Design Model - O's - Feedback and Suggestions

[Flamshackle]

...oh and the butt is a little high, reminds me of a bustle, would look better at the same height as the front fenders (which are a touch high as well)

other than that I like it

Changing the height of the rear would destroy the look of the car and muck up the roof line... Seriously just take a good look at the 458 Italia and see the design cues here... Rodneys desing has a certain look about it that i feel hinges on these high arches to pull off.

The things you can change on the design without it being detrimental to the overall image of this car are the fine details like lights, minor adjustments to front and rear openings, little line changes on bonnet ect. If Rodney started making wholesale changes to the arch heights and bonnet I rhink that the design style would start to unravel.

Stick with it Rodney! your design is the top equal most liked car so changes MUST remain in the finer details and not detract from what people actually drawn to in the first instance. Also like Xabiers model it really grows on you over time.

[bromikl]

Changing the height of the rear would destroy the look of the car and muck up the roof line... Seriously just take a good look at the 458 Italia and see the design cues here... Rodneys desing has a certain look about it that i feel hinges on these high arches to pull off.

The things you can change on the design without it being detrimental to the overall image of this car are the fine details like lights, minor adjustments to front and rear openings, little line changes on bonnet ect. If Rodney started making wholesale changes to the arch heights and bonnet I rhink that the design style would start to unravel.

Stick with it Rodney! your design is the top equal most liked car so changes MUST remain in the finer details and not detract from what people actually drawn to in the first instance. Also like Xabiers model it really grows on you over time.

+1

I didn't know how to say it, but you did fine. I wouldn't change anything but what is necessary to make a realistic and buildable car. I even love the rectangular brake duct openings. Why conform to what all the other cars do? There's no fun in that. O, please don't lower the tail. And if you can fit the roof under the hood, more the better - you did that on purpose, didn't you, you sly dog.

[Steve91T]

First, it is original. People compare nouphone's to an aston martin or a maserati, xabier to a pininfarina design, and Jim's to Mr2/s200/hyundai. This really doesn't resemble anything other than itself.

You mean MRS, not the MR2.

[crackedcornish]

Changing the height of the rear would destroy the look of the car and muck up the roof line... Seriously just take a good look at the 458 Italia and see the design cues here... Rodneys desing has a certain look about it that i feel hinges on these high arches to pull off.

The things you can change on the design without it being detrimental to the overall image of this car are the fine details like lights, minor adjustments to front and rear openings, little line changes on bonnet ect. If Rodney started making wholesale changes to the arch heights and bonnet I rhink that the design style would start to unravel.

Stick with it Rodney! your design is the top equal most liked car so changes MUST remain in the finer details and not detract from what people actually drawn to in the first instance. Also like Xabiers model it really grows on you over time.

he asked for suggestions..if you don't try things out how will you know how they will look?

after all he narrowed the rear track by a foot and the design doesn't seem the worse for it...please tell me why are you so adamant about these cars having their rear ends stuck up in the breeze? is it personal taste or is there some scientific facts behind this?? help me understand where you're coming from on this point.

[Draco-REX]

he asked for suggestions..if you don't try things out how will you know how they will look?

after all he narrowed the rear track by a foot and the design doesn't seem the worse for it...please tell me why are you so adamant about these cars having their rear ends stuck up in the breeze? is it personal taste or is there some scientific facts behind this?? help me understand where you're coming from on this point.

Usually, the upward rear is so that you can fit a taller diffuser under the rear of the car and generate more downforce.

I personally prefer an upward swept rear. A lot of downward trailing rears just look weak to me. :P

[crackedcornish]

Usually, the upward rear is so that you can fit a taller diffuser under the rear of the car and generate more downforce.

I personally prefer an upward swept rear. A lot of downward trailing rears just look weak to me. :P

at what speed does this downforce occur? will it be useable at speeds acceptable on public streets?

I don't care for downward sloping rears either but I do like cars that are just about level front to rear without this exaggerated visual wedge stuff

I like this one


this one not so much

[edluv1]

You mean MRS, not the MR2.

There was no MRS in the US.

[shinn497]

The MR2 released in the U.S.. The third generation is the MR2 spyder I.E. The MR-S...

Particulars particulars. Anyway you know what I mean.

