1/4 scale model feedback

[RM1SepEx]

I wish that I could have been there in person

I think that Xabier's car looks the best in the flesh so to speak. It can be out there as the most likely to have a large volume as a roadster that looks to be very easy to add a soft top. It's also very hot/smokin as shown as the "r" model, the dedicated track car.

[ScoobySnack818]

After watching the ustream live feed, I liked Xabier's design or rodney's. However rodney's was 3D printed directly from CAD and the rear track width as well as a few other things would probably have to be tweaked. I was not a huge fan of the silver one (Jim's design) both in 1/4 scale as well as the full size. I don't think it is enough of a departure from what is currently out there. I saw toyota MR2 and Murtaya and it didn't suit me.

It was clear that FFR is releasing either an affordable roaster (no top yet) or a track car first. But FFR's cars are quite capable on the track so a track-ready street roadster is probably on the way. And my vote goes to Xabier's design for that embodiment.

I will however probably wait for a gen2 or engineered targa top with windows to make my purchase.

-Justin

[SccrMan13]

I agree xabiers with a soft or even hard top would be easy and excellent looking. I say the first one needs to be a road car. Wish he would have talked about the drivetrains possibilities.

[RM1SepEx]

I should have added a 4 choice survey with the posting.... my bad

The FFR body is too derivitive tho I could live with it. The blue car is too far "out there" and is a hard top, the most difficult and expensive to do.

The black car has a great "***" but the front isn't awe inspiring, it was hard to see detail on the video tho

Only Xabier's appears to use the chassis as it sits with a roll bar, albeit narrower inside of the hoop behind the seats.

I see Xabier's as dual purpose, track and soft top roadster. Add a cheap vinyl top and windows for emergencies only and it is very streetable and inexpensive to build, maximizing market share. It translates easily to an "r" track model as well

It also has an original exotic body that just screams at you where the others all have major areas that need work.

[Doc_FFR]

However rodney's was 3D printed directly from CAD and the rear track width as well as a few other things would probably have to be tweaked.

I'm more than a little worried about this. Olmos's design is excellent, is it really necessary to adjust it?

[Pandemic Power]

Only Xabier's appears to use the chassis as it sits with a roll bar, albeit narrower inside of the hoop behind the seats.

I see Xabier's as dual purpose, track and soft top roadster. Add a cheap vinyl top and windows for emergencies only and it is very streetable and inexpensive to build, maximizing market share. It translates easily to an "r" track model as well

It also has an original exotic body that just screams at you where the others all have major areas that need work.

I agree with you on your thoughts of Xaviers design, I think it's the most road ready design for the street in terms of look and functionality with putting on a hard/soft top. It's not the most aggressive design, but I could see a track version with some wider flared fenders to allow some wider wheels and really give it a more aggressive look.

[VTX]

I posted this in the other thread, but since this appears to be the official feedback thread I'll add my feedback here as well:

1. The first place car - I like it a lot more seeing it in the scale model. I'm not sure about the side vents though. They just don't seem to match the rest of the car. Too curved and "swooping" in my opinion. If those could be fixed I think it's a winner.

2. Xabier's design - Was also very nice looking. It looks the most polished to me. Although seeing the front end in the video that's the only thing I'm not crazy about. The vents almost look too big (tall) and makes the front end just look like it would be creating needless air resistance (strictly from a looks perspective, I'm no expert on vehicle aerodynamics). If it were up to me I'd see if I could make the vents a little shorter to make the front of the the car just a little sleeker and "faster" looking.

3. Olmos design - I seem to be in the minority on this, but I really just don't like this design. It just doesn't look fast to me. It looks kind of clunky IMO. I think it's the front end that does it. It's almost like the hood got chopped off and there's just a big flat front end or something. I like the aggressiveness of the wide rear end, but overall I just really don't like it.

4. FFR Design - I really don't like this design at all. I agree with some of the others that say it resembles an MR2, and that is not a good thing. The front end also just looks strange to me with the one small opening in the middle.

Sorry to be critical on the last two. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but just want to give my honest opinion. If one of the first two could be tweaked just slightly, as mentioned above, I think those are your winners.

