Carl's Mk 4 Roadster Build

[carlewms]

I never, ever, thought I'd read that on a car forum!!!!!

I never thought I would either ... but when building one of these cars I found that I eat the "never" word a lot.

Carl

[carlewms]

Here is a brief video ...




By the way ... all lights are LED except the headlights.

[dallas_]

C'mon Carl. Waiting for your first start video.

[carlewms]

The first time I energized it I had some issues which turned out to mostly due to some fancy connectors I was using ... which I spent about a day replacing.

In thinking that a better insulated and protected connector ... well would be more reliable, I installed these female versions on every spade type connector on the dash.



I checked the resistance across the connector ....



Results ... no continuity or between 80-160 ohms across each connection.

While it could be my crimping skills I just don't think I screwed up the crimps on that many fittings. The heat shrink on the errant connectors also contained a glue to spread when the heat shrink was heated. The control wiring for the system is 24g ...very thin and I think the glue ended up insulating these thin wires (specially after it fully cured).

Here is a photo showing the two connectors. The one on the left is the one that failed; the one on the right works perfectly...



After I fixed the connections almost everything worked; things that did not were because I either misunderstood the schematic or got the pins in the connectors wrong. The InfinityBox does make these things very easy to trouble shoot.

Basically the system tells you if your problem is between the switch and the MASTERCELL compute; that the MASTERCELL is communicating with the POWERCELLS and then between the POWERCELLS and the load. I will post more about the troubleshooting tonight.

Carl

[carlewms]

Sunday was supposed to be first start day! ... But Murphy and his darn Law showed up instead.

What a crappy day!

After getting the engine oil primed, the next step was setting up the EFI system and that is where things went south ... Like to freakin Antartica.

The handheld device kept losing communication with the ECU ... and it was doing it erratically. We made it through a setup but we were not sure it made it through to the ECU. We had good spark and fuel up to the inlet of the throttle body. There was not a hint of fuel in the throttle body (we assumed that with all the cranking we did there would be fuel below the butterflies).

Then to just make everything better...the engine stopped cranking. Pressing start button produced nothing but a loud "pop" at the starter. The starter was not hot; the wiring looks fine ... but it is not moving. After checking we found no blown fuses, burnt wires, loose wires or anything externally to the starter but we forgot to check one thing ... The charge on the darn battery. Turns out it was very low and after charging it up, the engine cranked just fine ... But still would not start.

On the positive side ... oil pressure was great, the fuel gauge worked fine (still to be calibrated if required) , voltmeter ok.

I have five days to stew over the solution since I will be traveling for business until Friday night.

[dallas_]

That has to be disappointing after making so much progress. I know nothing about EFI but it sounds to me it is likely the issue is in that area.
I see a picture of your motor in post #351 but not really sure if it's a crate motor or what?

[Gordon Levy]

It's a stage 4 347 we built. I am pretty sure it's an electronics issue but not sure what.

[carlewms]

With a business trip this week ...

A long plane ride plus a couple of Bloody Marys does wonders some times ...

As Gordon said its a 347 cu engine using a EZ EFI 2.0 Throttle Body Fuel Injection System with an in tank fuel pump. I also believe it is an electronics issue.

After thinking about it some more if I am not getting RPM signal into the tack I could also not be getting it to the ECU. This could be the problem; however you would think I would have some sort of error code. Plenty of fuel in the tank.

The other issue could be that I the timing was set wrong ...we thought the #1 cylinder was in the compression stroke when it was in fact on the exhaust stroke putting the timing 180 deg out. In reviewing the manual for the EFI suggesting the following troubleshooting;

1. The injector duty cycle code comes on over 100% duty cycle meaning "the injectors cannot supply enough fuel"; this seems to indicate the throttle body is not getting fuel;
2. Without an RPM signal to the EFI the engine will not run;
3. The IAC wiring could be bad (check red, blue, yellow, black wires from throttle body harness to ECU).
4. Check for for proper fuel flow and pressure; the tank is new so I don't think it is a rust clogging the filter issue, the system immediately starts the pump raising the fuel pressure to the required 43 psig or greater,

Therefore, I think I need to:

1. Get a response from FAST on the handheld problem;
2. Get the handheld to communicate with the ECU;
3. Check to see if I am getting RPM signal to ECU;
4. Check the IAC wiring;
5. Reprogram the ECU; and,
6. Start the engine.

I still have not spoken to tech support yet so all this could change but I've emailed them (I am out of the country right now) when I get home I want to jump on and solve the engine problem.

