Building 818r from SCRATCH, Need input and help

[Airmergency818R]

Just received kit with all the upgrades FFR had to offer. I want to build all new, ordering everything I need to make this a 400hp track car. After opening boxes, looks like im at a stand still with the front suspension. I need a complete bolt kit for this car and very interested in going with aftermarket performance options. I've been reading some forums here and am slowly learning what members are recommending. Any input from members would be much appreciated.

[Santiago]

I think Chad Plavan's build is pretty much what you're after. I'm doing something very similar, at least insofar as the list of used OEM parts is very short. All of these you can get as part-outs, so you're not doing much of any disassembling (it's still a dial-a-part affair):

Steering knuckle/upright: you can still get these as new castings, but aside from avoiding getting a really rusty set there's little benefit to getting "new" ones that I can see (if you get new castings, you still need to have new hubs/bearings installed)
CV joints: suppose you could get these new, but not sure of the advantage - you need to swap these around anyway
Steering rack: again, you can get this new, but aside from avoiding a damaged unit, I don't see the benefit of paying the premium price for new (note: you're going to need a bump-steer kit, so you shouldn't worry about the condition of the tie-rod ends)
Steering column: you can get aftermarket race columns for this, but the OEM ones are just so damn inexpensive and they strip easily for R-use (grinder might help here)
Engine/Trans: could go new, and many folks are building/having built engines to start, so that's up for grabs

I got a complete suspension set up as a crate delivery: half-shafts w/CV joints, knuckles, steering rack, and Brembo brakes thrown in for good measure. All told, that saved a lot of money over purchasing all the needed parts new, and disassembly wasn't hard.

Best,
-j

[Scargo]

Thanks Santiago; don't mention me! I know, I'm in-process, slow and on the lunatic fringe.
Airmergency818R: Can I call you "Air"?

Common questions are: How much time and money do you have? What are you going to do with this track car and what skills or qualifications do you have to build it? Are you doing this by yourself? Do you like red?

Since you are going down a path similar to me then I would suggest you do't get Subaru parts for the front half of the car. Answering the questions would help us.

[C.Plavan]

Yep- With an 818R you do not need any sort of donor. Just buy the parts you need, and a bunch of bolts/nuts.

For spindles etc get them off of Ebay from the West Coast. No rust that way. Other suspension parts I bought new from Subaru- I knew they were straight, and no cleaning required.

[FFRSpec72]

Mine is a non-donor build, but I'm using, half-shafts (new boots), spindles (front/rear with all new bearings), steering column (stripped), pedal assemble, dash pod, wire harness (all, and then iWire magic), radiator overflow tank (front), steering rack (new tie rod ends, boots), master cylinder, clutch master/slave, ebrake and a massive bucket of bolts from a 2002 WRX. I'm also using JDM EJ207v7 engine and JDM 5sp transmission with 4.11 ratio with 35,000km. Cost for these all parts was $5100

[Santiago]

Ok, so there's this guy...tends to ask all sort of PITA questions, like "how much time & money do you have?" and "Do you like red?"

Seriously though, Glyn brings up good points that can make a project swing wildly in different directions. My build has some more esoteric points to it as well which meant that it made little sense to get some parts. For that matter, I'm not using many of the supplied FFR parts (like the front fenders...or the bumper...and I'm eyeballing that rear bumper too, at least half of it has to go...). Same thing for Glyn (only his obsession is the front suspension -can't wait to see it when it's done). So spending a little time up front thinking about what your goals are for the build and eventual use for the car might help.

Like red: saves time/money on paint.

Next Q: can you or a buddy weld? A game-changer if you're thinking outside the box. Otherwise you may find yourself adding to the project cost.

Is the desire for new parts rooted in ease of assembly or concern over wear/fatigue? This might change how you pick through different parts-options. If you're worry is wear/fatigue, there are many used OEM parts that work fine with a little attention as Tony pointed out (new boots for half-shafts, etc.). Most of my choices came from this concern, so I'm using new parts (hubs/bearings, control arms, etc.). However, here and there I was concerned over assembly. For example, I don't do wiring. So that pretty much meant (a) my electrical-engineer buddy is doing it for me, and (b) I got him an Infinitybox system to play with (he doesn't hate me now).

Back to Glyn's observation: many of my choices were performance based. I wanted something specific out of a system, so there wasn't much point using new or used OEM parts.

For example: I planned from the start to use a data-logging dash unit (probably AiM unit, but we're not there yet). So there was no need to source an OEM display.
Another example: I planned from the start to use a Wilwood pedal set w/balance bar. So no need to source an OEM master cylinder, etc.
Last example: I planned from the start to develop my own aero package. So no need to get the FFR parts.

I think before the credit card starts heating up you'd do well to look ahead a bit.

