Sniper Grounding

[AA-ron]

I'm looking for some advice about grounding my Sniper. I finished my build last summer and I'm really struggling with surging and inconsistent idle and a bit of bumpy performance below 1500 rpm.
I have a Ford Racing crate motor and I've gone through all the tuning exercises I know of to tune it out. I just spent some time on the phone with Holley and they are now fairly certain that I've got a grounding issue with my Sniper.
My battery is in the trunk and I ran a separate 10 gauge ground and power cable to the front specifically for the Sniper. However according to Holley, they said that I will likely need to run a seperate battery ground cable (2 gauge--same size as the primary power cable) to the front and ground to the engine grounding point-- basically, not relying on the chassis as the primary ground. Additionally they are recommending I ground the Sniper throttle body frame directly to the engine grounding point. Lastly, they suggest moving my coil off the top of the engine to the firewall (coil sits near the sniper on the sbf 302).
My question is this: as my setup is a fairly common one (Ford Racing 302 crate w/sniper), have any of you experienced the same type of issues and did you end up going to such extremes from a grounding standpoint to fix the problem? Lastly, moving the coil feels like a real pain!!
The idle problems have progressively gotten worse over the past 1000 miles or so (total of about 3500k on the car) and Holley said they see this often where it's good in the beginning and then gets worse.
Just looking for some thoughts here.
Thanks

[weendoggy]

Sniper is well known for RFI interference. That being said, try to keep as many or all of the Sniper wiring away from coil, alternator, etc. Gounding is good, but that may be over excessive. You have one dedicated Sniper to the battery, run another 2ga or 4ga from the battery to frame as well as one from engine to frame (if that hasn't been done yet). Have you tried running the Sniper in open loop at idle? That will tell you if it's too rich/lean. Also, what does your learn table look like? Is the Sniper controlling spark? What distributor? There are lots of things to look at.

[Norm B]

In addition to moving the coil and coil driver I had to shield the distributor to get the Sniper to work properly.

[CraigS]

I agree that running a new ground same size as a battery cable is crazy. But O would recommend that adding grounds as weendoggy says is a good idea. Also double check all your existing grounds. Start at the neg battery terminal and clean the inside of the terminal as well as the battery post. Where your battery - cable attaches to the frame remove it and clean the end. Wire brush the frame spot so there is nothing but bare metal for the cable to contact. After you bolt it back up w/ a new bolt slather some bearing grease all over or get a spray bottle of battery terminal protector. Any and all additional grounds need the same care. I am not specifically familiar w/ the Sniper but 25 yrs as a Lexus tech I know that a lot of efi sensors run on 5V not on 12V as you might expect. And 5V has no extra power to burn through the smallest bit of corrosion. Something like an air flow meter may output 0V as no flow and 5V as full flow. If there is a bit of resistance in the wiring and it loses .3V then the air flow signal to the ecu is going to be lower than the actual flow across the entire range.

[Norm B]

Disclaimer: My battery is front mounted in my rendition of the Breeze battery box.
My Sniper is wired directly to the battery for both the positive and negative connection. I used the same gauge of wire as the Sniper harness has. Didn’t see the point of running a very heavy gauge wire to connect to a lighter wire in the harness. The positive feed is energized through a relay to isolate it from the ignition switch and any electrical noise associated with it.
The coil is on the driver’s side F panel. This avoids running the coil wires anywhere near the Sniper. The Sniper ECU is poorly shielded and located on the front of the unit, very close to the Ford front mount distributor. I had to shield the distributor to prevent the unit from shutting down and rebooting while I was driving. This is with a Holley hyperspark distributor. A little frustrating when supposedly compatible components from the same company don’t work well together!
That said, once I got everything moved and shielded, the car runs flawlessly.

Hope this helps!
Norm

[Blitzboy54]

Sounds more like the IAC than a bad ground

[i.e.427]

Your "Cobra" air Cleaner housing is over-hanging the distributor cap and causing RFI interference with the ECU which is located inside the throttle body. Either change out the oval air cleaner assembly or find a way to shield the bottom of the air cleaner base. Talk to Mark & Brendan Dougherty. Mark was the first person I know to find the problem and fabricate a solution. We did the same thing when installing our first Sniper and FiTech EFI systems. #10 wires (same size as Holley includes) is enough to run to the back and connect directly to the battery.

