Project 818 Design Contest Winners

[kach22i]

.........far too much frontal air intake area.

You have a valid point, and not everyone loves the large intakes on let's say an Audi, Mustang or Charger but it's one of the major styling trends going on these days.

The designs which confuse me have twin openings out to the front edges as if they are using two split-radiators like a Porsche or Ferrari. No form follows function here, but interesting designs just the same.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I'm not hatin'. I'm discussing a submission that won a public design contest, in explicit, respectful, non-personal, and (I hope) constructive language as possible, recognizing and respecting the amount of both talent and time Cr8tr put into it. He clearly has more design talent than I ever will. I suspect I'm like most here: I know what I like, but I can't draw it.

However, we are all potential customers here. FFR made the contest, results, and, it seems, the forthcoming development process, open to us, with reasonable limitations, for a reason. As long as we abide by the general rule to keep it respectful and constructive, what's the problem?

[Someday I Suppose]

Dave, I wonder if you could do a slide show or such on the home page of the site, someplace to showcase designs, but not have them open for feedback and discussion. I'd love to see some of the works especially those by kids, but totally agree that not all of them need to be critiqued by the masses.

There really is no way we can post all 700+ entries. Some of them were lovingly done and obvipously from kids, so I have to find a way to say thanks to EVERYONE who participated without exposing a good-hearted and excited 8 year old boy to criticism. I was thinking we would make a call on perhaps the 30-40 really great entries and throw them up for public debate here. As long as it is respectful of the efforts and passions involved, it will be a great excercise. We have tried SO HARD to be respectful, confidential (where asked), and appreciative thru this whole process. I guess I just want to make sure that all of our work together and everything we do ends up delivering a body shape that lives up to the chasiss and performance of the design. I WILL NOT accept mediocrity in this design. All FFR shapes are beautiful and extreme and dramatic... this one will be no exception and I can only promise one thing... When it drives down the road it will not EVER be msiatken for an OEM Hyundai.

[HealeyRick]

You know who would've cleaned up in this contest?

[blueafro]

It reminds me much less of a Hyundai, and much more of an Aston Martin.

You say Aston; I'd say the similar but pudgier look a late-90s, early 00s Jaguar coupe, perhaps leavened with a dash of mid-90s Ford Puma. Bland and sort of puffy, which makes this sort of interesting:

A large opening just creates drag like a parachute, and in my opinion, likens the car to a catfish.

Because I think the winning design, intake size or no, does have something of the catfish to it.

I guess this is a clear case of beauty in the eye of the beholder. You like it, the judges liked it, and Cr8tr himself believes it puts the Alfa-Romeo 4C "to shame," but it does nothing for me.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I agree with blueafro. I think the Alfa 4C is quite striking, and for a while made me calculate how much more it would cost than a Lotus Elise. From the description of it, it sounded like it could suprass the Elise.

Look, cars are like women. There's just something about a certain one, or a certain type, that pushes your buttons. A buddy of mine could look at one, and his jaw will hit the floor, while I'll say "she's OK." I'm the same way with Cr8tr's design. It's a nice design, and I would build it, but it doesn't take my jaw to the floor.

Anyway, this whole process will be fun and exciting. It's great that we're all so passionate about cars, and Dave Smith must be thrilled with the amount of attention this project has garnered. For the record, Mr. Smith, if you can make this car look as good as you expect, I will happy to step in line with my order.

[TehLlama]

While there is an appreciable canon that's going to have to occur on FFR's end when it comes to decisions between really eye-catching style and compatibility with affordable OEM components, I really do think that many elements from the top three designs can carry over and mesh extremely well. The styling of the rear end, especially the exhaust arrangement and FactoryFive logo placement of the winning design works extremely well, and could fit very well within the design language of the final product.
The lower belt line and roll bar arrangement of Xabier's design is excellent, and I think taking a few cues from the GTM design (in a similar fashion to how Mario Morra's design brilliantly incorporates elements from the GTM) to revise the front end could be an amazing functional and stylish nose for this thing.

