RustlesRoadster

[edwardb]

Great job. Looks like a simple and strong solution. Now you can move on to more important things.

[2bking]

Very clever solution. I like it. It looks to be much stronger than the other methods.

[russelljones48]

Thanks for the input and assistance. And to Mike Noyes for the idea and time he's spent with me.. If I can EVER figure out how to get pics from my phone to my laptop and then on to this site consistently I will document the whole mod process. Not sure why I'm having trouble since I've spent my whole life in IT but this combination of phone to PC to boards has me baffled.. and of course, it's got Google/gmail in the middle to complicate matters.

[russelljones48]

So this is the starting picture with the frame tube cut and bent 3/4" to the outside. I debated if I should cut the windshield mount where it meets the bar and decided to leave it connected. Glad I did since it really didn't budge and therefore should have no impact on the windshield and it helped to maintain the last weld on the tube. I made the cut with my little sanding/cutting vibrating tool. I used hardwood blocks and my long pry bar braced against the tubes in the footbox to bend the tube out to the position you see here.

not sure why I can't get this pic in the post see following post

Things I might consider if I was doing this again: do this before the aluminum is installed against the bulkhead. I might use a cut off wheel rather than the hacksaw blade because the thin cut left some interference with the two pieces when I went to bend the tube to the outside. At this point I went to a local steel supply store and bought a 2' piece of 5/8" X 5/8" square bar for about $8.

Next step is to cut 4-5" of the steel bar, clean up the tube piece that's still attached to the bulkhead and insert (tap in) the bar.

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 011.jpg

This is a top-down view of the re-positioned tube. You can see where the tube bent at the end of the windshield mount. I used the long piece (now about 20") of the 5/8" bar inserted in the outside tube to fine tune the position. However it was now apparent that getting the extension parallel to the inside tube would take a bit more work.
Download of FFR build 10-09-15 013.jpg

This pic shows the long piece of the bar clamped to the inside tube. This was about all I could get the outside tube to bend so next step was to bend the 5/8" bar so that the 4-5" closest to the inside tube would be parallel and bolt up easily or relatively easily... To do that I marked the spot where I wanted the bar to bend, clamped it into my vice, slipped a 3' piece of galvanized persuader onto the bar and bent it (with 2 or 3 trial fittings) to be parallel to the inside tube. Here's 3 shots that show the bent bar held in place with a small c-clamp, a view from the footbox, and the trial pedal assembly with the clutch pedal up against the aluminum. All of this was a little more work than I thought because the 3/4" tubing has some curves but all-in-all only an hour or so and now it was off to the hardware store for some 12.9 button head bolts: 1/4 X 20 of various lengths with some washers etc. so I didn't have to make another trip.

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 014.jpg
Download of FFR build 10-09-15 015.jpg
Download of FFR build 10-09-15 016.jpg

Now I needed to drill and tap my 4 holes. I took out the long piece after marking the outside and drilling through the steel tube wall on the inside of the pedal box to mark the 5/8" bar. I just drilled through the tube wall to mark the bar with a small drill bit. Then removed the whole bar and drilled the holes - with the right drill for tapping the all 4 holes to 1/4 X 20. I'll explain why I tapped all 4 in a minute. But here's a couple more shots of the long bar with holes. I'd hoped you could see the bend but it's too slight for the camera to really pick it up.

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 018.jpg
Download of FFR build 10-09-15 021.jpg
Download of FFR build 10-09-15 019.jpg

With all 4 holes drilled and the 2 inner holes tapped in the bar, I opened up the 2 holes on the tube inside the box to 9/32" slid the bar in and threaded in 2 bolts (1/4 X 20 X 3/4") to pin the bar in place. I clamped the outside portion of the bar to the the 3/4" tube (close to the F panel and drilled through the holes through the inner tube with the bar inside.