Also, Holley instructions are clear: "Power and grounds must be run directly to the battery". If you failed to run a dedicated ground to the battery, just start running one now.

Frank

[john42]

Your "Cobra" air Cleaner housing is over-hanging the distributor cap and causing RFI interference with the ECU which is located inside the throttle body. Either change out the oval air cleaner assembly or find a way to shield the bottom of the air cleaner base. Talk to Mark & Brendan Dougherty. Mark was the first person I know to find the problem and fabricate a solution. We did the same thing when installing our first Sniper and FiTech EFI systems. #10 wires (same size as Holley includes) is enough to run to the back and connect directly to the battery.

Also, Holley instructions are clear: "Power and grounds must be run directly to the battery". If you failed to run a dedicated ground to the battery, just start running one now.

Frank

Mark and Brendan did mine and had me layer the bottom of the oval air cleaner with copper foil tape. Basically make a faraday cage out of it. I'm not 100% convinced my issues have stopped either. I am still having return to idle issue. I have a small round air cleaner that I'm about to swap in and see if my issues go away. Then at least I know.

[Blitzboy54]

I have been struggling with this for years now. The closest I came to solving it was a firmware update. I went 1300 miles without an issue than it came back. I currently have the idle spark off (per their recommendation) and have not had it happen since but I only drove it a little bit. Weather hasn't been very good.

[AA-ron]

Thanks for all the advice! It's nice to know others have struggled with this.
One thing I left out is that when I do a "warm start", in other words, after the car has been driven and then allowed to sit for 30 minutes or so, the idle surges BADLY and almost stalls. If I feather the gas pedal I can smooth it out, but it will do this until I drive it or let it run for about 30 seconds.

Here's what I've done so far since my post yesterday.
I grounded the Sniper throttle body directly to the engine grounding point on the chassis (per Holley's request).
I removed all the ground connections and cleaned reinstalled them.
Verified that the power and ground runs back to the trunk mounted battery are tightly connected at both ends (and cleaned mounting points).
I have NOT moved the coil yet.

After doing this, I've found that the idle is a bit smoother and there seems to be less surging. I haven't been able to drive it as it's been raining-- which is all it ever seems to do here in Maine these past few years.

But I've noticed something else and I'm wondering if this might be part of the problem. When my car is at idle i'm only seeing 12.7 volts, which causes the voltage alert on the sniper screen to highlight yellow. As soon as I touch the gas pedal to raise the RPM just a bit, the voltage jumps to mid 13's--low 14's. I have my idle set at 850.
Could low voltage at idle be part of my problem?

[Norm B]

Don’t think 12.7 volts will cause a problem. We might be blaming the Sniper for another issue. Have you thoroughly checked for a vacuum or exhaust leak. What does the IAC reading do while the engine is surging?
You may also have a bad or sticky IAC.

[burchfieldb]

I had similar issues with my MSD Atomic 2. If I place a piece of plastic for the air cleaner bottom and take out the screw, there are no issues. The long metal screw sticking out of the throttle body also acts as an antenna, so if you can thread a small stud into the throttle body, then thread a plastic rod onto that, and then use a short screw to thread through the cap into the rod, that should help. You could do the screw mod and turn your air cleaner 90 degress to try to narrow it down. If you can recreate it at idle, remove the air cleaner and screw, and see if it stops. I was able to do that on mine to pin point the problem. I spent over an hour on tech support to figure it out, grounding distributor, foil hat over the distributor, and none of those helped. Ended up being the air cleaner. I am likley going to mold an offset drop base oval air cleaner bottom out of urethane plastic to solve this issue and to get more hood clearance. If there is enough interest, I could see about creating a kit to sell.

[zanman]

Norm - how did you shield your distributor? I still have a similar situation where my efi, and subsequently the entire engine just 100% shuts off at a specific place I drive it through on my driveway. It’s very strange. Spoke to Forte this week and he suggested I check my grounds. But I think trying the shielding would be another step in troubleshooting here.

Mike suggested I go from battery ground terminal to engine block and then from engine block to chassis ground bolt. I am currently setup in reverse of this right now. I think I’m also gonna just run my sniper ground directly to battery ground terminal. I currently have it on the chassis ground bolt. Hoping that also helps.

[Norm B]

Try wrapping the distributor with aluminum foil to se if that helps. If it does then make a permanent shield out of light aluminum sheeting. I covered that with a Cobra distributor cover I got off eBay.

