When I built an FFR roadster I learned on the forum to trash the set screws. They are not needed to keep the height and they put dings on the sleeve threads that make turning the rings difficult.
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When I built an FFR roadster I learned on the forum to trash the set screws. They are not needed to keep the height and they put dings on the sleeve threads that make turning the rings difficult.
818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).
Joe,
Considered it. Increasingly considered it with that one corner. I really don't think our HF spring compressors would have done it with these small diameter springs. We needed it done now, not a few days later, or a few days after that, depending on which potential replacement set might have worked. We haven't tried, but I also try not to use those except where necessary.
Pete,
Interesting. No slipping down the road?
Seems like they should be inclined to vibrate out of position.
-Andrew
Building 818S/R #297 with Tamra
08 Mazdaspeed3 | '12 F800R | '97 Miata
Double header autocross this weekend! Heading to NNJR tomorrow and NER Sunday assuming the car holds together. We are slightly worried about tire rub with our lower ride heights. Pretty much the entire garage worth of tools is shoved into the van just in case.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
Good luck!
Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
818 SRX - #91
Arrived 01/02/2014
First Start 10/31/2016
First Drive 05/22/2017
Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818
Fun day at NNJR! Bug didn't break AND managed 8th overall raw (let's not talk about pax lol). Lots of setup work left... The front doesn't work in sweepers and the rear doesn't work in transitions but we've got straight line acceleration down pat! Developing this car is going to be really fun.
Video:
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
What a beautiful day!!
Frank
818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
Build Completed Winter 2021
Tamra,
I loved at the end of you video when you pated the steering wheel. (good pony, good pony)
Keep pounding on the car to find any issues. We will do the same.
Bob
818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread
Thanks guys. I'll have a full report after the weekend. Andrew is racing the car again today at NER.. May make a few tweaks this morning if we have time (no time last night due to a family dinner). I'll be in the CSP Miata today.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
Successful 2nd day with Bug!
Andrew drove solo today. In the morning he concentrated on learning the handling and putting down a good time. The afternoon he started pushing the car to find its limits and test reliability. He started actually launching the car as well - might as well figure out how weak the axles are now to start strengthening everything. Nothing broke today and the data logs were excellent. He found the 2nd rev limiter (fuel cut) past the timing pull, which comes in at close to 7500 rpm and 71MPH in 2nd gear. He hit it every run in a fast slalom, but the car stuck it pretty well.
Here's a fun video of Andrew launching the car with two step, set at 4k, which spun the tires up easily (although it was only 60 out today and he was single driving, so they weren't hot at every start). To help reduce the drivetrain shock, he would pull the e-brake and preload the drive train by slipping the clutch slightly (takes out the backlash), and then put the e-brake down before launching.
Also, we are having some problems with our springs settling lower and lower. Despite starting at equal ride heights, after running a counter clockwise course yesterday, the passenger front corner is now a full 1/4" lower than the driver front, creating some mild rub issues. Also, our total ride height shrunk nearly an additional 1/2" after racing this weekend. Our car is shrinking! Is anyone else having this problem? We are considering switching springs at all four corners and going with Hypercoils. If we had paid to have our car corner balanced, we would be out $500 due to the springs. This is getting frustrating! Plus, when we tried to raise the ride height this morning, we found the collars frozen again despite only having the tiniest bit of pre-load. We'll have to put them in the vise again. Time to get new sleeves and try two collars rather than the set screw.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
Here's a video of Andrew driving the course. As you can see, the car is still a bit of a handful and requires fast hands in some places. This should improve more with additional set up work. The hard limiter section (bep bep bep) was 71 MPH in 2nd gear at just under 7500rpm. We were surprised he made it there, since we have timing pulled starting at 6900 rpm, and the power drop off is very noticeable.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
We always roll the car back & forth a few feet before measuring ride height. The suspension doesn't bind much at all.
In this case, the car was autocrossed Sat & Sunday, jacking it up to put different front tires on for trailering each time, and even Sunday it got shorter between the morning & end of day.
-Andrew
Building 818S/R #297 with Tamra
08 Mazdaspeed3 | '12 F800R | '97 Miata
You gotta drive the car with two people to load each spring correctly is what I found out.
818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207
Those are no-name springs, aren't they? The ones that came with mine are. I've been satisfied with my Eibach and H&S springs.
Metalmaker: You don't compete in autocross with two people in the car so that's not how you would want to set it up or corner-balance it. I think racing in Auto-X is their main focus for the car.
Last edited by Scargo; 10-12-2015 at 09:22 AM. Reason: additional comment
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
They are no name springs as far as we can tell.
Good springs don't settle. I think we will be ordering some Hypercoils tonight.
In our post in the suspension forum someone said that they measured the FFR springs once and had a 70lb difference in rate in two 350 lb springs!! That's not good at all.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
Springs are ordered. This coming weekend we will be testing Hypercoils on all 4 corners, sticking with the same 500lb fronts (although by the sounds of it, who knows what the real rate was of the no-name springs), and going from 300lb rears to 450lbs. We are using all of the shock travel and hitting the bump stops in the rear, causing handling issues in transitions.
In the front, we are using about 2" of travel, of 3.5" available.
You can see the dirt line more clearly in this photo, indicating max travel used:
Passenger side tire rub (low side due to poor quality springs):
Also, upon post race inspection, we noticed that our upper ball joint boots are getting torn badly. The other side of this one is also torn. Is anyone else experiencing this? Any solutions?
