Challenge: Bump Steer Kit + Manual Steering arms

[StromSpeed]

New Challenge Car build, installing the bump steering kit and installing manual steering.
Question is on the steering arms: manual says to install the steering arms on the spindles with taper facing down. Manual says that if you have manual steering, install the bump steer eyelets "on top" of the steering arms. So the question is: do I need to fllip-flop the steering arms so that the taper on those arms are now facing up, to accommodate the bump eyelets that will install on top? Does it matter?

[Brian Z]

With manual steering the rod ends will sit on top of the steering arm. The arms will not need to be switched as the taper will have to be drilled out with the bump steer kit. A bolt will replace the tapered ball joints.

Let me know if you would like me to e-mail you the instructions.

Best regards,

[StromSpeed]

Thanks for the info. Yes, please send instructions.
Also, 1) I noticed that I did not receive the washers and spacers with the bump steer kit. Is this in another package?
2) The tie rod ends on the rack are very long. With the outter tie rod spun all the way on, and the rod ends (eyelets) spun all the way in, I still can't get a neutral angle; its still toe-out. I can't achieve toe-in. Do I need to modify/cut the tie rods on the rack?

Thanks.

With manual steering the rod ends will sit on top of the steering arm. The arms will not need to be switched as the taper will have to be drilled out with the bump steer kit. A bolt will replace the tapered ball joints.

Let me know if you would like me to e-mail you the instructions.

Best regards,

[Brian Z]

It is common to have to trim a little off of the inner tie rod to get the proper toe in with the manual steering rack. You can start by taking 1/4" off of each side. When you cut the end leave the jam nut threaded on so you can unthread it and chase over the threads after you make the cut.

If you PM me your e-mail I can send you the instructions.

Kind regards,

[StromSpeed]

Will do, thanks!!

It is common to have to trim a little off of the inner tie rod to get the proper toe in with the manual steering rack. You can start by taking 1/4" off of each side. When you cut the end leave the jam nut threaded on so you can unthread it and chase over the threads after you make the cut.

If you PM me your e-mail I can send you the instructions.

Kind regards,

[Mark Dougherty]

let me ask what spindles you have.
this will decide alot when it comes to bump steer.

[StromSpeed]

I have the latest FFR version that come with the Mk4 Challenge.

let me ask what spindles you have.
this will decide alot when it comes to bump steer.

[StromSpeed]

I cut off 3/4" on each side and successfully achieved toe-in!
Thanks for the help!

It is common to have to trim a little off of the inner tie rod to get the proper toe in with the manual steering rack. You can start by taking 1/4" off of each side.

[Brian Z]

3/4" of an inch sounds like it's alot! You weren't trying to get the toe in while it was up on jack stands, were you? It changes alot when it is sitting at ride height.

[CHOTIS BILL]

Brian,

By definition a bump steer kit should make it so that there is no change in toe when the car is moved up or down. So there should be no change in toe when the car is up on jack stands.

Bill Lomenick

[Jim Schenck]

Brian is correct, the bumpsteer kit simply means that you can now adjust the bumpsteer, and that needs to be done after the car is aligned. To be sure that your tie rods are correct I would check the car on the ground just to be safe.

[CHOTIS BILL]

Sorry that I was lazy and didn’t make my point clear. After the bump steer kit is installed and adjusted correctly the toe should stay the same through the entire wheel travel and shouldn’t change alot when it is sitting at ride height unless you are purposely trying to induce toe in or toe out in roll in order to correct a handling problem.
Jim you are correct double checking everything is always a good idea.

Bill Lomenick

[Brian Z]

Bill,

The bump steer kit optimizes the bump steer through a range of suspension travel, but at full droop the toe will still change. This is why you have to check your alignment at ride height.

[CHOTIS BILL]

Good to know.

Just out of curiosity what is the suspension travel on a gen2 type 65 coupe if the ride height is set at 4 inches front and rear?

Thanks,

Bill Lomenick

[StromSpeed]

Yes, its still on jack stands, and without the outer tie rod (blue cylinder), just matching up the rod end to the steering tie rod both wheels were about 15 deg toe-out! This is with the tie rod end mounting to the TOP of the steering arm. I don't see how landing the car would improve that. But there is definitely enough adjustability in the outer tie rod now removing 3/4" from the tie rod for my MANUAL steering set-up. If it was POWER steering with the mount point being lower, then this could have been 0.25" to remove. The install manual states you should start with the 1.25" of the tie rod threaded into the outer tie rod. I'm sitting at 2.25" now at neutral, and the rod end is at the stated 0.75".

[Brian Z]

You don't have to see how it would affect it. You just have to put it on the ground and see what happens! We have done this more than a few times.

Best regards,