Gator's 818R

[Dave 53]

I work on ships, so a ballast tank has a different meaning for me.

Are you suggesting having the water make a stop in a separate tank?

[lance corsi]

Just asking, if using an awic, how large is your water tank? My book says that in order to prevent premature heat soak, the water tank should be sized according to amount of wot. May not be practical for racing but just asking. If you’re using an air to air intercooler, never mind.

[Hobby Racer]

Just my $0.02

I work on ships, so a ballast tank has a different meaning for me.
Are you suggesting having the water make a stop in a separate tank?

Yes, a separate tank to hold additional cooled water after the AWIC radiator. The idea being a larger mass of water takes longer to heat soak. However, if your AWIC radiator is sufficiently large and or efficient, you do not need a ballast tank as the water exiting the radiator is near ambient temp and the holding tank is just extra weight.

Just asking, if using an awic, how large is your water tank? My book says that in order to prevent premature heat soak, the water tank should be sized according to amount of wot. May not be practical for racing but just asking. If you’re using an air to air intercooler, never mind.

I do not run a separate ballast tank. Just the water in the AWIC, radiator and lines.

[Sgt.Gator]

Dave I'll post some pics of the radiator and FMIC soon.
Lance, I run a FMIC. Much simpler and more efficient for road racing. Completely impractical if you have doors though!

[Sgt.Gator]

Sunday was our last race of the weekend in SPM. I was looking forward to Jeff running the Retro Racing RX7 in the SPM race and he even qualified with the fastest closed wheel time of all cars over the whole weekend. But Retro chose not to come out in the afternoon heat, their RX7 is vying for the championship in a different class so they are saving it for the last races in that series.
Retros RX7:
Terry RX7.jpg

The race only had 2 SPM cars, myself and a BMW E46. But Group 1 also includes Pro3 a mostly PacNW regional class of spec BMW E30s, and we had 24 of them. Imagine a Spec Miata field with more speed and power! Their Pro3 class has a reputation of aggressive driving, contact, and a bit of red mist attitude. They were to show that all again.
When we start in Group1 they split the start so the SPM cars are about 10 seconds in front of the Pro3 cars. Otherwise I wouldn't race in SPM!

I qualified P2 next to the E46 in P1. The reason for P2 was my old Hoosier tire had failed internally and I had a huge bulge under the tread in the qualifying session, I only did the first lap then pulled back into the paddock. I knew something was very wrong.

At the green flag I got the jump and went into the lead, however in classic Pro3 fashion somehow one of them must have been bumped/clipped going down the front straight and hit the wall. That brought out the pace car for several laps. On the restart I again stayed in front but I screwed up Turn 4 and lost too much speed. The other SPM car passed me and now because of the restart the Pro3 cars are right on me, one of them passed me and all the rest are right on my tail. One of them too much on my tail! The Pro3 guys have stout front and rear bumpers and they use them on each other to nudge. Well my818 has no rear bumper but the Pro3 guy on my tail is so used to "nudging" he tried it on me, 3 times going around Turn 8. The first two were just touches I could feel, but the third was aggressive and smashed my rear fiberglass, sending the rear mesh screen flying and jamming a chunk of fiberglass into my shifter. Amazingly I could still shift ok. The offending driver knew he had gone way too far with his driving and immediately drops off to finish 8th. He normally podiums. In the melee I couldn't see for sure who had hit me, but unfortunately for him I run my #2 Video Vbox camera facing rearwards and captured the entire thing. The race stewards reviewed the video and promptly assessed him a fine for Avoidable Contact.

I went on to repass the E46 in the next lap, setting the fast lap of the race at the same time.

NWMS Group1 Friday Qlispe 2023.jpgQlispe 2023 Race Hero SPM Sunday Results.jpgFriday SPM 818.jpg

3 days, 4 races, 4 wins. I'm putting together a video compilation of the weekend I'll post up here in a few days.

In the meantime I have to fix the damage and come up with better protection around my shift mechanism and tranny. I'm lucky he didn't smash the shifter so badly that it could have trashed the tranny internally. In the next post I'll show the damage and what I've done so far towards my new rear end. I'm not going to replace the fiberglass, I like the new 'style" bodywork, and it may even be faster!

[Sgt.Gator]

The damage:

PXL_20230731_200906909.jpgPXL_20230731_200923551.jpgPXL_20230731_200930912.jpgPXL_20230731_201010803.jpgPXL_20230731_201022220.jpg

[Sgt.Gator]

The damage cut away, and planning the new rear end protection. Your thoughts on how to protect the shifter/tranny/tranny cooler pump are welcome!

PXL_20230802_014758380.jpgPXL_20230802_014810211.jpg

[Hobby Racer]

The damage:

PXL_20230731_200906909.jpgPXL_20230731_200923551.jpgPXL_20230731_200930912.jpgPXL_20230731_201010803.jpgPXL_20230731_201022220.jpg

Damm! Sorry about the damage. It's always a bummer when someone else breaks your toys!

