Milk Carton Guy Looking for Advice

[Jeff Kleiner]

Granted sending a "ringer" to the ring (no pun intended) or VIR or elsewhere could generate some coverage, but the flipside would be that even though the basic build's performance numbers are expected to be respectable they would be a letdown in comparison. What's the majority of the customer base really going to build; a street/occasional HPDE/auto-x car with some mild tweeks or a no holds barred track monster? I think we all know the answer to that... Keep it real and attainable.

Jeff

[Steve91T]

The one track in the US that might be a good fit would be the full course at VIR, the same one that Car and Driver runs their 'Lightning Lap' on. To have the 818 top or place well in this group of cars would be a great marketing point. Current list can be found here: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2011-page-8

I agree.

[Mad Dog]

We've made some updates to the website and Dave told me he wanted to post a few images before Open House. Here is the 818-R concept. It is a evolution of Jim's original design in a track car focused body.

[Mechie3]

EDIT: Doh! It was a new pic, it was posted while I was busy uploading photos.


Whoa...whoa. Maybe my computer was just dumb in the past, but I haven't seen this pic on the landing page for the 818 until this morning. HOT! Quick, someone post the "shut up and take my money" pic. I'm too busy drooling to find it. Love the color scheme.

[Mad Dog]

Here's a video of Automobile Magazine writer Ezra Dyer introducing the new McClaren and comparing it to our GTM. The reason I posted it here is he drives the 818 chassis at the end of the video with sounds of the engine off-idle.



Click here to watch the Yahoo Autos video

[skullandbones]

You guys need another cup of coffee, seeing the go-kart wizz around a parking lot Auto X course is a far cry from being ready for a balls out lap around the Nordschliefe. And where would FFR find the additional resources to support the track development time needed when they are obviously burning the midnight oil just to finish getting the car designed. It's a fantastic idea but it's not going to happen unless someone steps up with the resources (and funds) to make it happen.

I've seen two extreme examples so far with the ZR1 and on another thread the "Atom Smasher" discussion. These are exotic technologies compared to the 818 project which really don't compare.

The main reason for marketing the street version is because of a real difference in the potential customers. If you have seen the multitudes of WRX, STI, etc out there that go buzzing by you on a daily basis, you know that those are not 40 to 55 guys but a completely different demographic. So the DD is also the race toy however much or little they really race. When I was 17, I had a 55 Chevy big block with street slicks (two grooves cut in an 11 in slick) and a flip fiberglass front end. I raced it some legally and on the street but 95% of the time it was my DD. If it was broken, I walked or borrowed my mother's car. Shift forward to 2012. There are a lot of guys just like that who can afford to be in an 818 which is a natural progression for them with the familiar technology. This has not and will not be like any other experience for FFR as the roadster, spec racer, GTM, hot rod, and coupe are going to customers of a different age and economic demographic (statistically speaking). IMO WEK.

[bobzdar]

We've made some updates to the website and Dave told me he wanted to post a few images before Open House. Here is the 818-R concept. It is a evolution of Jim's original design in a track car focused body.

It looks good. Not HOF by a long shot, but not bad.

I'm not sure why this body was chosen as it was universally panned when last shown (did anybody like it?), but it's improved since the last time we saw it. It's well proportioned now, where before it wasn't. The problem is that it's just very bland, breaks no new ground anywhere, looks like a 5-7 year old design instead of something cutting edge. I think FF has played it too safe, but I guess the take away is that it doesn't turn me off of the car, but a little disappointing none the less.

Edit: Looks too close to a tiburon from 2005-2007 (hey, 5-7 years old was right on)...

[skullandbones]

I think there are a lot of racers who would take it as is. If you were going to use it as a street legal car, not so much. Is that a GTM wing? Are the halos tall enough to be considered functional? Maybe the driver sits very low in the cockpit or maybe the low profile is just for this presentation. WEK.

[shinn497]

Wowzers!

It looks better....but I don't know why. Actually It reminds me of a blend of a viper and a le mans prototype car. Doesn't look as sweeping or exotic as I hoped. But it has a sense of just right to it. It looks ALOT like the GT-M's younger cousin.

While I'm a little let down the change isn't so dramatic from jim's design, I do love the changes and think they are very appropriate. Lower profile hood, smoother side skirts, big side vents, good meld between the roll bars and the body.

Btw this car screems low profile, it is just melting into the ground and looks wrapped around those tires. It screams aerodynamics, low COD, and downforce. If the street version looks like this it would work very well with an aggressive lip.

I wanted rodney's update, but I'd be pretty proud to drive this. It's gorgeous, unique and very factory five.

[Sebxb]

I like it.

Like the side vents where the rear seem to be getting wider. Like the front end. Yes it does look like the GTM's little cousin and I guess it's fine and makes sense.

