Metalmaker's build thread begins

[metalmaker12]

Looks good. Are the rear vent openings necessary? I am considering leaving mine solid. From photos here it appears that FFR doesn't cut them out before shipment so I am assuming that I have the option to do what I want with the openings.

Getting as much air directed to the IC and out of the engine bay is very important to limit the portential for heat soak, so cut away my friend. Monitoring intake temps with a sensor, gauge and IC sprayer will help

[wallace18]

Rear bumper looks great! nice job. Bummer about engine though.

[metalmaker12]

Rear bumper looks great! nice job. Bummer about engine though.

I am 90 percent sure it's the head gasket, but the tear down will tell the story. I had a coolant leak form on the front drivers coolant hose area that meets the radiator. It formed and air pocket and prob took out my head gasket. This happened quickly since I was autocross it and pushing it hard.

[metalmaker12]

Motors out and tear down begins,
image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

[sponaugle]

I really enjoy the tear down. Feels good to figure out what broke. Good luck!

[metalmaker12]

Lol yeah it does I just gotta go find who has my strong metric impact Allen's set lol, you damn stupid Allen's bolts.

[shinn497]

I'm concerned that such a low mileage engine would break. I hope it isn't something major. Reliability is one of the reasons I want a Jdm engine.

[Tamra]

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you find.

[metalmaker12]

It is prob the head gasket, we will see soon. It leaked so it lost fluid under load. Any engine would have had a similar effect.

[C.Plavan]

What size hole saw did you use on the side vents? Same size top and bottom? I'm getting to cut mine out, FFR's frames are too small. I like what you did.

Also, what does FFR charge for the perforated vent sheet? size? I'm guessing 18 gauge (maybe 16), .1875 holes, .25 center to center at McMaster Carr.

[metalmaker12]

I made a template than I used a 1 1/4 spade bit along with a cut off wheel, files and 60 grit sand paper.

35"x24" for like $50 shipped image.jpg

[Kalstar]

Chris, when are you coming to the Cape? You still have the open invite to feel the difference.

[metalmaker12]

Bedliner the quarters, really looks great in the sun, put gas cap on

image.jpgimage.jpg


Motors at machine shop getting measured up and we will see what the plan is

[wallace18]

Fuel filler looks great. Bedliner is the way to go IMO. Nice job!

[metalmaker12]

Fuel filler looks great. Bedliner is the way to go IMO. Nice job!

I did it after paint which is tedious, but it comes out pretty clean if your careful and I had prewash handy( works great if you mess up). I am using rustoleum bed liner and brushing it on. It holds up really well on these panels, not so much on an actual truck bed though. At least I found a decently priced product that is sold everywhere that works good for this application .

[Frank818]

Is it an asphalt-based bedliner?

[metalmaker12]

Here's a link off a jeep forum comparing liners:


Herculiner is pretty durable. It's thicker base and high rubber content keeps it pliable (in moderate temperatures) after curing. Cold will cause it to shrink and depending on age it can get brittle. In the heat or with prolonged sun exposure, it tends to get a tacky feel to it and sometimes smells. I think it still comes in only 4 colors and anything other than black will cost more. Herculiner feels really gritty and abrasive, but gets better as it wears down. A guy has white Herculiner all over his chopped Bronco. It's been on there for about 4 years and is slightly faded, peeling in some areas, and has sand embedded from where he puts his surfboards. Not bad in my book. I'm wondering if anyone painted black Herculiner? Does that stop it from getting tacky?

Durabak/Cote-L is similar to Herculiner in application and texture, but the cost is about $100/gallon. On the plus side, it comes in 15 colors (more if you're daring enough to mix) and includes UV protection. It can be brushed on, but spraying is highly recommended. The end result is less gritty than Herculiner, its feel and durability is a lot like the "professional" stuff. I've seen it on a dropped Colorado, the guy doesn't haul much...a cooler or occasional keg, maybe his gear once and awhile. He applied it 2 years ago, and aside from it being a fugly yellow I don't see any fading and no major scratches.

Magnaliner...good stuff. Like the above 2, it can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed. It's another that offers several colors and UV resistance adding to its durability. This one goes on really thick, and supposedly bonds to the metal (plastic and wood too). Thicker means fewer coats are required, which is good news because the 1 gallon kit costs almost $200. The motor pool guys used a bunch of 1 pint samples to coat the back of a utility truck, then painted it OD green. They've hauled some really gnarly crap. So far, the paint is pretty beat up, but the liner appears fine.