[Draco-REX]

at what speed does this downforce occur? will it be useable at speeds acceptable on public streets?

I don't care for downward sloping rears either but I do like cars that are just about level front to rear without this exaggerated visual wedge stuff

I like this one

Definitely not my favorite design. :P Just don't like the way it looks in the rear.

I much prefer a wedge to a half-baked loaf of bread. A car that curves up and then back down looks like the designers lost interest. I've never been a fan of Beetle or 911 styling (much the same), nor the BMW Z3, Lexus SC430, and others that slope downwards in the back. It's a nails-on-chalkboard thing to me. This car is supposed to look sporty, not camry.

"Speeds acceptable on public roads" is a poor argument so I'm going to ignore that; otherwise we should be limited to 65mph and just enough power to get us there. Remember, this roadster will become a track version. If FFR develops the roadster body into the track body, having allowances for aerodynamic aids is a good thing.

[RodneyO]

Rodney-
An inspired design! You appear to have worked out separate panels to allow production in color without any need to prep for paint etc. Love the VanDyke in the front giving a sophisticated male image. Could this be a faint homage to the D-Type Jaguar?

No specific car but mainly to that era of time, there were ton of rounded vents back then not many do it anymore so yes a bit.

Someone mentioned a while back that the car looked like an Mk4 ate a Camaro. And that one thought kept coming back as I was building the V2 front, if you look closely (which may be a bad thing or not) from the front, you will notice that the Color body part resembles the Hood of the Cobra, and some of the curves and headlights resemble the reptile as well. So just for fun I started referring the design as the Venom model, which comes after a Cobra bites you.. So first was the Cobra Design now the Venom ( Damn now I'm just sounding like an artist ).

So Next Steps and with and with all due respect and permission of FFR I will start some changes based of some of the current feedback

The list below will be the first I will tackle, I will have FFR decide if they want me to post new changes or not, so here is the list:

1. When I created the the design, I avoided reference because I didn't want it to look like anything else on the road, that's how the black exposed front bumper and rear bumper came about, I though I would apply this idea throughout the car, so the the top and sides needed more plastic,so Voila!
I will try and see what the car will look like with the plastic areas painted, and redesign flowing lines based off that, right now by design the bumper flow lines are different. In my thoughts, I'm a bit worried because that was the part that kept it original, however if I can incorporate a design that could allow you to have both a plastic or painted version, that would be a fantastic resolution!)

2. I will redesign the front a bit, from other artists friends I have, here in the forums and car fanatic friends, something has been bothering everyone about the front. I want to try a whole new approach here, there is one Idea I have that seems promising, but I will play with some of the suggested ones here.
Morra's design was awesome some have suggested for reference I will look at it for inspiration, VTX changes were fun I can see a bit what you are going after, I will play with that as well.

3. After I made the scale less wide, the butt seem to get a bit taller for me I will play with that area a bit without losing the essence it has.

4. I will reflow the lines a bit or better say, I will try and fine tune the lines, these can always be tuned for ever, you have to look at every angle of the car for the curves to feel just right, I don't think the lines on this car have reach their full potential, I have some really fun thoughts on this one.

5. I wish I could really test some real world problems, like suspension framework, etc, but I dont have access to those scales, so its all a ballpark at the moment, so I'll focus on the design, and hopefully FFR likes them =P. If I had direct shots from the side and front of the frame I could do some adjustments that will fit the chassis better and starting testing some real world scenarios.

6. I will start with those and focus on a Targa Top version for now.

7. Any other thoughts for now, this will keep me busy for a while and may not have updates for you guys for a while, let me know if would like more items added to this list.

8. oh yea, I think if the chassis got redesigned, this might make for a more appealing roof line, it feels way to high but safety is extremely important, I get curious about what FFR will do moving forward with that. ( This part has been the part that has made it most difficult to use as a rule)

cheers

p.s. Btw. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...stone-s-Design, this was one of my favorite designs when all submissions made it in.

and this one secondskitso39.jpg ( I would love to build this one in 3d someday, hmm..)
I have others I love or elements from them, Morra's was one of the other ones. and many more.

