How much power do you plan to make?

[metalmaker12]

from my travels a stock sti will read 215-235whp on a mustang dyno and 245-255whp on a dyno jet. I been told the mustang dyno is calibrated differently, but can be corrected to read the same, but is not considered a proper hp measurement by the company.I have gotten many cars tuned on both setups and the Mustang dynos always read lower if there set up the way they are supposed to.

PS: Thorne,I might have been a little off before on the differences, but it is 20-30whp on my cars has been the average

[bugeye_fever]

I don't have a specific power goal, but for me its about the power band more than the peak number. I'd like to do a built high compression sti motor on e85 with a roterex supercharger running a lower amount of boost, around 10 psi. Most Turbo ej's I see, my own included, have a fat midrange which is great when traction isn't a concern. But for the 818 I'd like something with a smoother powerband, plus it would be unique.

For the record, if this thread turns into a dyno argument, I will lose all hope for humanity.

[Mechie3]

It's called ramping your boost in. Your dyno happened by spiking boost to 20+psi and letting it taper off. Just don't tune it that way. I have experiance tuning cars for race car drives and am able to make a car perform in a manner that best suite the platform.

For AWD it wasn't a problem. Going to 21psi then down to 18 made the HP curve flat even if torque did spike. If I turn down the boost, I get less power below 3500 rpms. For autocross/AWD it was an ideal setup. Peak torque at 3100 rpms and constant power from 3200 rpms to 5000rpms. It just might not be so great for lightweight RWD.

[StatGSR]

RA gears are cheaper then ppg but allot, I ran them for years with out a issue making 300 -370 awhp and drag racing. So I think with the light weight it will work..

people give RA gears too much credit, they are no better strength wise than a 04+ 5spd. ppg and ra gears are not in the same category. that said, i still don't expect many people to "need" ppgs in an 818 and expect that most 5spds will do just fine anyway.

also on the whole dyno debate, several brands or types of dynos calculate/measure torque differently. so the results are going to be different. i'm pretty sure the old 6' drum dynojets purely measured the acceleration of the drum to back calculate the torque applied to it. there are plenty of good dyno reads out there if you want to take the time and learn about them.

Also, you can "correct" a dyno to give you any sort or results you want, but that doesn't make the numbers right... one should always take dyno whp numbers with a grain of salt.

[ncr416]

I'm gonna be going for the 450-500 whp mark.

[shinn497]

Stats how do you know of the RA gears' strength? Materials? Use? Tests?

[305mouse]

If I remember when the they upgraded the gears for the 04 model, they were made the same thickness as the RA gears.

[B33fy]

I've been accumulating parts for an engine build, looking for 350bhp so as not to overstretch the gearbox, got a version 8 ej20 bottom end, version 4 sti heads, and a VF48 turbo, throwing in some forged internals including omega pistons so I can wiring its neck on track days. Mind you we can pick up gearboxes very cheap $100-$200.

[Evan78]

Mind you we can pick up gearboxes very cheap $100-$200.

Working or not working? What gearbox are you referring to? These are UK prices? In California, a working box is a whole lot more than $100-$200.

[Mechie3]

A working 06 5 speed cost me $1200 2 years ago. Busted ones sell for several hundred all day long.

[SkiRideDrive]

I also saw on Nasioc that Andrewtech charges a $600 core for transmissions. I'm assuming it doesn't matter what shape they are in.

[Mechie3]

He might be talking about old boxes too. US only had the WRX since 02, other areas have had it since 92.

[Evan78]

He might be talking about old boxes too. US only had the WRX since 02, other areas have had it since 92.

That's what I was thinking too. Sure would have been great if the WRX and STi were available in the U.S. during the 90's.

[B33fy]

Working or not working? What gearbox are you referring to? These are UK prices? In California, a working box is a whole lot more than $100-$200.

The 5 speed box mainly out of 92 to 2000 cars. It was carried over to the later cars as well, looking at the uk bay of e just now they are a few in the ball park of £120-£150 sterling in working condition. If you bid on them you can get some under £100 with a 99pence start. I have the same conversion in my v-storm as in the 818. Owners break perfectly good cars because they can't sell them and make more money that way. If you keep an eye out a running sti engine goes for anything from £400 upwards. a whole running car, non sti in good condition can be bought for £1000-£1200 Times are hard and they are expensive to run so they are not that desirable at the moment.

I wouldn't bother wth a RA box the gearing is too short and not good for cruising. The best gearing is a uk wrx which should see over 150mph PPG boxes tend to have updated 1-4th gears with a standard uk 5th gear for top end.

[B33fy]

Here's a couple worth a punt

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Imp...#ht_748wt_1270

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUBARU-IMP...#ht_500wt_1287

[Twinspool]

I wouldn't bother wth a RA box the gearing is too short and not good for cruising.

It's close ratio, could be brilliant with the right final drive ratio.

[Thorne]

I don't have a specific power goal, but for me its about the power band more than the peak number. I'd like to do a built high compression sti motor on e85 with a roterex supercharger running a lower amount of boost, around 10 psi. Most Turbo ej's I see, my own included, have a fat midrange which is great when traction isn't a concern. But for the 818 I'd like something with a smoother powerband, plus it would be unique.

