This thing going to come with a roof?

[nevinsb]

I was wondering if there was going to be an option for a removable hard/soft top for the 818? I'm really looking forward to getting one when I get back from Afghanaland, but the weather in WI can be a little unpredictable.

[joshuo]

There will be a softtop available, figure a ~ $3,000.00 option.
A targa and coupe versions are rumored but nothing official yet.

[RM1SepEx]

A quote from Dave himself... A soft top will be avail upon release of the kit...

I expect it will be rather expensive relative to kit price... $3000 ?????

[Silvertop]

A quote from Dave himself... A soft top will be avail upon release of the kit...

I expect it will be rather expensive relative to kit price... $3000 ?????

I'm hoping it will be less costly than that. But I'll be ponying up......... Gotta have a top!

[blueafro]

Three possibilities:

1) An Elise or Boxster Spyder style frame of a few stringers you slot in place when you need the top, and a single piece of cloth you stretch over it. In this case, if it cost $3,000, I'd hope the frame were crafted from unobtanium tubing and the covering from the skin of an endangered sea mammal.

2) Repurposing of an OEM top, probably with custom clear plastic side curtains to match the 818. With new components, that could easily hit $3k. The obvious option would be to use an MR2 Spyder top to match the MR2 Spyder windshield, but from the frame and body photos we've seen, it doesn't look like there is room, and if that were the plan, I expect we'd have been told earlier. A guy on another forum is home building a sports car using this windshield and top, but he started his design with the top as the basis for the entire design.

3) A home grown folding OEM style top, custom developed for the 818. If this is the case, then no wonder it's taking a while to finalize, and no wonder people are expecting to have to pay a lot. This could end up being the best top, but it also won't be cheap.

What is the weather like out there by the Massachusetts coast? I would have guessed a lot of rainfall. It's a little curious to see two small kit sports cars under development there, at the same time, for which a roof is the last thing to be finalized.

[Kalstar]

Yes, you get them at Harbor Freight they come in green, blue and silver.

[AZPete]

"It's a little curious to see two small kit sports cars under development there, at the same time, for which a roof is the last thing to be finalized."

Yup, it can rain in MA but Factory Five has sold over 6,000 roadsters with no tops! They don't make tops so they arranged for other companies to make soft tops for the roadster. One was okay and recently FFR had another company make a much better top, but it is more money. It looks to me like FFR will do the same for the 818 by using their contacts and experience to have another company make a soft top. I'm also guessing it will be in the range of $3,000 because it's a low production product, but the price and availability will be up to the maker.
Pete

[philly15]

I was wondering if there was going to be an option for a removable hard/soft top for the 818? I'm really looking forward to getting one when I get back from Afghanaland, but the weather in WI can be a little unpredictable.

woohoo another person from wisconsin!! where in wisconsin you from and when you get back, and when is your kit date lol

[Hayai]

Oh look, this thread again.

[metalmaker12]

Lol

[Mechie3]

I planned to have my mom make me a simple sun shade top. Attach to the windshield and attach to two or three brackets on the rear roll bar. It wouldn't keep all the rain/sun out, but it'd keep the sun off the majority of the inside and in a pinch, would prevent the rain from coming straight down on your head and only coming int he side.

[metalmaker12]

Lol

[Samiam1017]

Is there any word that the windshield frame is definetly not from the MR2 spyder? So body mentioned on another thread that its not ?

[RM1SepEx]

It IS from the MR2 Spyder...

[JeromeS13]

I was under the impression that the actual glass windshield is from the MR2, but the frame wasn't...

[Xusia]

Correct.

[metalmaker12]

+1 it is mr2 window and FFR frame

[RM1SepEx]

sorry... didn't notice FRAME... windshield only as per Dave. As you can imagine you couldn't find enough frames from cars to support any volume builds unless the single donor was the MR2 and they are not very common and severely underpowered!

[bnr32jason]

Have there been any hints made to a rough price estimate for a basic soft top?

Living in the Seattle area, it can be cloudy all day and not rain a drop or it can rain all day long, you just can't tell. So I would like to have a basic top just to hold me over until I get home if it does decide to start raining.

[Samiam1017]

My thoughts were that if its an MR2 syder frame and at roughly the same angle the. A soft or hard top might be able to be modified to work. Also the door window and mechanism would be really close also if they (818/mr2) had roughly the same size door

[metalmaker12]

2-3k was a suggested price I got from a FFR insider at moochfeast

[mekeys]

$3000 for the top...One third of the price of the basic kit..That lets me out..

