818 to 918

[Rockraven]

What if a small company offered a comprehensive body kit in gelcoat, including lights, glass, vents, trim and hardware, based on the $800,000 Porsche 918? What would you pay for it over and above the $9995 818 kit? $8000? $10,000? Essentially, we're talking about a finished car that looks very much like the pictures for around $25,000. Interested in the feedback.


Porsche-918.jpg

Porsche-918-RSR-1.jpg

Prototype-Porsche-918-Spyder-in-Martini-Racing-design-1.jpg

[riptide motorsport]

Depends on alot of things........foremost quality.

[Rockraven]

Of course. Assume the best quality possible with a gelcoat body, DOT glass and lights (assuming there's aftermarket light units that are very close) and hardware.

[GUNS]

No. I don't want to look a like car, I personally think it's kind of cheap. I get it if it's a replica of an older design, but not a new design. I much preferer a unique design than a knock off.

[Twinspool]

As Ständer-inducing as the 918 is, it's a Porsche and should remain as such. Let Der Schenckmeister practice his craft in his inimitably American fashion and enjoy it.

Porsche will be copying Factory five in another few years IMHO. At a minimum the P-car board of directors will have a come-to-Jesus meeting about why all the smartest, best looking, most talented drivers are driving "zees verflucht kit-autos!"

[Rockraven]

No. I don't want to look a like car, I personally think it's kind of cheap. I get it if it's a replica of an older design, but not a new design. I much preferer a unique design than a knock off.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree if I was talking about a Lambo, Ferrari or 911 knock off. But this is a car that most will never see outside of pictures, and it wouldn't be an exact replica anyways... just the look, which many people seem to like.

[jkrueger]

That is a nice looking car. Since I don't have $800K to buy one I'd buy a good quality kit.

[StatGSR]

If I wanted a fake car I would have a lambo fiero already....

[Xusia]

I think the 918 is awesome looking, and would love to drive something that looked like it. I also have no issues with a high quality reproduction of a newer car.

All that said, one of the reasons - though not the only one - I'm interested in the 818 is price. Another $8k on top would simply exceed my budget. Also weighing in for me is the impracticality of replacing a perfectly good body provided with the kit by FFR. That's a waste of money; money I don't have to waste.

So the bottom line is that if FFR provided a body option that looked like the 918, I'd definitely consider it, but I wouldn't consider spending an additional $8k on it over and above the kit price. And if your next question is "how much would I spend," the answer is probably not more than $2k. But I don't believe you could deliver a high quality body kit for that price and make any money at it, so it's kinda a no-win situation (with someone like me anyway).

[skullandbones]

Here is another situation that FFR would stay away from like the plague. FFR has had success with the roadster and coupe but fought many legal battles. I think that's why they stayed away from the GT40 replica (GTM instead). The 818 is another example of the new direction for FFR. There were no issues with replicating a 33 Ford, either. So it is very unlikely you will see a replica of a car that is in production for the above reasons. WEK.

[Mechie3]

For $2k...maybe. I do like the look of it, but I'd also feel like a scammer/cheat trying to (if not intentionally) make people think I own an $800k car. For double the cost of the kit? No thanks.

[Rockraven]

Here is another situation that FFR would stay away from like the plague. FFR has had success with the roadster and coupe but fought many legal battles. I think that's why they stayed away from the GT40 replica (GTM instead). The 818 is another example of the new direction for FFR. There were no issues with replicating a 33 Ford, either. So it is very unlikely you will see a replica of a car that is in production for the above reasons. WEK.

Agree 100%, and Dave said something about it to this effect. However, a 3rd party body supplier removes this headache from FFR.

[Rockraven]

For $2k...maybe. I do like the look of it, but I'd also feel like a scammer/cheat trying to (if not intentionally) make people think I own an $800k car. For double the cost of the kit? No thanks.

Funny... most people don't have that hangup with a $600,000 Shelby Cobra or $4 million Shelby Daytona.

[Zoolander428]

I would be interested in a more detailed/coupe type body, however as others stated I wouldn't want it to be a copy of another vehicle. An original-ish design with the same or better build quality that FFR will be putting out, and I'd consider it.

Another big IF - is we still haven't seen the final design/car & options. I can't really say I'd be interested in alternative designs until I see the final, original product.

[Niburu]

Funny... most people don't have that hangup with a $600,000 Shelby Cobra or $4 million Shelby Daytona.

most well versed car people are going to automatically assume it's a kit when you see one of those
and when you roll up at an autocross or a road course event you'll still get nods of approval
roll up in a 918 wannabe and I doubt the reaction will be ovrewhelmingly positive

[Jeff Kleiner]

...roll up in a 918 wannabe and I doubt the reaction will be ovrewhelmingly positive

Good chance that many of the uninformed (i.e.; 99.8% of the general population) will ask what year Fiero you started with.