Norm

[Alan_C]

I'm looking for some advice about grounding my Sniper. I finished my build last summer and I'm really struggling with surging and inconsistent idle and a bit of bumpy performance below 1500 rpm.
I have a Ford Racing crate motor and I've gone through all the tuning exercises I know of to tune it out. I just spent some time on the phone with Holley and they are now fairly certain that I've got a grounding issue with my Sniper.
My battery is in the trunk and I ran a separate 10 gauge ground and power cable to the front specifically for the Sniper. However according to Holley, they said that I will likely need to run a seperate battery ground cable (2 gauge--same size as the primary power cable) to the front and ground to the engine grounding point-- basically, not relying on the chassis as the primary ground. Additionally they are recommending I ground the Sniper throttle body frame directly to the engine grounding point. Lastly, they suggest moving my coil off the top of the engine to the firewall (coil sits near the sniper on the sbf 302).
My question is this: as my setup is a fairly common one (Ford Racing 302 crate w/sniper), have any of you experienced the same type of issues and did you end up going to such extremes from a grounding standpoint to fix the problem? Lastly, moving the coil feels like a real pain!!
The idle problems have progressively gotten worse over the past 1000 miles or so (total of about 3500k on the car) and Holley said they see this often where it's good in the beginning and then gets worse.
Just looking for some thoughts here.
Thanks

As much as you may not want to make the changes suggested, resistance is futile. Just do it and bury the gremlins for once and for all. There is a Sniper forum, join, read and you will see that you are not alone as Holley tech support has already told you.
Using the frame as a ground is not the problem, it is the connections from the battery to and from the engine to the frame that are the issues. I am a retired electrical engineer with 2 degree in EE and there is no shortcut to good grounding.
First, the cable from the battery to the frame must be the same size or larger than the positive battery cable. The same goes for the cable from the frame to the engine block. The return path is MORE important that the positive side. Make these 2 changes first and see what happens. It goes without saying that the connection points on the frame must be clean, without paint and rust free. Running a number of smaller ground wires results in what are termed ground loops. Ground loops are simply the return currents searching for the best way back to the battery negative post. This is why you must have a SINGLE point ground to your frame at both ends of the ground path. Do anything else and success is much less likely.
With your ground path fixed, if you are still having issues, as said in other posts, you have a radio frequency interference issue. One way to deal with an RFI issue is to shield all the wiring going into/out of the ECU. Use some good wire braid and sleeve those wires. Ground at only one end as that is all that is needed. Grounding the shield at both ends is problematic as you can, again, introduce a ground loop with signals (NOISE) now flowing through the shield. If this is not enough, then the RFI source is too close to the ECU and the shield cannot reject a sufficient amount of the noise. As Holley suggested, you will then need to increase the distance from the source, as in the coil, to the ECU. You then work through all the possible sources one by one until you have a sufficient solution as it is impossible to eliminate all the noise.
Good luck, but do not resist making changes because they are a pain, as your problems, to some degree, will continue until you do. I worked Satellite programs for Boeing in their test and engineering department. It was our job to test all the satellite systems to guarantee all was working before launch. You don't get those failed satellites back to fix'em once launched, so we had to get it right before they left the factory. As part of my test equipment design efforts, I made cables for our test systems and they had to be flight "like" as in working exactly as the cabling would perform inside the satellite. I learned a lot about grounding and the single ended ground shield was probably the most significant. We used a lot of shielded twisted pair wire. Both the shield and the twisting of the wire pair would both contribute to noise rejection. So the best solution for a sensitive wire bundle is to twist the individual wire pairs, signal and return, and then put a shield around the entire bundle. Nothing else works as well, period, other than distance, which is not an option within the satellite and at times under the hood.

[Nigel Allen]

X2 on Alan C's recommendations. Also consider some ferrite rings around cables if RFI is an issue.

