RM1Sepex Build Thread

[wleehendrick]

Headlight Bucket question:

My fiberglass buckets fit well, it appears that the lower front edge is supposed to come up underneath the front fascia's fiberglass. The headlights set in nicely.

HOWEVER the z shaped bracket that supports the front of the bucket appears to be waaaaay too long. The manual suggests slightly bending the bracket if it is long. Mine are so long bending just isn't working out. Did anyone ahead of me run into this issue? Just trying to see what everyone else did before I just re-bend the bracket or do I have my headlight buckets too low? Not sure how they will align with the fenders and the hood yet.

I just did mine yesterday and noticed both issues... it appears FFR is trimming the front edge of the bucket; mine also sit under the fascia; there's no lip to go over the front like in the manual. Also my brackets were quite a bit too long and took a big bend to make them fit.

[RM1SepEx]

Started aligning the front end today, I need to trim the front clip about an inch to get it back enough to line up with the fenders. It is starting too look like a sportscar!

P1110834.JPG

[Frank818]

You are getting close to the end!

[RM1SepEx]

You are getting close to the end!

I don't think that it ever "ends" so many that have started after I did made mods that I "may" need to incorporate... There are pros and cons to being a very early builder.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm happy with my exhaust assembly. The O2 sensor location will never be perfect, how can we get it downstream from the turbo far enough yet upstream from the exit so pulses pulling in air don't affect it's operation?

Work on the body continues, I want to relocate the IC to the right rear vent/side scoop area.

The body alignment is ongoing. As the temp increases, I find that I can continue to "tweak" the body into position

I'm finding that the nose needs a bracket to allow attachment at the lower radiator bracket, the nose is in front of it with the body located as directed.

The front fenders need to be relieved at the front inside edge of the headlights, and at the outside edges where it is a sort of "eyelid" over the lens

the hood returns, engine cover returns, trunk are all too long to get body alignments. I wish that FFR trimmed them more accurately as it is difficult for us to rapidly get a nice, clean straight edge. I can't do it with a reciprocating saw, if I use one I spend long amounts of time with a flat file to get a good straight edge. I'm not sure that I can do any better with a rotary cutting tool and abrasive blade.

It appears that my door skins are also too deep. They align almost perfectly without the inner door skin attached, so when they are and any upholstery is included they will need to be trimmed as well, again not easy to do, for us, by hand

I'm not sure what I can do with the area of the windshield support where it comes down to the door, a large gap is evident and I won't have stock mirrors there to partially hide it

The fenders and windshield need to be "adjusted" for clearance, not sure what will work best.

My desire to do a no paint car is severely questionable. As I get farther and farther into the body alignment I see more areas that are not very well finished with the gel coat. The mold's corners were not filled with gel coat when the layup was done. Add that to the voids that keep popping up. As you work with getting thee panels into alignment you twist ans stretch them slightly, what then happens, areas of the damn gel coat just pop off.

[RM1SepEx]

Here are my most significant issues...

the hood is tight at the back of the nose, the hood returns seem to flare out vs going down at a 90 degree angle, there can be no adjustment here, the nose is a single piece

the right rear of the hood is damaged

the right fender's edge is very rough, not sure that I can clean up the gel coat with sanding and polishing

the rear corners of both rear fenders are incomplete

the rear edge of the nose where the fenders meet are incomplete

P1110856.JPG P1110857.JPG P1110858.JPG P1110859.JPG

P1110860.JPG P1110861.JPG P1110862.JPG P1110863.JPG

[Mechie3]

I have the same (if not bigger) gap by the door/fender. The stock mirrors don't hide it at all.

[Frank818]

Ugh. The finish on these panels is utterly worse than mines. I don't have any of this. Maybe FFR made some production adjustments for the newer chassis #s.

Can you get a FB pro to do the mods? $ of course, but maybe he can fix most of this.

[metalmaker12]

This car is not a paint free car period. Even if you want to wrap or dip you will have to fill edges and cracks along with gelcoat air pockets. This is part of building any fiberglass body car. I have all similar voids and will have to fill them if I have not already.

[Brando]

I wish that FFR trimmed them more accurately as it is difficult for us to rapidly get a nice, clean straight edge. I can't do it with a reciprocating saw, if I use one I spend long amounts of time with a flat file to get a good straight edge. I'm not sure that I can do any better with a rotary cutting tool and abrasive blade.

I have been using a belt sander with great results

[RM1SepEx]

Ugh. The finish on these panels is utterly worse than mines. I don't have any of this. Maybe FFR made some production adjustments for the newer chassis #s.

