Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Love Miguel! I saw him on a 916 in the mid-90s. It was a sight!

He lives in Las Vegas, One night after SEMA 2012 we went out on the town, had a blast.
He is the best Karaoke singer I know. To much fun for one person.
Sorry for hijacking your thread frank.
I promise him I would let him drive my 818 at a track. Maybe I can get Rasmus to take him out in his.
Bob

[Frank818]

There's no hijacking on my thread, everything's good to talk about.

We sure would want to see pix and videos of that!
Let's remember that to-do.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

There's no hijacking on my thread, everything's good to talk about.

We sure would want to see pix and videos of that!
Let's remember that to-do.

There is an overriding RULE about Vegas:
"what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"
start.jpgsema2012.jpg
Start of the 24 hour endurance Le Mans motorcycle race.
Can you name the person with me in the FFR booth?
Bob

[jayguy]

Danny "The Count"

I didn't know Miguel lived here. Guess I should hang out with motorcyclists more.

That should start soon enough once I get my Ducati back on the road.

[Frank818]

Ok I found why my electrolyte process wasn't very efficient. The anode I was using turned out to be crap. You have to use real metal, nothing painted, no stainless steel and no alu. And if you can, use something that does a 360 around your part. Or one anode on each side.

Baking soda instead of Washing soda will work, but will just take more time, much more in some cases.

I don't think I have found the ideal setup yet, but it's much better, my current is now 2 to 4 times more than it was with my older anode.
I still use 10amps at the moment, it works great so I want to keep it as is for the time being.

Here's my setup:

Rust1.jpg

You can see the shape of the spindle, that's where the bubbles and dirt come up to the surface.

And here's the rear spindle (Forester 2000, that is) after a few hours in the bucket:

Rust2.jpg


This is how the spindles, taken from a Forester 2000, looked before:

Spindles1.jpgSpindles2.jpgSpindles3.jpgSpindles4.jpgSpindles5.jpg

Believe it or not, they are in much better condition than the ones on my 2003 donor. Maybe after I clean my spare ones (donor) they will look better, but it will take me much more time. No pic of them yet.

[Rasmus]

Oh man. That seventh picture has got the CRUSTY.

[Frank818]

Rasmus, 2 pix just for you:

Donor rust1.jpgDonor rust2.jpg

Came out of my 2003 110k miles donor. Careful not to get too Krusty.

And a free pic I took at the same time, it just doesn't match the spindles! lolll

Donor shop.jpg

[Frank818]

Got my pedal covers which I bought for... 4 bucks.

Pedal Covers.jpg

[Rasmus]

No need to get out the ruler. Your rusty is thicker than my rusty.

[Frank818]

Which I think is awesome, cuz it puts the electrolysis process down to hard work.

Check out the hubs after only 3h electrified at 10amps.

Hubs1.jpgHubs2.jpg

90% of the rust is removed and I did not rotate at all the hub during the process. I do have 2 anodes now, but still, it's quite efficient.

Like I said, the quality of the anode(s) makes a huge difference. Than having as many anodes as possible to ideally make a 360-deg circle around the rusty part is best in my opinion.

I can't wait to try out one of those ugly yellow spindle. lolll

On a side note, I am not sure I do see a difference between 2amps, 10amps and 50amps. Doesn't seem to boil more. Not sure it's quicker. I'll try another hub tomorrow at 2amps and see if after 3h I get about the same result.

[Rasmus]

Knowing how much rust came off your knuckles, once you clean them up you'll be able to call them "lightweight racing knuckles".

[Frank818]

And here is my other hub, done on a 2amps this time, for 3h, same time.
Meh, I don't seem to see any tangible difference between 2 and 10amps.

This hub is the rear one (or front, I mix them) and other one in previous post was front (or rear, I just said I mix them loll).

Hubs3.jpgHubs4.jpg

[wleehendrick]

Meh, I don't seem to see any tangible difference between 2 and 10amps.

Your electric bill will!

[Rasmus]

I've noticed the same: anti-rust bucket 12v@2 amps for about 3 hours. If it needs more: wire brush for a minute, set it back in the bucket at a different angle, then another 3 hours.

[Frank818]

So looks like electricity in Vegas is the same as in Canada.

What type of wire brush do you use?
I use some Scotch-Brite scouring pads with cleaning stuff/soap embedded, not the rectangular pad version but the more "wire-like" version which is in elliptical form. Oddly I can't find a picture on the web.

[Rasmus]

I use an old welding brush I no longer use for welding. Wood handle, stainless steel wires, cleans up easy, doesn't rust.

[Frank818]

Ha I see. That's more, uhm, solid than my scotch-brite. lolll I'm surprised it doesn't scratch the parts, but I'll find something similar and see if it helps.


In the meantime, it costs me $560 to get my deleted parts shipped to me. Half of it from FFR to the intermediary place and the other half from there to me. Regulation differences between the 2 countries sometimes cost a lot of money for absolutely no reason. Oh well, I'll forget all that once my car will be running. So I'll have bad dreams for the next year. lolll

[Scargo]

...it costs me $560 to get my deleted parts shipped to me. Half of it from FFR to the intermediary place and the other half from there to me. ...

