818 SEMA Update WITH PICS!

[Mechie3]

HEHE, That's a good one!

I think something is wrong with my computer. The pictures in your post aren't showing up correctly. All I see is a blank white area.


(I hope I'm not the only one hitting "refresh" every 15 minutes hoping to be the first to see something new) :lol:

[Sultan]

Wow you can't see the pictures! Man the cars look AWMAZING!!!!

:-D

[shinn497]

Tbh,

I still want to wait for SEMA.

[jcdennis]

I'd not peeked at the forum for some time... was having a very productive morning here at work and decided to take a bit of a break and see if there was any news....

Now I fear for my afternoon....

[BipDBo]

My vote is to not release the pictures of the body until after SEMA. Let the car be unveiled for the first time, in the flesh at SEMA. I'd hate to see SEMA be overshadowed by another round of negative feedback on the forum. Over the computer screen, the car nut gets spoiled by constant special edition super-cars and concept renderings. A Ferrari can look bland on the computer screen. A rendering with nothing in the background with which to scale it is even further disconnected from reality. A nice car always looks much more impressive in person. Those fortunate enough go to SEMA will be able to have that experience. I'm betting that they will be impressed. They will be able to take lots of pictures of it, against a backdrop or people next to it to serve as a reference of scale. More importantly, they will be able to communicate back how great the car looks in the flesh. Also, SEMA will offer first impressions from people who have not been involved in the contest and carry the expectations that have come with picking their favorite entries.

With all that being said, I'm all in favor of as much technical info coming in early through the forum as possible. I'm interested in knowing the final weights, especially for the 818R, and if the donor list has grown. I also wouldn't mind seeing lots of photos of the car without its body panels.

[bbjones121]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

[mhoward1]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

I think it is to show how this vehicle can still have performance and quality even with an economy build.

[Mechie3]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

It's an older legacy that used a small and larger turbo. They don't fit on any LHD cars because the steering column interferes with the turbo/exhaust on the left hand side. You can pick them up rather readily from ebay or other sources. The only swap usually done is with mid 90's RHD Legacy postal cars. Not sure if they have any benefits over a newer 2.5 with AVCS and all (considering they're only a 2.0).

edit: Looks like they only made 260hp stock. I know they have some issue with the turbos switching over as well which makes a torque (or hp) dip in the middle of the rpm range.

[David Hodgkins]

Tbh,

I still want to wait for SEMA.

My vote is to not release the pictures of the body until after SEMA. Let the car be unveiled for the first time, in the flesh at SEMA. I'd hate to see SEMA be overshadowed by another round of negative feedback on the forum. Over the computer screen, the car nut gets spoiled by constant special edition super-cars and concept renderings. A Ferrari can look bland on the computer screen. A rendering with nothing in the background with which to scale it is even further disconnected from reality. A nice car always looks much more impressive in person. Those fortunate enough go to SEMA will be able to have that experience. I'm betting that they will be impressed. They will be able to take lots of pictures of it, against a backdrop or people next to it to serve as a reference of scale. More importantly, they will be able to communicate back how great the car looks in the flesh. Also, SEMA will offer first impressions from people who have not been involved in the contest and carry the expectations that have come with picking their favorite entries.

With all that being said, I'm all in favor of as much technical info coming in early through the forum as possible. I'm interested in knowing the final weights, especially for the 818R, and if the donor list has grown. I also wouldn't mind seeing lots of photos of the car without its body panels.

THANK YOU for these responses. I've been having some of the same thoughts.

I gotta be honest, I've been thinking maybe it WOULD be best to wait until SEMA for images, even if I were to receive the ok to release one or more of the ones I've acquired. We all have suffered the effects of the last time an image was released. There were posts that have resulted in Dave pulling back from the forum and going dark. Who can blame him? One approach I could take would be to heavily moderate the thread and delete or edit posts but as you can tell we have be hesitant to do that in the past. BTW, just for the record I maintain the right to do going forward, on my discretion.

I think it would disappoint some not to show images and I'm sure I'd be subjected to some negative posts for not showing images now that I've indicated I have some. One pic I have has people and other objects in the shot that give a good indication of scale. They definitely got me excited...

Please, PLEASE don't be too disappointed if it turns out I don't get approval to post a pic at this time. I think you can all understand that FFR wants to control information being leaked before SEMA. I did get permission to come forward with SOME of the info I've gotten so far, and I have made additional comments based on my own observations of the pics I've seen. I have asked for permission to post some of the comments out of respect for Dave and have chosen not to comment on some info based in part on potential feedback. I have not received any indication from FFR that I'm releasing too much information, so that's a good thing.

As I await further feedback from the powers that be regarding images, I'll try to scrutinize the pics I have to see what other technical info can be gleaned from them and post that info here. I'm walking a fine line here, and don't want to jeopardize the little leeway (and access to inside info) I've been given.

