Russ Thompson Turn Signal wiring

[Jdav]

I am wiring up the Russ Thompson Turn Signal and using the momentary stalk button to activate hi beam/low beam & Flash to pass with a Ron Francis harness.
I've looked through all of the diagrams provided and others I have found, but still unsure. Especially when it comes to what wires are feeding each relay.
Would appreciate confirmation from you guys that I am doing this right:

Feed:
Connect the RF gray TURN FLASHER FD wire to the Russ Thompson common larger Black wire

Left Turn:
Connect the RF green/yellow/green (LEFT FRONT TURN/LEFT REAR TURN/LEFT DASH IND LIGHT) bundle to the Russ Thompson Black-white wire

Right Turn:
Connect the RF blue/white/blue (RIGHT FRONT TURN/RIGHT REAR TURN/RIGHT DASH IND LIGHT) bundle to the Russ Thompson Black-green wire



Flasher on/off toggle switch:
Connect the RF pink HAZARD FLASHER wire to one spade of the switch
Add diodes to each then join and connect the RF blue RIGHT FRT TURN and green LEFT FRT TURN wires to the other spade of the switch


VW Relay:
Split out and connect the RF brown HI BEAM IND wire to 56a
Connect the RF red LOW BEAM wire to 56b
Connect the RF blue HDLT SW>DIM SW to both 56 and 30
Run a new wire from S to a diode, merge with a wire from 85 of Bosch relay and connect to one of the Russ Thompson smaller black wires



Bosch Relay (i am also using a relay plug):
Connect the other split of the RF brown HI BEAM IND wire to 30
Merge a wire with the one coming from S of the VW relay and connect to one of the Russ Thompson smaller black wires
Connect RF brown HIGH BEAM wire to both 86 and 87
87a is not used



Russ Thompson:
Ground the other small black wire

[NICK C]

Sounds good to me. I'm in the process myself and am trying to get confident in the procedure. Nick

[lahrs37]

I am going to lurk as I am doing the same right now and am definitely not sure what I am doing!

[RickP]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic


The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

[Jdav]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic


The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

Thanks RickP
I saw that one, but didn't really understand how those distribution blocks were set up. Are the inputs directly across from each other connected but the ones above and below isolated?

Any strong reason against just using butt connections with heat shrink?

[edwardb]

I saw that one, but didn't really understand how those distribution blocks were set up. Are the inputs directly across from each other connected but the ones above and below isolated?

Yes.

[RickP]

Any strong reason against just using butt connections with heat shrink?

Great debate going on in another thread currently regarding connectors etc. Everyone has an opinion on what's best.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-advice-please

For me personally, I did not use any type of butt connector. I soldered those type of connections and heat shrinked them. Just my own personal preference. Del City is a great source (EdwardB turned me on to this source quite some time ago) for any type of electrical component such as heat shrink, terminals, terminal blocks, distribution blocks etc.

And yes, to echo EdwardB's response to your other question on the terminal block. Whatever you feed going in one side, its the same going out on the other side. The terminals are connected from side to side underneath. With a simple jumper from terminal to another terminal (set), you eliminate the need to splice a wire. If you took the terminal (distribution) blocks out of the schematic RT provides, you would end up splicing a lot of wires together. Not a good way to go and over complicates an already complicated circuit.

Last, regarding jumpers. I made my own but they do make little metal jumpers. I didn't see any on Del City website specifically for their terminal blocks, but this is what I'm talking about. .

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...244-ND/2424514

Maybe Paul has a better source?

[lahrs37]

Wait, I think I answered my question. It is left alone, right?

[RickP]

Wait, I think I answered my question. It is left alone, right?

Laurence, are you using the Ron Francis harness? If you are, Ron provides a plug for it.

[Izzy]

Thanks RickP
I saw that one, but didn't really understand how those distribution blocks were set up. Are the inputs directly across from each other connected but the ones above and below isolated?