I removed the long bar again and tapped the holes in the bar, re-positioned it in the car again, and tapped the holes in the inner bar. I chose to do it this way to make sure that the tap would go straight into the inside tube and bar. Might not have been needed but was just a precaution. Note: the holes go all the way through the inner tube and bar that's outside of the bulkhead - but do not go all the way through on the bar inside the footbox - the inner wall of the tube is left intact and smooth. Next, still working with the long bar it was removed and the outer 2 holes were drilled out to 1/4" to remove the threads. One more final fitment with the long bar showed everything bolted in as planned.

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 023.jpg

Now I marked the spot where I wanted to cut it, cut the bar to that mark, cleaned it up and you can see final fitment below before it gets it paint job. Also pictured is the final piece.

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 026.jpg

you can see the final part in the next post - I think I ran out of room in this post.

[russelljones48]

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 025.jpg Picture of piece. You can see in this picture that one of the holes is a bit out of line. The bulkhead aluminum interfered with my drill and I was off just a bit. BUT it works fine - just not perfectly aligned...

First pic from prior post

Download of FFR build 10-09-15 010.jpg

[KDubU]

I like this idea and have been humming and hawing which way to go. Definitely going this way as it seems a strong solution.

[russelljones48]

Kyle - PM me if you have questions. I'm very happy with the fix. I'm a bit spoiled because the other car I "row" around is a Porsche and the ergonomics are pretty good... I'm going to pull it apart once more clean it up and paint with POR and I'm done.

[russelljones48]

One final change. I did this as I cleaned up and painted the part and frame pieces yesterday but it should be done earlier. When you insert the first piece of 5/8" bar into the tube that's still attached to the bulkhead - leave it protruding about 1/4". Then cut the tube you've just bent so that it sits back against the 1/4" extension. This will make it easier to get the bar parallel to the frame. What I also did that I didn't mention above was to wedge some washers between the 2 tubes next to the bulkhead to add leverage for bending the tube.

[russelljones48]

2 last pics - painted and installed

FFR Build final pics 001.jpg

FFR Build final pics 002.jpg

[russelljones48]

Finally - big brakes AND wheels that fit. My FFR Halibrands will go up for sale soon......

FFR AP brakes 2015-11-07.jpg
FFR AP brakes wheels 2015-11-07.jpg

[CraigS]

Russell and Mike, this is a great way to deal w/ the interference. Looks very strong to me. My only suggestion is that the bolts inside the foot box could be run vertically so that you could have a through bolt w/ a nut on the end.

[russelljones48]

Craig - that's a great suggestion - after finishing up I think a through bolt would have worked with the bolts horizontal - they're far enough back. Drilling vertically might be a better idea.

[russelljones48]

It has been a while for a post for me. I am still making progress but much more slowly over the last few months. I have had numerous distractions - good ones but it's now time to get back to work and I have a question I hope someone can help with. I've begun to assemble the drivetrain and I'm using the Coyote motor, the stock 9-bolt Ford Racing flywheel and a Spec Stage 2 clutch. My question is this: I'd like to use ARP pressure plate bolts and the only ones I can find are 10X1.5X25 MM. They are sold for the earlier modular motor and I haven't been able to determine if the are an exact fit or if not that they will be OK. The Ford Racing "kit" includes locator pins which I don't need and I would prefer the ARP hardware. Has anyone used these bolts in this application? Did they work OK? Does anyone know the exact dimensions of the FR bolts?

Thanks

[Mike N]

I believe that the Coyote pressure plate bolts are 10mm x 1.0mm pitch not 1.5mm. http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-det...?RecordID=4567

You need to use pins to locate the pressure plate. I'm assuming that when you say you don't need the pins you mean that the flywheel already has pins installed.

[edwardb]

I believe that the Coyote pressure plate bolts are 10mm x 1.0mm pitch not 1.5mm. http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-det...?RecordID=4567

You need to use pins to locate the pressure plate. I'm assuming that when you say you don't need the pins you mean that the flywheel already has pins installed.

