Tie Rod Ends MkIV

[racephotoman]

I finally received my back ordered tie rod ends. First, the one I received DO NOT have a castle nut/cotter pin setup, just a lock nut. Assuming like anything else, these are a cheaper way to go, but torqued properly. probably doesn't matter (I was toying with the idea of at least drilling a hole for a cotter pin???).

My real concern (see photos) is that the steering rack threaded shaft only threads into the tie rod end on both sides by only a 1/2-inch as hown in the photo (not the 1"-2" as mentioned in the manuel)-(I did a quick parallel alignment of the rotors off the chassis so the wheels are facing fairly straight). Again, if this isn't a problem, I'm going to just again assume these newer parts are made smaller to save money??? Now looking at the photos again, I think I attached ther steering arms correctly, but thinking if I was to reverse them to change the angle to face inward, I probably would gain another 1" of threading. Question, are the steering arms backward (and/or, they can be swapped to get the tie rod rend to thread further in)???

Walter

TR-SA1.jpg

[edwardb]

I haven't personally seen them, but have heard and read that many tie rod ends now use a locknut vs. a castle nut/cotter key. Nothing wrong with them and completely safe to use as is, assuming torqued correctly of course.

Your steering arms look like they're assembled to the spindles correctly. At least look exactly like mine, as pictured from my Mk4 build. 1" of threads is marginal (using the 1-1/2 times diameter formula) and could end up less when finally aligned. What steering rack are you using? Something doesn't seem right. I have probably 3+ inches of threads in mine as pictured, using nearly all the available threads. Not the final alignment, but in the ballpark.

[racephotoman]

Your tie rod ends are way-more meaty than the ones I received recently from FFR. Again, thinking every generation of parts are getting cheaper and cheaper. And yes, you are threaded in way more than my mere 1/2" without final adjustment, thinking something is definitely wrong with my tie rod ends. I did upgrade to a powder steering unit, and will go outside to measure the rod thread ends to see if the PS unit ones are shorter, hence causing the problem. If so, will contact the PS people for match tie rod ends, and/or FFR to get an answer. I definitely don't fell right about the minimal threading into the TR ends. Thanks for your answer and image.

Walter

[edwardb]

Those are off-the-shelf Moog 87-93 Mustang tie rod ends. Nothing special. One question -- did you install the rack extenders on your PS rack? They are needed for the best front end geometry, and may give the threads you need for the tie rod ends.

[racephotoman]

No to the extenders...don't know (or heard) anything about them. Are they a FFR part, or someone elses?

Walter

[edwardb]

Factory Five part #14687. They come with the basic kit to mod the donor steering rack. Not listed on their website, but available by calling them. They will add 1-5/8 inch to your tie rod length, so should fix your thread problem plus improves your front end geometry. You take the boot off, remove the inner tie rod, screw on the extender, then replace the inner tie rod. You likely will also need extended boots. This picture I found in another thread shows the extender being assembled to the rack.

RackExtension2.jpg

BTW, the picture I posted before of my Mk4 build spindle and tie rod end is a Unisteer PS rack with the FFR extenders installed and extended boots from Breeze.

[Avalanche325]

You need the extenders as stated above. It will fix your thread problems. Rack boots probably depend on what rack you have. my AGR seems fine. Still in build stage though.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Extenders are to be used with a power rack however it sounds like you are saying that you're out of threads somewhere...either the male threads of the inner tie rods on the rack or female threads inside the outer tie rods. Can you clarify? I've not run out of threads on either, even when using extenders and having to cut back the inners. What PS rack are you using?

BTW, the nylocks rather than castle nuts are acceptable and normal. Used in most OEM applications for the past decade or so. Drill and cotter pin them if it makes you feel better though. Another BTW, when eyeballing "fairly straight" you need to have the suspension reasonably close to ride height (control arms pretty much horizontal) because it goes wonky at full droop.

Cheers,
Jeff

[racephotoman]

Jeff,

My problem is I don't have enough thread on either end - the tie rod or PS rack's shaft). Right now the PS shaft only goes into the tie rod end by a 1/2" (obviously unacceptable)(see photo), hence the need to extend the PS rod length with an extentor or get longer tie rod ends. I did see 3/4" longer ones (5 3/4" versus my 5") offered by Breeze, but again felt even another 1/2"-1" longer would be nice. As for the PS unit, I got it from Levy and don't actually know brand (no name on the box).