Jeff

[Someday I Suppose]

It removes the headache from FFR and puts in on the shoulders of the 3rd Party Body Supplier. I am guessing it would take Porche about a week to take care of a situation like that.

Agree 100%, and Dave said something about it to this effect. However, a 3rd party body supplier removes this headache from FFR.

[carbon fiber]

imho, it would be better as an original design than an outright copy of something else. that being said, it could still contain traits from other vehicles incorparated into the styling. one of the major problems with the 918 replica would be the interior. the 918 interior is brilliant, and with lots of exposed carbon fiber. i know we were talking about exterior, but eventually you gotta look inside.

[Xusia]

I doubt the reaction will be ovrewhelmingly positive

I gave up caring what others think years ago. This car is for ME.

[PhyrraM]

Funny... most people don't have that hangup with a $600,000 Shelby Cobra or $4 million Shelby Daytona.

Whn folks see a Cobra or Daytona replica, they already know it's a replica. They already accept it as such. They 'judge' the car on it's other merits, not that it's simle a replica of something expensive. The owner/driver knows they know and doesn't try to pass it off as real. The replica Shelby is the norm, and has been for a very long time.

Virtually every other replica is still considered a cheap copy.

In hindsight, it's really amazing what the repli-Cobra industry has achieved. In part because of FFRs take on the industry, and progressing it forward.

[Rockraven]

Interesting feedback, and appreciated. What about Vman's body as designed by him? Again assuming a top quality product, what's it worth over and above the 818 kit price?

[Rockraven]

I gave up caring what others think years ago. This car is for ME.

My attitude exactly.

[metalmaker12]

Once again I like what FFR has so far, sticking with them 100% you gotta trust them more

[LS1RX7owen]

I'd bet there are plenty of people who would jump on that car at that price.
if you made sure it was fast as hell then you could be 100% sure it would sell.
Just like the Hennessey Venom took the Elise dial up to 11, you could do the same here with a nicely turbo'd 818 under a 918's skin.

go for it.
How many would you need to sell to make money? a dozen? 2 dozen? 100 total? I'd be curious.

[Gus]

The design of the 918 amazing, I would probably pay 5k$ for it considering FFR coupe version with power windows might be an extra 1-3k$. The only problem I see is having a hard time convincing myself I'm not a wanabe, à la Fiero-Lambo, driving around this thing...

[oldguy668]

What makes you think that a third party supplier is less likely to get sued? All of the high end manufacturers defend their "trade-dress" like a first-born child. No reputable company is going to intentionally get into an expensive pissing contest with Porsche or Ferrari or any of the others. FFR won their suits because they were able to show that Shelby copied the shape from AC and AC did not defend their rights.

[BipDBo]

It wouldn't work.
(1) The 918 has different proportions than the 818. The 818 has a similar height, but much smaller footprint.
918 818
wheelbase 104" 95"
width 76" 67.5" at front wheels
height 43" 45" approximately, at roll bar
One of the entries, which was very popular, was closely based on the 918, but when overlaid on the template, it was revealed that the driver would need to be an Oompa Loompa. Much of the dissapointment came from people expecting supercar looks on a car that simply does not have supercar proportions. They expected certain entriess to win. Unfortunately, it didn't matter how cool their favorite entry looked. If it wouldn't work, it was invalid.

(2) front intake. The 818 uses a single, senter mounted radiator that wouldn't work with the two inlets on the front of the 918. Dual radiators could be an designed, but it would be expensive.

There was one entry that had a very similar style to the 918 that might actually work, and that was by Vman7. It was very popular, and Dave at one point made a very vague, non-committed hint at its possible future. He listed it among some other popular entries as designs that may be considered for the future.

[carbon fiber]

why was there a design contest in the first place if they were going to use an in house design anyway? am i wrong?

[jimgood]

It wouldn't work.
(1) The 918 has different proportions than the 818. The 818 has a similar height, but much smaller footprint.
918 818
wheelbase 104" 95"
width 76" 67.5" at front wheels
height 43" 45" approximately, at roll bar
One of the entries, which was very popular, was closely based on the 918, but when overlaid on the template, it was revealed that the driver would need to be an Oompa Loompa. Much of the dissapointment came from people expecting supercar looks on a car that simply does not have supercar proportions. They expected certain entriess to win. Unfortunately, it didn't matter how cool their favorite entry looked. If it wouldn't work, it was invalid.

(2) front intake. The 818 uses a single, senter mounted radiator that wouldn't work with the two inlets on the front of the 918. Dual radiators could be an designed, but it would be expensive.

There was one entry that had a very similar style to the 918 that might actually work, and that was by Vman7. It was very popular, and Dave at one point made a very vague, non-committed hint at its possible future. He listed it among some other popular entries as designs that may be considered for the future.

I was wondering as much. I had doubts as to whether one could deliver this theoretical 918 body without screwing up the lines to make it fit the FFR chassis. But good luck with that.