Your link is to the flywheel bolts to the crankshaft. Not pressure plate to flywheel that are being asked about. I posted this in the other forum: I bought the Ford Racing pressure plate and dowel kit, M-6397-A46. It includes 10mm x 1.5 bolts, and I can confirm they fit the Ford Racing billet flywheel I'm using with my Coyote. I like ARP stuff too, but the kit from FR I'm sure is fine. $14 from Summit.

[Mike N]

Ah yes. They are flywheel bolts. I stand corrected.

[russelljones48]

I should preface this with the fact that I'm no lighting expert or EE but I do try to look for those who present facts and well founded opinions. I'm going to contribute my findings here so, hopefully, others can benefit from my research. I did a quick search here and did not find much on the roadster headlights and since LEDs have progressed quite a bit I'm upgrading the lighting on my FFR - almost everything on the car. But in researching my options I found that there's so much junk out there on the WEB (opinion and equipment) to sift through it's taken me a while to figure out the decent options and that's just for the headlights.. Couple of thank you's to 2 valuable resources: Daniel Stern and candlepowerforums. Both of these resources deal in fact and not hype... Ultimately here's the options I came up with.

Option 1.) "Better" OEM lights. There are a couple good replacement sealed beams that may be better than what's on your car. GE Nighthawks are an example. The improvement isn't good enough for me since I occasionally drive rural 2 lanes at night.

Option 2.) Convert to Halogens. According to Daniel Stern and others there are 2 7" reflectors out there that are good - Cibie which Daniel sells and Koito which are pricier and harder to find. This option will also need the installation of a good relay and wiring. approximate cost is in the $250 - $300 range plus the time or labor to install. Here's a quote on the Halogens: Halogen headlamps: Put in a set of Cibie replaceable-bulb headlamp units, $79/ea. They are the best focused, most efficient readily-available lamps of their type to fit your application. All of the reputable-brand 7" headlamps presently available (Cibie, Bosch, Hella, Koito) are well made of good quality materials, but the Cibies are the most efficient, best focused, highest performing units of their type -- more detail on request. There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes, Adjure, Eagle Eye, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, and dozens of other off-brand units mostly from China. Avoid all of it. Also take cautious note that many vendors are offering Bosch 7" H4 headlamps at blowout prices of about fifty bucks a pair. Nice price, but they are surplus motorcycle headlamps, and though they'll physically fit, they aren't car/truck headlamps and their performance isn't adequate for car/truck service. (There is an H4 lamp better than the Cibie, made in Japan by Koito, but it is enough more expensive and difficult to get hold of that its cost-effectiveness is kind of iffy).

Option 3.) LED headlamps. My research (mostly from the site named candlepowerforums) tells me that there are 3 decent LED headlamps out there: Peterson, Trucklites, and JW Speaker. The Speaker Evolution II's seems to be the pick of the litter but the others perform well too. Approximate price range: $400 - $600 for the pair and they are direct plug ins for a well maintained harness and use less power
than the OEMs. Note: the major brand LED units like the GE are mostly re-brands of the 3 above and are a bit more expensive.

Option 4.) HID's. Here's the quote from Daniel Stern and this is similar to advice from others out there who know lighting. He can say this much better than I can and it is obviously his opinion but all of the
other experts and the tests that I saw support this view.
"There is exactly one legitimate, legal, well-made, good-performing HID headlamp to fit your vehicle. It is built around the Hella high/low-beam projector used in current-model higher-end Mercedes, BMWs, Audis, Porsches, etc. Beam performance is vastly superior to what can be obtained with tungsten/halogen light bulbs in any optic unit. Power consumption is less than that of halogen headlamps. Bulb lifespan is about 10 years. The lens is almost-impossible- to-break borosilicate glass (no haze/fog/scratch-up issue like plastic lenses give) Beam focus is broad, robust, and highly precise, with excellent control of glare and stray light; when these lamps are aimed correctly they are inoffensive to other road users on low beam. They are also fully road-legal. It is a very costly option; price for the pair is $1523.62 (with black bezel you can paint if you want). Chrome bezel is available for +$100 (pair). Price is all-inclusive; you do not need to get any additional components. All wiring components, bulbs, ballasts, etc. are included; it is plug-and- play. I stock them. Photos attached show these lamps in a Jeep and a Porsche. This is, by a large margin, the best-performing headlamp system to fit a 7" round application such as yours.