Can you get a FB pro to do the mods? $ of course, but maybe he can fix most of this.

New employees for ramp up? Mine was an early kit #17, right when they were having issues doing 3 kits a week... Fiberglass layup is an art

Brando, I'll try the belt sander, how do you hold the panel? Time to get out my Isreali gas mask?

[Brando]

I have been putting my panels on my lawn because it keeps them pretty stationary and no scratches. I use one hand to support the piece the other on the sander and so far its yielded super straight clean lines. You can take down 1/4" on a 1' rail in 30 seconds. Reminds me of shaping surfboards with a power plainer.

[longislandwrx]

all these stories, i'll be go carting until the FRP panels come out in 5 years!

[Mechie3]

all these stories, i'll be go carting until the FRP panels come out in 5 years!

Step 1: Design Lotus 7 style fenders
Step 2: Make fenders
Step 3: Install Fenders
Step 4: Drive around in your "exo" car

[VD2021]

Looking at the pictures, I can't see FFR not exchanging some or all of them if you chose that route.

[RM1SepEx]

Looking at the pictures, I can't see FFR not exchanging some or all of them if you chose that route.

"If you are running a no paint setup, then yes you will have to work the panels to make them 100%. The body panels will never be 100% without them being made out of ABS plastic, or without being worked with. That is why we are offering the gel coat repair kits to customers who are planning on running the white bodies, to help with touchups. The reason you are having cracking in tight corners is due to spraying in the gel coat, letting it set then laying up your resin. When the resin sets it heats up causing small spider cracks. You cannot spray more gel coat into the area because it will gunk up."



Joe S

[RM1SepEx]

I have been putting my panels on my lawn because it keeps them pretty stationary and no scratches. I use one hand to support the piece the other on the sander and so far its yielded super straight clean lines. You can take down 1/4" on a 1' rail in 30 seconds. Reminds me of shaping surfboards with a power plainer.

I can't control a belt sander with one hand, I haven't felt my fingers without a tingling sensation in 23 years!

[Evan78]

all these stories, i'll be go carting until the FRP panels come out in 5 years!

LOL, that was my thought. I like exocars. Just mount lights on a bracket and go drive!

[RM1SepEx]

My QuickJack came in today... Not quite as easy to use as I expected... no plastic covers to protect the quick connects and keep them clean, does a nice job lifting my wife's Miata so the 818S should be sweet up on the jack. It's a bit heavy and awkward to store, move and set up.

QuickJack.JPG

[metros]

What heat/noise insulation mat are you using on the rear interior firewall? I've looked at several options but haven't been 100% satisfied with any.

[RM1SepEx]

It's fatmat. My plan is to use black vinyl over it for the interior. I made an electric reverse trike that uses the same build technique, steel spaceframe and silicone bonded and riveted aluminum panels. The sound was incredible. Now I didn't have a roaring turbo motor, just the electric whine but rocks, everything makes the aluminum vibrate various frequencies. I had to dampen it. The Fatmat is just peel and stick. From what I understand installation doesn't have to be perfect... It dampens sound pretty well and is easy to use. Everything that you may use is a compromise. I used it under the seats and then sprayed plasti dip over it to make a waterproof membrane... The rest of the interior will be vinyl or carpet. Not sure how to do the dead pedals, but their execution is too complicated. I may add a panel of aluminum to simplify that area...

[Frank818]

Pink wheels.
Something to do with breast cancer?

[RM1SepEx]

P1110839.JPG

No, my 17 yr old daughter chose the color, when she drove to school she received negative comments, my wife chose to swap them onto her Miata... I have 3 of them

sorry about the extra thumbnail... don't know what I did!

[Frank818]

You probably uploaded a pic you didn't want to show up and then you deleted it. I noticed when I delete pix they go down in the extra thumbnails and are... not deleted! And I have to re-do my post or something like that.

[Erik W. Treves]

Dan, your muffler placement is going to make the rear wheel well aluminum mounting pretty fun. The windshield frame needs to be trimmed to allow the hood to closed. I did mine on both sides and it clears fine. 80 grit sand paper will knock down those edges in a hurry!

[RM1SepEx]

Your car was sold, so now no photos

I'm holding off on welding it up... Like almost everything else in finishing the car its hard to tell what will interfere with something else.