Monsterliner is made by the same company as Magnaliner and claims to be the toughest of all the DIY bedliners. It's a two part 100% UV blocking mix that really is tough. This bonds like epoxy and can really take a beating. The SSgt that has this on this Tacoma usually tosses ammo cans and equipment cases into his bed...aside from the few dings and dents from the abuse, I haven't found any scratches in the lining. He picked up the 1 gallon mix for $120.

Rustoleum is great because it's cheap and easy to find. Walmart, K-Mart and most hardware stores have it in 15oz spray or 124oz cans. Note that while it can be brushed on, spraying is recommended. Rustoleum goes on thin and smooth, so if you want durability, plan on doing multiple coats for the best results. 2 or 3 coats may seem like a lot, but think of that as just a start. Coats should be applied 20-30 minutes apart, so plan on spending a lot of time on the application. If done right, you get a smoother more finished look. Something to consider, more coats = more product...the final cost would be about the same or usually more than Herculiner. The cured product has a feel and texture similar to vinyl vehicle cladding, textured yet smooth. I've used this twice on my own cladding after stripping the Krylon Fusion crap. Twice because I put a UV satin clear coat on it. The first time I didn't let it cure long enough. I don't garage my ZJ and after a year, it's holding its color. I've had to touch up a minor bumper scuff from a buddy who rubbed a concrete pillar. After a quick cleaning and respraying, it blended right in. I've also used it on my kids bikes, tool box, and lawn mower. Ok, so I bought too much.

Duplicolor...I've read a lot of opinions about the product, mostly negative. The majority of people calling it crap are trying to use it for something it wasn't designed for. But when it comes to its use as a bed liner, it's not that bad. It's very easy to apply and just like the others, durability depends on how many coats you put on. One negative about this product that is true about Duplicolor is its poor color retention. It seems to fade faster than the others when exposed to UV. A civilian carpenter contractor has it on his work truck, it looks chalky and beat up (scuffed). But it's still intact after a year of hauling lumber, cabinets, tools, etc. I've seen him put Armor All on it, which made it look like new, but was very slippery.

Line-X, not really a DIY product, but can be if you find some. It's supposed to be professionally sprayed, but even brushed on it looks really good. During the curing process, Line-X evens out and any brush marks disappear. Curing is supposed to be done in a paint room, but we did it with hair dryers set on low and a whole afternoon. Cost was $90/quart. Not really worth it, since we probably could've gone to the local "Lava Lining" shop to get a professional job done for about $

[GUNS]

Thanks, I'll probably do something similar.

[Scargo]

Good info. Thanks for the detailed descriptions. Along the lines of what you said, a cold or high humidity day would probably give you a poorer result. Use a respirator.

[wleehendrick]

Bedliner the quarters, really looks great in the sun, put gas cap on

Looks great, comes out looking similar what I'm using (3M spray rubberized undercoating bought on Amazon).

[Doowop]

I'm just courious why you didn't just go with paint?

[metalmaker12]

You could just paint it, but this stuff is more durable, thicker and also sound deadens better

[metalmaker12]

Btw, my motor has two cracked pistons#2 and #4 (ringlands) and both headgaskets are blown. I attribute it to high IAT's and this will be a problem for all of the air- air IC 818 owners. The stock wrx/Sti barely gets the airflow needed to stay away from high IAT's in top mount form and they are getting direct airflow. The 818 is not getting proper airflow and can not unless you set it up like the blue R ( windscreen and pass seat removed with duct directly to IC) I am going awic, and recommend it to anyone that is going to push the 818 more than how my grandmother drives. ( that's everyone).

[Frank818]

I am going awic, and recommend it to anyone

There you go, now we're talking, I love AWIC.

[Wayne Presley]

There you go, now we're talking, I love AWIC.

Btw, my motor has two cracked pistons#2 and #4 (ringlands) and both headgaskets are blown. I attribute it to high IAT's and this will be a problem for all of the air- air IC 818 owners. The stock wrx/Sti barely gets the airflow needed to stay away from high IAT's in top mount form and they are getting direct airflow. The 818 is not getting proper airflow and can not unless you set it up like the blue R ( windscreen and pass seat removed with duct directly to IC) I am going awic, and recommend it to anyone that is going to push the 818 more than how my grandmother drives. ( that's everyone).