I hope this helps others here. The mis-information on this topic out there made my head spin. Read Daniel's tech info and go to candlepower. IMHO if you buy much of the stuff out there you will be lucky to get decent headlights. I've ordered the JW Speaker units from Northridge 4X4 for $480. And I will take Daniels advice on LED's for directional and taillights..

[russelljones48]

SHEET METAL INSTALL

It looks like I can skip the usual apology for the length of time between posts... :-). I'm probably not going to be a good build documenter, but I've made progress in fits and starts in the last few months. I have now almost completed the sheet metal install (thanks to Richard Oben's advice) and wanted to offer some observations for first time builders.

First, my approach for the car is that I may not choose to cover my aluminum so I want it to look as good as possible with uniform rivet spacing and patterns and a consistent finish. So, I may appear a little OCD about this topic.

My first advice would be to follow Richard's advice. Do all or almost all of the sheet metal in one fell swoop but do it with Cleco's not rivets. He's much quicker than I am so it took me a couple of weeks (not days) - I would say 40-50 hours.

My second piece of advice would be to pretty much ignore the FFR manual and definitely DON'T install piece by piece. Assemble an area or section together and fit/modify all of the pieces in that area together before doing any drilling and Clecoing.

I want to digress a bit and talk about the tools I used and what I might change. I used 4 different drills: a regular corded drill, a regular cordless drill, an air drill ( as small as you can find for tight places) and my bench top drill press for pre-drilling panels. Buy LOTS of drill bits - I've already gone through about 20. Also figure out a quick way to lube your bits for each hole. My solution was to use a thimble sized cup (plastic AN fitting cover) and fill it with aerosol white grease for dipping.

I ended up with over 100 Clecos and a small set of the Cleco clamps (these proved invaluable for temporary set up and as a working clamps). If I had this to do again I would buy another set of Cleco pliers since I was constantly retrieving it from the car or from my work area - they were never in the right spot when I needed them.

For minor trimming I used my tin snip set, my die grinder with various bits, and my belt sander for longer edges. There were several areas where the frame welds interfered with proper sheet fit and some areas where the panel didn't match the frame - most notably the trans tunnel. For longer cuts and for fabrication I found these power shears invaluable: http://www.eastwood.com/electric-met...ng-shears.html. They aren't perfect but with a guide and/or careful use they worked very well for me and for $50 I wonder what I did without them. I also found that my relatively complete set of "wood" hole saws were very handy and they work well on aluminum if lubricated with the white grease. I even found that spade bits are good for aluminum with lube.

There's still one area where I've struggled but I think I've found a solution. My conundrum was that I wanted the rivets to look good on the back side in some cases. Specifically in the driver's side foot box the funky/ragged ends of the pop rivets could snag clothing or shoes in that tight space. So, I punched out the ends of the pop rivets and tried expanding and flattening them (see youtube). This worked OK but left a hole in the center of the rivet which I would then have to seal - too many steps.. The solution looks like solid rivets for those areas. However, this requires special tools: a special air hammer and specialized dollies.. I have some aircraft buddies who will loan me the tools so I won't incur the expense ($150-200) for 20 - 30 rivets.

Lastly, there's lots of areas/gaps that will need to be filled and to look good they will need black or silver/gray caulk and to be carefully taped to create nice looking joints - but that's for final assembly... I do hope this helps someone who's new to all this sheet metal and rivets.