Like it was said, looks less exotic than I wished for but a little 'classier' while still looking fast and low. More pics with different angles would probably reveal small details and perspectives that will make me like it even more.

Nice to hear the engine's sound at the end of the video!!

[prematureapex]

That'll do Dave!

[Nuul]

I'm very happy with the way it looks. Well done guys.

[thestigwins]

I think the car looks awesome. I am just curious what the car will look like with a solid color and full windshield. I will buy one without a doubt. It's time to start looking for a donor.

[Mike N]

The street version of that car is certainly not going to grab attention it's going to look too much like any other main stream 2 seat convertible. Imagine the car posted with no graphics, no wing and a full windshield parked at a typical tuner car show, the car wouldn't stand out at all it would just disappear into the crowd. Where's the aggressive edgy styling that we are all looking for?

[riptide motorsport]

that yahoo autos was a great plug for FFR. the car sounded good from what
I could hear.

[dclin]

If you guys are going with this body style to lead, then I would definitely say spot light the track version. I'm a bit worried that the street version would simply be a little too bland. I think I would feel the same way as I do the GTM; looks good in red/white/blue race livery on the website, but the solid color street versions are 'meh'.

Still though, it is an improvement over the original. Not sure about all the busy lines going on in the grill area, but all in all its ok. Good job so far. Can't wait to see the alternate body styles.

[Mechie3]

I will admit, the front bumper is my least favorite aspect of that car, but overall I love it. I still like the large gaping 3 mouth opening of Xabier's design the best. It looked more like a lambo or the new exige that isn't available for the US.

I think most modern-ish high end cars are using a large agressive air dam/grille. Overall though, the car reminds me of the lotus 2-11 or a lemans racecar.

[prematureapex]

I, for one, was hoping it wouldn't be too over the top with the design. Give me a clean, good looking 2 seater. Nothing wrong with a little bit under the radar. It's what's under the body that we're interested in.

I never could envision how some of the more popular designs would be implemented into production without serious budget concerns. Too many parts, too many body inserts required. Then there's the risk of it looking WAY TOO out there once implemented in full size. Simple, clean, with a bit of flare...aok with me.

[StatGSR]

that car could be great if the front didn't look so jumbled together.... seriously, those Camry headlights have bugged the crap out of me since day one and the rest of the bumper doesn't do much for me either. I was really hoping i would be excited about what i would see and now that i have, I'm far less excited....

[DrieStone]

It looks good, but not HOF. What I fear is that if this is the 818R, bad to the bone, then the standard kit is going to look tame, and... well average. I'm going to wait and see what the final car really looks like (in person), but my own opinion went from 80% sure I'll buy, to significantly less. I know we were shooting for the stars, and maybe my own expectations were unreasonable, but this just doesn't "do it" for me (hopefully I'm the minority because I really want this car to be a success, even if I don't have one).

[Mechie3]

Somebody with better photoshop skills than me should try grafting on different front bumpers to the 818R.

[GUNS]

Here are my initial observations. I love the rear quarter of the car! Nice wide curves and I'm anxious to see how this flows with the rear. Now the part I don't like, the front. The headlights look way to big for the car and I don't like the pure horizontal alignment, it makes it look too plain. I also don't like how high the center of the hood is. I would love to see this part dip down a bit accentuating the wheel arches (ie similar to the Exige pictured above or Rodney's design). I also agree with the comments about the grill, seems too busy.

Overall it's not bad. I'm definitely not blown away, but as it stands I would still build one. I'm anxious to see more angles and the street version. Thanks for the hard work Dave and all at FFR. Feed us more pics if you can!

[ScottKoschwitz]

I like it. Can't put my finger on specific changes, but it looks swoopier, with some nice curves and flares. Is there a little Coke bottle design in the middle, or is the paint scheme playing with my eyes?

I thought of the Lotus 2-11 when I saw it, and can see the GTM influence -- I like both of those attributes.

This is not HoF for me yet, but it definitely keeps my interest -- and that's all I expect at this stage.

[dbjr63]

i hate the front bumper cover (grill). i do like how low and smooth it looks. i hope the hardtop body will look more cutting edge than this one.

i still plan to buy the hardtop as long as it does not look like rice burner that i can buy from a dealership.

[leetfade]

Interesting concept. I agree on the grill / front-end not really being attention grabbing but we will see what the final version has! The rear lines (from what we can see) I really like!

[Drew P]

I think it looks great. I have been dreaming about what the final body would look like. I think it meets the design goals well. I'm wondering if the windshield from the roadster would be possible to add. I don't see a reason why it couldn't be. I know it is a track car, but I would still want to be able to drive it on the street without having to worry about getting hit in the face with rocks.

[shim2]

Looks good. A lot better than Jim's original design. Hell I'd buy it.

I actually like it quite a bit. First time I seen the CAD file posted a few weeks ago I was immediately turned off. This is a very good step forward and if it's the final body it will turn heads. Good job.