Any strong reason against just using butt connections with heat shrink?

Hello,
I've been following along here because we are at the same point in our build. A simple question: Looking at the Russ Thompson schematic, as shown in the post by "Rick P"... if you look at the circuit for the Left Turn signal we see a green wire (presumably carrying 12V) going to the distribution block, and from that point a wire going directly to the Turn Signal Indicator, and then to ground. A second wire from that point on the distribution block goes to the Russ Thompson assembly...but it appears to me that we already have a complete circuit to the Turn Indicator and then to ground...so, not sure why that light isn't constantly on.. I'm sure I'm missing something basic, here and hope someone can clarify-
Thanks!

[ckrueger]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic


The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

This is the diagram I used and it all worked great!! I also used distribution blocks and jumper wires.

[cfriedman67]

Appreciate the diagram. I hate to ask but what are distribution blocks? I have looked at your diagram many times. I am definitely electrically challenged and find this is the tuffest part. Do I need distribution blocks? Also, on the digram I don’t see the six pin hazard switch that I have anywhere on th diagram.

[lahrs37]

I have that diagram, but I can't figure out how the supplied FFR headlight switch plays into it.

[GFX2043mtu]

Leave the headlight seitch alone. As with most British cars I wired the momentary switch through a relay to work the horns. This also cleans up the dash a bit. Some have also used it as a flash to pass and wired it through a relay in conjunction to the high beam switch. As with all the functions of the turn signal kit you need to run it through a realay as the contacts with in it can't handle the current draw of what they are activating.

[lahrs37]

Well I managed to make it so only the brights work and the left turn signal is stuck on. Interestingly the right signal works as it is supposed to. No running lights at all and the hazards don't operate. I flipped the diodes just in case I installed them backwards, and rechecked the wires coming from the RT mechanism. Finally I just had to walk away. Hopefully when I come back with fresh eyes I will see something dumb and obvious!

[lahrs37]

What wire is "To headlight switch feed 2" in the RT diagram? There doesn't seem to be a corresponding wire on the RF side.

[Jdav]

What wire is "To headlight switch feed 2" in the RT diagram? There doesn't seem to be a corresponding wire on the RF side.

Lawrence, did you ever confirm what wire this was?

[edwardb]

What wire is "To headlight switch feed 2" in the RT diagram? There doesn't seem to be a corresponding wire on the RF side.

Lawrence, did you ever confirm what wire this was?

You won't find that wire in the RF harness. You need to add it. The added jumper wire provides the "always on" power for the flash to pass function.

[Jdav]

You won't find that wire in the RF harness. You need to add it. The added jumper wire provides the "always on" power for the flash to pass function.

Where do you jump it from?

[edwardb]

Where do you jump it from?

It's shown on the wiring diagram first shown in post #4. "Headlight switch 2" is a terminal on the headlight switch. Added jumper goes from there to the indicated terminal block on the wiring diagram.

[lahrs37]

Lawrence, did you ever confirm what wire this was?

edwardb explained it perfectly. I ended up simplifying my set up and got rid of the whole flash to pass thing. The dimmer switch ends up doing the same thing, so I mounted that close to the wheel. I would chime in about the turn signal wires and the hazard, but I ended up making a few mistakes and redoing a few things. I don't think I used the turn signal wires. Not sure about the extra hazard wire...

[edwardb]

Ducky2009 covered it. You just need an added hot wire from the headlight circuit to power the relay and light them when the headlight switch is off. There shouldn't be any extra wires. Everything is accounted for in the RF schematic plus the referenced schematic in post #4. As I recall, the indicator light wires are specifically marked as such.

edwardb explained it perfectly. I ended up simplifying my set up and got rid of the whole flash to pass thing. The dimmer switch ends up doing the same thing, so I mounted that close to the wheel.

