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I can't speak to whether lengthening the UCA's is a good idea or not from a geometry standpoint, but FWIW the FFR UCA's are put together using SPC Performance components. You can find longer adjusters here:
https://www.spcalignment.com/race
MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22.
Build thread here.
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Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
If you are having a tough time sorting out your UPC's, then maybe SPC can help.
They've got all sorts of stuff that may be of use to you.
https://www.spcalignment.com/race
Hope This Helps & Good Luck!
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Member
Originally Posted by
JohnK
I can't speak to whether lengthening the UCA's is a good idea or not from a geometry standpoint, but FWIW the FFR UCA's are put together using SPC Performance components. You can find longer adjusters here:
https://www.spcalignment.com/race
Cool, I hadn’t seen this yet. I am going to try to use the FFR spindles and make the necessary modifications.
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Member
Originally Posted by
GoDadGo
If you are having a tough time sorting out your UPC's, then maybe SPC can help.
They've got all sorts of stuff that may be of use to you.
https://www.spcalignment.com/race
Hope This Helps & Good Luck!
Thanks for the link. I think this is the way to go as well!
Thanks for the encouragement.
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Senior Member
Very cool! I saw one at the first open house I attended and like it. Will be following along to see this one come to fruition.
Kyle
Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.
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Not a waxer
Hey, I found you here after we have had some discussions via Facebook! As I mentioned then frame mods are necessary to relocate the upper control arm mounting points for the proper geometry to be compatible with the FFR spindles. Here is the part number for the kit and the procedure. Note that this is directed to the Challenge car however the front suspension as far as the UCSs are concerned on them, the pre Mk4 roadsters and pre Gen3 Coupes (and therefore the Spyder) is the same.
https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/con...m-retrofit.pdf
You mentioned bump steer, and that will be a big one for you. The rack location was changed to improve the geometry and eliminate bump steer on the Mk3 roadster and later Coupes, long after the Spyders were produced. If you compare where it is located on your Spyder to the Mk4 you'll see that it is lower and farther forward. Any modifications you make to move the rack will also have to consider getting the radiator back to where it belongs and will affect the steering shaft.
None of this is insurmountable; just trying to give you an idea of some of the challenges you may face. I look forward to following along!
Jeff
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Jeff, Thank you again. This is exactly the direction i want to go. Based upon Mike digiorgios recommendation i had followed up with ffr to get that bracket. I haven’t heard back yet. I do still have the Mk4 kit here so i can make a template and with the instructions you’ve provided (So awesome to have), this seems like a no-brained way to go.
I am so appreciative for yours and others willingness to help out on these forums.
The next item to tackle is the pedal box. It seems donor mustang is the only real option without fabrication? Ive mocked up the wilwood pedal box from the mk4 into the frame. It definitely has some challenges (but not insurmountable).
Originally Posted by
Jeff Kleiner
Hey, I found you here after we have had some discussions via Facebook! As I mentioned then frame mods are necessary to relocate the upper control arm mounting points for the proper geometry to be compatible with the FFR spindles. Here is the part number for the kit and the procedure. Note that this is directed to the Challenge car however the front suspension as far as the UCSs are concerned on them, the pre Mk4 roadsters and pre Gen3 Coupes (and therefore the Spyder) is the same.
https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/con...m-retrofit.pdf
You mentioned bump steer, and that will be a big one for you. The rack location was changed to improve the geometry and eliminate bump steer on the Mk3 roadster and later Coupes, long after the Spyders were produced. If you compare where it is located on your Spyder to the Mk4 you'll see that it is lower and farther forward. Any modifications you make to move the rack will also have to consider getting the radiator back to where it belongs and will affect the steering shaft.
None of this is insurmountable; just trying to give you an idea of some of the challenges you may face. I look forward to following along!
Jeff
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I just heard back. So awesome to get good information in a timely way. Again, much appreciated to all who share.
Per mike:
The complete upgrade uses these 3 parts
15154 - relocation bracket
14850 - front spindles
15344 - Upper control arms
Originally Posted by
HotWheelsKid
…Based upon Mike digiorgios recommendation i had followed up with ffr to get that bracket. I haven’t heard back yet.
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Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
Originally Posted by
HotWheelsKid
Thanks for the link. I think this is the way to go as well!
Thanks for the encouragement.
For the record, I begged Dave Smith to build me a Spyder when I ordered my MK-4.
It would have been the perfect platform for my driveline, but Super Dave said "No!" so my Chevy Cobra was born.
Good Luck & Hope To See Your Completed Spyder In Person One Day, Hopefully At Cruising The Coast!
