818 Sample Model 4

[kach22i]

This model-4 is a hodgepodge of familiar and borrowed elements tossed together. There is no sense of integration or flow, no grace or beauty – it is just a mess.

The beauty of age is that you really speak your mind and no longer care what other people think.

You are 100% correct in my opinion.

More than enough people have candy coated their responses, no need for you to do it as well.

[BipDBo]

Dave, just for the record, the GTM is a beautiful machine, IMO. It's not a Ferrarri, but it's better looking than a Corvette or anything close to is price range. I wouldn't call Jim's car a complete mess, but it's just not nearly as fluid as the GTM. You have some models that, I think, leave the GTM behind. This may be good or bad news, because with a similar power to weight ratio, you just may kill your own market for the GTM. The GTM may become like Chloe Kardashian, a gorgeous woman, but only because of her family, is seen as the ugly stepsister. (In most people's eyes. For the record, I think she's the best looking Kardashian.)

[Dave Smith]

With age I've found the just the opposite.

It's not that I no longer care what others think, it's that I understand far better than when I was a rash young man, that the words I choose affect others and I CARE not to hurt them needlessly.. Polite, Professional and Honest are unrealted to candy coating.

[Steve91T]

Sometimes I really feel bad for Dave. This company is doing something that I've never seen before. They are releasing pictures of the design process. The reason companies don't do that is because people can see a possible design (that's not complete), and form opinions that it's not going to be what they want, so it turns them away. Instead we get to see a design, and offer ideas that may make it better. The majority of the people here can see that the car is close, and with some more tweaks, even small ones, it'll make a world of a difference. A small change to the air inlets, different headlights and a different grill opening and it won't even look like the same car anymore.

I'm personally extremely impressed that Dave and his company are so willing to open the doors and allow us to follow the design process. We're going to see what designs are going to make it, and look amazing, and we're probably also going to see some designs not make it and be tossed.

I just hope the few people on here who are not respectful don't ruin it for the rest of us.

Steve

[onyx_riddle]

Dave, just for the record, the GTM is a beautiful machine, IMO. It's not a Ferrarri, but it's better looking than a Corvette or anything close to is price range. I wouldn't call Jim's car a complete mess, but it's just not nearly as fluid as the GTM. You have some models that, I think, leave the GTM behind. This may be good or bad news, because with a similar power to weight ratio, you just may kill your own market for the GTM. The GTM may become like Chloe Kardashian, a gorgeous woman, but only because of her family, is seen as the ugly stepsister. (In most people's eyes. For the record, I think she's the best looking Kardashian.)

While I do somewhat agree, I must say that the GTM will probably not outsell the 818 in the long run but I doubt anyone looking to spend $60k on an Enzo killer will be swayed by the upcomming 818. Like it or not, its now the "poor man's FFR". Maybe not to everyone, but to many it will be. The Boxter outsells the GT3, sure. But not because of any shortcommings from the GT3. I, for one always thought I would be 40yrs old before I could afford an FFR. That's the beauty of this project.

[Steve91T]

While I do somewhat agree, I must say that the GTM will probably not outsell the 818 in the long run but I doubt anyone looking to spend $60k on an Enzo killer will be swayed by the upcomming 818. Like it or not, its now the "poor man's FFR". The Boxter outsells the GT3, sure. But not because of any shortcommings from the GT3. I, for one always thought I would be 40yrs old before I could afford an FFR. That's the beauty of this project.

I'm in the same situation. I've wanted to build an FFR for years, but I thought it'd be many more until I was able to. But, just because I'm able to build an 818 now doesn't mean that someday, when I'm 40, I'm not going to build a GTM! My garage is going to be pretty awesome with an 818 sitting next to a GTM...someday.

[onyx_riddle]

I'm in the same situation. I've wanted to build an FFR for years, but I thought it'd be many more until I was able to. But, just because I'm able to build an 818 now doesn't mean that someday, when I'm 40, I'm not going to build a GTM! My garage is going to be pretty awesome with an 818 sitting next to a GTM...someday.

Wow. We think alike .

