that chapter with a picture of what they pulled out. My only guess is it broke when the car was in the accident, and immediately shut down and stopped the transmission moving. Only explanation I can think of for how there was that much metal all throughout the tranny, but no visible damage to anything! Hoping it's a good sign of things to come... Metal.jpg
Last edited by roadrashrob; 11-05-2020 at 03:15 PM.
Any idea why my photo is posting sideways? Upright on my phone, and upright on my computer for upload... Tried twice, one after physically rotating it and then saving it...
The forum posts pictures better when taken in landscape mode on your phone (not portrait mode as you have them). If you have the home button towards the right side when you capture pictures they will load without rotating.
818 "S"pyder delivered 11/27/20, using 2007 Impreza 2.5l NA donor. Work mostly being done by my son Liam...body work and paint being done by dad (that's me)
MK3.1 #6583RD, built from 2008-2019, sold 11/2011
So, I FINALLY got the cam pulley bolts out. I thought it would be a simple task with with right tools, so got a got (impact quality) 10mm hex bit to not risk snapping my not so good quality 3/8" bit, and a hefty 29mm wrench for the hex part of the cams. One broke fairly easy, one required myself and my hefty neighbor on long breakers, but two wouldn't budge. Tried multiple angles, and multiple approaches, and all to no avail. So I went to my best friend these days, YouTube! As I had the valve covers off, the "logical" approach appeared to be just get a wrench around the hex part, but you really can't get the wrench on good enough. Many of you many be laughing at me, but this is part of the fun learning process!
Made progress with the steering rack as well. Just debating whether to remove the center seal on the rack or not. If I remove it, I don't need the bypass tube to balance the air, but it does seem to add a bit of additional stability to the rack? As the tie rods are in amazing condition, I plan to just clean and re-plate them so the go on with the factory yellow-chromate look.
We're off the the FFR build school this weekend. Hoping getting his hands on an actual kit amps up my son's excitement. Stripping down dirty parts seems to have limited appeal to him. He's great once he gets started, but sometimes is tough to motivate. Especially since the clocks went back and it is dark so early....
So, I FINALLY got the cam pulley bolts out. I thought it would be a simple task with with right tools, so got a got (impact quality) 10mm hex bit to not risk snapping my not so good quality 3/8" bit, and a hefty 29mm wrench for the hex part of the cams. One broke fairly easy, one required myself and my hefty neighbor on long breakers, but two wouldn't budge. Tried multiple angles, and multiple approaches, and all to no avail. So I went to my best friend these days, YouTube! As I had the valve covers off, the "logical" approach appeared to be just get a wrench around the hex part, but you really can't get the wrench on good enough. Many of you many be laughing at me, but this is part of the fun learning process!
Made progress with the steering rack as well. Just debating whether to remove the center seal on the rack or not. If I remove it, I don't need the bypass tube to balance the air, but it does seem to add a bit of additional stability to the rack? As the tie rods are in amazing condition, I plan to just clean and re-plate them so the go on with the factory yellow-chromate look.
We're off the the FFR build school this weekend. Hoping getting his hands on an actual kit amps up my son's excitement. Stripping down dirty parts seems to have limited appeal to him. He's great once he gets started, but sometimes is tough to motivate. Especially since the clocks went back and it is dark so early....
We head out to Michigan tomorrow for the build school, but while we had some time tonight, showed my dad how we powder coat. Got the steering rack coated. Will re-assemble when we return from the class. Weather cooperating, so looks like an easy flight tomorrow!
I’m jealous you are able to do powder coating at home! Enjoy the build school and wishing you a safe flight. We had beautiful weather here last week and cold front passed into Ohio today, so watch the icing levels as you make your way to Detroit tomorrow!
818 "S"pyder delivered 11/27/20, using 2007 Impreza 2.5l NA donor. Work mostly being done by my son Liam...body work and paint being done by dad (that's me)
MK3.1 #6583RD, built from 2008-2019, sold 11/2011
Thanks Scott. This project was a great excuse to purchase a cheap oven on Craigs list, and then teach myself how to weld to create what my wife has affectionately named the "Poven" (for Parts-Oven) :-) Just don't look too closely at the welds. I'm clearly still in the "learning" phase, but the sheet metal sure helps! :-)
Hey everyone. So my Dad, son and I are freshly back from the FFR Build School and more excited than ever to pickup our kit on 12/19! It was just what my son needed to get a second wind on the project. He was gung-ho tearing down the donor, but started losing a little of the excitement with just a big pile of parts in the garage that we are slowly cleaning and prepping.