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
I found my boots torn before i even had the wheels installed. I packed a bit more grease in them and left them as is for now. Interested to see what others have done.
True, I was just stating what I did and it seemed to work.
Also , guys what's your ride height. I am right at 4.5 now, it only takes a single cruise/ shakedown to settle the springs, I have had the same issue with many good name coilovers. They all seem to settle a bit. Maybe you just had them set to low and it just took some runs to work them down. The car is lite so rolling it around doesn't settle the springs, you have to drive it, stop and go, turn hard etc.
818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207
Silly question. ...been over a year...but I seem to recall the rates were supposed to be installed with 500's in the back? 350's up front with sway bar.....again been a bit....if you are not running a bar then obviously the 500's up front make sense....but the 300's are not for rear with R shocks...I did the same thing on mine ... things got much better with the 500's in the back!
Last edited by Erik W. Treves; 10-12-2015 at 10:39 PM.
FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP
FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ
FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ
FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's
FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"
US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)
Taking the measuring tape out of the picture, we autocrossed the car on Saturday. At the end of the day, we rolled the passenger tire up on a board, which allowed us to get the jack under the car. On Sunday, the car was autocrossed again. At the end of the day, same process, we rolled the passenger tire up on a board. However, this time, we could no longer get a jack under the car. Both times were on a flat surface. The car continued shrinking well beyond many hard stops and turns.
Yep, the 500's are up front, no sway bar yet. The FFR recommended setup is for track use which is not usually in line with autocross setup. We have a long road of spring experiments ahead of us. This weekend it will be 500f/450R.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
I'd order 400 front and put the 500's in the rear
Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos
Does that recomm. go for a mostly street car (occasional track car) set up also?
If one were to buy better quality springs for street/HPDE use (no autoX), what rates would be suggested front and rear, and would those rates still work with the FFR provided yellow shocks?
I autox mine with front splitter and rear spoiler and had 500's in the rear and 350's up front...I tried the other way around and it was a mess...at least for me....
FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP
FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ
FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ
FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's
FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"
US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)
Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos
Per my understanding, the Koni Yellows are great for street spring rates (unless the ones designed for the 818 are different for some reason). As you go up in spring rate, you want to adjust the damping to match the spring rate, but since the yellows are only adjustable for rebound, then the bump damping becomes very poor. You could contact Koni to get them revalved for stiffer springs. Their price is very reasonable.
Wayne, we already ordered the 450/500 combo, but we may try switching which end the heavier spring is on at some point. In my experience, 50lbs can make a significant difference in handling.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
Thanks Tamra, that was exactly my concern. I've upgraded springs on another car many years back, without upgrading the shocks and had poor results. I didn't know if the rates Wayne suggested were far enough off from the FFR springs to require different shocks but sounds like it would.
Koni is usually quick to respond. I would recommend you email them and ask.
Last edited by Tamra; 10-13-2015 at 04:05 PM.
Tamra
Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
First autocross 3/29/15
1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!
Thanks for the tip! I will give it a shot.
If I remember correctly, Yellows are only good to 500Lbs, after that, they overheat quite quickly.
awesome guys keep it up! That thing must be a monster
500 rear for street? Aren't we with... 275 from FFR?
Frank
818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
Build Completed Winter 2021
Tamara's car will have some aero downforce at autocross speed but most of the grip will be mechanical. For autocross, the higher spring rates will help with body roll and allow the car to transition right to left faster. Suspension frequency is a better indicator of actual rate than the actual springs.
Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos
I agree with Wayne, the left to right transitions require stiffer spring to reduce the recovery time of the chassis changing directions. You will probably end up much stiffer than you thought you would. That has been my autox experience, the better it is for autox the worst it is on the street.
Last edited by D Clary; 10-13-2015 at 07:41 PM. Reason: missspeell
I've heard this before but how do you do real world measuring and evaluating of this? I have seen really sophisticated McLaren stuff but it seemed out of reach, price-wise. I'm dreaming I can find a way to rent sensors if there is such a thing and if it seems worthwhile. As it is, I'm just doing the amateurish, old guy thing. How good does it need to be or what am I leaving on the table, that I can even feel? That's where I'm at with the STi. I have gas, double-action racing shocks and 600/800 pound springs on a 3000 pound car and I only have my buttfeelerometer to go by and I am halfway lost with how to make adjustments. I'm not going to make wholesale changes just because I'm going to a smoother/rougher course. I need an average roadcourse setup.
I used to do SCCA Solo and autocross and those parking lots sure can vary in smoothness, cleanliness and grip.
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
I think your butt is really all you have, that and a stopwatch. Stiffen the springs and play with the shocks. In reality you need double adjusting shocks to adjust compression and rebound. Road course and auto x are very different. the transitions come at a much slower pace and the car has plenty of time to recover, so it can be a little softer. I'm just an old guy too so it doesn't take as much to stroke my ego and get an adrenaline rush. On the other hand winning is very nice.
For under $2k, you can get a race-tech DL1 sport with 8 analog inputs, and 4x linear potentiometers, then record data fast enough to see the shocks oscillate after a single (square-edged-ish) bump.
You'd be on your own to machine/fabricate something to attach the shock pots to the top & bottom of the coilover.
-Andrew
Building 818S/R #297 with Tamra
08 Mazdaspeed3 | '12 F800R | '97 Miata
Ok I get it, the 500 rears are for autoXing, but not for say a DD that never autoXes. Then yeah Wayne's explanation makes a lot of sense. I thought the 500 were for a street car not racing.
Frank
818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
Build Completed Winter 2021