[Dave Smith]

Don't feel too bad for me! I'm having the most fun in my entrie professional life. I run a super cool car company and I work with the best group of people you could ever imagine. I get to do TV shows and drive any one of 10 serious fast cool looking cars any day weather permitting. I am super appreciative of the feedback because I can see this process from 30,000 feet up and I already see the car and it's effect on the world. I may not like the feedback all the time, but I am in LOVE with the process and community. Thick skin comes with the job. MY JOB is to ensure the car delivers on the promises irrespective of the difficulty getting there. None of you will ever know how grateful I am to have the opportunity to do this. I have GOT to get off the 'puter and get some stuff done for SEMA... just found out our Mk4 will be headliner at main entrance... cool job.

[aschermann]

Dave,

while I know that you are totally focused on making the decision as to which model to implement, I think that most of us are delighted with all of the
models that have been presented. Yes it must have "hair-on-fire", and we all trust you will make such a decision. In viewing the video from last week,
I found it difficult to fairly define the differences between the models because in part the colors were different. The red model showed its details
well, as did the grey (Jim's). The black model and the dark blue model features were more difficult to see from the video's perspective at least.

chiming in on your other question (which baseline to build) - my preference would be the street model. While the high-mileage model would be
fun and get you publicity, most of us are not intending to use the 818 for long mileage (especally if it lacks a proper top)... and frankly, I'd buy a
Prius for high mileage. Most of us are not racers, though I admit that racing gets you additional publicity. Most of us are just nuts about
cars and want an exciting, fun, easily built car that is different from the world of pre-packaged models and exceptionally fun to drive. So, while
I know you'd get to the street model soon enough (and maybe creating the racing model first allows the interior department to have more time
to work) but for those of us following this program... we'd like something we can build.... now would be great.

Nice work and thanks. Great to see your dedication to creative vehicles. We'll keep following the 818 program.

[kitcarj]

I think part of the problem is we all imagined these cars looking the way we would each get most excited about them and figured at least 1 or 2 of the winners would fully live up to our ideal (short of having your own design picked if you thought yours was best). I am very impressed with how Dave has taken the comments but some of them cross the line from brutally helpful to mean spirited. Looking at the comments for the cars I don't like and the ones I do, it strikes me how different our tastes can be. The design I like you hate and vice versa. One guy wants it simple and flowing "too much going on" and another thinks add hood scoops vents and a huge tail! I would rather have a stock Mitsubishi Lancer Evo then the black car but some people love it? I don't find the blue car appealing at all except the rear stance but some love it. The red and silver cars don't make my HoF but I do like them, but many people can't stand them?

[Oppenheimer]

Lets head Dave's comments and keep our emotions in check. This car has already rooted in our hearts, and evoked our passions. We all want it to succeed, and we all want it to be the best it can be. We just have differeing idreas of what that means. Earlier on it was arguing if it should be a minimalist track weapon, or a daily driver. Now we find out its both, and more, and those comments have all but disappered. Do we think FFR is going to drop the ball now on the body design? Remember there will be more than one. If you don't like one, there will be others to choose from.

Lets keep being critical, FFR needs that, lets just keep it respectful. We are being given a unique opportunity here to participate. Lets not abuse it. It shouldn't take Dave stepping in to discipline us like we're his kids. we should be policing ourselves better. If someone makes an inappropriate comment, we should respectfully correct them. Perhaps a PM would be best, to avoid flame wars.

This is Dave's company, his car, his investment, his future. Yet he is able to keep his ego in check, and keep it all about the car and its success. Someone calls his baby ugly, yet he keeps it respectful. Can't we all do the same?

[adesilva]

Couldnt agree more. I am a designer (and business owner) myself and I know how difficult it can be to deal with some criticism with a smiling face but Dave has done an amazing job. It is difficult when some people may attack a product instantly and have no idea the hours and work that may have gone into it. In the end we are all given an opportunity to see this design process the entire way through and that will just make our builds that much cooler. We can sit back with our finished car and remember what it looked like from the beginning and how far it has come.

I know i certainly appreciate the opportunity to view and hopefully help this project come along (as little help that we may provide)

[AVIONX]

I am finding one thing about FFR very encouraging. Those of you that followed the last design by the other Smith brother will remember this. The closer it got to production, the uglier and "kittier" it got. Right off the bat, Dave, Jim, and the FFR team make every design look better every step they take closer to production. And they did that with the design that was the least liked by the Forum voters. Imagine what they can do starting with our favorite design. BRAVO!