I really do feel that integrating design and styling elements from varied designs would reflect exactly the sort of world car the '818' is intended to be.

I do think the functional direction they were exploring with the top three selected entries (with a Targa, and eventual Coupe being possible) is the right path to go down, and I doubt the finalized design language will be hard to adapt into an absolutely gorgeous Track model with primarily add-on parts (like a chin spoiler, skirts, spoiler, etc.), so while I'm quite certain these are already on the table from the functional standpoint, I think another reason Xabier's design has so much popular following here is because the design seems to have had that in mind from the start.

While I'm sure that FFR is going to ameliorate any minor styling disagreements by coming out with a stunning final model, I'm still quite certain that they could roll out an ugly, blindingly fast car and we'd build them: I guess all I'm asking is that we all realize that if the styling is right, it could truly be a timeless car, and one with the performance numbers to back it up... if this goes well enough sales on these could outstrip all the recent FFR projects.

[Fuddmenace]

The winning submission's design is well done on most accounts, and according to the esteemed judges, is the best one in the lot. Like I said, it was meticulously and beautifully presented and rendered and successfully exhibited the designer's talent. While I consider it a bit too "mainstream" and generic, or others would like to say "Hyundai"-sh, it apparently had the "it" that made it the top pick of the judges based on the parameters and whatever judging criteria was given, which when viewing the winning entries seemed to be very wide open. They probably saw something in the design that honestly I just do not see when envisioning how "my" lightweight, mid-engined, boxer-powered roadster from Factory Five Racing would look like, and the looks plays a big part of the car's character. I just don't feel it.

For me though, the $9k question really is, whether this is the design direction that "The Boss" is taking the 818 towards, is this the design character that Factory Five Racing will adopt for the 818? Can't wait to see the final design for the 818.

Based on the winning entries, I am drawn towards Farrands' wild concept roadster, it has a future forward but at the same time retro-tastic, mach five kind of vibe, which when toned down for production would look bonkers racing down the track and cruising down the street. Factory Five meets Speedracer. I am also partial towards Phomsavanh's entry, the shape is aggressive, sporty, compact, light-handed and suggests low center of gravity flat-four turbo boxer power. Put on some Hella projectors or conventional headlights, tidy up the nose and roll bar area and it's good to go. Kobayashi also deserves praise for presenting his raw, true to the template, roadster runabout concept. Sure looks like fun! I was also surprised not to see Ariff's white roadster, which just oozed Factory Five Racing character, much like how a mid-engined MK4 roadster would look like.

Good stuff, just waiting to see the rest of the submissions.

[wrw2497]

I really do not understand why you would pick a japanese drive train for this project.....I, for one do NOT buy japanese cars,have never owned one and will never own one.....I am old enough to know that the japanese are not our friends and never have been,just ask a WW 2 veteran....A lot of great Americans were killed by the japanese and thier backstabbing ways......I currently own an FFR mk 3 that I bought and built because it is an all american car (albeit based on a brit design),all built here in the USA,with American parts......I think it diminishes Factory Five Racing by adding this half breed....is it a matter of building something cheap ? I thought you were proud of America and the products we make here....I just don't get it......disappointed,really

[Steve91T]

I really do not understand why you would pick a japanese drive train for this project.....I, for one do NOT buy japanese cars,have never owned one and will never own one.....I am old enough to know that the japanese are not our friends and never have been,just ask a WW 2 veteran....A lot of great Americans were killed by the japanese and thier backstabbing ways......I currently own an FFR mk 3 that I bought and built because it is an all american car (albeit based on a brit design),all built here in the USA,with American parts......I think it diminishes Factory Five Racing by adding this half breed....is it a matter of building something cheap ? I thought you were proud of America and the products we make here....I just don't get it......disappointed,really

Then don't buy one. Problem solved.