Mel

[nevinsb]

Wow, didn't realize it would cost that much. We have a place out by us that makes custom toneau covers and jeep soft tops that might be a better option.

I'm in the Lake Geneva area. I should be back in winter, and will probably be heading through your area to go to the UP snowboarding. It probably won't be until at least next summer when I pick one up.

[bromikl]

Wow, didn't realize it would cost that much. We have a place out by us that makes custom toneau covers and jeep soft tops that might be a better option.

I'm in the Lake Geneva area. I should be back in winter, and will probably be heading through your area to go to the UP snowboarding. It probably won't be until at least next summer when I pick one up.

Philly15 is in Appleton, nevinsb will be in Lake Geneva. I'm in Milwaukee. I'll bet someone else here is in Chicago. Do we need a Midwest 818 club?

[Silvertop]

Philly15 is in Appleton, nevinsb will be in Lake Geneva. I'm in Milwaukee. I'll bet someone else here is in Chicago. Do we need a Midwest 818 club?

Could be........... And Forest Lake, Minnesota is only about 6 hours up the road. I know that because I am in Racine County WI with some frequency (at least once a year). My family's deep roots are there.

[Darkpiggy's dad]

I'm in Oak Park, just across the road from Chicago. I'm expecting delivery on or around Oct. 5/13. I need to build a three car garage this summer. I hope to meet some of you in the future. As far as tops go, I think three grand is pretty realistic for a limited production top if it is really first rate. I've driven many different makes of convertible sports cars and none of the tops, in my experience, compare for ease and speed of use to the Miata. I don't know how the miata top holds up over time. Alfa Romeo tops were very quick and easy as well but prone to a little leakage.

[bnr32jason]

If it's over $2000 for a basic soft top for this car, I won't be buying a top at all. I'll just pack some rain gear and seat covers for emergency situations.

[wallace18]

There is a video of installing the soft top on a MK4 on the FFR website. It should give an idea what the 818 top will be like. IMO

[BrandonDrums]

There is a video of installing the soft top on a MK4 on the FFR website. It should give an idea what the 818 top will be like. IMO

Let's hope not. The newer soft top for the MK4 isn't nearly as bad as the previous versions but it's still pretty darn elaborate. My bud who built an Mk3 roadster has spent the last 2 years scratch-building his own fiberglass hardtop because the available options for soft and hard tops are so inconvenient. He bought the $2000 MK3 soft top which was a leaky nightmare to use.

I really hope FFR is at least aiding in the development of the top options so they at least fit better than the ones for the '65 roadsters. Just a little factory support would go a long way in the form of having factory built mounting brackets on the frame and panels that are designed to allow a nice seal with an aftermarket top even if FFR isn't building the top options themselves.

[Silvertop]

I really hope FFR is at least aiding in the development of the top options so they at least fit better than the ones for the '65 roadsters. Just a little factory support would go a long way in the form of having factory built mounting brackets on the frame and panels that are designed to allow a nice seal with an aftermarket top even if FFR isn't building the top options themselves.

It seems to me that the development of the 818 soft top HAS been contracted out to a vendor -- IIRC, it is the vendor who developed the soft top for the '33 Hot Rod -- though I'm not 100% sure of that...

[wallace18]

It seems to me that the development of the 818 soft top HAS been contracted out to a vendor -- IIRC, it is the vendor who developed the soft top for the '33 Hot Rod -- though I'm not 100% sure of that...

I remember hearing the same from Dave in a post a while back.

[kemo]

if they (ffr) are browsing the forums, i would like it to be known that not having a roof would be a deal breaker for me. and i mean something more like a coupe and like the gtm: fully enclosed with useable windows. i respect that it is a kit car, but I would be seeing the 818 as a daily driver fun car. i would happily pay extra for a coupe version, or even one with a targa top.


thats just my opinion, though.

[Xusia]

Hi Kemo, and welcome!

That feedback has most definitely been given. At this point I think it's safe to say Dave knows how important a top is (he has stated many times that a top of some kind will be available at launch), and that there are many folks for which a lack of roll up windows (and various other options) is a deal breaker. However, it isn't smart business to postpone sale of an otherwise completed car pending features or options not everyone needs or wants. So their plan is to start selling the car as soon as it is ready to recoup some of the development costs, while working on adding more features & options. So be patient (hard, I know!), and you will likely have your cake and eat it too!