[onyx_riddle]

I am finding one thing about FFR very encouraging. Those of you that followed the last design by the other Smith brother will remember this. The closer it got to production, the uglier and "kittier" it got. Right off the bat, Dave, Jim, and the FFR team make every design look better every step they take closer to production. And they did that with the design that was the least liked by the Forum voters. Imagine what they can do starting with our favorite design. BRAVO!

.

Okay I've never actually seen his efforts. Where might i research this?

[Silvertop]

WOW, I just realized that last post was my 99th. So, here's to post 100 !!! As you can tell, it is mostly filled with worthless ramblings from my hollow head.

Good job, Senior Member Nick's PaPaw. Your "worthless ramblings" will now generate immediate respect and awe.

[DrieStone]

I've been lurking for a while, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. My daily driver is an '05 WRX, so I'm pretty much sold on this project (I love my car). Additionally I have an '83 Lotus Esprit sitting in the garage, which in my mind is one of the best looking exotics on the planet (beside maybe the Lancia Stratos).

I'm a little concerned for two reasons. First I feel like design #4 is an attempt to appease everyone by taking some of the elements from the other designs. I can say that I really don't feel like the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I get the distinct feeling that the FF team is trying to justify this design a bit too much.

This really can't be designed by committee, it will end up watered down and uninspired. You're not going to appeal to everyone. It doesn't matter what the end product is, there is going to be a significant portion of those here on the message board who dislike the design. If there isn't a design that makes Dave & Co say "We HAVE to build this car", then perhaps we need to take a step back.

This car needs to be bold and inspired, and I don't see that in #4, but there are hints of it in the #1 and #2 designs.

[2KWIK4U]

If this was the final design, I would buy it. At first I didn't like it as much as the others but I am starting to get the "warm head feeling" too. I can't catch my hair on fire because I don't have any hair!!

The only thing I am still looking for is a targa top to go on it. Well done Dave and Jim

[Oppenheimer]

Many of the contest submissions were vetted on here first. People would wiegh in on what they liked, and didn't. The designer would make some changes, repost, and so on. That worked pretty well. The designer was free to ignore feedback that they felt would not be useful, and to interpret feedback they did find useful in their own way.

I think that same process can work on the final models. But someone has to be in charge. I think that has to be Dave and Jim.

[kach22i]

I tried my hand at taming this beast, felt like it was grinning at me like the Chesire cat for a moment.


Okay, being silly, here is the original unmolested model.

Modified a bit.


I'm not happy with it, just gave it a go.

Somebody else give it a try. It's not lighting my hair on fire.

EDIT-1:
Tried my photo program to return to my mark-up concept of 09/23/11
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...2i/Automobile/


EDIT-2: 10/28/11...........going lower per comments, more of a GTM influence shown.

[RM1SepEx]

It has to have some sort of a top capability... look what happened to FFR's last no top model. (Just as I was about to buy one)Targa, soft vinyl, anything or it will have severe volume sales issues. I fully plan on driving it on nice days just like my 325IC or one of my kid's or wife's Miatas... but forecasts are not reliable and taking a couple minutes to put up something to keep the leather seats dry is mandatory

Dave's doing an excellent job taking what he/they can to fine tune a truely beautiful beast, I can't wait to build mine.

I want classy and curvy but not cartoonish...

[Doc_FFR]

I like the rear, and hate the front.

Ditto. And that's LIKE the rear, not LOVE.

The model looks much better now the details are added, but I would only get behind this model if I knew someone was selling a body kit to make it look better.

The thing that scares me the most is that Dave said that Jim was in charge of choosing the final design... Why would he pick any other than his own?

You put us in a difficult position Dave. Everyone wants to express their honest opinion and help out with the design process. It's hard to do that and not hurt the feelings of someone who put a lot of effort into something.

This model-4 is a hodgepodge of familiar and borrowed elements tossed together. There is no sense of integration or flow, no grace or beauty – it is just a mess.

It may be a kick to the penis, but no one has said it more accurately than olpro. I wish it weren't so, but there it is.

