Eaton's 818C Build - Power Window Modifications

[lance corsi]

Looks good. If I ever build another kit car, I would prefer to add tabs to rivet my panels to rather than drill holes in my chassis members. Too late now.

[Frank818]

Wow, what a great place to work on a car!

[Mark Eaton]

I wouldn't say this part is intimidating but very tedious. I printed up the 213 page factory shop manual from an online source and I have been studying it. It reminds me of neuro anatomy during medical school, everything makes sense, its just alot. Planning to follow Larry's Harness diet method from K3LAG.



I had him start deluming the ABS system first because we will be deleting it. We tag every wire that he accidentally cuts, tedious ...

[Mark Eaton]

Back in July I realized our Chassis came with no upper harness mounting tabs. I contacted FFR, they sent them out and we welded them in! I really love to weld..









It was a nice break from that wiring harness. I am on trauma call on Labor day but hoping to under coat the body panels with truck bedliner on Saturday and Sunday, and get these brackets painted. Then back to the wiring harness...

[Mark Eaton]

I'm feeling a bit better about the wiring harness. I had to take the thing over completely without Nick. I just need to get my head around the whole thing and figure it out. Also, at 16 his eye hand coordination still needs development and I was spending too much time repairing the wires he would sever while stripping the factory loom.



Using the 200+ page factory manual I carefully labeled all connections before "dieting". These twist on labels I bought have been very useful. Also, as others have posted, Mechie's thread is priceless.

[GoDadGo]

All I can say is you all are braver than me.
Love the 818, but it is over my head.
Good Luck & Happy Wiring!

[autostang]

It might be worth adding in an additional fuse block to easily wire new circuits to in the future. I have my car torn apart for some mods right now and am planning to add something to clean up the various wiring I've added over the years (fog lights, footwell lighting, seat heaters, etc). It would be easier to do the first time through! Not a must do by any means, but something to think about.

[Mark Eaton]

It might be worth adding in an additional fuse block to easily wire new circuits to in the future. I have my car torn apart for some mods right now and am planning to add something to clean up the various wiring I've added over the years (fog lights, footwell lighting, seat heaters, etc). It would be easier to do the first time through! Not a must do by any means, but something to think about.

Thanks, I was planning something like that I did it on the MK4. Need circuits for heater, windshield wiper, rear camera, stereo, Nick wants undercarriage lights...

[Mark Eaton]

Nothing spectacular here, perfect for a 16yo and his dad to install.









There are two extra 3/8" coolant openings on the bottom of the radiator. I think they are for a AT oil cooler but I have no idea what they went to on our donor which had manual transmission . I just joined them with a hose, hopefully that will be ok...

[Rob T]

Nice progress. Think about orientation on the hose clamps on the side of the car. Over time, I've had to snug mine up a bit and the orientation makes all the difference when the body is on.

[MSumners]

Awesome, good to see still plugging away

[lance corsi]

I’m using the spring steel type. Nothing to tighten. Always snug.

[RPGs818SNA]

Impressive progress, Mark and team!

Here’s another tip regarding the coolant connections to the side pipes and the engine return. I used the thin spacers inside the short connector hoses to adapt from the corrugated pipes to the side pipes like it appears you did. All five instances developed slow leaks that no amount of tightening the worm clamps or even doubling them would fix.

Upon disassembly, I realized that the thin spacers are covered with a rubberized fabric with an overlapping spiral pattern. That step at the overlaps provides a small path for the coolant to escape. Aggravating!

leaky hose spacer.jpg

While your system is dry, you might want to replace the thin spacers with ones that are smooth on the outside, or at least apply some sort of sealant between the hoses. I replaced all of those joints with segments of upper and lower radiator hoses and have no leaks now.

Enjoy your build,
RPG

[Mark Eaton]

At long last, after just over 2 years we have achieved "first Start"!!!

https://youtu.be/mWXmFuIi7ug

https://youtu.be/Vkup0suPX60

Apparently, filling the cooling system in the 818 is tricky. It appears that the experienced and dedicated 818 builders and race car driver types recommend a "VCP" modification to purge the cooling system of all air. It requires drilling a hole in the top of the engine and placing a brass barb to get rid of the air bubble. A hose then runs from the barb to the expansion tank. I am not ready to take this leap for a couple of reasons. No 1, I have a non turbo engine with no expansion tank. No 2, I don't like brass and really don't like trying to join discrepant metals. My most concerning issue is that I don't have a recovery plan when I screw that up.

What I do have is a 10,000-lb lift and the ability to hang this new born buggy upside down and spank all the air bubble out of her!!



If this doesn't work I'll screw some kind of "brass barb" into the top of my engine...

[lpmagruder]

I learned about the VCP mod after I had already had the car mostly assembled and it would have been a huge pain to get access to that part. I ended up doing something like what you're doing there, I alternated lifting the front and rear ~4ft or so and even after that there were still some bubbles. I ended up having to slightly pressurize the system and crack the top engine line and let the air escape. Not the most elegant solution but it worked and I've been driving it a while now with no overheating issues.