For you FAST EFI 2.0 Gurus out there ....HELP

Carl

[Raceral]

Is the button on the inertia switch pushed.

[carlewms]

Is the button on the inertia switch pushed.

Not installed with the FAST EZ EFI ... Should it be?

[carlewms]

I got home from a tough week working in the British Virgin Islands ..

After making sure I had plenty of charge on the battery ...

I re programmed the ECU and tried to start the engine ... with slightly better results!

Fuel was definitely getting to the throttle body and although engine did not start we managed to get some hellacious backfiring...it blew the rubber hose caps off the vacuum tubes.

We then rotated the #1 to TDC verifying the position on the crank and the rotor position...

Then we broke off the pin on the top of the coil ... so tomorrow we will get a new coil and try again.

I also checked the plug wires to make sure they were in the right positions ... and they were!

So today getting some nasty backfires was progress in the right direction ... now to get it all working in the correct order.

I am still having an occasional communication error.

Any suggestions would help!

[dallas_]

Backfires mean cylinders are firing at the wrong time. Timing is off or firing order is wrong. You said you checked that but might want to check it again. Getting closer!

[carlewms]

Dallas,

I just picked up the new coil ... BTW that is the same message I got from Gordon Levy and the Traveling Builder Mark Dougherty.

I did check the firing order again and it is correct (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 counter clockwise). In the morning Craig and I are going to check the timing and give it another shot.

When looking at the boot for the connector to the coil I noticed the MSD version fits tightly over the top of the coil whereas the Taylor did not. This time I am going to use the MSD boot.

[Carlos C]

Besides the timing being off, or erroniously clocking your distributor 180 degrees out, some EFI distributor manufacturers have moved where the #1 cylinder plug wire attaches, in relation to the cap. For example, the cap is stamped with the number "1" on the 12 o' clock position, but in reality, the distributor will fire this cylinder at the 9 o' clock position. This is where the #1 cylinder spark plug wire would attach instead of the conventional position.

What brand and type of distributor do you have? My EFI-controlled 358W has an Accel distributor, which uses this set-up. I've never had a problem with it, and it was expressly noted on the installation instructions how to clock it. Since you didn't build the engine, it may be worth researching with the builder and/or the distributor manufacturer. Good luck.

Carlos

[CraigS]

It was 180 out verified w/ the VC off watching the rockers. I will let Carl fill in details.

[carlewms]

Here is a very brief video of the first start ...

First ... Many thanks to CraigS for getting me through this first start.

The serpentine belt was squealing on the first start up and we had a a few coolant leaks where I used the old style clamps. The fans are not coming on; I am not sure yet if it is a wiring problem or and ECU problem.

On a subsequent run I did get the power steering cycled ... which works fine...I need to snug up the connections at the rack.

I have a very small oil leak at the oil pressure detector and the plug on the oil pan.



Thanks for all the support ...

[dougski]

Congratulations !!!!!! Sounds and looks great. Doug

[jrcuz]

Big step Carl! Looks and sounds great
JR

[KDubU]

Congrats! Sounds good.

Okay stupid question, what is the device one of you have in your right hand and what does it measure? Seen it a few times now on start-ups, it is recording temp?

[carlewms]

KDubU ... it is a timing light to check the timing ...

In this case Craig is checking the timing and adjusting the position of the distributor; Once we got the timing right (at least for now) I tightened up the retaining bolt and plate on the distributor.

By the way it was set at 12 deg.

Carl

[Jeff Kleiner]

Congratulations Carl (and Craig)!

BTW, even though I know all is well you're scaring the $hi+ out of me reaching around that belt with your loose sleeve

Jeff

[WIS89]

Awesome Carl, congratulations!

Craig, way to step up and help! Very cool of you.

Exciting milestone, and I appreciate you sharing your good news.

Regards,

Steve

[carlewms]

Congratulations Carl (and Craig)!

BTW, even though I know all is well you're scaring the $hi+ out of me reaching around that belt with your loose sleeve

Jeff

Jeff your right and I should have been thinking better than to do it with the loose sleeve ...

Carl

[carlewms]

Thanks all ...