And Tony, please tell me where you got a JDM ej207v7 and trans for $5,100! I can't find them these days for under $5,500 (and most are closer to $6K). Because...we all know the JDM ej207 (V7 or V8) is the best engine for this car.

Best,
-j

[Airmergency818R]

I've been following all your post and appreciate all your input as foreign cars are not my expertise. Money is not an issue, and I'm very experienced with complete overhaul projects with american muscle cars (you should see my garage lol). My goal is to take this project to the track and have a 9 second or less 1/4 mile beast, along with having competitive track times! I would like to max the limit on this build and still be able to pass smog in California. I would like to have the widest possible tires in rear, along with having a 400 hp plus engine with a transmission that could handle it. I bought the 818r with the most perks i could get from factory five including the sti conversion kit, etc. I'm at a stand still now and looking to order new aftermarket performance parts starting with the front suspension. also looking for a complete nut and bolt kit if available? In building muscle cars over the years, I was able to get my hands on all this stuff but Subaru is new to me and i'm in need of resources asap. appreciate your input guys.

[longislandwrx]

I've been following all your post and appreciate all your input as foreign cars are not my expertise. Money is not an issue, and I'm very experienced with complete overhaul projects with american muscle cars (you should see my garage lol). My goal is to take this project to the track and have a 9 second or less 1/4 mile beast, along with having competitive track times! I would like to max the limit on this build and still be able to pass smog in California. I would like to have the widest possible tires in rear, along with having a 400 hp plus engine with a transmission that could handle it. I bought the 818r with the most perks i could get from factory five including the sti conversion kit, etc. I'm at a stand still now and looking to order new aftermarket performance parts starting with the front suspension. also looking for a complete nut and bolt kit if available? In building muscle cars over the years, I was able to get my hands on all this stuff but Subaru is new to me and i'm in need of resources asap. appreciate your input guys.

To build an R most of the bolts are now included, I had to buy some M16s (now included) more M12/M14 flange bolts and flange nuts etc, but I don't think there's that many required that would necessitate a kit.

I got most of mine from boltbarn on ebay.

If money Is no issue, for suspension call MSI. they will set you up with billet front and rear uprights, billet lateral links and trailing arms. You will save many pounds.

They can also set them up to run pretty much any brakes you are looking to run... Porsche composite discs? no problem.

If you don't want to spend 20k, call LIC motorsports, they can set you up with new front and rear uprights, assembled and upgraded.

for cooling system, Koyo or Mishimoto radiator/fans/Everson hard pipe kit.

a new 2015 steering rack will be your best bet, fastest ratio.

a Cosworth long block will get you where you want to be for reliability, and can be had off the shelf. There's tons of good engine builders out there, and a few great ones.

Iwire can build you a custom wiring harness that maintains obd2

you will need traction control. even with it a 9 second pass will be very tough. even with 5 or 600hp, you are going to be in uncharted waters, this car wasn't designed for drag racing. With your muscle car background, you know what it takes to transfer weight and put power to the ground but reengineering the chassis for straight line shouldn't be impossible.

a 10.5 slick should be able to fit under there, the trick will be getting the height you need for a good contact patch.

You'll need some custom gearing as well. Andrewtech could set you up with an (internally) new 6mt built to your specs.

or you may want to go with an automatic, tough to shift faster than an auto.

my .02

btw What cars do you currently have?

[Santiago]

Ok, for the front suspension, here's a nice heads-up Chad gave us early on: use the OEM upgraded arms. SPT (Subaru Performance Technology),
part number is B2010FE251DS, approx. $350/pair. You get upgraded bushings in back and a fresh ball joint (not sure if it's stronger than what comes with standard arms). No need to mess with aftermarket camber-adding this or that. There is a lot of room for adjustment built into the 818R platform (see the 818R build supplemental for details).

Now you need to make a choice for front knuckles (if it hasn't been made for you already by our selection of and plans to use the STi conversion pieces).
A. Do you use non-STi steering knuckles?
B. Do you use STi steering knuckles?
C. Do you use custom steering knuckles?

If (C), then disregard what I'm about to say, because as longisland said, you can get them made pretty much any way you want. The choice between (A) and (B) impacts your available brake options. The non-STi knuckles will accept the lower-end brake upgrades (like FFR's Wilwood offerings). These are really nice brakes for the money, and if you're not committed to using STi knuckles up front (no reason why you can't still use them in back...or use the non-STi knuckles in back with the FFR conversion pieces) then they're an easy way to get a great set up. A few other brake manufacturers also offer entry-level brake upgrades for these knuckles, so you're well supported.