[scartaan]

Oppenheimer-
You asked what is appealing about O's design-there have been some excellent answers already, but let me add some more. Three of my favorite cars are the D-type Jag, the Lotus Exige, and especially the McLaren F1. All these cars are compact and curvacious. This is appealing and memorable to me and many others. Rodney has also developed a car which like the Elise is easily converted from coupe to roadster in a most elegant way. The front, back and roof "scoops" add character and strength to these areas and are easily incorporated into a fiberglass body. Vents could also be added along the sides of these front and rear scoops if needed to help the radiator or intercooler. Over all a brilliant design!

[Flamshackle]

he asked for suggestions..if you don't try things out how will you know how they will look?

Fair call. I guess if Rodney wanted to try it he could.

But there is a difference IMO between small details changing in an already VERY well liked design, and the profile being seriously altered. Your suggesting lowering the rear archs will modify the profile of the entire car which if you think it through would exaggerate the height of the already tall roof line.

Im all for suggesting changes where they will clean up small areas that are not ideal. Wholesale changes however wont be in keeping with the well thought out symmetry that has been created with the arches and high lines.

please tell me why are you so adamant about these cars having their rear ends stuck up in the breeze? is it personal taste or is there some scientific facts behind this?? help me understand where you're coming from on this point.

Many great super cars are designed like this because its an exotic look, many boast larger rear wheels to fill their bigger arch's and although the 818 will "not be in the same league" The designers are trying to create a very hot looking number and taking a design cue out of the super cars that are flamin hot is not a bad way to go about it.

Everything comes down to personal taste in the end but the vast majority like the car as is so I hope Rodney/Dave Smith dont end up throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water when it comes to changing the design.

Remember that exotic cars have exotic looks and they all grow on you over time. If FFR make this car something that is palatable to all then it wont "light anyone's hair on fire" which is the design look that FFR are going for.

[asamboer]

First, it is original. People compare nouphone's to an aston martin or a maserati, xabier to a pininfarina design, and Jim's to Mr2/s200/hyundai. This really doesn't resemble anything other than itself.

It is aggressive, the flared out fenders, sweeping profile, little angles make for a car that screams performance.

It is elegant. There aren't fins out of the wazoo. In addition, there are no straight lines, or parts that jut out of nowhere. It is curvy, but not in too much of a european way.

I think the biggest schizm that is occurring ,due to olmos's design, is its uniqueness. Which kind of makes sense. People seem to want kit cars to be something they are not. They look and say, I want a ferrari, or a porsche. 3 of factory fives designs are replicas (replicas that are better performing and cheaper than their originals ironically ). The GTM is inspired by the GT40 . I think that people have similiar expectations from the 818. Even though its an original people people seem to want it to evoke a car that is more expensive and with more prestige. They fear that to not have something recognizable, is something laughable.


But I say be proud that its a kit car and an FFR. The beauty of such a car is that not everyone can own one, not because it requires money, but because it requires perserverance and dedication. If it is weird or laughed at than so be it. This car will have unlimited potential built on a rock solid foundation. I'd want that even if it looks like a giant bannana.

Also Olmos looks REALLY good with a spoiler and low-pro's

I agree with your sentiments shinn497. You hit the nail on the head in regards to peoples’ expectation of what a kit car should be. Rodney's design is by far the most original and I think in the spirit of what the competition asked for. Does it need to be modified? Yes, but as long as it does not lose its unique character. I wish my design submission was more in Rodney’s direction. I opted for more classical and low cost design and so missed the mark with my design. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album...achmentid=3784
Let’s hope Rodney’s design gets a chance to be made.

[adesilva]

That Skitso39 image that Rodney posted as one of his favorites is awesome. I never saw that one before. If you were able to take some cues from that front end and incorporate it into your design I feel it would remove a lot of the love hate you have received with your design. I think that one is the perfect level for being aggressive and looking very sexy.HOF

[kach22i]

...............and this one secondskitso39.jpg ( I would love to build this one in 3d someday, hmm..)
I have others I love or elements from them, Morra's was one of the other ones. and many more.

Is this from the design team from Greece?

If not it is similar, like this design a lot.