[RM1SepEx]

Just picked up a neat little CF item on ebay yesterday... Bezel to go around dash instruments. I'll install it when I replace the eprom for mileage rest

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-Fiber...3D121333292518

[RM1SepEx]

What a beautiful day here in Maine today! 60's and partly sunny

Fixed tractor governor on the little troy built, finished up install of the 50 inch deck on the JD 318 Now Dani is ready for her mowing jobs!

Back to the fun stuff! Working on the body install. Cut and trial fit 1 x 1 aluminum angle to hold the fenders together and support the rear of the engine cover.

Cut the corners of the engine cover for clearance and started sanding down the edge of the engine cover return

Found a couple more small voids along the top of the rear fenders

rough grit paper takes it down pretty quickly, BUT my 30 year old sander died!

brace 1.JPG brace 2.JPG brace 3.JPG

I'm either going to add three two inch long adjustable "clamps" along the aluminum angle to hold down the back of the engine cover or use 3 Dzus fittings to hold it down. Add that to the two along the inside edge in the front and the engine cover will have no exposed hood pins.

[Canadian818]

I really like that, I think the Dzus fittings would be more user friendly.

[RM1SepEx]

Finally an update with some photos!

EC bow.JPG trunk gap.JPG RR corner.JPG R nose fender.JPG LR corner.JPG

LF fender.JPG L nose fender.JPG frnt headlight.JPG FR fender.JPG Trunk push.JPG

Based on other inputs I tried several methods of cutting down the returns to make the lips sit flush with the side fenders, front and rear. You need to make these lips approx 1/2 deep. I ended up using my 4 inch angle grinder with an 1/8 thick abrasive cut off wheel to make the cuts, used it to grind to fit too. I cleaned up any uneven areas with my new palm sander and 36 grit paper.

You also have to cut and grind the area of the fender that sits on top of the headlight "eyelid" so that you can position the fender to line up on the side with the nose and the front with the nose. I'm not quite done there, my front fenders are a bit short of the front clip. I had to cut off some of the shelf for the hood and relieve the fiberglass so that the fenders would sit down over the headlights

I added a fender support from Craig H (Mechie3) that is attached as a part of the hood pin bracket for the rear of the hood. If you raise the rear of the fender slightly you can get a better area where the hood and fender meet at the windshield

Before final alignment I need to repair the gelcoat and fiberglass in the following areas:

entire front and rear fender edge where it meets the hood, engine cover and trunk

rear corners of the front clip where it meets the fenders and the rear fenders where it meets the rear clip. I'll need to build up those areas with epoxy and gel coat as there is a bunch of material essentially missing.

The engine cover is bowed up a bit in the center. I found that it has to if you wish it to align well with the trunk as the trunk needs to be bowed a bit to match the rear clip. The rear clip/trunk gap is an issue as it increases in the center, the center of the rear clip needs to be pushed in and held in place... not sure how to do that???

I used Erik's posted info as a starting point. I removed about 1 inch from the center of the rear clip's lower portion to clear the transmission mount bolts. I enlarged the holes to 5/16 on the rear clip and rear fender bolts (2 holes each side as delvrd from FFR) I need to go a bit bigger to improve the rear trunk fit. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...install-thread)

I've been able to get gaps fairly equal at the thickness of paint sticks from ACE

I'm considering adding the old vinyl welting like the old VW bugs used to use where we bolt these panels together... Thin vinyl, small bead... Thoughts?

I'll be playing with the doors next!

[jontexas]

I think I will be taking any problem panels down to a local hot-tub manufacturer [there are at least a couple locally], and seeing if they will fix any problems up for a reasonable $$$.

Seems like they'd be used to refinishing etc.

[RM1SepEx]

More front end work today, trying to get that little extra space out where the tip of the fender meets the nose at the headlights.

Method:
I removed the headlights from the buckets. I attached the lower rear of the fenders to the side pods with Clecos. I was very careful to line up the body lines. I used a steel ruler to show the lines in the photos.

I next lined up the fender to nose pieces on the sides. I used multiple vice grips to hold them in place. I used a steel ruler again to get them aligned as well as possible.

I hung the nose of the two attachment points on the top of the radiator support. If I attempt to push the lower part of the nose to the radiator support it raises the nose off these pads. I chose to instead leave it on the pads. I tried both ways, this way stresses the fiberglass less. To attach the lower portion I needed to add a piece of 2 x 2 x 1/8 aluminum angle. Right now it is clamped in -place, I'll add nutserts to attach the lower nose to the angle and to attach the angle to the radiator support.

No matter what I do the fender to nose gap at that small point by the headlight will be about 1/4 inch. The rest of my gaps are 1/8. It's the best that I can do.