[Dave 53]

I was looking forward to pictures of the car upside down to bleed the air.

I've got a very slight coolant leak that only leaks when it's California cold (40's - not often). Maybe a tablespoon of coolant leaks onto the driver's side floor before everything is warmed up. I'm certain it's the hose clamp that ties the metal side pipe coolant line to the front of the car just behind the front wheel. Why haven't I fixed it? Because it will require taking the door, front fender and side panel off to turn a hose clamp screw half a turn and it only leaks a couple of times a year. Seeing your car without the body reminds me that I wish I paid extra special attention to those hose clamps that are inaccessible with the body on. Someday I'll fix it with a Gates PowerGrip.

[Mark Eaton]

Two weekends ago we spent all day Saturday dialing in our alignment. Sunday we wrapped the exhaust manifold in titanium and did some "go-karting". On Nick's 8th lap of our 0.5 mile industrial block he was too aggressive with the throttle on a turn went into a 180* spin and went sideways into the curb. The car wound up backwards on top of the curb. Impact was on the left side, left front wheel and tire were irrevocably damaged, the left rear wheel had a chunk missing and knocked into a positive camber situation. Here's a photo...



The control arms and links did not appear bent. The CV axle definitely wasn't right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3xnJFfLX4

I thought maybe it was bent, but now I don't think so.



inner CV joint was trashed



I think the outer joint is ok



My initial emotions were 40% very annoyed and 60% concern for my son and choices I have made as a father. He was in full 5 point racing harness but the MDS was not in a position he could reach, no fire extinguisher and no inertia switch. Nick's response was that of bewilderment. Over the last two weeks I have resolved my personal issues as best I can and am moving on.

Regarding my son, my number one goal at this point is to figure out how to get him professional driving instruction on a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Regarding the 818, I am planning to replace the inner CV joint, redo the alignment and get it back out there. I am wondering if there is any utility to replacing the entire axle despite the fact that it looks ok? The transmission appears to be undamaged.

[Hobby Racer]

Regarding the 818, I am planning to replace the inner CV joint, redo the alignment and get it back out there. I am wondering if there is any utility to replacing the entire axle despite the fact that it looks ok? The transmission appears to be undamaged.

Mark - I'm glad to here your son is ok, that's the most important thing. As far as the car goes, there is definitely more damage than just the CV joint. For the rear tire to be angled like that the suspension must have been bent in some places. You will need to remove all the trailing arms to look for damage and inspect the frame mounting points for cracks and bent tabs. Also look closely at the hub for cracks and the FFR mounting brackets that connect it to the trailing arms.

Let us know what you find.

[idf]

Agree that there must be damage to suspension or its pickup points. More importantly though support your plan to get your son professional driving instruction, preferably in a car with similar power and handling characteristics. I enrolled both of my sons in 3-4 day schools which resulted in obtaining SCCA competition licenses. Not inexpensive, but in my mind well worth the cost.

[Mark Eaton]

Thanks for the input guys. Hopefully this weekend we will have time to take the whole thing apart and inspect all the trailing arms/control arms/links and contact points on the chassis. I'll also look closely at the hub.

idf, should I look up SCCA competition school?

[J R Jones]

Mark, inspect the upright as well. They can bend.

Elkhart Lake (not your area) has all manner of driver training, four and two wheel. Check local tracks, they try to fill their schedule with all types of events to cover the overhead.
Marque clubs (Porsche, Shelby, Corvette) offer training days at some tracks.
jim

[Mark Eaton]

Mark, inspect the upright as well. They can bend.

Elkhart Lake (not your area) has all manner of driver training, four and two wheel. Check local tracks, they try to fill their schedule with all types of events to cover the overhead.
Marque clubs (Porsche, Shelby, Corvette) offer training days at some tracks.
jim

Thanks, will do

[idf]

The link below contains the SCCA sanctioned schools. One of my sons did the Bondurant (now Radford) school near Phoenix. It was excellent. The other Jim Russell at Mont Tremblant. I had done Jim Russell at Laguna Seca years ago. Both were also excellent. Skip Barber is one of the old stand bys, no longer owned by Skip, but retaining many of the original instructors and several tracks around the country. I don't know anything about the ProDrive school, but it would seem convenient to you. All of the schools offer a variety of programs from teen driving to full competition. I'd go for the latter. Make sure there is skid pad time.

https://www.scca.com/pages/driver-s-school-w-table

[Mark Eaton]

So we took the whole thing apart and inspected all contact points, all control arms and links, the knuckle, rotor, hub. Here are some boring photos:









Basically everything looks ok, the rotor and hub spin nicely with no wobble. Nothing looks bent or cracked.

I don't know what else to do except put it all back together when my new inner CV joint arrives.