[awd-turbo]

Dude, just saw this.... I am in charlotte on the Gastonia side... I am doing the wire and body work right now while I wait for the engine to be finished!

[russelljones48]

We should get together - there's also another M4 Coyote being built in Concord. He and I are going up to Whitby tomorrow and help with each other's cars when we can... PM me for my phone, address, etc..

[russelljones48]

A quick update for those who want to use a Ford inertia switch (there are a few). The cheapest switch I could find was from Tasca Ford PN 5L1Z-9341-A Price $37.81 without shipping. You then need the pigtail and Ford gets almost $50 for it. I found it at Rockauto for $27.79 - search for PN WPT1001 (the Ford part number) less shipping.

[russelljones48]

Speed Dial for the Gen 1 Coyote??

When I originally started (yes, I Know, a long time ago) I put the FR speed dial in my wish list on Summit. Just discovered they no longer carry it BUT no one else does either. I can't find any posts about a substitute and I certainly don't want to spend $1200 for a new controls pack.. Does anyone know how people are now addressing the OSS/VSS conversion to the Gen 1 FR controls pack?

[edwardb]

Speed Dial for the Gen 1 Coyote??

When I originally started (yes, I Know, a long time ago) I put the FR speed dial in my wish list on Summit. Just discovered they no longer carry it BUT no one else does either. I can't find any posts about a substitute and I certainly don't want to spend $1200 for a new controls pack.. Does anyone know how people are now addressing the OSS/VSS conversion to the Gen 1 FR controls pack?

I certainly don't. Never installed a Gen 1, But have noticed the speed dial and apparently even the Gen 1 control packs are no longer available. I do recall seeing some builds posting that they were successful getting the Gen 1 stall condition the speed dial was supposed to solve resolved with a custom tune. Maybe that's something to check out.

[Blitzboy54]

Finally - big brakes AND wheels that fit. My FFR Halibrands will go up for sale soon......

FFR AP brakes 2015-11-07.jpg
FFR AP brakes wheels 2015-11-07.jpg

Oh Man, I bought those EXACT same wheels for mine in all black.


Great minds lol

[russelljones48]

These were required - although I like them a lot - to clear the AP brakes - much bigger caliper/rotor combo.. I may add color to the outside rim. I've picket the basic color - flat white with gloss black trim.. still debating if and what the accent colors will be

[russelljones48]

Paul,

Thanks. My research showed that a tune might be a possibility. I also had something like this suggested: I'd like to get firm confirmation on either or both.

Dakota Digital SGI 100BT

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dakota-Digi...257e%7Ciid%3A1

[russelljones48]

OH and I also find I'm in need of the motor mount spacers (they've been ordered from FFR) and the actual Ford motor mounts - my kit didn't come with either. I need the Ford make/model or part # for the mounts. They look like the SN95 DOHC mounts but I'm not 100%...so I'd like to confirm.

[russelljones48]

OK, of all of the problems that have surfaced since my restart here's what I've found or done.

1.) the GM/Corvette fuel regulator/filter isn't recommended solution: ordered the Aeromotive unit and an ISS mechanical FP Gauge (the only gauge that appears to be reliable. Still need a filter and may have to remote mount the gauge - all TBD
2.) motor mounts and spacers not in my kit. solution:they sell all the pieces but they're impossible to find on the web site. Thank goodness for a prompt email response from FFR staff - all ordered
3.) unavailable speed dial to resolve stalling issue on Gen 1 drivetrains. solution: this may not pan out but with some guidance from an ex Ford engineer and some research - here's what I've found. Ford uses their own frequency/signal for the ECU/controls pack. Tremec installs a manufacturer specific OSS sensor in the transmission. Mine is Ford Blue which (according to research) should generate the correct output to the control pack. I will confirm this if I can with Ford Tech support on Monday but at this point my guess is that I can wire directly to my Gen 1 control pack unless it's expecting something different - or the problem is something different than the signal/frequency from the speed sensor. I may be able to convert that if necessary with the above mentioned Dakota Digital unit.