[Someday I Suppose]

All I can say is that if Hyundai had a car that looked like that I would have bought it by now :-)

[ScottKoschwitz]

The recent Hyundais are good looking cars. I always liked the Tiburon, even the first generation, and the Genesis Coupe is pretty sharp and has good performance. However, they are designed and built to be daily drivers and to be sold in huge volume, not to be that special performance car for a niche group like us.

[kach22i]

Alfa-Romeo 4C

I agree with blueafro. I think the Alfa 4C is quite striking, and for a while made me calculate how much more it would cost than a Lotus Elise. From the description of it, it sounded like it could suprass the Elise.

One thing for you guys to remember is the 4C and Elise are very short wheelbase cars compared to the 818 specifications. However I too love those cars and think it would be much easier to meet the weight goal in a more compact package.

We have seen 1/7th to 1/10th of the +700 entries posted in this forum. For conversation purposes I'm posting my own 7th entry which is early 1960's Bizzarrini/Ferrari + Alfa Romeo 4C influenced. It was by far my most retro design, my wife's favorite if that means anything to the fellows.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...rial%20Design/






As you can see, this just comes off as a much larger car than the ones which inspired it. Not my fault, I just followed the template.

Sorry, I don't do the computer 3D thing. I got into design because I love to draw, paint and work in clay.

[GUNS]

I really do not understand why you would pick a japanese drive train for this project.....I, for one do NOT buy japanese cars,have never owned one and will never own one.....I am old enough to know that the japanese are not our friends and never have been,just ask a WW 2 veteran....A lot of great Americans were killed by the japanese and thier backstabbing ways......I currently own an FFR mk 3 that I bought and built because it is an all american car (albeit based on a brit design),all built here in the USA,with American parts......I think it diminishes Factory Five Racing by adding this half breed....is it a matter of building something cheap ? I thought you were proud of America and the products we make here....I just don't get it......disappointed,really

Oh God, you're one of those. Get over it. This coming from a military dude with family that served in WWII

[Dave Smith]

Lets remember to keep this communictaion respectful and focus on fellowship.

To WRW2497: I was raised by a Naval Officer and I can tell you that running Factory Five is such an honor because we are an AMERICAN MANUFACTURING company. I think that once I explain more about the 818 you will see the patriotism in the work. Twenty percent of our cars are EXPORTED (thats a great thing and as a country we used to do alot more of that). Of our current product lines it is very difficult and expensive (meaning too many people dont do it) to get american V8 running gear outside of the US, particularly in areas like UK/Europe, and the far east. We picked the Subaru running gear because it is a cool boxer architecture, affordable, but VERY importantly, available in almost every area of the world. So what I am saying is that the japanese running gear enables more people from around the world to build a Factory Five, that was made in Wareham Massachusetts, USA. I respect your feeling and emotions but the fact is that for us to EXPORT is a very good and patriotic thing. Beyond that, I have plans to power the car with alternate drivetrains like the TDI and possibly Fords new 1 litre turbo eco-boost engine.

Lets all remember that this forum is here to serve the community, as I am here in the best job in the world, only because you guys are willing to let me keep doing this. I am locking up the building, but I took three customers on my traditional parking lot 90 mph drift session... Three more converts to the church of Factory Five... Three more people who now understand the beauty and functional beauty of the FFR chassis. Have a great weekend!

[blueafro]

One thing for you guys to remember is the 4C and Elise are very short wheelbase cars compared to the 818 specifications.

I am curious about the 4C's wheelbase. When the concept was first shown, the wheelbase is given as "less than 2.4 meters," which presumable means "more than 2.3 meters." That would put it between 90.5 and 94.5 inches, which ranges from Elise-size to 1/2 inch shorter than 818. Given the number 2.4 was given instead of 2.3, I'd guess it's closer to the 818 than to the Elise, but by how much? (Of course a production version, if it ever appears, may deviate significantly from the show car.)

However I too love those cars

I mentioned the 4C not because I love the design, but because I found it very interesting that Cr8tr offered it as a direct comparison to his winning design (months before he won, no less). That's doubly interesting given how well the judges responded to his design.