[Hobby Racer]

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

[Ajzride]

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

Is it possible it's an optical illusion in the picture? The more I stare at it, the more it confuses me.

[J R Jones]

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

I agree with John, however if you rolled the car you would see wobble. With similar thinking in the last year, a track car broke the rear axle flange off due to the nut loosening and metal fatigue. Look for axle flange run-out too.
jim

[Mark Eaton]

Is the rear rim bent? Something is causing that bad camber angle. Was it like that before?

I took the wheels to Les Schwab. The front rim was cracked, rear has a little chunk out of it but it's OK. i agree, it is bizarre but was not an optical illusion. I'll upload some more videos...

[Mark Eaton]

I agree with John, however if you rolled the car you would see wobble. With similar thinking in the last year, a track car broke the rear axle flange off due to the nut loosening and metal fatigue. Look for axle flange run-out too.
jim

Thanks, this gives me a reason to purchase a dial indicator!

[Mark Eaton]

This is a short video of the catywhampous left rear wheel now in the right front and is spinning pretty nicely

https://youtube.com/shorts/IN3dOIXzOVQ

Here is the rotor

https://youtube.com/shorts/XygCJ2Rrfgw

and the hub

https://youtu.be/SN43JpKJ_KY

[Hobby Racer]

Videos are marked private so they can not be seen

[J R Jones]

Mark, As John states the videos do not play here, but I assume they do not document a fault. In a worse case you may have frame damage and measuring for symmetry is a way to find it.
I suggest establishing the frame centerline based on the main rectangle (behind the cockpit) and similar structure at the front of the cockpit. Drop plumb bobs from the frame centers.
I like lasers and would project a beam aft from the frame references. Measure your lower link frame mounts right and left to the laser centerline.

If they are not the same, you may have twist as well as yaw displacement.
Project a horizontal laser plane under the car. Adjust the frame to be parallel to the beam at the bottom of the main rectangle.
Measure from the beam up to the lower link mounts left and right, again looking for symmetry.
jim

[Mark Eaton]

Videos are marked private so they can not be seen

sorry, I just made them public

[Mark Eaton]

Mark, As John states the videos do not play here, but I assume they do not document a fault. In a worse case you may have frame damage and measuring for symmetry is a way to find it.
I suggest establishing the frame centerline based on the main rectangle (behind the cockpit) and similar structure at the front of the cockpit. Drop plumb bobs from the frame centers.
I like lasers and would project a beam aft from the frame references. Measure your lower link frame mounts right and left to the laser centerline.

If they are not the same, you may have twist as well as yaw displacement.
Project a horizontal laser plane under the car. Adjust the frame to be parallel to the beam at the bottom of the main rectangle.
Measure from the beam up to the lower link mounts left and right, again looking for symmetry.
jim

Ok, I'll try this

[Mark Eaton]

Jim, I did it. I dropped two plumb bobs from the front and rear frame centers of the cockpit. You can see them both lite up by the laser below.



I measured to the lower link frame mounts to the laser center. The rear rectangle is off by 3/32" and the front is off by 1/8". the interesting thing that in the rear it is shorter on the right side and the front is shorter on the left.

I then did the horizontal line and found no difference anywhere!

Lastly, I just measured from the roll bar mount back to the opposite further rear part of the chassis. No difference!!

Not sure what to make of all this, I think the frame is probably bent a little. My measuring technique is certainly is not perfect, however, I definitely got that laser spot on those plumb bobs as you can see in the photo.

[Rob T]

I am curious, as we have no "before" and "after", what would we expect the tolerance to be on a fabricated frame like this? What is our likely measurement error, even with the laser technique? This is a great technical challenge for a home shop and I am trying to learn....

[J R Jones]

Mark, I am a bit confused by your reference to "rectangle". What I prefer is measuring from the inner link rod pivot bosses to the laser line. Measure from the holes not tubing.
Given interfering parts, you may have to drop plumb lines from the pivots to get straight measurements to the centerline.

Also look for the weak links in the chain of parts:
The FFR adapter at the top of the upright could be bent.
The through bolt at the lower pivot of the upright could be bent.
jim

[J R Jones]

I am curious, as we have no "before" and "after", what would we expect the tolerance to be on a fabricated frame like this? What is our likely measurement error, even with the laser technique? This is a great technical challenge for a home shop and I am trying to learn....

The design document of an assembly like the frame has datum points like the centerline for reference.
Every data point is referenced to the datum and has a priority. Some are considered "critical" like suspension mounts. With cost and quality in mind, some tolerances like body mounts, are loose. Critical data points are identified on the document for "quality control" to pay particular attention too. If that happens..... I would consider plus or minus 0.020 for the mounts in question here but only FFR knows.
jim

[Just puttering]

https://www.scca.com/pages/street-survival

Here is a school for young adults. If it’s not full you have one in April in Portland.

[Shawn818c]

Highly unlikely the frame was square to begin with.