One thing to keep in mind is that Dave has indicated roll up windows will be an option at some point (meaning, NOT at launch). He didn't state specifically if the roadster would get roll up windows or if that would be a [future] coupe only option.

[FFR-ADV]

+1 Xusia and welcome Kemo!

Dave has clearly stated that a soft top would come first. See the DTS Rod Tops made for the Roadster:

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/prem...ible-soft-top/

Jim indicated that a removable hard top would most likely be constructed similar to the 33 Hot Rod with a windshield and rear window permanently mounted.

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/prem...ible-soft-top/

I also heard that an optional flat rear deck (rather than humps) down the road as well.

IMHO all of these will precede a coupe design. Factory Five has invested a lot of money in this car and new enabling manufacturing tools as well, so it makes sense for them to offer the VERY nice open roadster to those who want it now and start cash flow which can support and justify these later efforts. It will require patience on our part, but we will be rewarded for that down the road. This design benefits from all of the lessons learned from the Roadster, Daytona Coupe, GTM, 33 Hot Rod and others which are not offered now. Factory Five wants this car to be very build-able, as neither we nor they benefit from having many lingering half finished projects.

Our patience will be rewarded!

Cheers!

[bigAl]

Wow, didn't realize it would cost that much. We have a place out by us that makes custom toneau covers and jeep soft tops that might be a better option.

I'm in the Lake Geneva area. I should be back in winter, and will probably be heading through your area to go to the UP snowboarding. It probably won't be until at least next summer when I pick one up.

A TONEAU cover makes some sense for a low cost option. No fun to drive with one (although it is possible) but, if you get caught by an unpredictable shower it keeps the interior relatively dry. Also if you park the car for lunch or whatever, at least your stuff is out of sight.

[kemo]

i have absolutely no problem waiting for a coupe option. I see the 818 having a lot of potential and plenty of aftermarket support down the road, so again, I can happily wait for one. looking forward to seeing the final product of what they are currently working on!

I almost forgot to ask, will there be an option for a front license plate mount? Sadly, they are required where I live.

[bnr32jason]

A TONEAU cover makes some sense for a low cost option. No fun to drive with one (although it is possible) but, if you get caught by an unpredictable shower it keeps the interior relatively dry. Also if you park the car for lunch or whatever, at least your stuff is out of sight.

This is one of my biggest concerns, safety. With no windows and no top, I'm worried that car will get stolen. It almost has me worrying enough to cancel my pre-order. Don't get me wrong, I want the car specifically because it's designed as a roadster, but with no option for a top, windows, or at least a custom fit cover right from the start, I think it's valid concern.

It's not like I'll leave valuables in it, and I'll have a quick release steering wheel with a lock that I'll take with me almost every time I get out, but still, a little concerned. Hopefully by the time April 2014 comes around and it's time to take delivery of mine they will have some kind of cover to at least protect it.

Anyone else going to be parking theirs outside? I've got a carport, but no garage unfortunately. So I'm concerned with small rodents and insects (I hate spiders) getting inside of the car while it sits. Also the obvious concern of getting my seats ruined as well. Maybe I need to buy one of those cheap plastic sheds and park it inside.

Anyone know somewhere that makes weather proof car covers that are custom fit to the car? I guess I could store in the frunk (front trunk) and then cover it every time I'll be leaving it for more than a few minutes.

[kemo]

Jason,

To add input to your question, if and when I purchase, I plan on treating it just like any other vehicle I've driven: it gets parked outside and driven in any weather condition (well, minus snow). Theft is also a concern, something I haven't really considered. But if the thief wants in, they'll do what they can to make sure that they get in and take it. Although, the top still makes it more difficult (not the snap covers, those are easy to get into regardless).

[FFR-ADV]

Hi bnr32jason,

In the Boston area and probably other large metropolitan areas the thieves to worry about use tow trucks and ramp trucks. Windows and tops keep out casual thieves (kids stealing GPS and radios or joy rides). I do not plan to take my 818 to any malls. I wouldn't leave electronics in plain view in any car. Who wants a window knocked out for a GPS? Maybe one should think about security for the 818 more like you would for a nice motorcycle (many of which exceed the cost of a built 818). The 818 will be so rare initially that it if it is stolen it would be chopped for parts or it is a kid on a joy ride. A hidden switch on the fuel pump will likely deter a joyriding kid, but not the professorial thief who is towing it anyway.