[Silvertop]

This is also a double post, because it fits in both places.

After seeing the webcast (great job btw), the Xabier design still remains my clear favorite. Based on the premise that there would be three cars built -- Roadster, Track and MPG, here are my thoughts:

Roadster -- the Xabier design, preferably with a removable and on-board stowable Targa Top. I would also consider building it with a soft top if I couldn't have the Targa, or if the Targa could not be stowed on board. I might also consider the Olmos design constructed as a Roadster or Targa if available. The in-house design is very nice, but it just doesn't scream at me

Track Car -- We haven't really seen a track design yet, though the Xabier would be the odds on favorite there. The Olmos design or the in-house Concept could also serve.

MPG Car -- Probably the Nouphone Bansasi design, but constructed either as a hardtop coupe or a Targa. Olmos design might work really well for that too, if the aerodynamics are as good as they look.

FFR should definitely build the Roadster first, no matter which body they choose for it, because it likely has the highest sales potential. Neither the MPG nor the track car are likely to be on my personal build list, so I'll avoid offering an opinion about which of those to build first.

[thane]

I think that the Nuophone design hits the best balance of a presenting a striking, cohesive design statement. I think that Xabier's front end nears perfection. I think Olmos's design is awesome, but I worry about it having lasting appeal. I think the FFR design is great, except for the front end, which, to my eyes, looks too much like a product from a major manufacturer. I think all of the designs would make me happy, if I got to see them in my garage.

[scartaan]

Agree with VTX. Xabier's design is the best proposal so far. The FFR design is OK, but seems to have a disconnect at the rear of the front fender. Another thought is that the red car incorporates the roll bar. None of the designs,however appear to incorporate the diagonal frame tube at the door opening. Here is an opportunity to make this part of the design, more of a door in a triangular shape making it lighter, and providing more space for a vent to the rear fender.
I also want to add my vote for a Targa top. This would make the car so much more appealing.

[jkrueger]

Nice webcast Dave. Here is my input. If I'm going to build this car it needs a top. I've build a roadster and I've found that after having it for over a year now I do not drive it as much as a I though I would. Part of the reason why I think this is that to have a daily driver you need to be out of the weather more. Wether it is hot, cold, rainy or snow. Or just getting out of the wind.

I like the idea that it needs to aerodynamic (for top end speed and fuel mileage). My use for this kind of car would be high performance street car that I can drive to work everyday and can be used on the track for track days.

JC

[Draco-REX]

I'm all for the blue design (Rodney Olmos?) It has the greatest visual impact and just plain looks mean. I want my 818 to have a Wow-factor. Sensible designs are for boring manufacturers. The blue model looks like an X-bow that's been tamed, albeit slightly. Olmos' design with a removable Tara would be a 100% in my book. But a non-removable top would only drop that to a 95%. So, assuming that the Eco coupe is yet to be designed, I'd vote for Olmos' first, and Xabier's second.

The silver car is way too tame. Every time I see it, I think: S2000 with a body kit. I'm sorry, I was hoping I'd like it with better angles, but I just don't.

The "black" or gunmetal car is also too tame, imo. One thing that really bugs me about it are the aero cowls behind the headrests. They extend too far back. I usually like those, but only when they leave some decklid.

[GUNS]

I'm all for the blue design (Rodney Olmos?) It has the greatest visual impact and just plain looks mean. I want my 818 to have a Wow-factor. Sensible designs are for boring manufacturers. The blue model looks like an X-bow that's been tamed, albeit slightly. Olmos' design with a removable Tara would be a 100% in my book. But a non-removable top would only drop that to a 95%. So, assuming that the Eco coupe is yet to be designed, I'd vote for Olmos' first, and Xabier's second.

The silver car is way too tame. Every time I see it, I think: S2000 with a body kit. I'm sorry, I was hoping I'd like it with better angles, but I just don't.

The "black" or gunmetal car is also too tame, imo. One thing that really bugs me about it are the aero cowls behind the headrests. They extend too far back. I usually like those, but only when they leave some decklid.

