Massachusetts Post Deadline Emission and Blue Tag

[fxps02]

Has anyone gone through the registration and inspection process in Massachusetts since the April deadline?

[dsmith74]

I haven't yet, but I'm preparing to do so...very soon, or at least attempt to do so.
Doesn't look like it's going to anything close to easy, going to be a lot of headaches.
You're probably already familiar, but basically the new law states that your car's emissions testing guidelines will be based on the year of the engine you have installed in the car. So if you have a 93 302 block, then you will be tested based on 93 guidelines. This means there are no actual emissions testing...since anything pre-96/OBDII isn't tested for emissions. BUT, your car will need to go through the MAC process/pre-inspection before you can get the car inspected at an inspection station.
When you go to the MAC they will do a visual test to verify that the engine is in the same configuration as the donor car it came out of. This means that you need all the same smog/emissions gear that was in the donor car, same type of transmission, same rear end gear ratio etc... Otherwise you'll fail the pre-inspection and you can't get your car inspected for a sticker.
This isn't to mention that if you're car isn't already titled, you'll need to go through the state police salvage process/inspection to get a VIN and title.

Not going to be fun.

[fxps02]

I spoke to a guy named Paul at the Medford MAC. I had been in an inspector’s class with him a few years ago and found him to be helpful enough, although a bit zealous. Now that the deadline has past he said directly that until they are told otherwise everything goes back to the way it was before the "SEMA" legislation. Because I am planning a pre 1970 small block I figured I would sail through the process, unfortunately he said I would need a donor V.I.N. and the exact configuration right down to the air cleaner, trans, gears, ect. As soon as I mentioned Factory Five he quickly said that side pipes are not going to happen. His rendition doesn't at all seem reasonable; however, he is the guy I would need to see. As far as the State Police "blue tag" experience, I went through it previously with a custom motorcycle without issue. Simply have all your docs correct, and don't expect them to be less than thorough.

Please share your experience.

[dsmith74]

I spoke to a few guys in various MAC's and I got the same impression, now that Apr. 30th has come and gone...as far as they know and have been told, everything is back to pre-SEMA guidelines.
It doesn't seem reasonable at all, there are going to be a lot of people that were mid-project...or just about done, that missed the deadline, and have 10's of thousands of dollars into their cars...and now they have no chance of getting them on the road? Doesn't seem right... It's going to be interesting to see how things shake out.

[Joe Mush]

I haven't gone through MAC yet but I did get my VIN April 26th. Will they look at mine being before the dead line?

Joe

[dsmith74]

I'm not sure, this is the kind of situation I was wondering about... You may have to call the RMV or MAC to find out:

"Street rods and custom vehicles, as defined and registered pursuant to section 2H of chapter 90, shall receive an emissions waiver certificate. Specially constructed vehicles and replica vehicles, as defined and registered pursuant to said section 2H of said chapter 90, and registered on or before April 30, 2012, shall receive an emissions waiver certificate. Specially constructed vehicles and replica vehicles, as so defined, registered after April 30, 2012 shall be subject to emission control requirements based on the model year and configuration of the engine installed in the specially constructed or replica vehicle, whether the engine is an original equipment manufacturer’s production engine, rebuilt engine or crate engine."

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/Se...010/Chapter311

[dsmith74]

Joe,

This is exactly the kind of situation I was wondering about...how are they going to accommodate guys like yourself?
The guidelines seem to imply that the car has to be registered by Apr. 30th 2012...or else the post Apr. 30th guidelines apply:

SECTION 3. Subsection (b) of section 142M of chapter 111 of the General Laws, as so appearing, is hereby amended by inserting after the third paragraph the following paragraph:-

"Street rods and custom vehicles, as defined and registered pursuant to section 2H of chapter 90, shall receive an emissions waiver certificate. Specially constructed vehicles and replica vehicles, as defined and registered pursuant to said section 2H of said chapter 90, and registered on or before April 30, 2012, shall receive an emissions waiver certificate. Specially constructed vehicles and replica vehicles, as so defined, registered after April 30, 2012 shall be subject to emission control requirements based on the model year and configuration of the engine installed in the specially constructed or replica vehicle, whether the engine is an original equipment manufacturer’s production engine, rebuilt engine or crate engine."

