818 SEMA Update WITH PICS!

[Flamshackle]

What most of the distractors are missing is this car was built with the same philosophy as the Suburu car. A Lego.

All of the top notch contest entrance had a similar trait, they could not be modular. The current designs allow the ability to remove panels and replace as needed or if appearance warrants change. No production car I know can do this. Case in point, remove rear hatch, pin down the new Coupe hatch and purchase the targa top (bam) new look. Change the hood, front/rear faicia, quarters.... Whole different car. No need to start fresh, heck even the color will match. Even the windshield is a bolt on affair. Usually the roof lines are a dead giveaway to what car lives beneath the skin of a heavily modified car, not with this package. If you racing, one can stock additional color matched panels for repair damage. Lotus is arguably the track target for the 818, tap the front clam and not only are you out of the race, many lotus get totaled due to front clam damage.

I really think F5R thought this through and is reinventing the way cars should be made. Brilliant!!

This^^^ I am blown away by what they have achieved. I think sales will silence the tiny minority of people who have a chip on their shoulder from the design contest.

[mhoward1]

There actually have been a few production cars like that (the Original Nissan Pulsar), but not to this extent.

[flytosail]

There actually have been a few production cars like that (the Original Nissan Pulsar), but not to this extent.

Smart car has this option. One can take these swap a panel cars to the extreme. Imagine a 818 with a station wagon option?

[sidewinder]

This thread to me has been the most exciting, positive threads so far regarding the 818, if you leave out the last day's diversion. The design is very close to finalized. The responses has been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE! The SEMA show had NONE of the comments that sidewinder is rehashing.

if "constructive criticism to avoid the same mistakes in future" comes across as "beating a dead horse"
then the whole point of this open source and community thing is obsolete.
of course you can deny evolution. but it won't stop it from happening.

no need to ban me (that should be the normal reaction to this statement, right?) i'm out anyway since i act. do believe in evolution. cheers

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bye.



Jeff

[bstuke]

[timmy318]

lol.... guys

[mhoward1]

While I don't agree with Sidewinders views, I do think he is ok to express them as long as it's done in a civil manner. I would also hope he would also see the valid points that others have made.

[D2W]

^+1, If we can't discuss opposing views in a civil manner without being chastised for not loving everything FFR does then this does nothing to help FFR.

[WonderDude]

Well I for one am dissapointed at FFR!

I mean it took them over a year to come up with a car that's only slightly faster than a 911, only slightly better looking than a Ferrari, and probably just bearly has the fuel economy of most standard cars. And on top of all that, I'll have to pay over $15000 to own one!!! I mean!!!

I tried to make it sound as bad as I could. I guess when you have a winner this good, it's hard to make it look like a loser!

[Mechie3]

^+1, If we can't discuss opposing views in a civil manner without being chastised for not loving everything FFR does then this does nothing to help FFR.

I think people are just growing tired overall with people who personally don't like the styling lamenting over how it should be different. This is in contrast to people like Vman7 who know it could be different, but accept that many like it as it is as evidenced by >100 pre orders in less than a week.

There's a guy on NASIOC, pretty much everyone dislikes him, many have him on an ignore list (his posts don't show up, just a blank spot). Hip2BeSquare. The guy drives an old miata and an old SVX and has another old car of some sort. He lives in a small town in Iowa and has a very small world view. He lamented the BRZ/FRS over....and over....and over. He didn't just write quips of "I don't like it". No, he literaly wrote full page, multi paragraph tirades over why Subaru is making a huge mistake, why it should be turbo, why it should be AWD. His arguments were well written, but flawed. He personally wanted an AWD 300hp (H6) coupe for less than $25k with a manual transmission. There are very very few options like this that mostly start around $37k, out of his price range. He was personally mad that Subaru wasn't catering to him. Of course, he'd never admit he was personally mad, but it was painfully obvious to others. He wanted an inexpensive replacement to his SVX. Subaru wasn't doing that, thus, he was mad. Turns out, Subaru can't make enough BRZ/FRS coupes.

but it'll never be sexy or set anybodys hair on fire ... they should and COULD have a supercool outcome now

Those quotes from sidewinder are what I believe people are growing tired of. It has set peoples hair on fire (as much as I find that term odd and a bit esoteric and only used on FFR, lol) and many people think it already is supercool.

Do I love the body? It's ok. Was Vmans rear mod and whoevers Ferrari esque front mod much better IMO? Yes, but I don't rehash it over and over and over and claim the 818 is a flop when there is hard evidence to support it's, at least initially, successful.

[bobzdar]

Well I for one am dissapointed at FFR!

I mean it took them over a year to come up with a car that's only slightly faster than a 911, only slightly better looking than a Ferrari, and probably just bearly has the fuel economy of most standard cars. And on top of all that, I'll have to pay over $15000 to own one!!! I mean!!!

I tried to make it sound as bad as I could. I guess when you have a winner this good, it's hard to make it look like a loser!

LMFAO, that's a good one. It's not horrible, but certainly not a Pininfarina quality design. The rear is nice, front meh. It can be fixed. If an H6 fits, I may be in, we'll see.