Can I get some clarification? By "deleted parts", do you mean this is stuff that was back-ordered because that they did not have it ready to be shipped with the original order? They charged you for shipping?

[Frank818]

The Canadian deleted parts, those that Transport Canada do not want us to import cuz they would consider our kit to be "complete" cars and they don't allow that, so we have to buy the parts from other place, which I don't understand cuz if we don't buy from FFR we will from another place, so the result is the same (for more money out of our pockets which means more money out of Canada, so again I don't understand). What I am saying is our kit is sold for less money by FFR, true, with less parts (minus the so called deleted parts), but then you have to buy them from somewhere else, which charges you $200 more than the deleted amount from the kit at FFR (let's say $1800 has been removed at FFR, you pay $2000 to get the deleted parts elsewhere) and they charge for the shipping to them and then for the shipping from them to us in Canada. That's life, knowing all that, I would have gone to USA and get them myself on a 2nd trip to USA, one trip for the kit and one other for the deleted parts from that other place. They did have a very great client service and follow-up on the stuff, it's just Transport Canada's rules I have to follow.

[Frank818]

Rasmus, after another test tonight, my conclusion is that I don't see any benefits for more than 3h at 2amps without rotating the part.
More than 2amps don't seem to help and more than 3h standing still either.
Obviously if your anode(s) don't "see" all of the part, then you need to rotate it, which means about another 3h or so, less seems to work cuz most of the effect has taken place already.

The key to this seems to be the quality of your anode(s) and the coverage around the part. Even you have the best anode in the world but it's so thin it covers only 1-deg around your part, it won't be that efficient. But with multiple anodes or a full 360-deg around the part, it's just awesome. As long as the quality of the anode(s) is awesome too.

[narkosys]

Frank sometimes the deleted parts can be a blessing. I am looking at building a coupe and I was going to upgrade all those deleted parts anyway. The money saved can go to those parts and less boxes cluttering the shop.

P

[Frank818]

You are right, sometimes. I mean, not that you are right sometimes, but that you are right about the "sometimes it's a blessing". loll It depends what the builder wants to do.

[Frank818]

Pretty much everything from the fuel tank is BOed on my order:

33058 Fuel tank
80277 Fuel level sender
8-278 Fuel pump connector
15205 Vent bushing
80519 Fuel filler neck
13978 Ground strap

[Pearldrummer7]

Wow! I was on the fence about cleaning up my hubs or just getting new ones. Frank, your hubs came out great! "Lightweight" indeed now, Rasmus! I'm going to copy your set up for my rusty car.

Nice progress!
Frank

[Rasmus]

"Lightweight" indeed now, Rasmus! I'm going to copy your set up for my rusty car.

When I first read about this de-rusting process, I thought it couldn't possibly work. And if it did, it wouldn't work well enough to be worth the hassle. But was I wrong. It's so easy. No harsh chemicals. You're not wire wheeling/brushing for hours. You just put it in the bucket and go do something else. Washing soda's cheap. Water's cheap. My anodes are 2 foot long, 1/2" rebar, from the big box home improvement store costing pennies. The most expensive item in this whole process is the battery charger.

I should probably start a post in the General Section so future forum members don't have to sift though our build threads trying to find this.

[Pearldrummer7]

When I first read about this de-rusting process, I thought it couldn't possibly work. And if it did, it wouldn't work well enough to be worth the hassle. But was I wrong. It's so easy. No harsh chemicals. You're not wire wheeling/brushing for hours. You just put it in the bucket and go do something else. Washing soda's cheap. Water's cheap. My anodes are 2 foot long, 1/2" rebar, from the big box home improvement store costing pennies. The most expensive item in this whole process is the battery charger.

I should probably start a post in the General Section so future forum members don't have to sift though our build threads trying to find this.

I was just going to suggest that you or Frank do just that. Get a material list and a few pictures of set ups in there. I was in disbelief until I saw your pictures. The results are shocking (I'm sorry)


Are there any limits to what you can and cannot de-rust? Since it physically changes volume of the piece, how well does this work with bolts?

[Triathletedave]

Maybe you should develop it as a 'miracle rust removing kit', and start selling them for $499 each. Might finance your entire project!

:-o))

[Frank818]

Are there any limits to what you can and cannot de-rust? Since it physically changes volume of the piece, how well does this work with bolts?

I don't think there is a limit per se, it's rust. If it's rusted, it will de-rust, given the basic assumptions which are metal, water, electricity, conductor (washing soda or other), etc. It works on everything so far. Sometimes it's harder cuz of the way the part is physically made, just rotate it and it will work.

For bolts I suggest zinc plating (that's what I'll do) or anti-rust paint, both after de-rusting obviously.

After de-rusting, the key is to prevent rust from attaching again to the part. There are various ways.

[Frank818]

Upgraded my bucket-o'-doom to Version 2.0!