The 4C is a bold, distinctive, and (to my eye) fairly cohesive design, but I'm personally on the fence about it. Some parts of the 4C I like a lot (nose, front fenders, cockpit elevation, rear hatch and trunk), where others I find awkward (transition from door to rear-fender intakes), and other parts a bit cliched (lower tail and taillights).

it would be much easier to meet the weight goal in a more compact package.

It will be interesting to see how close FF comes to its weight targets, but I'm not sure the chosen wheelbase is going to be much of a problem. If the car at a crude estimate weighs roughly the same for every inch of wheelbase, then a 5% difference in wheelbase (Elise vs. 818) would only work out to 40 or so kilos, or 90 lbs. In reality, that's not a good yardstick given that the mechanicals are staying the same, as presumably are the overhangs, so the real difference might be less.

[blueafro]

For conversation purposes I'm posting my own 7th entry which is early 1960's Bizzarrini/Ferrari + Alfa Romeo 4C influenced. It was by far my most retro design, my wife's favorite if that means anything to the fellows.

I like how you handled the transition from door to vents. It looks far better to me than how Alfa-Romeo handled the same thing on the 4C. I also like the side elevation of the cockpit.

[Bluewinters21]

Dave,
I applaud the use of a WRX power plant design. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that we, as a Nation, need to increase our export base. A country cannot sustain its self off of government jobs and the service industries. There is a need to have tangible products for the purpose of a tax base. Especially in a global market. We gave up isolation policies a long time ago (which is not a bad thing) so long as we have a strong manufacturing base. Unfortunately we have sent most of our industry overseas in the interest of avarice… Without product lines, textiles, or raw materials to sell abroad, (or even locally for that matter) our debit will only increase as there are more monies being spent on government jobs and social programs than our infrastructure can afford.

One of the issues I have with GTM Supercar is the need for a Corvette donor car… Corvettes fetch premium prices in my neck of the woods. And going through a dealership is prohibitive. The WRX platform is very plentiful in my area. This platform is a little easier for me to come by. WRX power plants already have a strong support community. Modifications that work for reasonably priced and reliable horsepower/torque increases are well documented. And the sound of a well tuned WRX STI engine is amazing. How do they make that little engine sound like a rumbling V-8?

The idea of multiple power plants is a strong one. Ford is indeed doing amazing things these days, so it’s hard to go wrong with most of their drive train options… Is Alan Mulally still running the show there? Either way, the more options for completing the kits, the better.

In short, things at factory five seem to be going… seem to be continuing, in the right direction. And remember, if people are not concerned about your direction and products, that means they probably don’t care. And that would tell you that you’re doing something wrong. Never rest upon your laurels.

[Super Buggy]

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to participate in this 818 body design contest. I'm very honored to have been chosen Tim Suddard Judge's Award! Also I’m a potential 818 customer. Thank you so much

[kach22i]

4C's wheelbase..............90.5 and 94.5 inches, which ranges from Elise-size to 1/2 inch shorter than 818.

818 = 95"

http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...car/?car=77396
or here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Exige
Elise = 90.6"

So the Elise wheelbase is about 4-1/2" shorter than the 818's.

From below, the 818 wheelbase is as long as the C4's whole body:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/a...t-geneva-2011/

Smaller than the 8C it essentially succeeds, the 4C doesn't shed the excitement factor, just concentrates it into a more compact shape. In fact, at less than eight feet long, it doesn't get much more concentrated than this

web630-4c-live08.jpg

Mind you my original comment was rather seat of the pants, based on general observations. These first impressions hold true upon further research.

Blueafro:

I like how you handled the transition from door to vents

Yea, line drawings can let you get away with murder sometimes. This time in my mind I imagine the line from the two different directions would have to bump into each other. This point could be a null or flat spot, but I think working in clay I would put a shallow crease there, a "score line" if you will. This crease or score line could/would be part of the side/hood ridge and rear intake as well, perhaps hidden in a fold until the unification brought it to light.