[WonderDude]

I'm in the camp of those who think it looks quite good! (especially for a sub-$20K car).

Still, there is allot of potential for this car because of the way they did it. #1, since it does have a somewhat generic look it will apeal to a wider range of people and allow for some of us to come up with our own creative mods. And #2, since it's modular, it opens the door for some serious creativity not only by FFR but other aftermarket companies!

I think this car is going to be one of the most inovative cars of the decade!

[Wayne Presley]

What Mechie3 said x 10. The 818R looks great in pics, amazing in person and beyond words when sitting behind the wheel

I think people are just growing tired overall with people who personally don't like the styling lamenting over how it should be different. This is in contrast to people like Vman7 who know it could be different, but accept that many like it as it is as evidenced by >100 pre orders in less than a week.

There's a guy on NASIOC, pretty much everyone dislikes him, many have him on an ignore list (his posts don't show up, just a blank spot). Hip2BeSquare. The guy drives an old miata and an old SVX and has another old car of some sort. He lives in a small town in Iowa and has a very small world view. He lamented the BRZ/FRS over....and over....and over. He didn't just write quips of "I don't like it". No, he literaly wrote full page, multi paragraph tirades over why Subaru is making a huge mistake, why it should be turbo, why it should be AWD. His arguments were well written, but flawed. He personally wanted an AWD 300hp (H6) coupe for less than $25k with a manual transmission. There are very very few options like this that mostly start around $37k, out of his price range. He was personally mad that Subaru wasn't catering to him. Of course, he'd never admit he was personally mad, but it was painfully obvious to others. He wanted an inexpensive replacement to his SVX. Subaru wasn't doing that, thus, he was mad. Turns out, Subaru can't make enough BRZ/FRS coupes.





Those quotes from sidewinder are what I believe people are growing tired of. It has set peoples hair on fire (as much as I find that term odd and a bit esoteric and only used on FFR, lol) and many people think it already is supercool.

Do I love the body? It's ok. Was Vmans rear mod and whoevers Ferrari esque front mod much better IMO? Yes, but I don't rehash it over and over and over and claim the 818 is a flop when there is hard evidence to support it's, at least initially, successful.

[Xusia]

While I don't agree with Sidewinders views, I do think he is ok to express them as long as it's done in a civil manner. I would also hope he would also see the valid points that others have made.

^+1, If we can't discuss opposing views in a civil manner without being chastised for not loving everything FFR does then this does nothing to help FFR.

+1 to both of these, although it does get old to keep hearing the same thing. At some point (and Mechie3 speaks of this in his post, quoted below) we have to move on whether or not we agree/like/whatever the decision. It's a business and they aren't catering to any specific individual, they are targeting a larger group/demographic. I will go on record saying that inherently means some compromises - ESPECIALLY when you consider the price. For the price of a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc., I'd expect more. But to me FFR is delivering more than is reasonable to expect for sub $15K. Judging by the pre-orders, I'm not alone in that thinking.

I think people are just growing tired overall with people who personally don't like the styling lamenting over how it should be different. This is in contrast to people like Vman7 who know it could be different, but accept that many like it as it is as evidenced by >100 pre orders in less than a week.

There's a guy on NASIOC, pretty much everyone dislikes him, many have him on an ignore list (his posts don't show up, just a blank spot). Hip2BeSquare. The guy drives an old miata and an old SVX and has another old car of some sort. He lives in a small town in Iowa and has a very small world view. He lamented the BRZ/FRS over....and over....and over. He didn't just write quips of "I don't like it". No, he literaly wrote full page, multi paragraph tirades over why Subaru is making a huge mistake, why it should be turbo, why it should be AWD. His arguments were well written, but flawed. He personally wanted an AWD 300hp (H6) coupe for less than $25k with a manual transmission. There are very very few options like this that mostly start around $37k, out of his price range. He was personally mad that Subaru wasn't catering to him. Of course, he'd never admit he was personally mad, but it was painfully obvious to others. He wanted an inexpensive replacement to his SVX. Subaru wasn't doing that, thus, he was mad. Turns out, Subaru can't make enough BRZ/FRS coupes.

Those quotes from sidewinder are what I believe people are growing tired of. It has set peoples hair on fire (as much as I find that term odd and a bit esoteric and only used on FFR, lol) and many people think it already is supercool.

Do I love the body? It's ok. Was Vmans rear mod and whoevers Ferrari esque front mod much better IMO? Yes, but I don't rehash it over and over and over and claim the 818 is a flop when there is hard evidence to support it's, at least initially, successful.

As far as the styling goes, I agree with Mechie3. It's not what I would call "hair on fire," but it is very good looking and I'd be proud to be seen in it. I would also state that I personally don't WANT hair on fire looks. I don't want that much attention. I prefer to blend in a bit more. Subtlety is a good quality. Simplicity is elegance. Less is more... And I think the current 818 design delivers that.