[BrandonDrums]

"fem looking catfish" "Hodge podge design" . Hmm. I havent elevated any design, simply picked one for reasons of time and guys, to do as you guys asked and show pictures with better detail. If the better photos/detail was helpful, it was my intention to do more. Still, bridging the gap seems pretty unlikely here and it may be that we strike out in a new direction altogether. My simple goal and about 25 man hours went into this request, to put more details on and ask sensible questions about the process in a respectful way. I am welcome to all points of view. The design goals set forth a year ago, the chassis work, running gear slection, body design competition, presentation of project status, expertise of suppliers, efforts of super-talented people, and even the present shape of one of four designs in scale form (which admitedly lacks clear translation to full-size ergo Barbie syndrome), made worse by the KNOWN translational differences between print and real space... All of them beg for some constructive criticism and a bit of lattitude. No-one here wants a bunch of "yes" men... still, I would buy this car for $9,900 and build it under $15K as it is right now. My goals are just much higher. I think I have thick enough skin because I've done this five times before in differing degrees. Thaks for the candor though, it helps us tremendously as I would rather not go to market with a fem catfish car.

Thanks for adding the detailed pics of Jim's car, I certainly like the design better with the details added in. However, if you look at the poll, most people seem to like Xabier's car far and above the Silver example and I don't think the added detail above is swaying that opinion. It's a beautiful design and if it's built, I don't think it would prevent sales at all

Respectfully, I think if the GTM went through the same process that FFR is going through right now with the 818, I bet it would look quite different than it does or perhaps it might not have gotten launched. We had a design competition and we have the cars in front of us that were chosen and the polls and discussion suggest that Xabier's design has won even though it's not by the margin it seems Dave and the team want to see to fully back any one design over another.

My point is though, I think with any car design, there are few in history that all viewers agree on and the 3 design competition winners we have before us are rarities in the fact that the qualms we have with them seem so limited.

To continue my point, I love the Ferrari Italia but I actually don't care for the rear end as much as the old F430, I never liked the Enzo, I liked the 'Racoon" looks of the Nissan GT-R pre-pro concept more than the original as much as I actually enjoy the "catfish" look of Xabier's design and the "cartoon" looks of Olmos' design
Nissan_GTR_Concept_exrrdrvr34.jpg.

Essentially, there is never going to be a car that 100% of the market agrees is perfect and that's okay. It's simply not worth going down a "new direction all together" at this point to chase such an elusive flying magical liger/unicorn/holy grail of a design. As a pending consumer of this vehicle, I'm a little confused that an all new design that hasn't captured many followers seems to have all the focus within FFR after so much has been invested in sourcing a design externally. I think it has confused many of us on what the last 6 months of design discussion and polling and public competitions have been about. I know that Dave isn't trying to elevate the FFR house design over the others but it's mere existence I think is a little distracting and untimely when taking the discussion and competition over the last 7 or 8 months into account.

As much as I know why FFR built the above design and despite how much I enjoy it..respectfully I think that presenting the internal design even if it were a clearly superior one has the effect of going through a season of American Idol, getting down to the top 3 contestants then throwing in Steven Tylers previously estranged son as a 4th contestant in the 2nd to last episode. Even if the kid was better than the rest, it kinda makes the whole show pointless and will make a good many folks, contestants and viewers feel a little disappointed and cheated after so much hard work and emotional involvement.

If we want publicity with this car then there's as much to the story behind the design as there is with the design itself. The story that was chosen from the beginning was to have a design competition. The right thing to do is to make this car with a design that came from that long long long process. That story makes headlines more than any replacement design ever could, even if it was better, easier to produce or cheaper to make. I think the time and money spent on developing another design now would probably cost a good bit more than using one of the designs already sitting in front of us. Even more could have been saved if those designs were just the top 3.

Forgive me for my frankness, I hope I don't offend anyone as that wasn't my intent.