I completely agree with you. Think about seeing Olmos's car in your review mirror on the track and then blowing by you and thinking WTF was that? I think the response to Xabier's car in the same scenario would be "oh, that's pretty." Either one of those two would be great, but I'm more partial the completely unique design of olmos's car.

[Silvertop]

I completely agree with you. Think about seeing Olmos's car in your review mirror on the track and then blowing by you and thinking WTF was that? I think the response to Xabier's car in the same scenario would be "oh, that's pretty." Either one of those two would be great, but I'm more partial the completely unique design of olmos's car.

Me, I like "WTF was that Oh So Pretty Thing that Just Blew By Me?". But the Olmos car is definitely very cool. Though I think it looks better as a roadster.

[David Hodgkins]

[Nelff]

IMO..

Red car:
I STILL hate the front scoops. Carbon fiber splitter is good. Dislike the headlights. Wheel arches are good. Side is umm, bland. Still hate the droopy butt.

Blue car:
I friggen love the fenders!!! Smooth wheel bulges into a flat strip that circles the wheel. Perfect! The Coke bottle shape is as sexy as it gets. I like short overhangs but, geez.... I still don't like the headlight/taillight panels.

Black car. It was my favorite to begin with. But, looking at the model and the vid it's kinda plain. The rear fenders should be pushed out and the 'lip' that flattens out and runs to the edge of the tire removed. Having tacked on 'lips' never looks right. That said, I think it's the most marketable of the four.

Silver:
I know that it's what F5 put together, But... The styling of the front looks like designs from different cars tacked on to a body. Someone said that it looks like a "body kit" The grill opening shape doesn't flow with the hard edged vents in the top of the hood. The side scoop at the front would work but the curb dragging air dam has to go. If you want an air dam/splitter, PLEASE make it replaceable and not part of the body. The styling of the fender lips looks like they was taken off of the Cobra. Seeing how those fender lips were originally a tacked on modification to fit larger tires, I'm not seeing why they should be used on something that is supposed to be a modern car. And looking at the full size car, the fender lips look even more pronounced like a body kit.

Bottom line:
Wide fender bulges are good. Take the fenders off of the blue car, put them on the black car. Or, if it looks like a MR2 or an S2000 with a body kit, I'll keep driving my M3, riding my Harley and build a F5 Cobra.

[wooward]

I have many opinions on all the cars but for now I will only address Xabier's roll bar spoiler thing. In the pic it's not so pronounced because the seats head rests are in the way. In the model, it's just hanging out there all odd looking. I wish that bar was more like the other cars with the deck lid headrest look. As is, Im not sure if I would buy the Xabier body at all. I'll have to see more pics

[apexanimal]

so dave... is there a way we could see what olmos' design looks like when actually dimensionally accurate?

that might help to clear up a lot of the decision-making stuff for a lot who are going between his design and the others...

[riptide motorsport]

Xabier, Nuophone, Vman!,Rodney....in that order.

[Gary in NJ]

I've been following the design of the 818 since almost day one. It was exciting to see the webcast this morning. My first impression; Factory Five is a class organization. I enjoyed the passion and excitement of the presenter (who I assume is the owner).

Regarding the cars, I've always liked Xabier's design. His track version is just perfect, however I don't drive on a track. I still prefer his road version over the others. Of all of the cars it's the most integrated design.

The blue car has awesome proportions, until you look at the glass area. The roof/windshield/C-Pillar looks to be a kluge. I think the fender proportions front to rear are outstanding. Every time I saw the car I found myself judging if the front track was wider then the rear and always came to the same conclusion that they are the same. But the fact that the design forced me to check the proportions was provoking.

The black car was just a bit boring. It's nice looking, but I want something more then nice.

The home-grown design is also a good effort, but I don't think the 1/4 scale model did it justice. The half-sided car looked more pleasing then the model.

But I keep coming back to Xabier's red car. I've never wanted to own/build a kit car (for more then 30 seconds) until I saw this design. I've built an airplane, restored cars and motorcycles - and now I want to build Xabier's 818.