[timmy318]

IMHO, I think that for a car that is sub $15K this is a killer deal! On this thread alone there're many many gripes! It's fine to gripe about the 818 but don't keep restating what other people said in other ways. Especially don't start to think that FFR is going to cater to your personal needs/wants. FFR could've designed this car by themselves without any input from the community. BUT, they didn't and they asked for our input and this is how the 818 turned out. Sure, it's not the nicest car BUT it only costs $15K. If you truly want a sexy looking car go buy a ferrari, lambo or other car that fits your needs. In all seriousness I think that the 818 turned perfect! IMHO, the rear end is a clean slate to where we can add our personal touch. Just adding my two cents in....

[soul strife]

IMHO, I think that for a car that is sub $15K this is a killer deal! On this thread alone there're many many gripes! It's fine to gripe about the 818 but don't keep restating what other people said in other ways. Especially don't start to think that FFR is going to cater to your personal needs/wants. FFR could've designed this car by themselves without any input from the community. BUT, they didn't and they asked for our input and this is how the 818 turned out. Sure, it's not the nicest car BUT it only costs $15K. If you truly want a sexy looking car go buy a ferrari, lambo or other car that fits your needs. In all seriousness I think that the 818 turned perfect! IMHO, the rear end is a clean slate to where we can add our personal touch. Just adding my two cents in....

Next time add a dime because that was spot on.

[Mechie3]

When I bought my 02 WRX, it had some body damage (mostly on the trunk, which I had one from my 06 left over). It has some scrapes here and there, brakes aren't the best, small ding on the hood. I kept trying to compare it to my 06 that insurance gave me $17k for. I had to remind myself the car was only $3k, it wasn't going to be, and didn't need to be, as nice as my 06 was. For the money, it was amazing. Same with the 818.

[Movieman]

Well I for one am dissapointed at FFR!

I mean it took them over a year to come up with a car that's only slightly faster than a 911, only slightly better looking than a Ferrari, and probably just bearly has the fuel economy of most standard cars. And on top of all that, I'll have to pay over $15000 to own one!!! I mean!!!

I tried to make it sound as bad as I could. I guess when you have a winner this good, it's hard to make it look like a loser!

excellent!

[timmy318]

Next time add a dime because that was spot on.

lo, thanks

[PhyrraM]

To comment on, and maybe put into perspective, the subject of repeating common areas of discussion.

When a post has to do with the (much discussed) styling of the 818 it always ends up in "enough already".

However, when a post asks the (much discussed) question of the H6 or auto tranny, it usually ends up in a fairly healthly discussion - even if it may have started with "search fool".

To me, both situations are pretty much the same. We live with them both, and choose to stay out of threads that we, personally, don't feel like propagating. They will die on there own without all the finger-pointing if allowed to. Even a "take it somewhere else" post is counter to the effort your trying to make (unless the goal is simpley pot-stirring). Now, if you enjoy the conversation, like I sometimes do, by all means discuss. If you truely feel a person is a troll, don't feed them.....anything....ever.....especially after dark. (And for goodness sake, DON'T GET THEM WET!)

[DrieStone]

IMHO, I think that for a car that is sub $15K this is a killer deal! On this thread alone there're many many gripes! It's fine to gripe about the 818 but don't keep restating what other people said in other ways. Especially don't start to think that FFR is going to cater to your personal needs/wants. FFR could've designed this car by themselves without any input from the community. BUT, they didn't and they asked for our input and this is how the 818 turned out. Sure, it's not the nicest car BUT it only costs $15K. If you truly want a sexy looking car go buy a ferrari, lambo or other car that fits your needs. In all seriousness I think that the 818 turned perfect! IMHO, the rear end is a clean slate to where we can add our personal touch. Just adding my two cents in....

I'm in total agreement (and I'm one of the "complainers") that the 818 is a steal. I'll also admit to the "restating" usually what I've already said. I think it happens because we feel strongly about it. I also have been very careful not to seem like I hate the car, or that I'm here just to complain.

I'll make two points. First, I think that saying "it only costs $15k" is an excuse. I certainly didn't expect "no compromises", after all this was all pulled together (2 cars, etc), in an insane amount of time. $15k is a great deal, but that was only one of the goals of the project.

I do find it interesting that you point out the rear end. I wouldn't change the rear of the car, I think it's one of the best features of the current body. It's the front that I don't like. I know people have been mocking up the front facia, and it's helped significantly, but there's some scale and angle issues with the hood and fenders that have never worked right, and that stuff hasn't changed much since Jim's original model. Those are not the kinds of things that you can just "make your own".

I've said it before. I love the idea of the 818. I REALLY want to build one. I'm just not sold on the current incarnation, I'm not saying "no", but I'm struggling to find a way to say "yes".

I know I'm the minority here. I'll admit that my response is an emotional response based on some (perhaps unreal) expectations of the competition. I'll also say that as a Lotus owner, and someone who would build a Stratos kit if it was easier to do, I was hoping for something that was fitting of cars of that style/class rather than an MR2.

[David Hodgkins]

This thread has definitely gone down a rathole. The last few pages have NOTHING to do with getting the 818 ready for SEMA.

It has run it's course and I'm closing it.