Choose the true winner, you can find out who that is here http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...forum-for-dave

[Dave Smith]

There was more than one question and it got lost in the discussion of the 4th car, that was made to show more details. The question I was VERY interested in answering was WHICH MODEL first? The consensus seems to be affordable roadster launch, followed by track model as a derivative/similar body and hyper mpg with alt body/coupe shape. I have sorta decided that we will launch the affordable roadster model first and perhaps involve a few race teams/race builders to explore concurrently the R version, then go to the build-your-own hyper mpg car. Some other questions:

Top: I think any roadster will no doubt have a soft top. I won't repeat the Spyder GT and we have Dave Draper who designs some of the best rod tops around and is dying to get his hands on the car once a body shape is finalized.

Jim: Ultimately Jim picks the design because that's his job. I've seen the result of crowd sourcing where the crowd made the call 100% and I'm not interested. The real genius of the process is balancing the do-ables with the dreams and the determining factor is whether people buy it. An early indication of this is strong HoF reactions.

Feedback: Keep the honest feedback coming and please don't hold back for fear of hurting someone's feelings... Still I think we can disagree on shapes and ideas without calling someones work a joke or a mess as that does make folks feel bad and community exists for building not breaking relationships.

There are tons of designs from the competition that lie unused and unexplored, and many of them are in CAD format. The four cars we did in scale model have gotten us to a point where we've learned solid modeling and shaping pretty well and can turn out manufacturable versions fairly quickly and without too much coin. ALL of these considerations will have to wait til SEMA is over as we have much more than the 818 Chassis (and one model the silver one ugh) going for huge honors and press.

[BrandonDrums]

There was more than one question and it got lost in the discussion of the 4th car, that was made to show more details. The question I was VERY interested in answering was WHICH MODEL first? The consensus seems to be affordable roadster launch, followed by track model as a derivative/similar body and hyper mpg with alt body/coupe shape. I have sorta decided that we will launch the affordable roadster model first and perhaps involve a few race teams/race builders to explore concurrently the R version, then go to the build-your-own hyper mpg car. Some other questions:

Top: I think any roadster will no doubt have a soft top. I won't repeat the Spyder GT and we have Dave Draper who designs some of the best rod tops around and is dying to get his hands on the car once a body shape is finalized.

Jim: Ultimately Jim picks the design because that's his job. I've seen the result of crowd sourcing where the crowd made the call 100% and I'm not interested. The real genius of the process is balancing the do-ables with the dreams and the determining factor is whether people buy it. An early indication of this is strong HoF reactions.

Feedback: Keep the honest feedback coming and please don't hold back for fear of hurting someone's feelings... Still I think we can disagree on shapes and ideas without calling someones work a joke or a mess as that does make folks feel bad and community exists for building not breaking relationships.

There are tons of designs from the competition that lie unused and unexplored, and many of them are in CAD format. The four cars we did in scale model have gotten us to a point where we've learned solid modeling and shaping pretty well and can turn out manufacturable versions fairly quickly and without too much coin. ALL of these considerations will have to wait til SEMA is over as we have much more than the 818 Chassis (and one model the silver one ugh) going for huge honors and press.

I have a couple co-workers going to SEMA for business, I'm going to try to send them your way and hopefully skype me in or something :-)

If I were a betting man, I'd say the Red car will win a similar % of favorable comments on the open crowd as they do in our little community among the others being presented. However, it would be cool to perhaps have a little slideshow of other top designs not presented in scale form.

Would you be open to that and perhaps figure out a way to get open crowd feedback regarding additional designs vs. the 4 scale models? One of the other threads has some folks discussing some of the more popular design submissions that didn't make it to the cad/scale model level already in progress...

[kach22i]

Nissan_GTR_Concept_exrrdrvr34.jpg.

Not to derail, but I saw an GM/Opel Amperage in person Tuesday evening and it had some details you might be interested in.


Opel-Ampera-20.jpg
Yes, it's just a Chevy Volt for Europe. I was told about the Australian Vauxhall model, but forget the nameplate on that one.

[vozproto]

ALL of these considerations will have to wait til SEMA is over as we have much more than the 818 Chassis (and one model the silver one ugh) going for huge honors and press.

I have seen very few concept cars that were 100% manufacturable and set my hair on fire.
It's almost always a "I love it, but whats with (insert car part here"

Or just completely outlandish and ridiculous to prove an artists vision.

What I am tryin to say is... be proud of where we are now.
Are we at a final product? No.