I have the solution

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Btw, my motor has two cracked pistons#2 and #4 (ringlands) and both headgaskets are blown. I attribute it to high IAT's and this will be a problem for all of the air- air IC 818 owners. The stock wrx/Sti barely gets the airflow needed to stay away from high IAT's in top mount form and they are getting direct airflow. The 818 is not getting proper airflow and can not unless you set it up like the blue R ( windscreen and pass seat removed with duct directly to IC) I am going awic, and recommend it to anyone that is going to push the 818 more than how my grandmother drives. ( that's everyone).

Hi Metal,
I want my engine to be as reliable as possible. I could still destroy an engine with a AWIC pump failure.
Would it be wise to add a temp switch to the intake air?
Bob

[metalmaker12]

Hi Metal,
I want my engine to be as reliable as possible. I could still destroy an engine with a AWIC pump failure.
Would it be wise to add a temp switch to the intake air?
Bob

A temp switch? Temp sensor with a gauge would be a good way to monitor it, along with an indicator light on the pumps ground side so it turns on when pump is on ( unless you run it full duty). With speed density we could tune the wrx to use a iat temp sensor after the turbo. I am working on that aspect also. Wayne's got his wiring setup also, but it can be done with the factory ecu.

[Wayne Presley]

It's best handled by having the IAT sensor after the intercooler and let the ECU adjust timing and fuel based on temps. Completely automatic and can take care of any failure situation.

[Frank818]

It's best handled by having the IAT sensor after the intercooler and let the ECU adjust timing and fuel based on temps. Completely automatic and can take care of any failure situation.

That is exactly my setup. I assume here I have keyed in the correct fuel and timing values in my ECU. I believe I did based on what I've seen from others, but that is my problem.

There is one thing I am unsure yet: what type of IAT sensor we should use. I have 2, one that is slow reacting to changes (OEM sensor) and one that is instant (aftermarket sensor for other controls). If you WOT for 5sec, the slow OEM sensor will not or just barely change its value, therefore not adjusting timing/fuel. But the instant sensor will show the exact temp rising. Of course if you race or WOT long enough, the OEM slow "trendy-detector" sensor, I call it, will log the change and adjust timing/fuel. Not sure which is best to use for the ECU.

[JeromeS13]

That is exactly my setup. I assume here I have keyed in the correct fuel and timing values in my ECU. I believe I did based on what I've seen from others, but that is my problem.

There is one thing I am unsure yet: what type of IAT sensor we should use. I have 2, one that is slow reacting to changes (OEM sensor) and one that is instant (aftermarket sensor for other controls). If you WOT for 5sec, the slow OEM sensor will not or just barely change its value, therefore not adjusting timing/fuel. But the instant sensor will show the exact temp rising. Of course if you race or WOT long enough, the OEM slow "trendy-detector" sensor, I call it, will log the change and adjust timing/fuel. Not sure which is best to use for the ECU.

Get the GM or AEM IAT sensor. It can be placed anywhere with a bung and the OEM ECU can be adjusted for the new readings.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Get the GM or AEM IAT sensor. It can be placed anywhere with a bung and the OEM ECU can be adjusted for the new readings.

When your talking about sending the after intercooler IAT sensor to the OEM ECU. Does that mean you are disconnecting temp sensor that is part of the MAF sensor? Or is this an additional sensor?
Bob

[JeromeS13]

When your talking about sending the after intercooler IAT sensor to the OEM ECU. Does that mean you are disconnecting temp sensor that is part of the MAF sensor? Or is this an additional sensor?
Bob

You will cut the wires going to the IAT sensor that is build into the MAF sensor and splice the new sensor into those wires. There should be a DIY guide on NASIOC.

[metalmaker12]

Not to smash your insightful suggestion, but I have heard, withnessed this can cause issues because the iat is integral to the maf and the Ecu in a maf based configuration relies on it to be where it is stock.Also the response time of Ecu based iats is pretty slow, so with improper resistance to that circuit it could cause insufficient readings and actually not do any good. I am trying to intergrate a whole new circuit to work with that circuits signal wire but be seperate. I am the idea guy, some of my electrical guru friends are working on it. They have had issues on customers cars with the splicing. If you run a setup like Wayne's were it is intergrated into his system to run the iat anywhere like SD than that is the way to go, but with a maf it's a bit more tricky cause you must compromise the circuit to achieve two iats.