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/Se...010/Chapter311

I hope I'm wrong though.

[fxps02]

My understanding was that a MAC had to emission exempt your vehicle by April 30 regardless of the blue tag date of assignment.

[Joe Mush]

That doesn't seem right. I am going to call on Monday and will let you know what they say.

[fxps02]

Please do, I'm extremely interested in the feedback.
How is your car set-up?

[oldguy668]

The procedure is to get the VIN, get your plates, get a rejection sticker, visit the MAC and then get a real sticker. The PLATES had to have been issued by April 30.

[Joe Mush]

I should be all set. Got my plates April 26 and that is the date on my title. I will post next week when I go.

Thanks for posting oldguy668

fxps02 Car is a GTM with a 2000 LS1.

[jkeast]

I spoke with "Erik" at the MAC and he also mentioned what fxps02 wrote above. Erik also noted that even the emission stickers from the factory need to be affixed in the engine compartment. However, the jury is still out on crate engines (non-donor). They are still working out how to handle the emissions requirements for crates. I was told to call back in a few months to see if any headway has been made but as of now no new rules on crates. This was one of the reason why I went with the complete kit as I got the sense that it will take a while...

[0100]

Oh man this sucks. Was planning on putting a JDM engine in my 818, I guess that won't fly....

[josrodes]

I got my car registered this summer, after the April deadline, 87 donor, 1971 shortblock.

My 60 days of driving with the R sticker are about to expire, so I decided to finally deal with the elephant and scheduled an appointment at the Medford MAC center.

Today was the day, I talked to Paul over there, he made copies of all the papers and told me he had to check what to do in this case and that he was going to get back to me in about a week.

The only way he would move on was if the engine/heads/intake/carb transmission and rear end came of the same pre emissions vehicle(before 1972). In my case is a little of a Frankenstein, with a 71 block and everything on top of it from my 87 donor.

Wondering if someone else have been able to go through this part of the process after the April deadline.

Wondering if I will be able to get it legal, my feeling is that driving season is over, and that I will be able to drive for 60 days every 6 months.

Am I being too negative? What will new builders do in MA?

[fxps02]

josrodes,

I would be grateful if you could keep posting as you make your way through this process. I spoke to Paul also and found it hard not become very frustrated with what seems to be a very unreasonable position. I like to think this situation just needs to be worked through; however, it's challenging not to become negative after the investment of time and money.

Did he make mention of the sides pipes?

[alsab44]

Does this mean no crate engines or side exhaust without all emissions hardware for Massachussets?
I am really not interested in creating a $50,000 headache or garage decoration.

[fxps02]

My current understanding is that crate engines are out, which I don't think is a deal breaker personally; it's the side pipes that concern me more. I'm watching closely to see what the people that are going through the process now are finding before I close the book on building a car.

[josrodes]

Sorry guys, I also posted in the other forum and got most of the attention there, bringing you guys up to speed.

I received the mail from Paul at the Medford MAC. The letter contained the same law we had in 1994.
Here is a link to the document he sent me: http://www.epa.gov/oms/imports/kitcar.htm

If this is really what they will go by, with no compromises, I don't see a way here for me to use my 1971 block as the certified drivetrain.

It seems at this point that my only option going by the law is to put in all the emissions components of my 87 donor back in and try to get it through as an 87 donor.

For now, I have some friends trying to see what they can do to help me with the process...

I will keep you guys posted.

As for the side pipes, he didn't mentioned anything, but you never know maybe he is just keeping a card under the sleeve to make me even more upset, these guys are amazing at doing that...

[fxps02]

Josrodes:

Thanks for the update, could you post a link to the other forum you mentioned? I would like to collect as much information before moving forward.

The reason I am so concerned about the side pipes is the fact that Paul went out of his way to mention them. Perhaps that is an issue for the inspection station itself, which I’m not concerned about.