All that is remaining is to get the headlights to seat low enough that those points are at the right height. Right now they sit about 1/8 too high. I will clearance either the bucket or the bottom of the lights to get the fender to the proper height.

left fen edge.JPG

left headlight.JPG

left lowfen.JPG

rght lowfen.JPG

right fend edge.JPG

right headlight.JPG

[RM1SepEx]

In the following photos you can see how much I had to clearance the inside area of the nose to get it back enough to line up properly.

Once it is all bolted up I'll have 1/8 gaps everywhere except that little area where the fenders meet the nose at the headlights will be 1/4

You can also see the results of leaving several gallon containers on the trunk for a week. It has forced the trunk to have the curvature needed to match the rear clip. The rear clip still needs a slight push in to create a nice even gap for the trunk. The trunk sits in place well and the edges only pop up a 1/4 inch or so. When I started the flat trunk didn't really fit the trunk opening!

Getting closer!

Front view.JPG

left hood clearance cuts.JPG

Right hood clearance cuts.JPG

left trunk edge.JPG

right trunk edge.JPG

trunk fm rear.JPG

trunk gap.JPG

Trunk push.JPG

I did figure out this week that I can't bring J Lo (my 818S) to the open house, my Daughter graduates June 14th! for her for visiting FFR and seeing all those awesome cars and the community again!

[wallace18]

Your gaps look great. Nice work so far.

[Mechie3]

So you still have a gap neat where the door mirror and windshield meet?

[RM1SepEx]

So you still have a gap neat where the door mirror and windshield meet?

not working that yet but since I'm not using WRX mirrors I'll have to do something there! I want to add small wing windows like my Miatas and E30 BMW

Thanks Tom, taken quite a while, my panels were stored flat for 6 months, takes time and pressure to get them to sit in place well. I just wish that FFR did a better job with their fiberglass. I can't belkieve that after 15 years they still can't fill a mold properly and get a good gel coat finish. If the design makes it too difficult, then design and MFG need to work together and figure out what their capabilities are.

I wish I could just pound it out, but I'm not capable of doing that.

BTW just had an awesome autocross at the Brunswick Naval Air Station. The base closed and it took us years but we have FIVE events there this year on PERFECT concrete... Here's my best run in Frankenstein my Rotax DD2 shifter. I was 3rd in class and 3rd fastest overall. 7th in PAX with 98 participants... I was literally dead Monday, I'm very sore. After a day autocrossing I can't walk the next day! I used the lowest gearset and hit redline in 2nd so it was a 70 MPH max

43.303 http://youtu.be/Skk0g4uM2ZA

[AZPete]

Dan, what a beautiful bunch of concrete for autocross! I'm glad you had fun and did so well.
Most of all, thank you for documenting your body work. I'm not there yet but I'll be using your build thread as a crutch when I start hangin' fiberglass.

[RM1SepEx]

We have question but don't have the details of what people did until we ask and it dribbles out

You can't follow FFR directions, they won't get you anywhere but frustrated with a "beverage" in your hand!

My process has been pieced together from these snippets from others and Craig's little vimeos!

Looking at Photos Tom and Erik both had gaps like I do at the fender to nose point, I've been trying to get rid of it but I can't.

I was originally going to push to complete, now I've decided to do everything that I can by myself. There is no reason to rush it, and my health has degraded, I'm getting old and my MS is limiting how much I can do (2 2.5 hrs/day is my limit)

I just bought 5 yards of medical grade black vinyl to do my interior.

I also have a bunch of ideas for my center tunnel, I'm going to make it higher and make a custom center console. I need a cup holder for my water bottle filled with iced, low carb Monster energy drinks.

[nkw8181]

hmmm cup holder.... now that would be nice

[ehansen007]

FFR said they were going to make a video for the build to help everyone so I'm surprised there hasn't been anything yet after a year. I'll have to ask them about that. Most of the sequence of things in the manual makes sense but there is so much more instruction needed. I planned on doing a video of my body build but just wanted to get it done like most due to an event coming up of us so I passed. I ran into a lot of what you described and just re-finalized the front end and my gaps are much better even with the aftermarket headlights which were a serious pain. the rear trunk is a challenge as well and I sacrificed a large gap towards the front to minimize at the back. Doing a body on an FFR car is like doing a lot of things, it gets easier once you've done it and can wrap your head around it. Until then you will make mistakes. Having done a few of them I have some extra holes and elongated holes all over this car! Still, a build video would be huge.