I was a bit concerned as he was a bit too shy to introduce himself to the class, but the second we "unpacked" the class car he was always the first to grab a tool and get to work! Lots of great tips and tricks learned in the class that will "hopefully" save us at least a few mistakes. Going into the class I was most concerned about the bodywork as I've never really done any of it in the past. Seeing what's involved, I'm a little less intimidated and think with some patience, and extra hands, we should be able to handle it. (wishful thinking!)
Looks like we just squeaked it in as MI just locked down again so looks like classes will be on hold again. I must say that Mott College did a great job of practicing social distancing and mask protocols!
Oh well, back to prepping parts until the kit arrives!
Sorry for the delay in an update to this thread. We had the Thanksgiving week off, so did a lot of parts prep. I'd by lying if I didn't confess my 14 year old son is losing a bit of interest in cleaning dirty parts. I've been trying to prep the parts, and then have him help with the re-assembly of the newly refurbished parts. He does enjoy sandblasting parts in the cabinet, so he is VERY good at that! :-)
Since build school we worked on the front knuckles. Waiting on one bearing for reassembly, but all parts have been restored. Including the lugs from the donor car! IMG_1766.jpg
Also have the steering rack just waiting on the two lock washers which are in the mail from Subaru IMG_1696.jpg
Will bring the block to Larry's Auto Machine in CT on Wednesday which is doubling as a good excuse to get some flight hours in since he is right next to Groton airport! http://www.larryspower.com/index.html IMG_1735.jpg
Then when everything's back, I have the full Roger Clark Motorsports Timing Belt "kit" to get started with reassemble of the engine. Apparently Gates used to make a good kit, but their quality has gone way down. RCM uses all OEM parts sourced direct from the manufacturers, so less the "Subaru" part number but same part. IMG_1674.jpg
Then finally been picking up some "fun" parts that were not necessarily required, but darn nice to have like Aluminum front LCAs, new turbo and 3-port solenoid, Billeted TGV Delete IMG_1692.jpgIMG_1518.jpgIMG_1519.jpg
So, I emailed Dave at FFR today to see if my scheduled pickup date of 12/19 is still good. Fingers crossed!
Last edited by roadrashrob; 11-30-2020 at 09:30 AM.
Wow, your making every part look brand new.
To keep the interest up. Set small goals. At the stage where you are at, we had a goal of a glider. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k90o0e-KD4g
Getting real close to our scheduled completion date from FFR! 12 days, but who's counting?!! ;-)
Parts prep continues. Powder coated the rear (now front) anti-sway bar. I knew it would be a challenge finding the right angle to get it in the oven and not touch any sides, but a lot of trial and error before coating paid off! IMG_1791h.jpg
Finally received the Rack And Pinion Inner Tie Rod Lock Washers so was able to complete the steering rack IMG_1804.jpgIMG_1805.jpg
Per Mechie3's recommendation, I polished the inside of my throttle body while sitting in the garage watching football yesterday. Yes, I'm a Jet's fan with the season tickets to prove it, so I needed something to distract me! IMG_1777.jpgIMG_1820h.jpg
And last but not least, Transmission is finally painted... IMG_1812h.jpg
Still waiting on the Machine Shops with the heads and block, so hoping to Cerakote the valve covers this evening....
So, today was "supposed" to be our pickup day for the kit, but they pushed it out last week to the 28th. But I am apparently "on the board" and confirmed for a 10am pickup. In the mean time, we've been prepping as many parts as possible. USPS is definitely struggling, and lot's of small items are apparently "in transit" with no updates. One annoying part being the parking brake "hardware" to finish off my rear end prep.
Got the heads back from HeadGames in Princeton NJ, and block should be back from Larry's Auto Machine in Groton, CT next week. Was hoping to have the engine back sooner so I'd have it together BEFORE we picked up the kit. Oh well... IMG_1865.jpg
Decided to accent the engine with Cerakote "Burnt Bronze" Valve Covers and oil pan. I really wanted to try the product more than anything else, and it was awesome to work with, and I love the look!! IMG_1854.jpg
That's it until Monday when we head to Wareham to pickup our kit!!!
We got it!!!! 3-1/2 hour drive each way, but worth every minute of it.