I also remember thinking a door release handle could be hidden inside of the rear side vent. I tend to design things more complex than I end up building them. Which is why I like to get my hands dirty - keeps me honest.

[olpro]

The Chrysler Crossfire, and of course the old Dodge Chargers, featured that positive-negative transition as a main side design element. I think they both just let the feature not actually connect. It still flows together visually.
One of the Greek guys used a similar transition on his entry, albeit in the opposite direction.
You are to be credited to realize that there is an issue making the element actually read through.

[blueafro]

So the Elise wheelbase is about 4-1/2" shorter than the 818's.

Yes, the Elise wheelbase is 2.3 meters, which is why in referring to 2.3 meters as the probable lower bound of the published figures on the 4C wheelbase, I referred to it as "Elise size."

From below, the 818 wheelbase is as long as the C4's whole body:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/a...t-geneva-2011/

I don't see where you're seeing that. This is text from the press release in your link:

"a length of approximately 4 metres and a wheelbase of less than 2.4 metres." Four meters is 157". 2.4 meters is 94.5", which is why I compared the 818's 95" to the range of 2.3 to 2.4 meters, which I termed "Elise-size to 1/2 inch shorter than 818," or 90.5-94.5".

By comparison, the overall length of the Smart Car, which is about the shortest real car around, is 2.5 meters or 98.5", so an overall length of 95" for the 4C woud be incredibly tiny.

Edit: Okay, I do see where you are getting that. The Autoblog editors either mistook wheelbase for overall length or simply expressed themselves poorly. The press release gives the actual figures.

[prematureapex]

I really do not understand why you would pick a japanese drive train for this project.....I, for one do NOT buy japanese cars,have never owned one and will never own one.....I am old enough to know that the japanese are not our friends and never have been,just ask a WW 2 veteran....A lot of great Americans were killed by the japanese and thier backstabbing ways......I currently own an FFR mk 3 that I bought and built because it is an all american car (albeit based on a brit design),all built here in the USA,with American parts......I think it diminishes Factory Five Racing by adding this half breed....is it a matter of building something cheap ? I thought you were proud of America and the products we make here....I just don't get it......disappointed,really

Ok, guess you won't be returning to this forum then. Bye.

[kach22i]

I don't see where you're seeing that.

The quote is from the first sentence in the second paragraph.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/a...t-geneva-2011/

Click the link, that woman is either an Amazon or the car is tiny.

I'm thinking that the C4 could be smaller than the Lancia Stratos, and that is small, real small.

I saw the C8 today in person, just a beautiful car.

[blueafro]

The quote is from the first sentence in the second paragraph.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/a...t-geneva-2011/

Yes, but it's wrong. You have to click the link further down the page to expand the press release.

that woman is either an Amazon or the car is tiny.

She is tall, and she is wearing high heels, but imagine her in the horizontal, and you'll see she'd never fit in the wheelbase, much less the overall length.

[crackedcornish]

Yes, but it's wrong. You have to click the link further down the page to expand the press release.



She is tall, and she is wearing high heels, but imagine her in the horizontal, and you'll see she'd never fit in the wheelbase, much less the overall length.

I was doing just that

[bromikl]

Call me crazy, but I am completely unable to see any similarities between Cr8er's design and the 4C. They both have four wheels. After that, I'm not seeing it.


Though if FFR wanted to duplicate its size, I'm totally OK with that. Not sure why the 818 needs a 95 inch wheelbase. The Exige is 90.5 inches, and handles wonderfully.

[riptide motorsport]

5" of wheelbase translates into alot when it comes to leg room as well as overall proportions......

[mske390]

I really do not understand why you would pick a japanese drive train for this project.....I, for one do NOT buy japanese cars,have never owned one and will never own one.....I am old enough to know that the japanese are not our friends and never have been,just ask a WW 2 veteran....A lot of great Americans were killed by the japanese and thier backstabbing ways......

