Basic suspension tuning question

[mike223]

On the bright side, they love slip angles

So if you can maintain the throttle (or ease off just slightly), open the wheel up a degree or two they will slide predictably. Once you are at a point where you can start opening the steering wheel up you can roll on the throttle and the rear end will plant itself and will launch itself at corner exit.

For the OP - slip angles are key.

Managing the slip angles (front and back) in a hard corner - using the throttle (alone) to transfer weight (grip) back and forth between the front + rear axles through that corner.


Using the steering wheel less and learning to steer it through the corner with the throttle.


"Drifting" - not the power slide that passes for drifting these days - "slip angles".


It's what these cars were built to do better than the (1963) competition. On skinny bias ply tires.



Pictured below is "too much" slip angle, but still not a "power slide" - useful to learn for safely scrubbing off speed when you get in a corner too hot - because if you step off the throttle right here, you're going for a spin...


62084_31a.jpg

[AdamIsAdam]

For the OP - slip angles are key...


Pictured below is "too much" slip angle, but still not a "power slide" - useful to learn for safely scrubbing off speed when you get in a corner too hot - because if you step off the throttle right here, you're going for a spin...


62084_31a.jpg

FINALLY! I get it now! You are exactly correct in what cause my spin!!! Take a look at the video right here and as I come out of the right-hander I lift... then slide. In fact, now that I think about it, I was sliding every time I lifted! But I was sliding when I was on the gas too, so then what?! Might that would be a time to brake with the left foot while staying on the gas? On a tight auto-x course, I have a feeling I was not making that next turn if I had stayed on the gas either.

Great, so drive it like a 911/930 Turbo, aka, The Widow Maker! Like I said earlier, I sold my 911 to buy the Cobra because I disliked the feel of trying to throw a hammer straight! lol (Well, that and the Cobra is WAY cooler!)

Well, at least if I want to look like I can drive better I can get into my 2018 GT350 and leave the nannies on and just go wild but it won't look nearly as exciting as the Cobra (I've actually successfully overpowered the nannies in that car too, on purpose. Physics is a *****! Or in YouTube speak: you just can't fix stupid. But that was all done on purpose to explore the car. You know, in the interest of science.)

[mike223]

FINALLY! I get it now! You are exactly correct in what cause my spin!!! You're getting part of it.

In fact, now that I think about it, I was sliding every time I lifted! But I was sliding when I was on the gas too, so then what?! Might that would be a time to brake with the left foot while staying on the gas? Not likely, see below.

On a tight auto-x course, I have a feeling I was not making that next turn if I had stayed on the gas either. You've probably got that right.

Great, so drive it like a 911/930 Turbo, aka, The Widow Maker! Absolutely - see here: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...ever-made.html


But that was all done on purpose to explore the car. You know, in the interest of science. Autocross should be required driver training.

Back to this: "But I was sliding when I was on the gas too, so then what?!".

And back to the picture of Stirling Moss or Jim Clark (I forget which) in the Aston Martin - There's only two ways to get in that situation (unless you're an early 1960's alien quality driver on bias ply tyres - more on that in a minute) - you either got in the corner too hot or you applied too much throttle too early.


You've got slip angles on both the front + the back tires - as pictured, the slip angle is a lot higher in the rear, but there's got to be significant slip angle in the front too, or he's about to be in the grass (and I seriously doubt he touched grass).


You only (purposely) induce slip angles as high as pictured (on the rear) to scrub off excess speed (without spinning the car).


It's not the "fast" way through a corner - it's scrubbing off too much speed and abusing the tyres (European spelling "tyre") - but it has a purpose - reduce the energy without spinning the car.


Bias ply tires could work better with higher slip angles than radial tires.


Off the top of my head I'm going to generalize that a "perfectly executed" corner on bias plys would probably average 8-15% slip angles (both ends), whereas the "fastest" approach is going to be more like 5-8% maximum slip angles on radials.

By the time you get to 15-20% slip angles you're living dangerously on bias plys - and that's more like around 10-12% on radials - you're no longer executing the perfectly fast corner, you're actually using the tires as brakes.



The beauty of widowmakers (in general) is that once you get them set up anywhere close to neutral handling in a corner at neutral throttle - you can then adjust your slip angles at both ends of the car instantly on track with what you're doing with the throttle.



But that's all a real sharp knife and a real big hammer (combined) - so learn it somewhere safe like autocross. You know, in the interest of science...