[burchfieldb]

As much as you may not want to make the changes suggested, resistance is futile. Just do it and bury the gremlins for once and for all. There is a Sniper forum, join, read and you will see that you are not alone as Holley tech support has already told you.
Using the frame as a ground is not the problem, it is the connections from the battery to and from the engine to the frame that are the issues. I am a retired electrical engineer with 2 degree in EE and there is no short cut to good grounding.
First, the cable from the battery to the frame must be the same size or larger than the positive battery cable. The same goes for the cable from the frame to the engine block. The return path is MORE important that the positive side. Make these 2 changes first and see what happens. It goes without saying that the connection points on the frame must be clean, without paint and rust free. Running a number of smaller ground wires results in what are termed ground loops. Ground loops are simply the return currents searching for the best way back to the battery negative post. This is why you must have a SINGLE point ground to your frame at both ends of the ground path. Do anything else and success is much less likely.
With your ground path fixed, if you are still having issues, as said in other posts, you have a radio frequency interference issue. One way to deal with an RFI issue is to shield all the wiring going into/out of the ECU. Use some good wire braid and sleeve those wires. Ground at only one end as that is all that is needed. Grounding the shield at both ends is problematic as you can, again, introduce a ground loop with signals (NOISE) now flowing through the shield. If this is not enough, then the RFI source is too close to the ECU and the shield cannot reject a sufficient amount of the noise. As Holley suggested, you will then need to increase the distance from the source, as in the coil, to the ECU. You then work through all the possible sources one by one until you have a sufficient solution as it is impossible to eliminate all the noise.
Good luck, but do not resist making changes because they are a pain, as your problems, to some degree, will continue until you do. I worked Satellite programs for Boeing in their test and engineering department. It was our job to test all the satellite systems to guarantee all was working before launch. You don't get those failed satellites back to fix'em once launched, so we had to get it right before they left the factory. As part of my test equipment design efforts, I made cables for our test systems and they had to be flight "like" as in working exactly as the cabling would perform inside the satellite. I learned a lot about grounding and the single ended ground shield was probably the most significant. We used a lot of shielded twisted pair wire. Both the shield and the twisting of the wire pair would both contribute to noise rejection. So the best solution for a sensitive wire bundle is to twist the individual wire pairs, signal and return, and then put a shield around the entire bundle. Nothing else works as well, period, other than distance, which is not an option within the satellite and at times under the hood.

What are your thoughts on using this stuff for shielding?
https://www.wirecare.com/category/br...ack-10-ft-cuts

Brent

[john42]

Try wrapping the distributor with aluminum foil to se if that helps. If it does then make a permanent shield out of light aluminum sheeting. I covered that with a Cobra distributor cover I got off eBay.

Norm

I used Copper foil tape on the inside of my water shroud for the distributor and also covering the bottom on the air cleaner.

Nice Alan_C !! I see we both are doing similar things. You likely have some of the stuff my group makes at MIT/LL.

[AA-ron]

I can't thank you all enough for the advice. I've spent a good part of the weekend working on each of these possible solutions and I'm still not seeing any difference in performance (badly surging idle after engine is warm and erratic performance below 1500 RPM).
Here's what I've done so far:
Ran a 2 gauge ground cable from the trunk mounted battery to the engine grounding point on the chassis.
Cleaned all ground connections.
Grounded the Sniper throttle body directly to the same engine grounding point on the chassis (this is in addition to Sniper power and ground leads going directly to the battery).
Compared performance with and without the "Cobra" air cleaner (hangs over distributor) and see no difference.
Opened up my wire looms and temporarily and systematically separated wires relating to the Sniper, coil, etc... and no difference in performance.
Exhaustive experimentation with the IAC-- set it lower to center around 3% and gradually brought it up to the 7 to 10% recommended and no difference.
Fuel pressure is measured and is perfect at 58 psi.

Next step is to move the coil-- ordered an E-core style coil and will install it on the "F" panel.
I picked up some dielectric grease and will put a dab on each spark plug connection.
I'll fab a copper or aluminum shroud to cover the distributor (I used to work in the electronics industry and we had better results from copper).
I've posted data logs on the Holley forum to see if EM interference seems likely. For the life of me and I can't seem to decipher and understand these logs.
I posted them here as well ("0010" is surging idle and "0011" is after idle settled). After the idle settles (takes about 20 seconds) if I bump the throttle it goes back to surging.

Lastly, I'd like to give Alan_C a shout out and thank him for reminding me that this is a process and for his detailed post.

[Nigel Allen]

I'm not expert on any of the old school stuff, as I run a coyote. As it is affected by heat, could it potentially a problem that is mechanical. I.E.
- Do you have a vacuum assisted brake booster?
- could you have a vacuum leak in the intake? Re torque manifold.
- valve / valve train issue?
- bad plug leads?
Check timing stability Maybe distributor advance issue.

Hope you track it down soon.