As a veteran and proud american I say to you...that was over a half century ago time to let go. This is a totally different world now, we have to be open to globalization if we want to remain as powerful as we are. I have no problem buying a japanese car (actually own one), I work hard for my money so I am going to spend it in the what I consider the wisest way possible. I bought it from an american dealership and the car was built by american workers so the majority of the price went to americans. Also, I look at it this way, if the american auto industry wants to receive all of this money then step up your game and build a comparable product. We shouldn't reward mediocrity!

[ZeroDrift]

Some very good designs out there, and the finalists are also quite good looking! I'd be very interested in buying a kit if it was offered as a coupe, or a targa top as I'd use the car as a summer car more than likely. Any ideas for expected dates for the final design, and of course; when the kit would be available?

[eoyler]

Loving the 818 project! Can't wait to see what FFR decides to include in their final design.

Dave, is there any chance you can have an email list or Twitter feed or something to allow us to keep up to date with the latest news on the 818??? The forum is great for discussions, but I'd love to hear the latest details as soon as they come out to the public. Something just for the 818 news.

Thanks for putting on such an awesome project!

[David]

I guess I'm just in love with Xabiers track car.
Xabier's 818R side view

That car would be just as sexy with a windshield and no rear wing. That profile is beautiful and well proportioned. Id be a buyer for sure. Most of the others probably not.

David

[riptide motorsport]

Actually if it doesn't look like that or that good.....I'm not buying it!!!!!!!!

[LiquidPT]

That car would be just as sexy with a windshield and no rear wing. That profile is beautiful and well proportioned. Id be a buyer for sure. Most of the others probably not.

David

You mean like this?





(3rd place winner from page 1. Same car in street form)

[Ks2]

with the roof on, still amazing... would be great to see it with a glass T-top like the older corvett

(i don't like the tinting on this one... but it is a good example)

M-1131pair.jpgTHW310.JPG

[Steve91T]

with the roof on, still amazing... would be great to see it with a glass T-top like the older corvett

(i don't like the tinting on this one... but it is a good example)

M-1131pair.jpgTHW310.JPG

Waaaaay too heavy.

[Justen]

I really do not understand why you would pick a japanese drive train for this project.....I, for one do NOT buy japanese cars,have never owned one and will never own one.....I am old enough to know that the japanese are not our friends and never have been,just ask a WW 2 veteran....A lot of great Americans were killed by the japanese and thier backstabbing ways......I currently own an FFR mk 3 that I bought and built because it is an all american car (albeit based on a brit design),all built here in the USA,with American parts......I think it diminishes Factory Five Racing by adding this half breed....is it a matter of building something cheap ? I thought you were proud of America and the products we make here....I just don't get it......disappointed,really

the Subaru powerplant is just one of the options for this car. At the open house Dave was talking about many different powerplants as well as different bodies. There was mention of putting the Ford
EcoBoost engine as an alternative as well as bio-diesel options. so do some research before you start hatin'

[kitcarj]

Hewlett-Packard Technology Award for Best Integration of Computer Technology - Davy Phomsavanh



Look how similar these two designs ended up.
http://www.gizmag.com/toyota-grmn-sp...cept-ii/19008/http://www.gizmag.com/toyota-grmn-sp...cept-ii/19008/
toyota-grmn-sports-concept-ii.jpg

[kach22i]

Look how similar these two designs ended up.

Easy to see similarities with the colors matching like that.

However if you can click the link below, the Toyota may have more in common with a Audi concept sketch I dug up while doing research for the 818 competition.

Link:
http://thehotseatforum.com/forum/vie...hp?f=15&t=1237

[olpro]

Hewlett-Packard Technology Award for Best Integration of Computer Technology - Davy Phomsavanh



Look how similar these two designs ended up.
http://www.gizmag.com/toyota-grmn-sp...cept-ii/19008/http://www.gizmag.com/toyota-grmn-sp...cept-ii/19008/
toyota-grmn-sports-concept-ii.jpg

They are both red. Other than that?