One FFR roadster owner I know puts a small tarp over the cockpit held by bungee cords to the exhaust pipes even on sunny days when he drives it to work. This also keeps little hands out, sun from bleaching interior as well as keeping bird crap off of the seats.

I have no personal experience with this vendor but many in the Boston area use LoJack (not inexpensive $695 I think) to aid the police in making a quick recovery from professorial thieves. There are likely other similar products.

http://www.lojack.com/Cars-Trucks-And-Classics

Most folks I know with special cars tend to shun regular hotels, and stay at bed and breakfasts. I am sure there are many other security methods Factory Five customers have found over the years.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[Xusia]

This is one of my biggest concerns, safety. With no windows and no top, I'm worried that car will get stolen. It almost has me worrying enough to cancel my pre-order. Don't get me wrong, I want the car specifically because it's designed as a roadster, but with no option for a top, windows, or at least a custom fit cover right from the start, I think it's valid concern.

It's not like I'll leave valuables in it, and I'll have a quick release steering wheel with a lock that I'll take with me almost every time I get out, but still, a little concerned. Hopefully by the time April 2014 comes around and it's time to take delivery of mine they will have some kind of cover to at least protect it.

Anyone else going to be parking theirs outside? I've got a carport, but no garage unfortunately. So I'm concerned with small rodents and insects (I hate spiders) getting inside of the car while it sits. Also the obvious concern of getting my seats ruined as well. Maybe I need to buy one of those cheap plastic sheds and park it inside.

Anyone know somewhere that makes weather proof car covers that are custom fit to the car? I guess I could store in the frunk (front trunk) and then cover it every time I'll be leaving it for more than a few minutes.

PROTECTION FROM WEATHER, BUGS, ETC.
I would definitely go for the car cover (AT the very LEAST) given your situation. If one of those portable/temporary garages is an option for you, that would certainly be a step up from a cover while at your house. If it's feasible, you might also consider enclosing the car port. I know people that have done that, but I also realize you can't do that it in all cases.

PROTECTION FROM THEFT
Finally! An area in which I have some expertise and can contribute! There are many, many ways to keep the thieves as bay. I won't philosophize too much, but I do want to emphasize NOTHING is 100% fool proof. If a thief wants something bad enough they will get it. Your goal is to convince them it's more trouble than it's worth.

I'd start with a basic security system. Contrary to popular belief, fancy features and zillion sensors don't matter near as much as the quality of the installation. If you don't plan on doing it yourself, spend the time to find a good installer - someone with years of experience working on a variety of cars including some of the more expensive ones - not some kid the local stereo store hired a couple years back. Look for someone with stereo and/or alarm installation certifications (yes, they do have those). You are looking for someone who is clever, and has a mindset to outsmart the thieves. They should talk about how to hide the components (oh, and do NOT post any stickers or other indications that contain any information about the alarm such as brand, model, etc. - this only helps the thieves!). One sure way to spot a crappy installer is to let them know you are concerned about a quality installation that will keep thieves out; then ask them where they would mount the siren. If they mention the wheel fender, chances are good they are not a good installer.

As far as actual alarm features or sensors, something with "code-hopping" is a must, as is some kind of starter or engine kill. For a convertible like the 818, I think a glass breakage sensor is a waste, and shock sensors tend to be the culprits for those annoying false alarms. I'm a big fan of electrical current sensors and 2-stage radar sensors (so you get the pre-warning prior to full alarm). When installed properly, potential thieves get an audible alert that an alarm is installed and armed if they get too close. If they open a door, hood, etc, or try and start the car, it goes into full alarm.

Some cool tricks you can do:

• Wire red lights that always blink. That way, if you forget to arm the alarm, it won't be obvious. Personally, I like to put these on the top of the door sill, rather than the dash. That makes them all the more obvious.
• Wire the starter kill to something else that would prevent the car from running. This allows the starter to function, tricking a potential thief into thinking there isn't a start kill. This wastes their time and gives you more time to potentially catch them.
• Put in some fake hood pins. Make it obvious without looking obvious and have the wiring hanging in such a way they could reach it and cut it. The idea is for them to think they are disabling a hood pin so they can access the engine bay and disable the alarm. In reality, cutting said wire triggers the alarm. <-- This is one of my favorite tricks!

There's a lot of other stuff you can do as well that doesn't involve an alarm: Secret switches or keys that disable or turn off needed things, a special button to press when starting, etc.

Anyway, there are literally TONS of things you can do to help prevent your car from being stolen. I'm happy to help anyone if they have any questions. Perhaps a separate security thread?