[D2W]

why was there a design contest in the first place if they were going to use an in house design anyway? am i wrong?

My personal feeling it was just to create hype. They received an incredible amount of free press coverage from the contest. They did take styling cues from some of the designs, but you could say the contest designs took cues from other cars. The design contest was fun and we got to see some very talented designers, but I think they had too much invested in their inhouse design to throw it away and start over even though most people did not like the original. For what its worth the redesign was slightly better.

[shinn497]

I say make vman and Olmos's designs. They are more beautiful than the 918 and original. Be proud of your kit car.

[Xusia]

Dave (FFR) has stated repeated how important it is to hit their goals for this project. He has also more or less stated Rodney Olmos' and Vman's body designs wouldn't allow them to do that. If I recall correctly, it wasn't possible to product Rodney's body using the thermoforming process, and there were concerns about how it would translate when built full size.

VMan's simply wouldn't allow them to hit the $15k build price, and may actually still be an option later.

So, can we please stop complaining at seemingly every turn about designs we like that aren't being produced at launch?? Pretty please???

Now, back to the point of this thread: Is there enough demand for a 918 looking-ish body for the 818 kit?...

[Nuul]

If I wanted a fake car I would have a lambo fiero already....

I concur. I seem to be one of the few who really digs the existing body.

[HelluvaEngineer]

why was there a design contest in the first place if they were going to use an in house design anyway? am i wrong?

I was a little late to watching the design contest, but I get the feeling the current version is still better than their original due to the design contest.
I think the current front end can be tweaked with some cutting and egg crate type mesh placed in strategic areas for very little extra cost.

[RM1SepEx]

I concur. I seem to be one of the few who really digs the existing body.

I'm with you Nuul... I'm an engineer and realist. The body chosen will be tweaked a bit for sure but it is "hot" enough and will ave the driving capabilities to match. I feel like the design knocks their design and MFG out of the park!

I'm a wee bit tired of all the complaining...

[skullandbones]

What makes you think that a third party supplier is less likely to get sued? All of the high end manufacturers defend their "trade-dress" like a first-born child. No reputable company is going to intentionally get into an expensive pissing contest with Porsche or Ferrari or any of the others. FFR won their suits because they were able to show that Shelby copied the shape from AC and AC did not defend their rights.

It can't be emphasized enough about what happened to Shelby. The precedent is in place (in the replica car industry) which would force Porsche to act immediately and with all their resources.

If it could somehow magically happen, I would be drawn to this design. It has many features I like like the gull wing doors. But I think the cost would be pretty high. The other issue is that we haven't even seen a version of the coupe that will be released later. It may change your mind about considering the 918 if it has the required HOF that FFR promised. Still this is an interesting conversation as it raises points about what could, might, and won't happen . WEK.

[carbon fiber]

some people call it complaining, others call it constructive critisism. i have to suck it up all the time. the great thing about this forum for ffr is that they have direct feedback from their customers. these people have a right to what they like/don't like. they are mostly wanting to receive a car they like, versus a car that will have to be put under the knife. not a big deal for some of us to do, but a deal breaker for others. the real question is how many people like the current design and who doesn't, and who is willing to do modifications/spend more$ and who won't. p.s. i make my living re-engineering things.

[Rockraven]

some people call it complaining, others call it constructive critisism. i have to suck it up all the time. the great thing about this forum for ffr is that they have direct feedback from their customers. these people have a right to what they like/don't like. they are mostly wanting to receive a car they like, versus a car that will have to be put under the knife. not a big deal for some of us to do, but a deal breaker for others. the real question is how many people like the current design and who doesn't, and who is willing to do modifications/spend more$ and who won't.

Exactly. I don't know how anyone can find complaining in this thread.

[Mechie3]

I gave up caring what others think years ago. This car is for ME.

I car only to the extent that my reputation is affected. I wear clean clothes because I dont want to be known as a slob, and mow my lawn because I don't want to be known as someone who doesn't take care of their things. IMO, driving a replica car (lambo, ferrari, etc) that isn't automatically assumed to be a kit by the general public (cobra, etc) makes you out to be someone attempting to fool others into thinking you have/can afford/are something that you're not. I like to be genuine in what I do.

[JRL]

What if a small company offered a comprehensive body kit in gelcoat, including lights, glass, vents, trim and hardware, based on the $800,000 Porsche 918? What would you pay for it over and above the $9995 818 kit? $8000? $10,000? Essentially, we're talking about a finished car that looks very much like the pictures for around $25,000. Interested in the feedback.

There is a reason that car cost $800,000. To think you can scratch build a non donor car body (as you describe) with a decent interior for $8,000 - $10,000 in the small quantities it would muster is simply unrealistic.

If you want a build it yourself coupe in that price range you need to consider the car RCR is currently developing. It is a very clever adaptation of a very economical and readily available platform.