[b1u3]

I'm all for the blue design (Rodney Olmos?) It has the greatest visual impact and just plain looks mean. I want my 818 to have a Wow-factor. Sensible designs are for boring manufacturers. The blue model looks like an X-bow that's been tamed, albeit slightly. Olmos' design with a removable Tara would be a 100% in my book. But a non-removable top would only drop that to a 95%. So, assuming that the Eco coupe is yet to be designed, I'd vote for Olmos' first, and Xabier's second.

The silver car is way too tame. Every time I see it, I think: S2000 with a body kit. I'm sorry, I was hoping I'd like it with better angles, but I just don't.

The "black" or gunmetal car is also too tame, imo. One thing that really bugs me about it are the aero cowls behind the headrests. They extend too far back. I usually like those, but only when they leave some decklid.

Well said. Agree 100% on all points.

[slopoke]

I'd like to see more photos of all four models ... just can't seem to get all the subtle details from just these four pics .... need lots of different angles and closeups. They all have merit, but will probably all need tweaking. IAH, my favorite wasn't picked to be a model (sigh)....

[kach22i]

Kind of, sort of, almost puts together many parts of my favorite cars together for it's own look. Not a bullseye, but a high point scorer.


Aggressive in an almost brutal way, sort of Transformer toy looking. It's loud and proud, just not sure what of.


The most refined, developed and sophisticated of the lot. It's not complex, nor does it try too hard for attention, all good things in my book.


Sorry to say, it's just over worked. Has a few things going for it, but fails to "hold it together".


Overall they are all nice, but not something I'd give my old Porsche up for, nor plans to upgrade to a better Porsche.

I'm taken back how they all succeed in obtaining a sporty stance (a good thing), and that they are all rather stocky or chunky looking (both good and bad). None of my designs really did the same, perhaps it was the lower belt lines and taller windshields at play.

Nouphone Bansasi's design is the least kit car looking, and the most professional looking in my opinion. It is however the least likely to grab you by the nuggets and scream at you. This is just my opinion, weigh it as you will.

[kitcarj]

Dave, Maybe I like my kids too much but I won't be selling any of them for any of these designs.

I am still a little sad-They are ALL too safe except the Olmos design which is unfortunately unsafe in a cartoonish way.

1.My favorite would be the silver car- It would be helpful to have the intakes blacked out to make the character of the car pop a little more. Hints of Carrera GT which I remember loving when it came out but now days seems kind of tame.

2.Xabier's car. Still looks closer to a Miata then an Elise and I was hoping for something more exotic than an Elise. Or at least as exotic. The roll bar seems too rounded but that may just be from the high angle of the pictures. Track version with rear spoiler may help this move up on my list some. Even if it was self defeating to have it on the high MPG version I would keep that.

3-4: both no go for me
If the rear on Olmos's is narrowed I think it would ruin the only thing that makes it stand out. But I think it still looks like a Camaro would on the Saturday morning cartoon where the cars talk and are the characters.
The black car actually looks worse then I thought it would especially the mouth in front is too cutsie and is boring overall.

Possible winner-swap Olmos's front end out for Mario Morra's.

I would rather have a MK4 despite there abundance or a Type 65. Maybe a GTM

I should add: The silver and red cars are beautiful but just not poster on the wall material. They are what you hope to be able to buy when you go to the car lot of a major manufacturer to buy a car.

[Tpa65cpe]

All I can say is WOW!! Love the blue design for a daily driver or track car 1st and then the red one for a convertible model the 2 best looking ones IMHO. Hope to see more pics in the future as this concept developes. Great job to all the people involved in this project and I know that FFR will not dissapoint!!!

[GS guy]

I must be one of the few who like the FFR design car. I think it ranks neck and neck with Xabier's. It does need some tweaking though - get rid of some of the business and "body kit" look to the lower front facia and create a horozontal trim line that defines upper and lower front end - thus allowing a natural separation point and replacable lower facia for repairs or alternate versions. Trim the cats eye ears on the headlights a bit, and need to do something with the "afterthought" looking wheel lip openings. These either need to go with full-on flares (930 style would rock!) or stretched fenders more like Xabier's (maybe less drag, but more bland). Oh - the "hump-back" rear could be done away with too, just doesn't add to the car IMHO and looking a bit "me too!". With these mild tweaks I think this one would be a winner - in my eye at least.