For the record, if this thread turns into a dyno argument, I will lose all hope for humanity.

I promise you it won't, Thats why I have both dynos !!!! Speed density cars get tuned on the mustang non sd dj or if the client requests one or the other I'll do it .


I wanna help the 818 guys because I've been into subarus and tuning for a while.

[Thorne]

people give RA gears too much credit, they are no better strength wise than a 04+ 5spd. ppg and ra gears are not in the same category. that said, i still don't expect many people to "need" ppgs in an 818 and expect that most 5spds will do just fine anyway.

also on the whole dyno debate, several brands or types of dynos calculate/measure torque differently. so the results are going to be different. i'm pretty sure the old 6' drum dynojets purely measured the acceleration of the drum to back calculate the torque applied to it. there are plenty of good dyno reads out there if you want to take the time and learn about them.

Also, you can "correct" a dyno to give you any sort or results you want, but that doesn't make the numbers right... one should always take dyno whp numbers with a grain of salt.

the 04 5speed is weaker then a STI-RA set purchased from rallispec as they are micropolished and cryod. The dsm guys have been doing this for years and they seem to hold 33-40% more power done that way. Otherwise the teeth are the same width. now those of you with 02-03 boxes I still think they will break @ any descent power level.

dj 424xl cannot be corrected to cheat with out someone jacking with temps and what not. Mustang all you need to do is change the weight of the cal weight.....
I spent allot of time working with mustang to calibrate our Mustang to there specs including all POTs and proper spin downs. It's a tuning tool honestly..

[Thorne]

I've been accumulating parts for an engine build, looking for 350bhp so as not to overstretch the gearbox, got a version 8 ej20 bottom end, version 4 sti heads, and a VF48 turbo, throwing in some forged internals including omega pistons so I can wiring its neck on track days. Mind you we can pick up gearboxes very cheap $100-$200.

Where are you going to get a gearbox for 200$ also with your power goals your motor can stay completely stock.

[B33fy]

Where are you going to get a gearbox for 200$ also with your power goals your motor can stay completely stock.

The standard wrx internals are close to their limit at this power, as mentioned I want a bullet proof engine with a raised rev limit to 8000 revs, loads of gearboxes in the uk for that money.

[shinn497]

how do you intend on raising the limit to 8000 without the ej207 heads?

[Nuul]

New springs and retainers at least. I know it's not uncommon for a destroked 2.34 to run redline at 9500 but I don't know what the accompanied headwork is.

[Evan78]

how do you intend on raising the limit to 8000 without the ej207 heads?

he mentioned using v4 STi heads which I think had a factory redline of 8000 rpm.

[B33fy]

he mentioned using v4 STi heads which I think had a factory redline of 8000 rpm.

Must be an american thing talking in the third person "he" as its happened a couple of times now. B33fy or Mike is fine. Some early heads inluding the verson 4 sti heads have solid lifters with shim under buckets rather than hydraulic with shim over bucket so will rev higher without the risk of loosing a shim. (8250 limit) The sti camshafts are slghtly wilder and the RA wilder still if you an get hold of them. There iis a general view that the version 8 bottom end has the strongest crank with is nitrided from the factory the block is semi closed hence the choice. I choose the VF48 because it spools up reasonably quickly and despite coming from an 08 model year it is a single scroll turbo that bolts straight on with little hassle. Despite it originally being fitted to 2.5 engines it works well on the 2.0 ej20 engines Current outlay for heads, block and turbo is £910

[B33fy]

It's close ratio, could be brilliant with the right final drive ratio.

IMO you're just making work for yourself, as well as extra cost, ripping down a gearbox to sort the final drive when there are gearboxes available with the right gearing. Those with early type R's and RA's report the car pretty much flat out at 110mph!! With the lightness of the kit car the longer the better. SDR are even talking of uprating a box so 60mph is achievable in first which would improve the acceleration time due to one less gearchange

[Xusia]

Must be an american thing talking in the third person "he" as its happened a couple of times now. B33fy or Mike is fine.

Evan78 was "talking" to shinn497 (as evidenced by the quote), therefore you (B33fy) are a 3rd party, making use of the third person pronoun "he" appropriate. Had he (Evan78 - joke intended!) been talking to you, that wouldn't be the case.

[B33fy]

Evan78 was "talking" to shinn497 (as evidenced by the quote), therefore you (B33fy) are a 3rd party, making use of the third person pronoun "he" appropriate. Had he (Evan78 - joke intended!) been talking to you, that wouldn't be the case.

cheers for that Xusia, perhaps I should have been more specific.. in England using the word "he", rather than the persons name, especially when the third party is part of the discusson is considered somewhat disrespectful.. each to their own. anyhow back to the topic..

[Evan78]

That's what I figured you were getting at B33fy, and I think you're right. It's a weird thing, the internet moves so quick that if someone asks a question and you don't respond immediately, it feels like you're not present anymore and I refer to you as "he" as if you're not here. In addition to being more polite, it's more specific to use the name, and I always like to be as clear as possible by eliminating any chance of ambiguity. Using a proper name instead of a generic "he" informs readers better of who I am referring to.