But there is no reason to down-play or have any regrets in which car you built 1:1 first. It is an iterative process for sure.

And look how far you have brought this community in the design of a soon to be 'vette and elise killer in both looks AND performance.
Where was the 818 a year ago?

[D2W]

Dave I have to say you're doing a great job of taking input, and staying the course. I don't believe that anybody is trying to hurt anyone's feelings with their comments. Some people just are a lot more brutally honest in how they express themselves.

To a guy that's on the outside it does appear that you are trying to elevate Jim's design above the others. You have to remember that we don't know all the reasons behind your decisions so we fill in the gaps. Thanks for explaining why you are taking Jim's design to SEMA. It wasn't obvious to someone who hasn't seen the models in person.

I have to say that I think Jim has an awesome job, but I would not want it right now. I don't care how many people say it doesn't matter what the car looks like as long as it performs. If the car goes like stink, and looks like a turd it won't be a big seller. I could build a tube frame monster that blows all others in the ditch, but if the body is made by draping a blue tarp from Harbor Freight over it nobody is going to give it a second look. Lets look at it another way to show how tough Jim's job is. The GTM is a good looking car and has sold reasonably well (about 300 cars in 10 years, guesses). It has in my opinion some shortcoming's in the design. It is not a Mclaren F1 or a Lamborghini Muira (which I consider timeless designs). Do you ever wonder how many GTM's would have been sold if it looked less like the VBM 4000 gtc and a lot more like a GT40. Hard to say but it makes you think.

[DragonXtreme]

New to the forums but I do have a vested interest in the outcome of this project. There was one thing that was bugging me after reading so many post on the 818 project, I kept running across the word HOF and for the life of me I couldn't figure it out until tonight.

Then I remember seeing this awhile back.

HOF.jpg

But this isn't what you guys really mean by "Hair on Fire"

I have enjoyed reading the process you guys have gone through to get to this point.

Good luck at SEMA Dave and Crew, look forward to hearing the comments after the show.

[GS guy]

Not go get off-topic - but I keep wondering why this car didn't get more attention? It pushes all the right buttons for me - hair a flam'in! I just couldn't find any other views (maybe that's why it didn't make it to the finals?). Definitely has the right low-slung side view - not mass-market looking.

AnthonySamboer.jpg

[bromikl]

I was thinking of how to give Jim's design a soul. The design (I'm sure) is technically excellent. But we all know intuitively that air flows past a car, and that air NEVER flows in straight lines. But there are so many straight lines on Jim's design!

I think I know what needs to be done, but I have no idea how to do it: If we could take a digital 3D model of Jim's design and put it into SolidWorks and maximize it for desired airflow (low CoD and high flow through vents) - I think we'd have a winner. On the other hand, it may be ugly as sin. It's worth a shot. As is, the design is DOA.

[vozproto]

Not go get off-topic - but I keep wondering why this car didn't get more attention? It pushes all the right buttons for me - hair a flam'in! I just couldn't find any other views (maybe that's why it didn't make it to the finals?). Definitely has the right low-slung side view - not mass-market looking.

AnthonySamboer.jpg

To me it just looks like a hybrid of the type '65 Spyder and GTM
It is a good looking and safe design. But a safe design isn't gonna win this one though.

[kach22i]

Not go get off-topic - but I keep wondering why this car didn't get more attention? It pushes all the right buttons for me - hair a flam'in! I just couldn't find any other views (maybe that's why it didn't make it to the finals?). Definitely has the right low-slung side view - not mass-market looking.

AnthonySamboer.jpg

I liked this judges pick a lot. A little retro, but nicely done. It was not too flashy, and maybe a bit too classic for the Internet crowd here, but I liked it a lot myself. It would be easy to convert this into a targa or put a windshield on it, I gave it a half hearted shot, I trust Anthony would not mind.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...2i/Automobile/


Just a suggestion, but if Jim's silver car went more in this direction it would make me a happy camper. I think the tail already has something in common with Jim's. And the front has something in common with my mark-up's of Jim's design.

[kach22i]

put it into SolidWorks and maximize it for desired airflow

It might already be in Solidworks, so not a bad idea.