Walter

[edwardb]

OK, a little more detailed explanation will maybe help. Several years ago, a couple of Roadster builders found that bump steer was reduced by moving the pivot point of the inner tie rod out to be in line with the pivot points of a line between the UCA and LCA. You kind find many more details by searching on the other forum, if you're interested. Sometime later, FFR started supplying the 1-5/8 extenders for PS racks and had Unisteer make a custom version of their manual rack with wider pivot points, starting with version 3.0/3.1. I believe the tie rod ends you received from FFR take the wider rack dimension into account. So the limited threads available for the tie rod ends aren't the main problem, they're just a symptom. Add the rack extenders, as suggested, and it will fix the thread problem and you will get less bump steer which (trust me) you will really appreciate once you start driving the car. Don't miss this opportunity to fix the problem right. Longer tie rod ends would be just covering it up.

[racephotoman]

Possibly a stupid question(s), but can the rack extenders me installed with the PS rack still on the car? And is there anything special regarding making them secure enough? From the sound of it, FFR sells the entenders and Breeze the new boot.

Walter

[edwardb]

No stupid questions... Yes, I think it would be easy to install the extenders with the rack already on the car. Things are pretty tight, so a pretty good way to hold the rack while you're wrenching on it actually. I've installed two sets, and needed to be held in my bench vise. Would be even easier if you don't have the radiator installed yet. Then would be completely accessible.

Nothing special about the install. Take off the boots. Remove the inner tie end. Most have a flat for a large wrench. Then wind on the extenders with some blue Loctite. Pull good and tight. Then the same for the inner tie rods.

You could try re-using the old boots. You will need new clamps or tie-wraps. Then wind the rack from lock to lock and see if the old boot stretches enough. Some are OK. I chose to replace them both times. Breeze has the extended boots and he gives great service and is a forum vendor. But they are available elsewhere. Ford PN E69Z-3332-A or equivalent.

[racephotoman]

Thanks....I did order the boots from Breeze yesterday in anticipation of doing this. And will do the same for the extenders from FFR. I have been using only the vendors from FFR site, with "generally" good luck. Again, thanks you and everyone so far for the advice.

Walter

[rich grsc]

There is no need for longer boots, the rack still moves the same distance. I would like to know why you can only thread the inner shaft a 1/2" into the tie rod ends, the threads are much deeper than that?

[edwardb]

There is no need for longer boots, the rack still moves the same distance. I would like to know why you can only thread the inner shaft a 1/2" into the tie rod ends, the threads are much deeper than that?

You're right. The rack moves the same distance. However, the attachment point on the PS housing for the large end of the boot is unchanged but the small end is moved out approx 1-5/8 inches. The length of the extender. The boot has to be either stretched or an extended boot used. Look at the picture in post #6. That's the increased distance.

The threads are deeper, but he put the tie rod ends where the alignment was roughly right. If screwed in more there would massive toe-in. On the two PS racks that I've modified with the extenders, I would have had the some problem without them.

[racephotoman]

What I did was using a 48" straight ruler, I tried to get the front rotors as parallel to the chassis as possible (knowing this will change +toe in), then measured the two steering rack shafts to be as even as possible (equal distant) to the two steering arm holes (aiming the steering rack shafts at the steering arm holes, ands then threading in the tie rod ends equal amounts on both side until I was able to loosely set the ball joint into the steering arm hole. cranked down (loosely) on the jam nut and took off the tie rod ends. This is where I saw the steering rack shaft only went into the tie rod ends 1/2." I wasn't saying I can't thread them in further, but that it was the lack of threading in (only 1/2") that was the problem (knowing the alignment is far from perfect)....and finding out that FFR did make extensions when switching to a PS unit. I did order the extension today and just did remove the steering rack shafts....and see if I can reuse the old boots, sending the new ones back. I guess I just wished my PS guy (knowing what car I was putting it in) would have either supplied them, or suggested I buy them from FFR. In fact, FFR did say they do supply them in the complete kit---I haven't seem them. Anyway, thanks agian for all the great advice!!!
Walter

[pc12cvs]

I realize this post is old and probably been worked through by now, but wanted to post for anybody else that reads. If you go with a power steering rack (at least the one I used: part no 6406 at autozone), you definitely need the extenders. Mine are on order now, so I'm not sure if you need new boots, but when ordering them on the phone from FFR, they didn't mention needing them. I'll post back if I find that you do.

[ajt725]

I used an Auto Zone rack when I upgraded but cannot remember the part number. I did use the Factory Five extenders and did not need new boots.

[pc12cvs]

I used an Auto Zone rack when I upgraded but cannot remember the part number. I did use the Factory Five extenders and did not need new boots.

That's good news. While it's like Christmas about once a week at my house getting car stuff in the mail, the unexpected parts will surely start to add up by the end...