Or maybe I just don't like Brits

[wallace18]

I always liked the quote that the English and Americans were separated by a common langauge. LOL.

[Mechie3]

I somehow feel a "that's what she said" joke would be appropriate here, but not sure if our British friends (or even all of our American friends) would get it.

[Evan78]

Well, "The Office" was a hit in England before they made a U.S. version...

[Xusia]

I *LOVE* a good "That's what SHE said" line, but let's not get this thread further off topic!

B33fy, I get what you saying now. Similar to Evan78, I feel that only applies in real conversations, but will make an effort to use actual names. To me, posts are different, because while you may be addressing someone, they aren't actually present. By the same token, 3rd parties aren't actually present either. I don't think that's a nationality difference as much as it is the difference in how each individual defines these new and convention breaking social "whatever-you-call-thems" brought about by the internet. No one has extended the etiquette rule book for every one of these situations (sure, there is well established etiquette for some situations, but certainly not all). Anyway, apologies and I'll make an effort to use names.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

[kmsgli]

Hey im new to this forum, I have been looking at the GTM but this 818 has really caught my eye. I build Vw's wondering what you Subaru guys do for fuel managment as I would want to build motor and tranny for big power in a 818. I am a megasquirt guy not sure if Subarus are big into that (not sure if anyone is as it is a little bit combuersome to use) very cost effective though.

Anyone know if a hard top is going to be offered? Vert is kind of a deal breaker for me.

Thanks for the input.

[B33fy]

No problem Xusia. Here's an image of my mid engined install for my v-storm I'm presuming the same or similar setup as the 818. this is pretty standard with about 220bhp

5449577550_2a3af09db0_z.jpg

I'd be interested to know what the gearchange mechanism will be like as they don't lend themselves well for conversion from rod to cable. I ended up designing my own system. I guess this would be for another thread or wait and and see what FFR come up with

[SkiRideDrive]

No problem Xusia. Here's an image of my mid engined install for my v-storm I'm presuming the same or similar setup as the 818. this is pretty standard with about 220bhp

5449577550_2a3af09db0_z.jpg

I'd be interested to know what the gearchange mechanism will be like as they don't lend themselves well for conversion from rod to cable. I ended up designing my own system. I guess this would be for another thread or wait and and see what FFR come up with

I'd be very interested in hearing about your gear shift setup. Thanks for sharing.

[shinn497]

No problem Xusia. Here's an image of my mid engined install for my v-storm I'm presuming the same or similar setup as the 818. this is pretty standard with about 220bhp

5449577550_2a3af09db0_z.jpg

I'd be interested to know what the gearchange mechanism will be like as they don't lend themselves well for conversion from rod to cable. I ended up designing my own system. I guess this would be for another thread or wait and and see what FFR come up with

God I feel like all my posts are questions but what type of vehicle is that for?

kmsgli, There are plans for a coupe 818 that will use the TDI drivetrain, but it won't come out until later. The initial versions will be roadster only with softtop. I for one don't mind the softtop. I have one on my miata and it serves me well even on rainy days.

[B33fy]

God I feel like all my posts are questions but what type of vehicle is that for?

kmsgli, There are plans for a coupe 818 that will use the TDI drivetrain, but it won't come out until later. The initial versions will be roadster only with softtop. I for one don't mind the softtop. I have one on my miata and it serves me well even on rainy days.

Its an SDR V-storm, an exocar, running a mid engined subaru setup a 2.0 EJ20 engine and a 5 speed box The SDR supplied gearchange is dash mounted resulting in long able runs and not so good gearchange. It was a long time coming as well. So I made my own floor mounted gearchange using some rod ends a rear suspension bellcrank from a motorbike and a toyota GT4 gearstick. I designed a few brackets and plates which I had laser cut and used 6mm push pull cables. I tried to keep it tidy looking as its on show. The end result below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/buckmoreboy/6954371758/

Below is an iimage of the gearshift minus a cover.

6953878966_1b9fcced7a_z.jpg

[shinn497]

nice, forgive me but is this our ocupation? Or just hobby. It does sound rather expensive to do all of this custom fabrication.

[B33fy]

Not too bad cost wise, secondhand GT4 Gearshift £20 Bellcrank £20 rod ends £5 each threaded rod a couple of pounds The mount on the gearshift was machined by a friend £25. cables £100 Plates cut £50, Just make sure you use your networks and repay the favour.

I'm a psychiatric nurse by trade, life long passive interest in cars, first time building a car.

[Evan78]

I build Vw's wondering what you Subaru guys do for fuel managment as I would want to build motor and tranny for big power in a 818. I am a megasquirt guy not sure if Subarus are big into that (not sure if anyone is as it is a little bit combuersome to use) very cost effective though.

The OEM computers are used a lot since they can be reflashed using Cobb's AccessPort or open source software (http://www.romraider.com/). I've never heard of someone using megasquirt on a street subaru, but I wouldn't be surprised if offroad guys use it for sandrails, etc.