[BipDBo]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the original donor list, which I believe still stands, did not include any 2.5 liter engines, only 2.0 liter. Lots of people have postulated using a 2.5 and a 6 speed, but as far as i know, that hasn't come from FFR. The twin turbo, EJ20R offered in Japan was perhaps the most powerful (276 hp in stock form) 2.0 liter built by Subaru. The fact that they picked this engine further confirms that FFR is not supporting the 2.5 liter, at least not yet.

[prematureapex]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the original donor list, which I believe still stands, did not include any 2.5 liter engines, only 2.0 liter. Lots of people have postulated using a 2.5 and a 6 speed, but as far as i know, that hasn't come from FFR. The twin turbo, EJ20R offered in Japan was perhaps the most powerful (276 hp in stock form) 2.0 liter built by Subaru. The fact that they picked this engine further confirms that FFR is not supporting the 2.5 liter, at least not yet.

The first 818 prototype uses a 2.5l engine, more speciifcally, a 2006 WRX donor.

An 06-07 2.5l WRX donor is certainly on the list. The posutulation has been on whether or not the STi six speed will work. But the 2.5l in the STi (which is almost identical to the 2.5l in the later WRXs) will certainly work.

[PhyrraM]

Why don't you PM the pics to some of the Subaru gearheads to help you find the technical details....... wink-wink...nudge..nudge...

[David Hodgkins]

Why don't you PM the pics to some of the Subaru gearheads to help you find the technical details....... wink-wink...nudge..nudge...

I appreciate the offer! I'll send you my Pal Pal info. I can't take payment from a PM...

I did see some new tires and these are the sizes: 255/35 Z R18 and 225/40 Z R18.

[bbjones121]

That is definitely my understanding. It was discussed as to whether or not the 3.0 would fit, but that was dismissed because the 2.5 was max size that would fit design.

The first 818 prototype uses a 2.5l engine, more speciifcally, a 2006 WRX donor.

An 06-07 2.5l WRX donor is certainly on the list. The posutulation has been on whether or not the STi six speed will work. But the 2.5l in the STi (which is almost identical to the 2.5l in the later WRXs) will certainly work.

[PhyrraM]

Like the old small block chebbies, the 2.0 and the 2.5 are the same physical size as each other. Only the internal displacement is different.

[BipDBo]

The first 818 prototype uses a 2.5l engine, more speciifcally, a 2006 WRX donor.

An 06-07 2.5l WRX donor is certainly on the list. The posutulation has been on whether or not the STi six speed will work. But the 2.5l in the STi (which is almost identical to the 2.5l in the later WRXs) will certainly work.

I stand corrected. I had thought that the WRX kept its 2.0 liters through 2007, and that the 2.5 was reserved for the STi. It turns out that the 2.5 was offered in the WRX for those years, but with only a 3 hp jump from 227 to 230 hp. As discussed in another thread, though, sticking to the smaller displacement would be of benefit for the 818R to keep you in the "E modified" class. Plus, I'm sure that it will look at lot cooler for SEMA with twin turbo piping.

[prematureapex]

I stand corrected. I had thought that the WRX kept its 2.0 liters through 2007, and that the 2.5 was reserved for the STi. It turns out that the 2.5 was offered in the WRX for those years, but with only a 3 hp jump from 227 to 230 hp. As discussed in another thread, though, sticking to the smaller displacement would be of benefit for the 818R to keep you in the "E modified" class. Plus, I'm sure that it will look at lot cooler for SEMA with twin turbo piping.

Just as a side note. The 2.5l WRX engine makes a good bit more than 3hp over the 2.0l. Pay that factory rating no mind. In fact, the HP curves for the stock 2.5l just about match an average off-the-self tune w/a turboback exhaust on a 2.0l WRX, until about 5k RPMs. Aka, until the upper RPM range, the stock 2.5l is as strong as a "stage II" 2.0l.

Modified to modified, while they both acheive about the same top end power (the small turbo is the limiting factor on both engines), the 2.5l is a monster in the midrange compared to the 2.0l.

Anyway, off topic sorry!

[DougR]

Shipping those cars across country is expensive. I'd like to help out by offering to allow Dave to leave the 818R here in Las Vegas to save some of those shipping costs. We also have several drivers here who can also help sort out the car on the Spring Mountain Motorsports track right away as well as the tracks that NASA uses when the 2013 season starts (AAA Speedway, Button Willow & Willow Springs).

[Mechie3]

I stand corrected. I had thought that the WRX kept its 2.0 liters through 2007, and that the 2.5 was reserved for the STi. It turns out that the 2.5 was offered in the WRX for those years, but with only a 3 hp jump from 227 to 230 hp. As discussed in another thread, though, sticking to the smaller displacement would be of benefit for the 818R to keep you in the "E modified" class. Plus, I'm sure that it will look at lot cooler for SEMA with twin turbo piping.