Rust3.jpg

Now my steering rack. This one won't go in the BOD so that water doesn't go inside the rack. Sooo... anybody has an idea of how I can make this rack look like new? The best anti-rust product I have is CLR (http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.htm), so I have to use a cloth with CLR on it and work on the rack for hours scrapping it.

Rust4.jpgRust5.jpg

[Pearldrummer7]

Upgraded my bucket-o'-doom to Version 2.0!

Rust3.jpg

Now my steering rack. This one won't go in the BOD so that water doesn't go inside the rack. Sooo... anybody has an idea of how I can make this rack look like new? The best anti-rust product I have is CLR (http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.htm), so I have to use a cloth with CLR on it and work on the rack for hours scrapping it.

Rust4.jpgRust5.jpg

WOW! That is a rusty rack! You've got me beat, and I'm not upset about it.


Do you have access to a large blast cabinet?

[Frank818]

I was proud of my rusty spindles cuz they are "cleanable" without too much hassle, but I ain't proud of that freaking rat! I mean rack.

My mech has access to a sand blasting machine, maybe that's the most cost effective choice.
I don't know if I can leave the grease inside though. I have to remove the rubbers but beyond that I don't know.

BTW if you haven't noticed, there is a hole at the top of the left bushing.

[Xusia]

Frank, if the power fluid can't get out, then the water from the BoD can't get in (obviously, as long as you reassemble the fittings).

Another option would be sand blasting, which is what I did. But GEEZ-US, that has enough rust it might take an entire day to sand blast it off!! Is it functional?!?

[Scargo]

I want a rusty little Subie princess,
with a rack that is rusted
and looks like it's busted.
I'll sandblast all night
and make mountains of bits of rusty ol zits.
I just need a part I can mount...

[Frank818]

Yeah it is perfectly functional! Was when I've test driven it. This stupid rusty donor of mine is currently costing me almost 1200-1500 in new parts. But I will have new parts, let's face it that way. loll

Xusia what I meant by water going in is that I have removed the tie rods so I can see the grease inside the gears and that big metal shaft with dents sliding left-right inside the rack. That's where I don't want water to go.

Now I can compare my donor as being one of those rusty cars in the movies Cars and Cars 2. lolll

I'm sure no one would want to mount a rusty rack like this one on his 818...

Time to buy another rack. Are all non-STI 2002-2007 racks the same? I just don't want to end up with a different number of splines as I still can use my knuckle U joint and steering column.

[Frank818]

There is an ok one on ebay for $60 ($116 for me with shipping and charges) that comes from an 06 Impreza Outback. It doesn't list as being compatible with 03 Wagon TS, but maybe it is?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/04-07-Subaru-...469474&vxp=mtr

[Pearldrummer7]

Yeah it is perfectly functional! Was when I've test driven it. This stupid rusty donor of mine is currently costing me almost 1200-1500 in new parts. But I will have new parts, let's face it that way. loll

Xusia what I meant by water going in is that I have removed the tie rods so I can see the grease inside the gears and that big metal shaft with dents sliding left-right inside the rack. That's where I don't want water to go.

Now I can compare my donor as being one of those rusty cars in the movies Cars and Cars 2. lolll

I'm sure no one would want to mount a rusty rack like this one on his 818...

Time to buy another rack. Are all non-STI 2002-2007 racks the same? I just don't want to end up with a different number of splines as I still can use my knuckle U joint and steering column.

I think you're right saying you can't BOD the rack, unfortunately. Try blasting it, and if it doesn't come out nice, buy a "new" used rack? I see not-so-rusty ones in part outs being sold for sub $50 all the time. I'm sure there are plenty on NABISCO.

I looked a little; couldn't find anything on spline count. I did see a post quite a while ago (NASIOC) where someone used an RS column and it didn't fit with the WRX rack (2004 IIRC).

[Rasmus]

Are you going to de-power the rack or are you running power steering?

Looking at that rack, disassemble the whole thing and media blast the case. When you media blast, the media will get into everything. It'll get past the bellows; it'll get in the threads, it'll get in the rack and grease.

[Frank818]

Manual steering. With the trick to remove the steering play.

I'll check for a complete disassemble as an option. I just wonder if the time to work on it is worth one I would find on ebay. The bellows are removed already, no tie rods either, I can see inside the housing from each side. Sort of, full of grease.

So you think to disassemble all the parts and then clean them up, remove grease, blast, put grease and re-assemble.

[Xusia]

So you think to disassemble all the parts and then clean them up, remove grease, blast, put grease and re-assemble.

That is the route I went. It really was fairly easy, and not very time consuming. Although the rust on yours will definitely add to the time.

And the award for "Donor with the most rust" goes to... FRANK!! LOL

[Frank818]

That is the route I went. It really was fairly easy, and not very time consuming. Although the rust on yours will definitely add to the time.

If it's easy, then I'll try that first. You did that by hand or you used a gun and more heavy duty tools?

And the award for "Donor with the most rust" goes to... FRANK!! LOL

Yeah tnx Xusia, I have a big smile with my trophy and a list of people I want to thank for the superb performance, cuz after all, it wouldn't be possible without the seller of that donor! lolll