Xabier's care has the most finished look, but I just can get past the massive gaping "maul" openings in the front end. What's the purpose of these? The radiator certainly doesn't need that much opening - they just seem like huge drag inducing parachutes on the front of the car. Otherwise, the overall shape and design looks very pleasing to the eye.

The blue car is just too Mario-bros/cartoonish looking, and the black car too muck like an S2000 - at least in the front 3/4 views. Nice rear styling though.

Beautiful job on the modeling though, and enjoyed the video presentation. I hope you guys decide to present more videos as the car progresses.

[Jammin]

Dave
First off, the 818 will be my third FFR car and I can not say enough about the FFR experience. Building a FFR car is enjoyable, driving them is a thrill, and the people you meet along the way are friendships that will last a life time.
That being said here are my thoughts on the 818. In reading this forum there is a large number of people that want a car that can be driven in all weather. I feel there is a large market for this car, but a majority of the people are looking at this car as a daily driver, not a toy, or race car. With that being said the car should be designed with the thought of having a optional top that can be stored in the car, such as a corvette. What good is a hard top on a daily driver if you cannot keep it in the car, or takes two people to remove becuase it is so big, and creates a storage problem in the garage.

On Jims car the top is to open and a removable top would be huge. I think it would look like a Cobra with a soft top on it. And lets be honest, a soft top on a Cobra kills the look of the car. Also the hard top would be so big you could not store it in the car.

Xabier's does offer a possiblity for a hard top that could be stored in the trunk. If the car where to have a glass insert between the 2 humps and a small hard top between the windshield and the back humps, and power windows you would have a four seasons cockpit. If there is a trunk up front, all of these componets should fit in there (they would be small). Just think of all the customers you would get selling a four season car with a removable storable top, the performace, and about 1/3 the cost of a new corvette.

So Dave, what are your thoughts on the points I brought up?

[kach22i]

Based on people's comments in several threads, the poll, and my own observations, likes and dislikes I went ahead and tried my hand at a slight modification to X's car. This is just one idea, and illustrated in a rather crude fashion, sorry I don't know Photoshop.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...2i/Automobile/




The gaping air catcher of a catfish mouth is gone, but some of the aggressive chin spoiler flaring is retained.

What do you think?

[2KWIK4U]

Wow that made a big difference.

[coolbluelb]

Love the Olmos, but not as much as I did with the original headlights from the submission.

[Silvertop]

Based on people's comments in several threads, the poll, and my own observations, likes and dislikes I went ahead and tried my hand at a slight modification to X's car. This is just one idea, and illustrated in a rather crude fashion, sorry I don't know Photoshop.

The gaping air catcher of a catfish mouth is gone, but some of the aggressive chin spoiler flaring is retained.

What do you think?

I LIKE it. Of course, I have no issue with the "gaping air catcher catfish mouth" either. I'd buy this car either way. But if the change made the car more marketable, allowing it to go into production -- I'd say Go For It.

[VTX]

Based on people's comments in several threads, the poll, and my own observations, likes and dislikes I went ahead and tried my hand at a slight modification to X's car. This is just one idea, and illustrated in a rather crude fashion, sorry I don't know Photoshop.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...2i/Automobile/




The gaping air catcher of a catfish mouth is gone, but some of the aggressive chin spoiler flaring is retained.

What do you think?

I don't like that you got rid of the "brake duct" openings (I'm assuming that's what they are). I think the center opening just needs to be shorter and really the entire hood in the center could almost be just slightly pushed down a bit.

[evo818]

you don't need a 12" x 6" opening to feed a brake duct. Just a simple 3" round opening is more than enough to get the necessary air to cool them. I think the sides do look better like this and I agree sloping the hood down more and making the center opening smaller would finish it.

[ScottKoschwitz]

kach22i, I think it's a good improvement. The original is over the top (it looks like it's trying too hard), and I doubt it's functionality. My sense is that the size of the openings you have shown would be sufficient for cooling.