I am now working through the bugs remaining in the electrical and engine controls:

1. The ECU is programmed using a handheld computer (looks like a Garmin) and it keeps losing comms with the ECU; this is caused, according to the FAST Forum,by spikes in the power circuit from the ignition to the ECU and the fix is to put in a capacitor connected to the power lead and ground (on order);
2. The fan override works but the fans controlled by the ECU do not ... this maybe caused by #1 above or wiring by the defective end user (me);
3. The temperature read on the gauge lags considerably the temperature seen from the separate sensor inputing to the ECU ... I think that is caused by the location of the sensor but it is a bit disconcerting to see the ECU at 190 deg F and the gauge still at 140 deg F...I am checking to see if I could wire the ECU input and the gauge input off the same sensor;
4. The Oil Pressure gage dial face is not getting power;

I have the following to do before go kart:
1. Torque the rear wheel axle nuts; and,
2. Fill and bleed the clutch.

Carl

[carlewms]

After getting help from the folks over on the FAST EASY EFI 2.0 forum ...

Loss of Communications between the Handheld and ECU: Apparently the handheld is very susceptible to noise (voltage spikes) on the control power input triggered by the 12V Switched Power (Ignition). The solution is to insert a wire parallel to the ECU to ground containing a ceramic capacitor. Here is the circuit:



After installing the circuit the communication error is almost fully eliminated and the handheld is programming the ECU correctly.

Cooling Fans Not Starting Automatically: The automatic starting and stopping of the fans is controlled by the ECU and programmed by the handheld. After getting the communications matter straightened out, I programmed both fans to start at 200 deg F and turn off at 195 deg F. I also discovered that I had under fused the power supplied to the relays; after using 30a fuse, the fans functioned properly during the subsequent tests.

Here is a short video of the engine running ...



Question:

1. Do I have the correct ranges for the fan set points;

[2bking]

I don't know about your engine but the Coyote PCM turns the fan on at 180F as seen on the water temperature gauge but is sensing the head temperature at a location different from the water temperature gauge. I think I have seen reports that the head temperature runs about 10F higher than the water temperature gauge. The on/off range seems to be about 10F.

[carlewms]

King,

The difference between on and off is preset with the EZ EFI 2.0 system; all you can do is set the turn on temperature and the system then sets the turn off temperature 5 deg below that temperature. When the temperature on the ECU reads about 200 deg F (just upstream of the thermostat in the intake manifold) the gauge reads about 87 deg C or 189 deg F. The sensor for the gauge is at the front of the engine on the DS on the intake manifold.

I just ran the engine up to temperature and took readings to analyze and will post those soonest.

Thanks,

Carl

[Carlos C]

Carl:

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with the FAST EFI product. So much for "EZ"... You'd think that the company would have corrected this issue by installing the capacitor onto the harness, or at the very least, provide you with the information, instead of you having to find out by researching on a forum.

On the temperature set points, 195 degrees sounds good for the fan to energize, but a 5-degree spread is not wide enough. Your fan may end up short-cycling on hot days, in traffic, and during spirited driving. If this is how it is pre-set by FAST, have you contacted them to see if that's a parameter which can be altered? If that's not possible, it may be worth to ask them if you can skip this feature from their system, without causing any hard codes to come up, and just go with the FFR thermostatic switch set-up. Just a thought. Good luck.

Carlos

[carlewms]

Here is a more detailed video after some tuning and correcting of the EFI System ....



If you see anything that looks out of whack ... let me know please.

[carlewms]

Carl:

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with the FAST EFI product. So much for "EZ"... You'd think that the company would have corrected this issue by installing the capacitor onto the harness, or at the very least, provide you with the information, instead of you having to find out by researching on a forum.

On the temperature set points, 195 degrees sounds good for the fan to energize, but a 5-degree spread is not wide enough. Your fan may end up short-cycling on hot days, in traffic, and during spirited driving. If this is how it is pre-set by FAST, have you contacted them to see if that's a parameter which can be altered? If that's not possible, it may be worth to ask them if you can skip this feature from their system, without causing any hard codes to come up, and just go with the FFR thermostatic switch set-up. Just a thought. Good luck.

Carlos

The FAST company support has not been well very fast ... If you call the technical line you go into terminal hold and they have not responded to my email inquiries.

Gordon Levy and the folks on the FAST EZ EFI Forum have been my savior on this matter.

I have not approached them on the set point matter ... Gordon may have in the past and can pipe in here if so.

I do have a manual fan switch on the dash that I can use to keep at least one of the fans to drive temperatures lower ... which I guess would help on the short cycling.

Below is the circuit for the fans ...



Thanks,

Carl

[2bking]

Your volt gauge was showing 12V. Perhaps you don't have the alternator wired up but if you do, something over 13.5V is expected while the engine is running. Mine runs 14.7V.

[carlewms]

King,

Just to be sure I went out and ran the engine ... I have 14v on the meter consistently at idle. I will watch it as I move forward.