[josrodes]

Yes, the MAC center is supposed to be first inspection only, but... my understanding is that once you get it as a donor, 87 lets say(pre ODBII), every year when getting the new sticker at your usual inspection station, they will do a visual inspection to make sure you have all the required emissions components for the original vehicle, and only then, they will give you the sticker.

If you have a ODBII or later engine donor(4.6L or coyote let's say), other than the visual inspection, they will actually hook it up to the computer and make sure you pass the emissions the same way that the original car had to.

So, from my point of view, swapping out to a different engine in the first case wont work since the visual inspection will reveal you now have a carb and no catalytic converters let's say, and for the second donor case it would be even less compliant once they hook it up to the computer.

The other forum... ffcars.com(sorry FFR if I'm not allowed to point people there). I posted on the "Northeast Region" section. Thread name is "MAC center and "new" law..."

Anybody with more info about this topic, please post, we need to figure this out for everyone, this law will impact many small business in the area(FFR/Forte/Breeze/MikeEverson) and all of the MA new builders.

Good luck,
Jose

[fxps02]

Jose,

I agree with your overview; however, I am not as worried about the annual visual inspection. I have considered as a plan “B” perhaps simply using a 4.6L donor complete with emissions and OBDII, then adding a Kenne Bell system. The one challenge that seems impossible to solve is the exhaust, if in fact that is a problem. I would be grateful if you would keep posting your experience as you make your way through the process. As you stated it has a big impact to builders in this state.

Thanks,
Craig

[josrodes]

Will keep on posting here too.

As far as the exhaust goes, he didn't mentioned anything, he took many pictures of the car and for sure saw them, but didn't say anything about them(I did pointed out to him that he was getting to close to them and that he could get burn ).
I don't see anything in the law that talks about that part, and the impression I got from him, is that he is an Honest guy, that will just go by the law, will do nothing to help you, nothing to do you wrong, just go by the law. But I could be really wrong about the whole thing.

Jose

[fxps02]

Your impression of him is spot on in my opinion. I had him as an instructor a few years ago for a heavy duty certification class he ran. Certainly he was helpful and honest; however, there is no shades of grey in his overview. The law, as presented to him, is what he will go by.

Craig

[FFinisher]

Guys, I have built 3 cars that are OBD II compliant in Mass and successfully gotten inspection stickers. The rules do not exclude you from building a car, you have to follow the rules.

I would strongly advise against suggesting ways to get around the rules,suggesting building the car one way for the inspection then changing it later or any other ways of breaking the law on a public forum.

This puts you at risk, as well as anyone else who is building a car.( one could say it puts the entire hobby at risk)

Why would side exhaust be an issue, no one has ever said side exhaust is unacceptabe?

The people who make these rules, create the laws and enforce the laws follow forums such as these,

The mere suggestion of covert behaviors causes suspicion for us all.

I have had a very positive experiences at the MAC center, They have a job to do, and don't write the laws.

[fxps02]

FFinisher:

Information such as your experience is exactly why I started this thread with the question “Has anyone gone through the registration and inspection process in Massachusetts since the April deadline?” That knowledge is highly valued and in short supply. My intention was certainly not to ruin the hobby by floating ideas for discussion. You mentioned that one simply needs to follow the rules, which is the entire point I am trying to get to, what are the rules? You also mentioned that the MAC center has a job to do and they didn’t create the laws governing our sport. I agree, which is why I started with the individual who I would be dealing with at the local MAC center figuring if I was on the same page at the beginning of a build, the process would be smooth by definition. That is where I was directly told as soon as I mentioned the words Factory Five that “side pipes are not going to fly.” Again, I’m asking questions not giving answers. If the post deadline deal is that a complete donor equals no hassle, than great. I would be plenty satisfied with OBDII, fuel injection, legal sticker, and no problem with resale. When I contacted both Factory Five itself, then directly to a MAC center, it was not presented so clear cut. Someone who has successfully passed 3 cars in Massachusetts since the April deadline has an amazing opportunity to help save a mountain of aggravation for other enthusiasts. Someone who talks down to and/or scolds those who seek that knowledge, “one could say it puts the entire hobby at risk.”

Craig