With Covid, we were unable to get a factory tour in Wareham before ordering our kit. When we arrived yesterday, Dave Smith came out to greet us, and basically gave us the VIP Tour of the new facility next to the original building, as well as through the entire factory / warehouse. Got to see the F9R in person and all I can say is OMG!! Also the 9L V12 they are working on.... Awesome! Dave even posted our pickup on their FaceBook page. Can't thank everyone at FFR for an amazing product and experience.
Here are some pictures from the pickup. Now the build begins! (After inventory..... quite tedious! )
Huge thanks to Scott and Liam Meyer who are thankfully a bit ahead of us, and have provided a lot of "lessons learned"... Including bringing cribbing/padding for the pickup as you need it for the trailer. FFR is spectacular at loading, but it was up to us to protect the nice powder coat from the trailer!
Last edited by roadrashrob; 12-29-2020 at 06:52 PM.
Congrats again Rob! What I loved about building my roadster over a decade ago, is the friendships that are created through the forums and building process. Hope you and Luke (and your father) create memories and a beautiful car to enjoy for years to come!
818 "S"pyder delivered 11/27/20, using 2007 Impreza 2.5l NA donor. Work mostly being done by my son Liam...body work and paint being done by dad (that's me)
MK3.1 #6583RD, built from 2008-2019, sold 11/2011
The culture of an organization starts at the top. You'll find that the FFR employees and customers are devoted to the company, the products and the processes. After building a Mk3 and an 818, I've found that the culture of excellence permeates everywhere because Dave sets the example.
818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).
Inventory is done! A few missing parts that weren't on the POL, but very minor items.
Parts that won't be touched for a while are in the "warehouse" (otherwise known as the game room above the garage). Coupe top is in deep storage in our Barn as we won't need that for quite some time! I had always planned on putting the build on "wheels" to help me roll it around the garage, but after seeing AZPete's detailed description of his dolly, I'll admit I leveraged a lot from his idea!
I also got the engine block back from the machine shop Tuesday, so that "project" needs to happen in parallel with having the kit now. Unfortunately, US Postal has my Triple Bond 1215 floating around their distribution somewhere, so I can't begin mating the block halves that until it arrives. Was shipped 3-day priority 10 days ago already.... In the Holiday Spirit, I'm cutting them a break as I know it has been rough through the holidays.
I posted this in the 818 Engine Forum, but haven't gotten a reply yet. Hoping someone here can help... While I wait on the POL items from FFR, I'm building up my EJ-20 after getting the block and heads back. Most things are clearly called out in the FSM, or are somewhat self-intuitive.
There's a large coolant plug in the bottom of the engine just behind the thermostat that looks like it "should" have an o-ring or gasket, but the FSM makes no mention of it, and the parts diagrams show the plug, but that's all. Same for it's corresponding nipple on the other half that connects to the oil cooler. Do you just use thread sealant or Three Bond on them? Just seems odd??
Folks,
All,
I posted this in the 818 Engine Forum, but haven't gotten a reply yet. Hoping someone here can help... While I wait on the POL items from FFR, I'm building up my EJ-20 after getting the block and heads back. Most things are clearly called out in the FSM, or are somewhat self-intuitive.
There's a large coolant plug in the bottom of the engine just behind the thermostat that looks like it "should" have an o-ring or gasket, but the FSM makes no mention of it, and the parts diagrams show the plug, but that's all. Same for it's corresponding nipple on the other half that connects to the oil cooler. Do you just use thread sealant or Three Bond on them? Just seems odd?? Coolant Plug.jpg
When you buy a new coolant plug from Subaru, it has the green sealant on the threads. I just used Three Bond on my engine.
The Oil galley plugs are similar but they use copper crush washers. Maybe the reason for the difference is the oil will see 100 Psi and the coolant only sees 15 psi.
Bob
Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 01-19-2021 at 02:51 AM.
Sorry I haven't posted for a while. Been working on reassembling the engine, and restoring a lot of the donor hardware, so not very exciting.
I have hit something on the build I'm hoping someone can provide me help with. I went with the Wilwood pedal box, and it required a little sheet metal trimming to get the pistons through the pre-cut holes from FFR (which surprised me but I guess it shouldn't), and then I cut down the piston shafts 1/2" per a lot of other folks recommendations to keep my knees out of my chest!
One question on the Wilwood pedals? FULL travel at this point (no fluid) has it going all the way to where I plan a pedal stop. (last photo) Thus they are still pretty high, but I don't want to cut anymore until I see how much travel I will need with fluid. Any experience, especially with the clutch and the Wilwood cylinder as far as travel goes?