Not sure I understand this. Flash to pass means pushing the high beam switch with the lights off flashes the high beams on/off. A particularly annoying thing I don't appreciate when people do it to me BTW. Not the same thing as switching back and forth between low and high beam when the lights are already on.

[Jdav]

Ducky2009 covered it. You just need an added hot wire from the headlight circuit to power the relay and light them when the headlight switch is off. There shouldn't be any extra wires. Everything is accounted for in the RF schematic plus the referenced schematic in post #4. As I recall, the indicator light wires are specifically marked as such.

OK, so cut the additional hot (red) wire from the headlight switch and split it into 2 (one remaining run to wherever it is run to in the harness and the second, new one to my terminal block)?

Re: extra wires, from the RF harness, I have these bundles of wires that are for right front turn/right rear turn/right turn indicator (BLUE/WHITE/BLUE) and left front turn/left rear turn/left turn indicator (GREEN/YELLOW/GREEN) that i was gong to connect to the terminal block as shown.


But then I also have a separate single wire for Left Front Turn and Right Front Turn that I cant find in the schematic

[lahrs37]

Ducky2009 covered it. You just need an added hot wire from the headlight circuit to power the relay and light them when the headlight switch is off. There shouldn't be any extra wires. Everything is accounted for in the RF schematic plus the referenced schematic in post #4. As I recall, the indicator light wires are specifically marked as such.



Not sure I understand this. Flash to pass means pushing the high beam switch with the lights off flashes the high beams on/off. A particularly annoying thing I don't appreciate when people do it to me BTW. Not the same thing as switching back and forth between low and high beam when the lights are already on.

Yes, you are totally correct! In Philly, because the roads are so little there are many times on "2 way roads" that only one person can fit so we flash our lights to indicate the other person goes. Because of the whole no-roof thing I can simply wave people on, so that isn't an issue.

[Papa]

lights off[/U] flashes the high beams on/off.

Flash to pass is a helpful feature in my neck of the woods to warn on-coming drivers of deer or antelope near the road. In Germany when driving on the autobahn, if you see lights flashing in your rearview mirror, you better get over to the right lane or risk being run over by someone driving much faster than you.

A driver's favorite sign:
autobahn-end-of-restrictions-sign.jpg

[BEAR-AvHistory]

For those of us that are wiring challenged there are spring loaded self centering "on off on" switches with long stems available to use as turn signal controllers.

[lahrs37]

Quick update (should I start a new thread?) I went to start troubleshooting today and noticed the headlights no longer came on at all. Then I noticed the VW relay was smoking. I quickly disconnected it and burned the #$_& out of my fingers in the process. I checked​ my fuses and I have blown several. Obviously I am not fit to be doing this. I am going to go get new fuses and see how I can simplify this circuit. I really don't need flash to pass - that can just be a dead button. Probably better than setting my car on fire...

[phileas_fogg]

You can do this. But remember that blown fuses indicate a problem and are not a problem themselves. Cliche advice, but it's good advice: one circuit at a time, figure out what's going wrong that caused the fuse to blow. Make one change & test it before making any other changes. When you're tired of chasing electrons, work on something else. It's not like you don't have other stuff you can do!


John

[lahrs37]

You can do this. But remember that blown fuses indicate a problem and are not a problem themselves. Cliche advice, but it's good advice: one circuit at a time, figure out what's going wrong that caused the fuse to blow. Make one change & test it before making any other changes. When you're tired of chasing electrons, work on something else. It's not like you don't have other stuff you can do!


John

That is great advice John. I traced the problem to the unused Hot Rod section of the RF harness. I had clipped it and wrapped it, but hadn't isolated the individual wires. Progress!

[Ducky2009]

Jdav, Lahr37, On the light harness plug, both red wires are hot with ignition off (master switch on). You can use either one to feed the Bosch relay, terminals 86 & 87, but make sure you use the same wire size as the feed to the switch...... You are using this feed to flash the lights.