I see an interesting thread running among the potential customers for this car. Some want an exotic on the cheap that will attract a lot of attention on the street, and tend to lean towards Rodney's design.

Me, I'm looking a fantastic performance car that I can build myself cheaper than I can buy a used Lotus Elise. I'm more interested in the car's performance than public reaction. As long as it is well-engineered, a ball to drive, and has decent lines, I'm happy. I don't intend to enter car shows with it. I don't care if anyone else thinks my car is cool, points as I drive down the street, or tries to take cell phone pictures. Frankly, after hearing my friend's experience with his Elise, I'm pretty sure I DON'T want that.

Dave said he wanted to design a car that would set people's hair on fire. That a great goal, but in reality, you can't design a car that will set everyone's hair on fire, because everybody has different tastes. What sets my hair on fire is the concept of this car: a giant-killer you can build and customize yourself for under $25,000. To me, the body is secondary to that. For those who want that look-at-me car, don't forget that if you have a car with a good design, you can make it look as wild as you want.

[VTX]

you don't need a 12" x 6" opening to feed a brake duct. Just a simple 3" round opening is more than enough to get the necessary air to cool them. I think the sides do look better like this and I agree sloping the hood down more and making the center opening smaller would finish it.

I understand you don't need that large of an opening, but for me it's not about need. It's about looks. I think they probably could be a little smaller than they are, but I'm not a big fan of almost completely eliminating them. Look at the front of a 911 turbo or the 918. That's what I think looks good.

[olpro]

Kach22i "Based on people's comments in several threads, the poll, and my own observations, likes and dislikes I went ahead and tried my hand at a slight modification to X's car. This is just one idea, and illustrated in a rather crude fashion, sorry I don't know Photoshop."

Big improvement. Good call.

Why wasn't this done a couple of months ago?

[RLHornbeck]

After taking some time to mull over the designs I thought I would comment from my perspective which was hit on by Jammin

“That being said here are my thoughts on the 818. In reading this forum there is a large number of people that want a car that can be driven in all weather. I feel there is a large market for this car, but a majority of the people are looking at this car as a daily driver, not a toy, or race car. With that being said the car should be designed with the thought of having a optional top that can be stored in the car, such as a corvette. What good is a hard top on a daily driver if you cannot keep it in the car, or takes two people to remove becuase it is so big, and creates a storage problem in the garage.”

Having a large truck that I drive for my construction business and my wife has the obligatory station wagon for family duties leaves a void where a fun toy should be. The use of the “toy” must integrate well with life. Garages can be used for a build but then seem to go back to life, I have time to drive today so take the “toy” but then a customer calls and I must divert for work, now I am panicking about the evening rain showers they have called for. For myself and those I have talked to about this car the capability of being a daily driver with a roof and windows is a must and is greatly lacking in the kit car market.
Background done, onto my thoughts on the four great car designs.

FFR’s Silver design: The design looks as though the best parts of many entries are being incorporated into a single design. This design has potential but needs to be refined. It needs to separate itself from the strong resemblance of the MR2 front and Porsche Carrera GT rear.

Olmas’s Blue coupe: This is the boldest design to make the top three. The problem with this is people immediately form a love or hate relationship with the car. This quickly polarizes potential buyers.

Nouphone’s Black roadster: The subtle lines, would make a great next Honda S2000. The feel of a great production car, but not the wow factor needed to call attention to the car and therefore FF for sales.

Xabiers Red car. This design has seemed to be the best overall finisher in the forum responses if not a first pick a strong second. This in my option would also be the easiest design to have a roadster, track, soft top , and targa top version. The design is bold enough to get you attention without being over the top to polarizing to people (well except for the front grill openings).

To summarize Xabier’s car though not my first choice I feel should be FF’s first choice due to the flexibility of design. As to which variant of the design, FF has already started it will be topless, though the race version or the finished interior of the roadster is still up in the air.

FF you need to get this car out there in any variant, but the follow up models MUST be on a TIGHT predetermined schedule with continual updates or many needing a roof over their head or wanting the other variants will lose interest and go elsewhere.