HAPPY WRENCHING, RIVETING, SANDING & ASSEMBLING!
Steve
FF5 MK-4 #8,515
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...-mk4-roadster/
Last edited by GoDadGo; 02-03-2022 at 01:03 PM.
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And repeat!
Originally Posted by
GoDadGo
HAPPY WRENCHING, RIVETING, SANDING & ASSEMBLING!
Once i got the spyder, my mk4 was immediately on the back burner. I like things not everyone has. I can always get the roadster again. Plus with all I’ve learned throughout the wait for it to arrive, i think there’s some things i may do differently when/if i get one in the future.
One thing i know about myself is that I don’t hold onto many things for very long. Especially cars and trucks. There are just too many i want to try out. The goal with the kit/kits, is to slow the turnover down a little bit.
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Did anyone have a suggestion for a pedal box other than a reconditioned original Mustang pedal? The wilwood pedal box i used for the mock up is not mine so i have to remove it. I am also concerned about the rear facing master cylinders into the dash area. If anyone has a recommendation, I’d appreciate it.
Originally Posted by
HotWheelsKid
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Not a waxer
The Wilwood box will require a significant rework to the footbox panels. The advantage to the Wilwood box is the balance bar that allows for easy adjustments to the brake bias.The Mustang box will bolt right in and allow you to bend the pedals to suit your preference. If you're using Mustang derived brakes I'd stick with the Mustang box and master cylinder. It will also allow you to use vacuum assist if desired---don't forget that if you stay with manual brakes the brake pedal has to be modified to change the pivot point for proper leverage.
Jeff
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Major modification and Fabrication. Worth it? Or not?
After a lot of comparing between the MK4 frame and the spyder frame, I’m really aware of how different they are. (Shocker, right).
I want to build this car right within the context of 2022, rather than 2003. I can make the modifications to the frame needed to replicate the MK4 geometry as follows:
1. Remove existing x brace,
2. Install new x brace
2a. New x brace position will move rearward by 1-1.5” (tbd),
2b. Spyder x brace connects to the shock towers just above the frame rails. Mk4 x brace connects to the frame rails. Results in a more “open/wider” x.
3. Spyder steering rack attaches to the frame directly above the front LCA frame attachment. MK4 steering rack attaches to the frame behind the front LCA frame attachment.
Results in a drastic change in steering geometry. Spyder steering is in a straight line from spindle to spindle. MK4 steering is more trapezoid with the spindles/tie rods forward of the rack.
3. Install the SAI mod from FFR
4. Install LCA, new UCA, and FFR spindles, have a beer.
So, to sum, it up:
I need help to understand/decide if the modifications are worth the investment (which I don’t mind making) with the goal of obtaining better steering geometry that i will actually benefit from. Or is it really ok to leave it alone and i will have no complaints with the steering?
I thought i had a set of ffr spindles lined up, but they are no longer available. Unfortunately the FFR spindles i have been using for mockup are not mine and will be gone soon. I will be ordering the new spindles and UCA’s with hopes that they wont take too long to get. So in the meantime, i will build with the existing UCA’s that i have (the old versions) and a set of SN95 spindles that i have laying around.
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Jeff,
Exactly the type of advice i was hoping to receive. Thanks!
If I understand correctly then: If I’m not going to upgrade to wilwoods, and will stay with mustang based brakes, then it’s not necessary to install/fab anything more than the mustang pedal box. Great, saves me time, money, and hassle.
Originally Posted by
Jeff Kleiner
The Wilwood box will require a significant rework to the footbox panels. The advantage to the Wilwood box is the balance bar that allows for easy adjustments to the brake bias.The Mustang box will bolt right in and allow you to bend the pedals to suit your preference. If you're using Mustang derived brakes I'd stick with the Mustang box and master cylinder. It will also allow you to use vacuum assist if desired---don't forget that if you stay with manual brakes the brake pedal has to be modified to change the pivot point for proper leverage.
Jeff
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Tl;dr
Too long; didn’t read -
1. Spyder has old steering geometry:
A. Steering rack sits on top of front LCA mounts. Tie rod end to tie rod end is a straight line.
B. Re-assemble the front end and move on.
2. MK4 has new steering geometry:
A. Steering rack sits behind front LCA mounts. Tie rod ends to tie rod end is a trapezoid shape.
B. Requires a lot of fabrication/time. But it is do-able.
Big question:
Will I be happy enough with the spyder steering as is with SAI mod and SN95 spindles?
Opinions wanted!
Originally Posted by
HotWheelsKid
After a lot of comparing between the MK4 frame and the spyder frame, I’m really aware of how different they are. (Shocker, right).