[bigugly27]

This is my favorite by far on the models released! Nothing else out there really like it. Don't get me wrong the other models look fine but they could blend into the crowd much easier. I say leave it mostly as it is, maybe some minor modifications but I like it as it stands! Really looking forward to see what FFR does with this project and I have full confidence in your team Dave. I know you guys won't release something unless it is top notch, my only piece of advice and it is probably not even needed. Go for it all the way and hold nothing back!

Next project I would like to see is a truck or SUV kit! I love the idea of Icon4x4(unfortunately not a kit and way expensive but wickedly engineered!) and the Rally Fighter(Freaking awesome), we need great companies to continue down these paths to provide something better than the commercially available meh!

Best Wishes,

Daniel

[Movieman]

I like the "Modified O"..Make the top detachable( one piece lift off, maybe an optional part so the track guys don't need to buy it ) and I think you have a winner that would suit all..
Track car, daily driver and with a engine change a high MPG car.
I also have to say that Dear Lord are you guys talented.
My hat is off to all who submitted entries.
Incredibly impressed by the talent here on this forum.

[Draco-REX]

I love this car. It's my #1 choice and I would buy it as the 818 in a second.

But I have concerns:

The two-tone body is one of my favorite features. But I see it as very expensive or even impossible in Gelcoat. I want to see the single-color renders (red or blue, not black) to see how it will look to a prospective builder who doesn't want to paint.

The wheels look too big. Donor wheels will be 25" in diameter and between 8 and 9 inches in width. If those wheels are too big, re-sizing them to the donor size might make the wheel arches too big. You might want to play with the proportions to see if the spirit of the design can be kept with donor wheels. As it is, going larger than the 25" OD would work against the car's performance.

Door handles, though cool in your design, might require expensive custom work. The 02-07 Impreza door handles, though large-ish, aren't that ugly. Maybe it would be interesting to see what they would look like on the doors.

Vents/intakes. There's a wide swing of opinion about these. Personally, I'd prefer it if X amount of air flows into the front of the car, then 110% X can flow out. Hood heat extractor vents (like the '65 coupe) are preferable as we don't want to push more air under the car than there already is. Also, don't forget that airflow should be directed through the stock intercooler as well. It'll be easier to grab that from air flowing over the decklid. You might also hide the intakes by widening the transition from black to bodycolor on the headrest fairings and turning the step into an intake. It's nearly there as-is.

Headlights. I loved the circular ones from the initial drawing. Since all of the designs so far have tossed the Subaru headlights, then sourcing a pair from another car is apparently ok. In that case, you might want to consider headlights from the new Camaro to recapture that look.

I like the leading edge of the hood line, myself. The design now looks like the car had a more conventional pointed nose but something cleanly chopped it off, exposing the car beneath. ANd that just looks badass IMO.

I also like the brake inlets and exhaust tips. This is another example of an element being carried throughout the car which makes it one cohesive design; something that a lot of other designs (not just the 818 models, but real cars too) lack. However, I see these being chopped from the production model early on. You might want to come up with simpler alternatives if that is the case.

Overall, I love it. My greatest worry about this design isn't whether or not it's possible to do, but whether it's possible in the budget. Coming up with a simplified and more budget-friendly version to present to FFR might be a good idea. You could always design optional "add-ons" that could be sold with the car to bring it back to your ideal design. Remember, the target is for a $9K *base* kit. There's no limit to options. And options would = profit for FFR.

[kitcarj]

If your car was too wide could you imagine what would have to be done to the rear of this car? Unlike yours, narrowing this one looks like it would take most of the character out of the rear.

and this one secondskitso39.jpg ( I would love to build this one in 3d someday, hmm..)
I have others I love or elements from them, Morra's was one of the other ones. and many more.

[crackedcornish]

Fair call. I guess if Rodney wanted to try it he could.

But there is a difference IMO between small details changing in an already VERY well liked design, and the profile being seriously altered. Your suggesting lowering the rear archs will modify the profile of the entire car which if you think it through would exaggerate the height of the already tall roof line.

Im all for suggesting changes where they will clean up small areas that are not ideal. Wholesale changes however wont be in keeping with the well thought out symmetry that has been created with the arches and high lines.



Many great super cars are designed like this because its an exotic look, many boast larger rear wheels to fill their bigger arch's and although the 818 will "not be in the same league" The designers are trying to create a very hot looking number and taking a design cue out of the super cars that are flamin hot is not a bad way to go about it.