[kach22i]

Big improvement. Good call.

Why wasn't this done a couple of months ago?

In another form, in the same spirit, on another car it was done by FFR already, except few people noticed.


Then as now, I made the brake duct opening less dramatic and rounded the corner for better aero.


I guess one could swap Jim's earlier lower front valance on to X's red car. However, I really like the clean lines of Nouphone Bansasi original entry which I tried to incorporate.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ontest-Winners


Splitters, spoilers, brake duct openings can all be customized by the customers/builder just as they do on the GTM. It might be nice if this area had a break line or seam so that the gel-coat panel could be hacked up and repainted later after the personal modifications are made. This area of a car gets an extraordinary amount of paint chips, so it's just good design to start with.

.................................................. .....................

Now to get all fussy and unappreciative (hope I earned some slack)................my complaint list.

1. The advantage of using models are many, the experience it's self (sculpting by hand - not CNC) is a major one. However the biggest is the various angles and sight lines which can be "experienced". Most people error in treating a scale model like an art object or toy which sits on a table top in an non-interactive way and just look down on. A word of advice; BEND AT THE KNEES! A second word of advice; Walk all the way around (like a crouching tiger or raise the viewing platform).

Okay, that's my only complaint, but it's a big one, and one easily remedied.

[thebeerbaron]

I don't know if anyone else from the forum went to the reveal, if so I apologize that we didn't meet, where were you hiding?!

The first thing that I'll say is that the difference between seeing the models in person and seeing them on the screen is massive. And seeing the full-scale model compared to the 1/4 scale model is different on a similar level. The screen captures from the Ustream are horrible, though I'm glad our dear Wookie put something up.

I strongly encourage everyone who can possibly go to FFR and see the models to do so. I understand that they're taking off for SEMA this week, so make sure they're actually there before you make the trip. I walked in there with my hopes for a kick-*** body hung on the Olmos design. In person, it was a completely different car than what I saw in the renderings and especially different from what I've seen of the screen caps here (I haven't watched the Ustream video). I really, really wanted it to work, but it honestly didn't.

The difference between Jim's 1/4 scale model and the full-size model is as impressive as the difference between picture and model. Blown up to full-scale, more details emerge and certain parts just work. Are there a lot of revisions I'd make to it? Yes. Do I think Jim will be revising and improving it? Definitely. I think it has a lot of potential. Jim may want to strangle me after our long chat, but pointed out to me why some of the aesthetic decisions I disagree with had to be there. In sum, this no-paint body stuff adds some serious complexity to the project.

A word about the front end of the Xabier design: as much as we all see the issue there, the RISD team was tasked with rendering Xabier's design exactly as shown, no improvements allowed. So the clay model is as close to what the artist intended as possible. Jim and Dave know that mouth has to be fixed and it will be if the body design iterates further.

Jim put a good question to me: his design takes into account the limitations of the manufacturing processes. To apply those limitations to something like the Xabier car would require significant revision of the design. So which do you do, further improve on a blank canvas, or modify an existing painting? I'm not sure. As much as I see that I like in the Xabier design (and to this point I have been vocal in my dislike of it), I'm afraid the interesting bits would get lost in the translation to something that can be manufactured.

My thought process here was to post up and encourage you to wait at least until better pictures are posted of the designs. I didn't have a camera, but I believe Mad Dog took some pictures of the bodies. Hopefully those will come out after SEMA. If you can possibly go to SEMA or FFR, do it. I'm not 100% sure that FFR is on the track I would take with this stuff, but after talking the ears off both Dave and Jim, I think a lot of the concerns I've read here will be addressed.

[adesilva]

I am not sure exactly when FF will be leaving for SEMA but if people here on the forums were interested in getting more pictures I would be happy to drive down there and try to take as many as possible.

I work about 20 minutes from them so I would be able to stop by right after work possibly tomorrow or Tuesday to take some pictures.

I regrettably was unable to go to the open house yesterday because I was called into work but if they would allow me to see them now I would be more than happy to try and bring everyone along for the experience.