The solo wires, left and right turn go to the dash (speedo) turn-indicator lights. You do not need diodes on the turn indicator lights (per the RT instructions) because each light in an individual (isolated) light bulb. The double turn signal wires and the double pink hazard flasher wires go to the hazard flasher switch (center connectors). Because the switch is a double pole, single throw, again, you do not need diodes. If you connect the turn wires to the bottom terminals of the switch, the hazard lights will work when the switch is flipped up.

NOTE: The diode between the VW and Bosch relays is needed. I wired per RT instructions (less four diodes) and everything works, including flash to pass. If you have questions, email me.

[Ducky2009]

Jdav, Lahr37, The solo wires, left and right turn go to the dash (speedo) turn-indicator lights....

I miss spoke here. The turn indicator (dash indicator lights) are marked as such. The single and multi wires go to the RT turn signal switch and hazard switch as described before.

[Jdav]

I miss spoke here. The turn indicator (dash indicator lights) are marked as such. The single and multi wires go to the RT turn signal switch and hazard switch as described before.

So even though the single wires are marked as FRT, they actually connect to the rear as well?
Meaning I could connect the single wires to my terminal instead of making the run highlighted in red in the attached?
2014-02-17RTschematic_zps9e735dd2[1].jpg

[Ducky2009]

So even though the single wires are marked as FRT, they actually connect to the rear as well?
Meaning I could connect the single wires to my terminal instead of making the run highlighted in red in the attached?
2014-02-17RTschematic_zps9e735dd2[1].jpg

Yes. The single blue wire (FRT) is one-in-the-same of the blue wires in the multi wire connection. The attached wiring schematics from RT is easier to understand IMO. If you unwrap the turn signal harness wires it will be much easier to see/understand.
ALSO: Because the turn indicator lights are two separate bulbs (instead of one in the RT instructions) you don't need diodes (2) on the indicator lights. Also, because the hazard switch is a single throw, double pole switch (isolating each side of the switch) you don't need diodes (2) for the hazard switch. Only one diode between the VW and Bosch relays is needed.

RT Turn Signal Wiring.jpg

[Dan Ng]

I'm wiring up the Russ Thompson turn signal as shown in the wiring diagram in this post. There's one wire I'm confused about. There's a wire going to "headlight switch feed 2". What's the purpose of this? I powered up the system and everything works including the turn signals, the hazards and the high beam button on the steering column. Is this to allow me to flash my high beams without the lights being on?

[edwardb]

Yes to the first part. That works. Not sure I can explain about the extra wires. Any chance these are are from the Hot Rod harness? That's an extra leg that's also in the harness that can be left as is or many of us just prune it off.

[Jdav]

Yes to the first part. That works. Not sure I can explain about the extra wires. Any chance these are are from the Hot Rod harness? That's an extra leg that's also in the harness that can be left as is or many of us just prune it off.

I pruned off the leg that was labeled "Hot Rod", these are in the leg that all of the other lighting wiring is in. I guess I'll just cap them and wire tie them out of the way.

Thanks for all of your help on this. I'm sure I sound like an idiot at times, but I'd rather get confirmation from the experts and do it right the first time than guess and have to re-work.

[Ducky2009]

Joel,
Here's the info I promised you. Wiring per the Coyote Fitment - Roadster manual (page 74) will eliminate the inertia switch. The attached pic is from an older manual, but it too is wrong. See pic for how to wire and keep inertia switch in operation.


Fuel Pump Wiring.png

[Jdav]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

[edwardb]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

Yes. Wired per post #4, a SPST is used for the hazards. Closing the two wires completes the circuits for the pink hazard feed to supply +12V to the turns signals on all four corners. The diodes prevent the hazard circuit from backfeeding into the turn signal circuit.

[Ducky2009]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

Joel, if you wire per the FFR instructions, Chassis Wiring Harness, page 29, and use a DPST switch (supplied), you don't need diodes in the circuit. One less thing to go wrong in the system.