In fact I am pretty sure it would not even function. The iat is a resistive sensor. No way you can tie two together because if this. When you change the iat you have to change the scalar in the Ecu. You def can't put two in parallel.

[Tamra]

Our idea is to have a separate controller for fans and an intercooler sprayer running logic based on BAT pre and post intercooler temperatures. We'll probably use GM IAT sensors. Also, something that will give warnings to the driver if things don't look happy. Also, we'll probably also have an override "autocross mode" for maximum cooling.

[metalmaker12]

Our idea is to have a separate controller for fans and an intercooler sprayer running logic based on BAT pre and post intercooler temperatures. We'll probably use GM IAT sensors. Also, something that will give warnings to the driver if things don't look happy. Also, we'll probably also have an override "autocross mode" for maximum cooling.

That will only work for normal driving, unless you get direct airflow pressure to the air to air cooler you won't reach it's 50% potential no matter using fans, sprayers etc. The awic is the only solution for an S that you will push, even the R should just use one. This is why FFR is using one now. Liquid just cools anything better than air does. The better the awic, the more power you can make and in a much safer way. This is true even on racing subies, unless your running a front/top, V etc mount with a sprayer or a awic your asking for heat soak, high iats and detonation. This will pop a stock or fully built engine. I am not trying to set a downer, but the awic in the 818 is a total must get.

[Tamra]

That will only work for normal driving, unless you get direct airflow pressure to the air to air cooler you won't reach it's 50% potential no matter using fans, sprayers etc. The awic is the only solution for an S that you will push, even the R should just use one. This is why FFR is using one now. Liquid just cools anything better than air does. The better the awic, the more power you can make and in a much safer way. This is true even on racing subies, unless your running a front/top, V etc mount with a sprayer or a awic your asking for heat soak, high iats and detonation. This will pop a stock or fully built engine. I am not trying to set a downer, but the awic in the 818 is a total must get.

Yeah, you have a good point. We are checking into an AWIC system, just hoping to keep the cost down. Depending on how much all of the extra tubing/fittings cost, we are looking at FrozenBoost with an upgraded Bosch pump.

How much AWIC radiator/heat exchanger do you think the car needs? We do not track - only autocross. And on the topic, for the regular radiator, are most people sticking with stock or upgrading? I tried searching but couldn't find much, other than fitment issues for larger ones.

[RM1SepEx]

Tamra, I think my aftermarket side mount air to air will work just fine at about $500 or less. With no Y pipe disrupting flow, bar and plate design and more area and a scoop on the outside I'm expecting 50% more IC cooling than stock w/o the complexity of AWIC

[Tamra]

Tamra, I think my aftermarket side mount air to air will work just fine at about $500 or less. With no Y pipe disrupting flow, bar and plate design and more area and a scoop on the outside I'm expecting 50% more IC cooling than stock w/o the complexity of AWIC

How much pipe volume will you have? Do you have any concerns about air volume based boost lag? Also, what core are you using, and just one, or two?

[Wayne Presley]

Yeah, you have a good point. We are checking into an AWIC system, just hoping to keep the cost down. Depending on how much all of the extra tubing/fittings cost, we are looking at FrozenBoost with an upgraded Bosch pump.

How much AWIC radiator/heat exchanger do you think the car needs? We do not track - only autocross. And on the topic, for the regular radiator, are most people sticking with stock or upgrading? I tried searching but couldn't find much, other than fitment issues for larger ones.

My AWIC comes with the Bosch pump, T bolt clamps, silicone hoses, huge heat exchanger, heat exchanger and IC mounts with hardware and you just have to bolt it on. BTW the stock sized radiator does just fine.

[metalmaker12]

There is no compromise for an awic set up. I am using Wayne's setup and it should do the trick, and is at a good price and ready to bolt in, time is also money in my world. I will have an iat, egt temp gauge, along with boost oil press and a/f to monitor it and I am running my pistons on the looser end of the specs to allow for heat expantion. I am also going to use an ice box on the hot days.