Everything comes down to personal taste in the end but the vast majority like the car as is so I hope Rodney/Dave Smith dont end up throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water when it comes to changing the design.

Remember that exotic cars have exotic looks and they all grow on you over time. If FFR make this car something that is palatable to all then it wont "light anyone's hair on fire" which is the design look that FFR are going for.

thanks for taking the time to explain you point of view on some of these points...I think I can understand where you're at a bit better now.

rest assured I'm not suggesting that the design (especially the rear height thing) have wholesale changes...I'm just asking for a slight tweak here and there just to see how it affects the overall look of the car

[mentatbashar]

Rodney,

Would it be possible to put some panel lines on the model like Dave had done for the FFR model? Maybe this could be "phase 2" once you're happy with the body revisions.

Once again, well done!

[BipDBo]

It hink I know what this car really needs. Would it be possible to photoshop on a nice layer of dust, and a Mad Max style super charger and exhaust pipes sticking up out of the back? If it's not asking too much, could you also add a pair of machine guns to the front fenders? That'd be swell.

[dclin]

SEX.

[BipDBo]

SEX.

I think you meant to post this in the thread, "Name the next Factory 5 Challenge."

[dclin]

OK, so to each his own and all, but I really don't get what people like about this design. But it turns out there are so many of you that like it, and it was a contest winner. So its obviously got something going for it. People, normal people, really do like it.

But I'm just not seeing it. I'm trying to be open minded. So tell me what you like about it. I don't expect you to try to make me like it, just help me have respect for it. I'm not trying to start an argument, I sincerely want to know why so many like this design. I respect the opinion of many of you, so I want to respect your choice as well.

I don't have to like it to respect it. But I can't respect it if I don't know what's good about it. And right now I just don't know what's good about it. Help me see what you see.

LOL, what we all perceive as 'beautiful' is something that is unique to our own tastes, background, etc. You, preferring 'model X' over the Olmos design is no more wrong than anybody else preferring something different. I happen to think that Jessica Alba, bar none, is the most beautiful woman in the world. Others may disagree (though they'd be wrong lol!)

Having said that, from a technical standpoint, the Olmos design has a continuity of design character that starts at the front, and is consistent all the way to the very back. These snapshots of different elements of the design; though they are of different colors, they all clearly belong to the same car. Now do the same for the others.

Could the design be tweaked a little? Sure. I don't think any designer has ever said 'there is absolutely nothing I would change'.

[dclin]

OK, so to each his own and all, but I really don't get what people like about this design. But it turns out there are so many of you that like it, and it was a contest winner. So its obviously got something going for it. People, normal people, really do like it.

But I'm just not seeing it. I'm trying to be open minded. So tell me what you like about it. I don't expect you to try to make me like it, just help me have respect for it. I'm not trying to start an argument, I sincerely want to know why so many like this design. I respect the opinion of many of you, so I want to respect your choice as well.

I don't have to like it to respect it. But I can't respect it if I don't know what's good about it. And right now I just don't know what's good about it. Help me see what you see.

LOL, what we all perceive as 'beautiful' is something that is unique to our own tastes, background, etc. You, preferring 'model X' over the Olmos design is no more wrong than anybody else preferring something different. I happen to think that Jessica Alba, bar none, is the most beautiful woman in the world. Others may disagree (though they'd be wrong lol!)

Having said that, from a technical standpoint, the Olmos design has a continuity of design character that starts at the front, and is consistent all the way to the very back. These snapshots of different elements of the design; though they are of different colors, they all clearly belong to the same car. Now do the same for the others.














Could the design be tweaked a little? Sure. I don't think any designer has ever said 'there is absolutely nothing I would change'.

[dclin]

[dclin]

i think you meant to post this in the thread, "name the next factory 5 challenge."

lol!

[Doc_FFR]

I miss the square mouth from before.

[mattster03]

This is now my favorite car as well, and I wouldn't change it a bit! It think my reason for loving it is the unique design as well... no one will ever confuse it as a big-production car with a body kit. I hope that Dave gives the appropriate chance for a design this great to be the sole body design for the car.