If you go with (B), you're hosed looking for an inexpensive brake upgrade. The trouble is that the STi cars already came with Brembo brakes, so the aftermarket doesn't offer intermediate level brake upgrades for those knuckles. They must figure you already have decent brakes, so why come to the market with an equivalent set up? Anyway, you have to jump to higher end (read: very high-dollar) brake upgrades that offer way more brake than this car needs. Of course, the Brembo brakes are a solid brake package, but (a) they're heavier than something like the Wilwood option and (b) they are rather wide, making wheel fitment a greater concern than when using the Wilwoods. The upshot is that you can get the OEM Brembo brakes for a decent price. My full set (fr/rr) was about $900, usable-rotors included (part of the crate deal I got on the entire suspension).

Something to consider.

Best,
-j

[Plebeian]

In my opinion, you'll need at least 500 rwhp to be "capable" of high 9's with drag radials on a well prepped track with a car like this (set up for handling prowess). Even then it would be tough, but a lot of fun trying. Cheers.

[longislandwrx]

Ok, for the front suspension, here's a nice heads-up Chad gave us early on: use the OEM upgraded arms. SPT (Subaru Performance Technology),
part number is B2010FE251DS, approx. $350/pair. You get upgraded bushings in back and a fresh ball joint (not sure if it's stronger than what comes with standard arms). No need to mess with aftermarket camber-adding this or that. There is a lot of room for adjustment built into the 818R platform (see the 818R build supplemental for details

If money is not an issue, use MSI tubular front LCA's they can add the mount point for the front coilover to the tube, they can also be setup with a balljointless configuration if you are using their uprights iirc.

http://www.mooresport.com/indexe.php...a-front-a-arms

[FFRSpec72]

And Tony, please tell me where you got a JDM ej207v7 and trans for $5,100! I can't find them these days for under $5,500 (and most are closer to $6K). Because...we all know the JDM ej207 (V7 or V8) is the best engine for this car.

The engine and transmission were $4200 shipped (so engine and trans were $3600 and $600 for shipping) from Canada to Seattle, the rest of the parts were just shy of $900 (from a part out on Craigslist), thus the $5200. I have been dealing with JDM Racing Motors in Quebec. Everything was as described, and no issues during shipping and delivered right into my garage.

[sponaugle]

In my opinion, you'll need at least 500 rwhp to be "capable" of high 9's with drag radials on a well prepped track with a car like this (set up for handling prowess). Even then it would be tough, but a lot of fun trying. Cheers.

I would agree, and perhaps a bit more due to traction problems at lower speeds. I am using a 600whp EZ30R for that exact reason. Traction will be the real engineering problem.

[sponaugle]

you will need traction control. even with it a 9 second pass will be very tough. even with 5 or 600hp, you are going to be in uncharted waters, this car wasn't designed for drag racing. With your muscle car background, you know what it takes to transfer weight and put power to the ground but reengineering the chassis for straight line shouldn't be impossible.
or you may want to go with an automatic, tough to shift faster than an auto.
my .02

Absolutely. You will need something like the Racelogic traction control, or even better the a Motec with traction control. Boost by gear would also make a big difference.
If it is ET not MPH you are after, an auto will make a difference.

I am building for a similar goal (9s 1/4 mile), and I expect there to be a lot of work to get there.

Jeff

[Jaime]

Boost by gear would also make a big difference.

Funny that this is still something common ECUs don't do. I built a custom boost-by-gear system for one of the big name guys on the motorcycle turbo scene back in 2002. We used multiple pressure reference lines solenoid switched to the back side of a pneumatic wastegate.

[sponaugle]

Funny that this is still something common ECUs don't do. I built a custom boost-by-gear system for one of the big name guys on the motorcycle turbo scene back in 2002. We used multiple pressure reference lines solenoid switched to the back side of a pneumatic wastegate.

Most newer aftermarket systems do. The Link, AEM, Vipec, Motec, GEMS, Cosworth, and many others can do per gear boost control. A few select Subaru factory ECUs have provisions for per gear, and the factory GT-R ECU has per gear boost control. For a while I used a TurboXS boost controller which had independent maps for each gear.

Jeff

[Airmergency818R]

Thank you Santiago.. really appreciate your help

[Airmergency818R]

Thank you Longislandwrx, I currently have a 1970 mustang I've rebuilt along with a couple other mustangs over the years. This is my first foreign car and want to go all out with out. I've been seeing alot of guys recommending using a motor setup from Porsche? what do you think?

[Airmergency818R]

I have a tricked out garage with all the tools along with lift, welder, etc. kinda overkill if you ask me but love this hobby. Factory five just sent me a extra body kit due to all the scratches and defects on the panels that arrived today. They even let me keep the defected body kit (awesome customer service), anyone else have this problem? I've also seen some talk for rear end kits allowing you to go much wider on rims and tires.. anyone heard of this? 2014-11-17 19.20.00.jpg2014-11-16 20.56.07.jpg2014-11-16 09.20.44.jpg