Cheers,
Nige

[Norm B]

Here are pictures of my distributor shield and cosmetic cover. Aluminum seems to be working fine for me and was easy to get. The picture of the shield is of its interior. I covered the outside with black hockey tape ( being Canadian it seemed appropriate ) to camouflage it until the cover showed up. I ran a ground wire from the shield to the frame. You electrical guys are probably laughing at me but, it works.🤪

HTH

Norm

[Norm B]

AA-ron, is the IAC reading steady while the engine is surging? If it is, then I would look very carefully for a vacuum leak. Engine speed cannot change without a change in airflow or ignition timing.

[AA-ron]

Hockey tape! Love it. Here in Maine it would grey duct tape.
Quick question. I think I see in your picture that you ran the coil wire along top of valve cover. I was concerned about that because of its proximity to the sniper. It would certainly make my wire routing easier if I could do that. My alternative is to run the wire directly from the F panel (where I'm thinking of putting my coil) to the distributor. I prefer your method, but what are your thoughts?
Thanks!!

[Norm B]

The coil wire runs directly to the F panel. The loom you see running down the valley is a shield cover for the wires for oil pressure, coolant temp (x2), and distributor.

[Blitzboy54]

To Norms point I would seriously look at my IAC behavior before going too deep down the grounding or RF rabbit hole.

[AA-ron]

AA-ron, is the IAC reading steady while the engine is surging? If it is, then I would look very carefully for a vacuum leak. Engine speed cannot change without a change in airflow or ignition timing.

According to my data log, the IAC is all over the place, radical jumps up and down corresponding with the surges.
I hate show my newbie stripes here, but where would I look for a vacuum leak?

[FF33rod]

There are some very knowledgeable people on the Sniper forums that are great at giving advice once you post config and log files if you haven't tried that (and I definitely would do that before going crazy with wiring and grounding which seems to be the go to advice people give for the Sniper, sometimes justified but not always)

[john42]

Another issue I had was with my spark plugs. I originally was going carb instead of EFI and didn't have resister type plugs. It was causing all sorta of idle surge and havoc. Pug some NGK-7373 in and it helped a ton.

[Kbl7td]

I’m not going to go through all the posts but I assume you’ve taken off the covers to the injectors, and check the plugs? There was a known issues with those plugs coming loose.

Start at 12:36 mark

https://youtu.be/GQlVPJfN8gw?si=26yjrTLiIi52shYf

[Alan_C]

You are going though the troubleshooting in a very orderly and methodical way. Sorry it has not resolved the issue, but sounds like you have a very good ground system now. Unfortunately we sometimes make our cars better but do not solve the issue at hand. Patience is tough at times, the story about a guy trouble shooting a Coyote crate engine for months and months comes to mind. In his case, bad injectors straight from Ford. So consider just because something is new, does not mean it works. The possibility that the problem could be a vacuum leak is interesting. You can spray something volatile like starter fluid around the most obvious places where leaks occur and watch for RPM changes and the idle settling down.
It all takes time and please post the source of the issue when done. I have often wished we would have a database of problems and solutions for others to reference shortcutting their troubleshooting processes.

[Alan_C]

I picked up some dielectric grease and will put a dab on each spark plug connection.

I am not sure what you intended to cure with the dielectric grease? A dielectric is a non-conductor so you would be in effect insulating the connection anywhere you do not have direct contact.
I would suggest that you should be trying to improve the electrical contact, not try to reduce it. If anything, I would clean all the spark plug and wire contact points as best you can and move on.

[AA-ron]

I am not sure what you intended to cure with the dielectric grease? A dielectric is a non-conductor so you would be in effect insulating the connection anywhere you do not have direct contact.
I would suggest that you should be trying to improve the electrical contact, not try to reduce it. If anything, I would clean all the spark plug and wire contact points as best you can and move on.

I was told by Holley and another engine builder to put dielectric grease on the spark plug boots to help reduce RF escaping at the connection. And yes, I'd never put it on the actual electrical connection.

[AA-ron]

There are some very knowledgeable people on the Sniper forums that are great at giving advice once you post config and log files if you haven't tried that (and I definitely would do that before going crazy with wiring and grounding which seems to be the go to advice people give for the Sniper, sometimes justified but not always)

I was able to get Holley to look at my datalogs yesterday and they feel its RF as it's primarily showing up on my IAC signal in the log-- which apparently one of the places RF is first noticed. And yes, the Holley forum has been a great resource!