Thanks,

Carl

[CraigS]

I think Carl ahs a one wire alternator. Sometimes they need a quick throttle blip to start charging.

[carlewms]

Craig is correct ... I have the one wire alternator.

I also installed a warning light which now appears to be useless on one wire alternator other than to show that I have the ignition on ...

Carl

[carlewms]

Leaking Power Steering Lines ... I have begun to realize that despite my time the Navy, Army Navy (AN) fittings and I just do not get along well. After running the power steering through several cycles, getting some leaks which I though I had cured by tightening, I found the return line at the pump leaking and the supply AN fitting at the pump leaking.

The AN fitting was remade and appears to be holding. The slip on pump side fitting was a slightly different story. I stripped away more of the SS wire braid, slipped on a fuel injection style clamp, heated up the PTFE with the heat gun and got it on the pump (with a whole lot more engagement).

The FI style clamp was suggested on another forum because the inside of the clamp is smooth and does not tear up the PTFE; I added some self sealing rubber tape to the end to clean it up a bit and get a better seal.



Fuel Injection System: Getting better but not perfect. One lesson learned if your considering an FI system (and to be fair it may not be all of them), is they are EXTREMELY sensitive to noise from the ignition system. While I may still have an ECU or a handheld problem, I took all day yesterday basically moving the EFI wiring as far away as I could from the MSD wiring...running the EFI down the DS of the car and leaving the MSD on the PS.





I also moved the MSD power off the direct connections to the battery and put them on the engine ...



I kept the 100 pf capacitor in the circuit below ...



The system is much more stable now ... but still on occasion fails to connect on startup.

I have ordered the MSD Noise Filter which should also shield out noise but also protect the MSD box from surges (like while jumping the car)

Speedometer: I was getting ready to order the speed sensor and connector for the T5 transmission and decided to see what it would cost to upgrade my speedometer to GPS.
It takes about 1-2 weeks and costs about $110; you ship your current SpeedHut unit back to them and they upgrade it for you. The sensor plus cable costs about $59.00 plus shipping from SpeedHut (less if procured locally). So for the difference of about $50 I figured why not. As soon as go karting is done it is coming out and going to Utah.

Go kart scheduled for Saturday or Sunday ... weather dependent ...

Carl

[AC Bill]

Well?

[carlewms]

Bill here is your answer and a little more ...

While not completely stable it is much more reliable...

Electronic Noise... in a continuing effort to reduce the ignition system noise impact on the EFI I installed a MSD Noise Filter near the MSD Box ....



Basically it is a big capacitor and is mounted on the PS Foot Box top ...





The main power supply and ground were removed from the battery and put on the alternator.

I also received the connector or pig tail for the Neutral Safety Switch and installed it in the transmission turned. The InfinityBox MASTERCELL requires a ground input from the transmission before it will allow starting the engine. For those not familiar with the T5, here is a photo showing the different connections on the transmission.





As soon as go kart is done ... the speedo goes off to get upgraded to GPS.

[carlewms]

Your volt gauge was showing 12V. Perhaps you don't have the alternator wired up but if you do, something over 13.5V is expected while the engine is running. Mine runs 14.7V.

King,

The voltage does drop to just over 12v when both fans are on ... Is this going to be a problem?

[carlewms]

Electronic Noise... in a continuing effort to reduce the ignition system noise impact on the EFI I installed a MSD Noise Filter near the MSD Box ....



Basically it is a big capacitor and is mounted on the PS Foot Box top ...





The main power supply and ground were removed from the battery and put on the alternator.

I also received the connector or pig tail for the Neutral Safety Switch and installed it in the transmission turned. The InfinityBox MASTERCELL requires a ground input from the transmission before it will allow starting the engine. For those not familiar with the T5, here is a photo showing the different connections on the transmission.





After speaking with SpeedHut I decided to get my speedometer upgraded to GPS technology; the cost is around $110.

[carlewms]

Sometimes I think I am just to plain dumb ....

I went out to check something on the car yesterday and it would not even start ... and I was getting a ground on my ignition circuit to boot. I did some (ok a LOT of ) troubleshooting and thought I isolated it to the ECU start up circuit ... And Then The Light Came On

Earlier I needed to check the torque on the rear axle nuts ... so I had put the car in first gear (as well as set the parking brake). Since I had installed the Neutral Safety Switch ... the engine was not going to turnover no matter what I did with the ignition system. I got all the wiring hooked back up put the transmission back in neutral and guess what ... It freakin started up. I sure felt dumber than a box of rocks.

Carl "Dumb as an Olde Goat" Williams