I want to build this car right within the context of 2022, rather than 2003. I can make the modifications to the frame needed to replicate the MK4 geometry as follows:
1. Remove existing x brace,
2. Install new x brace
2a. New x brace position will move rearward by 1-1.5” (tbd),
2b. Spyder x brace connects to the shock towers just above the frame rails. Mk4 x brace connects to the frame rails. Results in a more “open/wider” x.
3. Spyder steering rack attaches to the frame directly above the front LCA frame attachment. MK4 steering rack attaches to the frame behind the front LCA frame attachment.
Results in a drastic change in steering geometry. Spyder steering is in a straight line from spindle to spindle. MK4 steering is more trapezoid with the spindles/tie rods forward of the rack.
3. Install the SAI mod from FFR
4. Install LCA, new UCA, and FFR spindles, have a beer.
So, to sum, it up:
I need help to understand/decide if the modifications are worth the investment
(which I don’t mind making) with the goal of obtaining better steering geometry that i will actually benefit from. Or is it really ok to leave it alone and i will have no complaints with the steering?
I thought i had a set of ffr spindles lined up, but they are no longer available. Unfortunately the FFR spindles i have been using for mockup are not mine and will be gone soon. I will be ordering the new spindles and UCA’s with hopes that they wont take too long to get. So in the meantime, i will build with the existing UCA’s that i have (the old versions) and a set of SN95 spindles that i have laying around.
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Member
Thanks for the advice on Facebook
Thanks Jeff, Frank and Paul for your responses to my requests for opinions on the Steering setups.
I’ve secured a set of 94-95 spindles (just waiting for them to ship now) and will move forward with the the SAI mod.
I’ll leave the steering rack in its original position, and will use a power rack.
I am also updating the UCAs to the newer FFR design.
Pedal box will also remain Mustang OEM. Jeff has recommended vacuum assist brakes, but i haven’t spent much time figuring that out yet. Next on the list.
Thanks to all!
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Member
The parts delivery dam has finally broken open
Today was a good day!
I finally started to receive parts for the build.
I got most of the Holley sniper EFI system.
Air gap intake
New Fuel tank
Canton oil pan, gasket and pickup.
Love it.
Sniper ignition box and distributor arrive tomorrow.
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Administrator
Regarding pedals, I got my Wilwood setup for my MKIII from Moke Forte. He had his own setup and it might fit the spyder better than a MKIV setup from FFR.
I have the older setup on the front end too. Truth is I don’t even think about it when I’m driving.
FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)
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Member
I’ve just sent him a message. I’m hoping to figure that out. I just prefer the Wilwood products vs a donor box.
Originally Posted by
David Hodgkins
Regarding pedals, I got my Wilwood setup for my MKIII from Moke Forte. He had his own setup and it might fit the spyder better than a MKIV setup from FFR.
I’m very glad to hear that. Can’t wait to finally get all my parts in and finally start assembling.
Originally Posted by
David Hodgkins
I have the older setup on the front end too. Truth is I don’t even think about it when I’m driving.
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Looks like a wonderful Christmas Morning!
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Member
You’re right. More parts today. Parts tomorrow. And just got a fedex notification, 154lbs of parts coming from ffr too! Woohoo!
Originally Posted by
Jimtmich
Looks like a wonderful Christmas Morning!
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Member
Finally got the 25th anniversary wheels in!
I had ordered these with my mk4 but they will be staying on the spyder. So happy to have finally received them.
They are not 100% match to the sniper but close enough with the distance they’ll be apart from each other.
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You were trying to match your wheels to the throttle body???
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Ltngdrvr
You were trying to match your wheels to the throttle body???
I respect it.
MK4 #10008 - Ordered 10/06/20, Delivered 03/03/21, First Start 7/22/21, First Go Kart 7/24/21
Paint by Metal Morphous 5/14/22, Legally registered 6/8/22, Graduated 7/20/22
Build Thread
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...been-delivered
Complete Kit, Ford 306, Sniper/Dual Sync, T5, Hydraulic clutch
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Member
What a guy! Mike Forte
I am super happy to now know mike @ Forte's Parts Connection.
He had the hook-up on a bunch of parts I needed,but I’m most happy about this one!
Wilwood gen1 pedal box with mount.
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Member
It’ll be the little things …. That kill me …. And my budget.
Originally Posted by
Ltngdrvr
You were trying to match your wheels to the throttle body???
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Member
Thanks man. I thoroughly enjoy reading your build thread. So glad you take the time to document it so well.
Originally Posted by
Blitzboy54
I respect it.