[Nigel Allen]

Try some clip on ferrite RFI suppressors.

https://palomar-engineers.com/antenn...okes-do-i-need

[Railroad]

Not the experienced tuner here, but surprised the wide band O2 sensor has not been, replaced, tested, removed, relocated, etc.

[bobl]

Looking at your data log of the surging idle it looks like the 02 sensor has failed. It shows really lean and then closed loop throws a ton of fuel at it and it goes rich, and starts a cycle. The fuel pressure fluctuating wildly could cause this but not too likely. You could try taking it out of closed loop and see if that helps it, but the base fuel table my have been corrupted so it won't work either. Oddly I don't see any rpm in the data logs, but I'm guessing that just has to do with how the files were created. Maybe RFI is causing the 02 sensor to read incorrectly? I've never seen it happen but I guess anything is possible. If you have a good backup global file you could load it and turn off closed loop so it doesn't get corrupted to see if that corrects it. My money is on a failing 02 sensor. If you could post a copy of your global file I'd be glad to take a look at it.

Bob

[ggunter]

While I love the concept of a bolt on throttle body fuel injection unit, which is the reason I put one on my car, I thought it was going to be great. The You Tube videos made it look so easy. Heck, self-learning, that's cool. It was for about 1200 miles, then the gremlins moved in, and the oxygen sensor failed, first tow bill, not a biggy. New sensor and we were up and running. Then, asking the car to idle correctly was too much to ask. Silly me. Whenever it felt like it, it would idle up to around 2000 rpm and sometimes comes back down, other times I had to put it in gear and let the clutch out to bring it down. Checked with Holley and did all their hocus pocus. To no avail. Then one day it all stopped.... After I bolted on a Holley 750 Double Pumper. My point being, you paid good money for a so-called bolt on product that is supposed to give good drivability, starting and performance. You shouldn't have to go on forums and take well intentioned advice to make the unit operate as it should out of the box. Next, they will have you wrapping your head in a tinfoil cone with a ground strap because your head is giving off EMF. I say most of this in jest and there are many who have had zero problems. I'm sure....I hope you get it straightened out. I personally think Holley needs a little more R&D on this one. Mine is sitting in a box if anyone wants it.

[Mike.Bray]

While I love the concept of a bolt on throttle body fuel injection unit, which is the reason I put one on my car, I thought it was going to be great. The You Tube videos made it look so easy. Heck, self-learning, that's cool. It was for about 1200 miles, then the gremlins moved in, and the oxygen sensor failed, first tow bill, not a biggy. New sensor and we were up and running. Then, asking the car to idle correctly was too much to ask. Silly me. Whenever it felt like it, it would idle up to around 2000 rpm and sometimes comes back down, other times I had to put it in gear and let the clutch out to bring it down. Checked with Holley and did all their hocus pocus. To no avail. Then one day it all stopped.... After I bolted on a Holley 750 Double Pumper. My point being, you paid good money for a so-called bolt on product that is supposed to give good drivability, starting and performance. You shouldn't have to go on forums and take well intentioned advice to make the unit operate as it should out of the box. Next, they will have you wrapping your head in a tinfoil cone with a ground strap because your head is giving off EMF. I say most of this in jest and there are many who have had zero problems. I'm sure....I hope you get it straightened out. I personally think Holley needs a little more R&D on this one. Mine is sitting in a box if anyone wants it.

There's nothing wrong with EFI, there's a reason you haven't been able to buy a new car without it for several decades. And I'd love any of you carb guys to help me get my leaf blower started EFI is far superior to a mechanical device invented in the 1800's in every way. The issue is you get what you pay for. A $1k Sniper is never going to perform like a $3-4K port injected system. From what I understand the Sniper 2 has a lot of improvements over the original version but it's still a low cost rudimentary system with limited capabilities. To me the Sniper, like the Fast EZ systems give EFI a bad name.

[rich grsc]

Mike, anyone buying a Fast EZ is going to wish they had your leaf blower carb. Pure cr-p.

[bobl]

The main problem with FAST EZ is that there is no way to interface with a computer so you can't tune it beyond what's preset. The Sniper is light years better simply because you have access with a laptop. A tuner can fix most any problem. I've tuned several Snipers remotely by them sending me data logs and the config files, just like the higher end systems.

Bob