From what I know about car aerodynamics, it's mostly the area aft of the windshield top (high point on a convertible) which determines "drag". Of course low frontal area is important in the overall Cd, but beyond rounded corners at the front, there is not as much importance on it.

This is the template which most people agree is the idea shape (green template):
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-c-9287-9.html

[BrandonDrums]

I liked this judges pick a lot. A little retro, but nicely done. It was not too flashy, and maybe a bit too classic for the Internet crowd here, but I liked it a lot myself. It would be easy to convert this into a targa or put a windshield on it, I gave it a half hearted shot, I trust Anthony would not mind.

I would have loved to seen a retro inspired design make it to the finals. No one does modern tech with a retro twist like FFR, thought it just made sense.

With all the talk of a "Swatch Watch" chassis and multiple bodies etc., it seems the multiples FFR are talking about are just the chassis variants themselves and not design variants for the same application of the chassis. We have the MPG, Race and Street car but I would have loved to have multiple body designs for the primary kit i.e. a few different choices for the street version of the car, at one point I believe that was something Dave was hinting at.

I know it's been discussed before but I'm getting the feeling that idea has been put to bed somewhat and now the focus is on the 3 models that will have static design options. I think that's raised the bar perhaps in deciding this intial design because that design might be it for the street version aside from targa or hard top options....

We shall see, let's get this initial design picked out and get this car released, my WAF is growing as we get closer, I don't want to spin out and end up having to wait a decade to regain it!

[Someday I Suppose]

I am truly blown away by some of the comments in this thread, the negativity on being invited to be part of the design process just baffles me. That said, Dave has addressed it far better then I ever could.

On the other side of blown away, I came to Factory Five because I had a dream since I was a kid to build a cobra, owning an original was pretty much something I knew was not going to be in the plans. Building that car opened me up to a community beyond what I ever imagined, and taken me to a place where I know the roadster won't be my only car build.

The 818 blows me away from the whole concept, a car you can build for less the $15K, a car that won't need to be painted, will kill on the autoX track, and will make an amazing track toy as well. Add in the stuff with the high mileage and integration of multiple bodies and the project is just crazy cool. I have so much respect for the project and how important it has been to Dave to make us a part of it is amazing. I have a huge amount of respect for everyone involved in the project, and certainly everyone who created and shared their designs with us.

I am confident that this car is going to be amazing, and am enjoying seeing it develop. For now that is enough for me, but I'm pretty sure in the not so distant future I'll be asking my self which one do I want to build, and that is going to be a very difficult decision.

-Scott

[Draco-REX]

The added details really help this car and it looks good. If this ends up being the 818, I'd still buy it...

But..

To sum it up simply: This car looks conventional. Conventional doesn't set my hair on fire.

[BipDBo]

There seems to be a consensus that the back of the car is alright, but it's front that people don't like. How about going to a front end more like the GTM. That would give some consitant design language. If you want it to be slightly edgier, you could do something like the front end of this car, the recently unveiled Varley evR450. Just stretch the front wheels forward a bit for a speeper angle over the headlights.
varley-evr450.jpg
My submission had something very similar in concept. It only requires that the radiator be tilted forward at a greater angle.

[skullandbones]

I like what kach22i did with the two edits. It points out that there is hope for the frontend. It took me from "I don't like it" to more of a neutral stance. Subtle changes make a huge difference. Why not go with a little more of the GTM influence as suggested by the last post? That would be worth a look see, at least. WEK.

[mattster03]

I'm in the same boat as a lot of the opinions in this thread... this design does not do a whole lot for me. I also will re-state what many have said, that although not intentional, I feel like we are being 'forced' to appreciate the silver Jim car. Let's be fair to all of the time and effort put into the winning designs as a whole and not on a model that seems to be pieced together from a dozen different designs. It should be obvious by now that the design team/forum favorites are the Xabier & Rodney , I can't wait to see what they look like detailed out in a similar fashion.

[David]

Not go get off-topic - but I keep wondering why this car didn't get more attention? It pushes all the right buttons for me - hair a flam'in! I just couldn't find any other views (maybe that's why it didn't make it to the finals?). Definitely has the right low-slung side view - not mass-market looking.

AnthonySamboer.jpg

That side view is really well proportioned! I like it.