[flyboy2160]

i like the venom lines, especially the non-creased hood.

it looks like you could replace the pieces that fair-in the bases of the roll hoops with a single hoop-shaped piece that would form the aft mount for an x1/9 style removable hard top and for the rear window. if that top was 2 pieces, you might be able to stow it up front.

to close out the hard top version, the window upper line might have to go higher. for me the elise top/window upper line ruins the side lines of that car.

any chance you could add this stuff in 3D? if you don't want to, i can do it in solidworks without taking any credit from you.

flyboy steve

[RodneyO]

Hi everyone,

Been drawing a bit so I thought I would upload some work in progress. The front is something I have been focusing on, any thoughts?

I also have a 3d version I'm editing its coming along nicely Ill upload those soon.

[crackedcornish]

Hi everyone,

Been drawing a bit so I thought I would upload some work in progress. The front is something I have been focusing on, any thoughts?

I also have a 3d version I'm editing its coming along nicely Ill upload those soon.

I like the red one better. starting to look mean

how about putting a vent in the hood? by lowering the front edge of the "U" shaped crease in the center of the hood and making it into an exhaust vent it would look pretty neat and maybe help the aero

[Oppenheimer]

Wow, as someone that had been critical of this design, I'm liking these changes. I like the nose on the orange a lot more. And I really like how the black roof section is now flush with the colored body section where they meet. I also like how on the orange one the side window ends into the rear roof 'sail' panel with a nice curve, instead of angular as on blue.

I still don't like how, from certain angles, the way the top of the doors are so much lower than the fenders that it reminds of a dune buggy, or worse, a 70's kit car, but maybe in full scale this wouldn't be so bad.

What does it look like if you make roof panel body color? Some may not like that, but if it were an option...

[Niburu]

This design continues to grow on me the more I see it, part of that is being able to see the front and rear details abit more clearly now. In some of the early pics I honestly couldn't tell what was going on.
As to the above two picture variations, the red one is definitely the prettier and flows better.
That said, I like the blue one more, it has more of that "unique" vibe to it - I know when I blow by that guy in his brovette the reaction is going to be WTF was THAT!?!

[kach22i]

I like the red one better. starting to look mean

how about putting a vent in the hood? by lowering the front edge of the "U" shaped crease in the center of the hood and making it into an exhaust vent it would look pretty neat and maybe help the aero

Good suggestion.

Yes, this orange/red one is getting there, and in the fast lane too.

I would still like to see more of an indication of where the engine is. It's not looking both front and rear engined at the same time now. However it's not telegraphing where the power is either. A simple vertical slot opening (narrow) just aft of the door on the rear quarter panel should do the trick.

SEE IMAGE(s) BELOW
Modified-kach22i-VenomFront2.jpg
Modified-kach22i-VenomFront4.jpg

[GUNS]

Holy **** Rodney! I love them both. The blue one is unique and holds true to your original design, just executed much better. The orange one just looks pissed off! I'd take either one in a heart beat. I wasn't completely sold on your original design, but this is definitely my new favorite design. My Hair is officially on fire. Well done sir!

[Psay]

The orange one has completely blown me away. It is stunning.

Can't wait to see the 3D version

[BipDBo]

I like the recent modifications, but I prefer the blue one with the headlights, " down, in the black." I also like the hood vent, but I think it should follow the curve of the hood crease if possible.

Your original rendering was, by your aadmission 12" wider than the template, and it's obvious that you show wider tires. The new rendings look more narrow, but it looks like you just scaled the whole thing down in one dimension. If so, can you show us what happens when you put on stock wrx wheels at the specified track width of 58.5" front / 58.3" rear without making it more narrow at the doors?

[crackedcornish]

Good suggestion.

Yes, this orange/red one is getting there, and in the fast lane too.

I would still like to see more of an indication of where the engine is. It's not looking both front and rear engined at the same time now. However it's not telegraphing where the power is either. A simple vertical slot opening (narrow) just aft of the door on the rear quarter panel should do the trick.

SEE IMAGE(s) BELOW
Modified-kach22i-VenomFront2.jpg
Modified-kach22i-VenomFront4.jpg

can you do the hood scoop, but follow the curve of the crease of the original hood..so that the scoop is "U" shaped at the front instead of flat at the front?