Also related to the Wilwood pedals, I rough placed my steering column in to see if I want to compress it, how high / low I'd like it, etc. Problem is, it comes in contact with the brake pedal? The mounts for the pedal box are set by FFR, so not like I can adjust it. Likewise for the steering column. Enlarging the hole for the grommet is not appealing, as the grommet won't sit nice any longer. I was going to compress the column and fabricate a mounting plate, so I can always move the mounting point over 1/4-1/2" and clear the pedal, but maybe I did something wrong? Anyone else experience this?
Honestly, with the master cylinder shaft lengths, it varies on each build so you should wait until you have fluid in the system to see what your travel turns out to be.
On the steering shaft rubbing the side of the brake pedal, mine does not touch, but it is very close. You may want to sand away some of the brake pedal where it touches or you can dent the steering shaft tube in that area to give clearance. That part of the shaft is hollow and would not be effected by some slight denting.
Only a few items remain, and nothing that will delay me for a LONG while! I've been building up the engine, and while most of it wasn't nearly as bad as I feared, I'm now at a point where I have a LOT of PCV, Vaccum, Coolant, etc hose attach points, and I'm learning that despite all my photos, labelling, etc, there's always a different angle you wish you had! Luckily, the FSM has it called out, as well as the Subaru parts diagrams online.
Now that I have the packaged aluminum, next weekend will be the test of my rotisserie! Hope to just rotate it upside down to install the bottom sheet metal, and coat the bottom with Bed Liner while it's flat and level!
Looks good Rob, are you still going to try the rotisserie for the frame to install under body aluminum?
818 "S"pyder delivered 11/27/20, using 2007 Impreza 2.5l NA donor. Work mostly being done by my son Liam...body work and paint being done by dad (that's me)
MK3.1 #6583RD, built from 2008-2019, sold 11/2011
So, after seeing Michael Camera's "oil canning" in his floor pan, I gave mine a second check as I hadn't experienced any. Turns out that while the driver's side is fine, the passenger side was extremely bad. So before flipping it over to install the bottom aluminum and Rhino Line it, I wanted to take care of the issue. Used the torch method as others had suggested, and while it required a little bit of "chasing", the end result is great! Both sides don't oil can under any circumstances now.
Well, we did the "Big Flip" of the chassis this weekend so I could work on the bottom more easily. Only one minor snag as the engine hoist rolled a bit, and one of the straps on the tractor end of my homemade rotisserie got snagged for a moment. Quickly resolved and the chassis is now firmly upside down on terra firma! Video link at the end.
As I continue to reassemble the engine, despite hundreds of photos, bagging and tagging everything, I find myself not having a clue what goes in the hole on the left cylinder head indicated by the arrow in the picture. As a reminder, we have a 2004 EJ-205 turbo from a WRX.
So, with the help of some folks in the Engine thread, I was able to determine that there was a "plug" for that hole since I don't have AVCS on my engine. "I" never removed it before sending the heads out, so hence having no recollection or record of it. I went back through the box of original parts that were returned to me by the head shop, and sure enough there was the plug!
So, I remember right after I ordered my kit and started reading the build forums, coming across a post by Fletch where he said "the front tank is in, and it's not coming out"! I thought to myself that was a bit odd as one would assume if you put a tank in, you can take it out....
Well... tonight we installed our front mounted tank with a big shout out to Bob_n_Cincy for his help and advise along the way, and I can say that there are no truer words to sum it up than how Fletch did in his original post!! :-) I love how it is mounted, and I think it will provide us a lot more options in the cockpit, but after the bottom panel goes on tomorrow it is NEVER coming out.
Did it while we had the car upside down to finish the bottom, and I think that made it much easier as in that position all the fastening was on "top". Hope to prime the bottom tomorrow, and get the bed liner on it Sunday. Then we can flip it back over and finish the four corners to get her to roll...
Big weekend for the build! We dropped the engine in. Still have a bunch of hoses to finish off on the engine, but wanted it in so we could see where things would actually be located (and relocated)! Didn't exactly plan it, but love the way the header wrap compliments the "Burnt Bronze" Cerakote I used on the oil pan and valve covers.
While I'm really happy with my rear firewall, I made a labor intensive mistake of using my normal drill template with 3" spacing to drill the holes in the pieces. As I used 0.125 aluminum, the spacing could have easily been 6" and would have cut my work with rivnuts in half! Live and learn....
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Originally Posted by roadrashrob
I was thinking "rear" of the two IN the transmission. The trans shop actually called it something different, but I forget what they called it.
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