So much for getting the engine in by Friday...

[Railroad]

Your tuner might be able to work around the lack of a speed dial.

[russelljones48]

So, after a lot of research and various email conversations here are my not so authoritative conclusions on the "speed dial".
Ford Racing no longer makes/markets a Speed Dial and the one they referred me too looks like their original OEM supplier.. It's an Abbot device. However, I'm going to buy a Dakota Digital unit which has more functionality and is almost 1/2 the price

So, here's my logic concerning VSS signals (VSS is an overall term that includes both ISS and OSS - took me a while to find that). Both signals are simply used to tell the ECM/TCM engine speed ISS) and/or driveshaft speed (OSS). The software can use it for many types of calculations. The FR Coyote ECM needs an output shaft signal. I still haven't figured out why it needs "conversion" on some of our cars but here's my logic.

OSS just transmits a frequency based on overall drivetrain "gearing" - represented by driveshaft speed - my TKO 600 has the Ford OSS sensor/connector
ECU/PCM uses the frequency to compute a number of things including vehicle speed
Therefore the ECU/PCM must have a number programmed as a base so it has a starting point (could be changed by a tuner/programer)
If that starting point has too much variance from what's coming from the OSS then
The PCM/ECU may alter throttle, AF ratios, etc. that are not appropriate for the actual speed of the vehicle - I guess in our case during very low speeds
This may be very vehicle dependent - i.e. a different reaction for a 4:10 or a 3:08 rear or cars with tire diameters that could throw it off.
Therefore a speed dial may not be needed if the "base number" is close, so some cars may have no problems

I conclude that I should at least plan for the installation of a frequency converter/speed dial? I could wire it in with zero conversion and see what happens.. and the Dakota Digital boxes seem to offer the most functionality and ease of "programming" would therefore be my logical choice. Dakota Digital has a good rep and functionality and price is quite good..

PLEASE anyone with more knowledge please chime in!! I'm certainly no EC/TCM expert..

[russelljones48]

So after a few years of working on other projects and cars I've started back on the FFR.. I've never been a very good or active poster but I've refined my selection criteria for posts and will probably only post things I've done that I hope will help others via my solutions as options. I've now pretty much completed the cooling system with a lot of help from EdwardB's builds - see pics. And the second "system" I'm now working on is the fuel system. I have the later Mustang parts (fuel tank and filler) which can have a return system as part of the stock components (from the '99 Mustang GT - the only year that had a stock return system) as well as a stock rollover valve in the filler tube. Several challenges and solutions have to do with the positon of the firewall and my desire to mount things on it and still have them serviceable or to locate them elsewhere. I've gotten a lot of tips and help from a local Mustang expert - a godsend. The location of the fuel regulator and the tip about the '99 return system came from him. Here's some pics with descriptions of what I did and why..

Lower hose. See Edwardb for part numbers - 2 different hoses spliced with alum. tubing - 270 degree mandrel bent alum. tube - purchased online with Gates heat shrink "clamps"

FFR upper hose and tank.jpg
FFR lower radiator hose.jpg

The tank in the other photo is a Dorman 603-298 (Rock auto $61) for a 2014 Mustang - it's braced on the bottom with an aluminum "U" channel to the X brace and mounted to a handmade steel bracket that, in turn, mounts to the 3/4" cross tube.

The next post will be the mounting for the fuel regulator and gauge...

[russelljones48]

So, here's the fuel regulator/gauge mount. This is due to my reluctance to locate anything that might require service on the firewall under the body lip. I saw this on a Mustang/Coyote conversion and it's similar mount has been running on that car for several years. I also confirmed with Aeromotive that the regulator can be mounted any way except upside down.. I probably won't be using the dress up kit but I think it could be easily modified to accomodate this set up if I wanted to install it.

FFR fuel reg. and gauge mount.jpg