No. 2.0L is the max displacement for DM cars (un boosted I believe). Emod allows unlimited displacement if you meet the 1800lb requirement (plus an additional 50lb modified tub requirement).


The 2.5's made about the same hp, but more torque, and the boost was turned down from factory IIRC. The 2.0's had 14.5psi, the 2.5's had around 12psi.

I don't think full blown finished pics should be posted, but either teasers (ie, closeups of specific sections, lights 1/2 on type pics) or in process (guys working on a car, 1/2 finished chassis, etc) would be awesome to see!

You can always post a new thread saying "818 pics here, don't look if you don't want to see it".

[agepag]

Subscribed to this thread!

[David Hodgkins]

frankkardok.jpgDid you guys notice this pic in Mad Dogs new FFR additions thread?

[RM1SepEx]

nope... dash install in 818R...

I NEED some new photos... you won't get any design complaints from me. If I expected to have my inputs heard I'd have to expect a payroll check with Dave's electronic signature on the front, showing electronic deposit!

[BipDBo]

frankkardok.jpgDid you guys notice this pic in Mad Dogs new FFR additions thread?

Yep. That's one killer mustache.

[prematureapex]

The 2.5's made about the same hp, but more torque, and the boost was turned down from factory IIRC. The 2.0's had 14.5psi, the 2.5's had around 12psi.

That's not true.

Your average peak WHP was about 20 more on most dynos 2.5 vs. 2.0 (190 whp vs. about 170 whp, of course dyno-dependent on 180 vs. 160, 190 vs. 170, etc.). Needless to say, throughout the range, the 25l is kicking the 2.0ls butt as well.

Again, the 2.5l makes as much power as a stage II 2.0l, until you get into the upper RPMs.

It is a more powerful engine, despite the manufacturer's specs. Clearly it's underrated from the factory. Trap speeds reflect the added power as well.

This is Cobb's dyno, stock 2.5 vs. OTS stage II 2.0l:



Stock 2.0l to stage 2 2.0l aren't even close, it gains signficant power all over the range:




C/N: You're lucky to have a 2.5l.

[Mechie3]

I meant on paper they were close and changing oem boost was how parity was (attempted to be) maintained. I certainly love the 2.5 Just bought an 02 WRX with a VF39. Wait....wait.....wait.......booost...oh, now I'm speeding because it took forever to hit boost.

Only thing I can tell from that pic is that guy has a moustache, they aren't reusing the stock gauge hood, and to remove the cluster requires you to pop the dash. Any word on if that's the roadster or R roll hoop?

[D2W]

Dave has the body changed from the last rendering shown (the one on the wall in the picture above), or would you be showing us what we already expect just in the flesh?

[David Hodgkins]

That's a roadster chassis.

[David Hodgkins]

Dave has the body changed from the last rendering shown (the one on the wall in the picture above), or would you be showing us what we already expect just in the flesh?

I would say that from what I've seen, there are small details around the parting lines and headlights that I never saw mentioned in previous threads, and there are roll hoop differences on the 818R.

[David Hodgkins]

I just received something in my email.

[riptide motorsport]

David Hopkins "I did see some new tires and these are the sizes: 255/35 Z R18 and 225/40 Z R18."

Those are HUGE!!!!!!!!!

[David Hodgkins]

Here is a pic of the 818R under construction, with the majority of the body panels in place:



Enjoy!

[Benji]

I just received something in my email.

SUCH a tease.

Well, I'm going anyway so I'm not fussed but obviously it would be nice to see.

[Benji]

Oh hello.

[Benji]

Just so we're clear, that's a traditional fibreglass body with gel coat made in their traditional way?

[David Hodgkins]

Just so we're clear, that's a traditional fibreglass body with gel coat made in their traditional way?

Yes.

[D2W]

No need to have doors on the 818R. That frame should be plenty stiff. With all the seperate body panels there is no parting lines to worry about, so I'm assuming the body is pretty nice as it sits?

[D2W]

Dave answer if you want or can, is the only difference between 818r and roadster the extra bracing in the cockpit?

[Xusia]

Wow. I'm very impressed by the looks. I can't wait for SEMA so we can see more!

[David Hodgkins]

Dave answer if you want or can, is the only difference between 818r and roadster the extra bracing in the cockpit?

I don't know unfortunately...

[BipDBo]

Oh boy. Brace yourselves. S*******m's a comin'.

Essentially, we now have confirmation that nothing substantial has changed from the last rendering. I'm not saying that I don't like it. I was a fan of this body style when it first was shown on the rendering. When that rendering came out, a lot of people, though were not happy. Some said "I'm outta here!" while others worked on suggestions for improvement. Not even any of the minor suggested tweeks were made. There's going to be some more unhappy campers. It may be better to get it over with before SEMA.

I think it's a cool looking car. Not the coolest I've seen, but definately up there, especially for the under $20K category. I'm not here really for a HOF body style. I'm here for an affordable car that has great performance.