Someone with photoshop skills should throw a window onto it. See how the 818 would look.

[BipDBo]

If first impressions are really what you're looking for, when I first saw it, I nearly yelled out loud:
"HOLY SH_T!!"

Looks awesome.

I was critical on a few points over the preliminary renderings:
* Camry headlights: These no longer look like they came from a Camry or anything else OEM.
* Humps behind seats: They looked wrong without seeing it with the screen and roll bar, but now, at least from this angle, they look great.

Also a surprise is the lack of a full windshield and no doors. I notice a bar extending from the roll hoop forward blocking any possibility of doors. This is how I originally envisioned the track model, but had thought a different direction was taken. I think it's a good path. Without doors and windshield, I would speculate that the track version is slightly lighter than the 1800# goal. It 's likely a bit safer without the doors as well. Any plans for more cage work? These surprises definitely differentiate this version a bit from the road version.

The only think that I might be critical of are scoops that might not do anything. Faux air scoops look really tacky to me. I'm not sure why there would need to be scoops on both the top and sides of the rear fender. Also, what do the scoops in front of the front wheels do? If these scoops have a function, then great, keep em. Otherwise, I'd rather see smooth bodywork.

Since the cat is out of the bag, I wouldn't mind seeing some more angles.

This track version, though looks to be a perfect low cost one-design series racer. I'll be waiting for a coupe version, something that could be a daily driver, but this makes me excited t see the other versions (eventually).

For everyone with less enthusiastic responses, in my experience, bad looking cars usually look worse in person and good looking cars usually look much better. I'd bet this will look awesome in the flesh.

[Mechie3]

As long as the scoop are opened (ie, not solid closed like older mustang scoops) I like them. Some cooling for the motor/trans, and it says "oh, hey....the motor is back here guys" :lol: I think it looks more aggressive with the scoops.

I would actually DD the track version, but wear a helmet. After seeing how my WRX front end folded up last Tuesday and how I walked away with little more than a bruise, I've become a little more safety conscious. I was always comfortable with my driving abilities, I'm just now even less comfortable with others (especially those that run red lights).

[scartaan]

I agree with most of the comments. The 2-tone paint @ the doors lighten the look and add appeal. I was hoping for more Rodney influence, however. His more
Coke-bottle approach and short overhangs had a McLaren F1 type look to it. Does the picture of the Olmos coupe on the main site indicate anything?

[PhyrraM]

Styling is bland. However, I was always in the 'it's the engineering and performance that will sell it' camp. (or more infamously "Styling won't matter")

I do find it curious how when it was suggested a few weeks ago that the final design could be a revamp of Jims design, many shut the thought down as not possible. (Because Dave stated "Jim's design is dead"?)

[Mike N]

Graft these grill openings and splitter onto the FFR rendering shown and you would add a bit of that edginess back. Can anyone PS that quickly?

[07FIREBLADE]

Only if it had the grille of the exige then it would be hotter imo... Like what others said the front end is a little to bland. Hopefully the street version will be up this week so we can see the differences.

[shim2]

Grill does need a bit more work. Also, I think the reason they left the vents on the rear fenders is because it's functional and probably is only way for air to get to intercooler. At least that's my guess.

[07FIREBLADE]

I think many people shot down the idea that it would be revamp design of Jim's was because they were hoping it wouldn't be true and if there was enough protest then they might change it some more to make it better or different all together. The only changes that I would like to see done to this model on it would be HoF would be a different front end with more of Xabier's influence or the exige, and the humps to go a bit higher and surround the roll bar a bit more like the porsche 918 spyder.

[metalmaker12]

Graft these grill openings and splitter onto the FFR rendering shown and you would add a bit of that edginess back. Can anyone PS that quickly?

I agree with most of you that the overall car is good looking, but the front grill sections needs more openings to make me happier. I am still buying it, but hope the front end gets an update

[ncmcn]

Sold!

[RM1SepEx]

Mad Dog, Dave said post a few before the open house... let's see some more including a street version

I think a tweaked Xabier's design would have stood out more, been more unique

I'm happy with the design and look forward to building one as soon as possible. It looks like an evolution a baby GTM with the haunches, big scoops on the sides... My way laid donor is on the road again be here by Thursday for sure!

As an old fart I think it looks very well done with strong sharp lines that accent the expected power of the car. Are we going to need wider wheels or spacers in the rear to fill out those wheel wells?

[Gary in NJ]

It's a rear/mid engine car, it doesn't require a large frontal area. The opening needs to be large enough to get adequate air through the radiator. No more.

I don't seeing adding grill space for looks, especially when you consider the drag that such an opening would create.

[dbjr63]

Why make the grill bigger? Keep it clean and smooth just like the GTM. Also make the grill opens on the hood bigger (like the GTM).