[Sgt.Gator]

Dave 53 here's my hood vents, partial view of the FMIC piping, and radiator ducting:
PXL_20230802_194530572.jpgPXL_20230802_194650642.jpgPXL_20230802_194701984.jpgPXL_20230802_194720467.jpg

[Sgt.Gator]

And here's my FMIC - Radiator - Ducting looking thru the grill opening in the front:

PXL_20230802_195235216.jpgPXL_20230802_195250491.jpgPXL_20230802_195257886.jpgPXL_20230802_195316154.jpgPXL_20230802_195325685.jpg

[Dave 53]

Does the multiple feet of intake pipe cause any throttle response lag?

Last night, I finished sealing up my radiator ducting. Not as inspiring as your job! But, I'm very happy with it. Except I used a bit of Gorilla duct tape. I'm rethinking Gorilla tape after seeing your pictures.

[Sgt.Gator]

The gorilla duct tape is probably better than this super thin aluminum tape. Mine is torn in several places and needs to be replaced.

On the lag, it's negligible to where it's not the slightest factor. In road racing you are almost always at 4,000 + rpm so there's no long wait for the turbo to spool and the line to pressurize. As I approach the apex, or clipping point, which may be different from the geometrical apex, I'm already cracking the throttle open. Post apex by the time the car has straightened out enough to go full throttle at the exit the turbo is fully engaged and the the lines are at full pressure. If I hit the throttle too soon while still doing some lateral Gs the tail will walk out into a spin in a heartbeat. There's no more power needed.
Some folks say the long IC pipes are a good thing, they turn the air charge into a kind of "spring" that makes like easier on the blow off valve and throttle. I haven't spent much time researching that idea.

[Sgt.Gator]

I welded a steel cage behind the rear end and transmission. The three horizontal bars are aluminum tube bolted to the steel cage. The theory being they will crush a bit in a "hard nudge", and are very easy to replace. I'm sticking with the rear bumper cut style, but I'm probably going to fully flat bottom it with a diffuser. After further review of the 818R aero I don't think my rea wing is doing a dang thing besides creating drag. I'll try it with and without the rear wing at PIR this coming weekend.

Rear End Cage Bash Bar 2023.jpg


Ready to race again this weekend at Portland International!

[Hobby Racer]

... After further review of the 818R aero I don't think my rea wing is doing a dang thing besides creating drag. I'll try it with and without the rear wing at PIR this coming weekend.

Very interested in your findings! My wing creates huge drag down the straights at Watkins Glen.

[Rob T]

Gator/Hobby: Sorry for the Hijack, but I'm interested in your wing set ups. I am running mine "flat", or at least as close to zero angle as I can figure with the complex shape. At some point I did these calculations for the GTC-300 wing. AOA: angle of attack. Top Row is speed in mph. Then downforce, drag, and the ratio of the two. Kind of a funky excel paste....

NEWTONS Pounds force
DOWNFORCE DOWNFORCE
AOA 80 100 120 AOA 80 100 120
0 672.5 1,058.0 1,533.9 0 151.2 237.8 344.8
5 816.6 1,286.9 1,864.4 5 183.6 289.3 419.1
10 897.6 1,406.0 2,036.2 10 201.8 316.1 457.7
12 903.5 1,417.8 2,049.4 12 203.1 318.7 460.7

DRAG 80 100 120 DRAG 80 100 120
0 76.2 120.0 174.4 0 17.1 27.0 39.2
5 100.3 158.3 230.3 5 22.5 35.6 51.8
10 125.3 197.4 286.9 10 28.2 44.4 64.5
12 134.3 211.6 307.5 12 30.2 47.6 69.1


Down/Drag 80 100 120 Down/Drag 80 100 120
0 8.8 8.8 8.8 0 8.8 8.8 8.8
5 8.1 8.1 8.1 5 8.1 8.1 8.1
10 7.2 7.1 7.1 10 7.2 7.1 7.1
12 6.7 6.7 6.7 12 6.7 6.7 6.7

[Sgt.Gator]

The Gen 1 Nose had an option to cut out "brake ducts". The original builder of my car had done that. We installed real front brake ducts that don't utilize the FF duct holes, for several reasons.
In looking closer at my aero I realized those Gen 1 holes must be creating big time drag. They open into a space in front of the tires that has no real direct flow towards the brakes, the aluminum fender liner mostly obstructs flow. Looking at the tire rubber and bug strikes on the outside edge was interesting:

Gen 1 Nose Brake Duct.jpg

I decided to blank off these holes:

Gen 1 Nose Brake Duct Blanked Off.jpg

Next race at Portland International this weekend.

[Rob T]

Gator: I actually did duct air to my brakes from those holes, but I am interested to see what your changes do. Did you decide what you are going to do with your wing for sure? Take it off or change the AOA?

[Sgt.Gator]

Rob I've adjusted the wing AOA (the center flat section) as close to 0 as I can get. It's still about 3 degrees. My wing is super easy to quick change so I'll run the first morning Qualifying session wing on, the afternoon Race wing on. Then late afternoon is Qualifying for the Sunday morning Enduro, for that I'll take the wing off. The car should be slower in the late afternoon heat, but if I'm faster I'll leave the wing off for the Sunday morning 1 hour enduro.
After the Enduro I have a qualifying session for the final Sprint race, then the race itself. I'll probably split those two with a wing on and wing off just to verify what I'm seeing. Of course all these plans could go out the window too based on results and circumstances.

I think to get the wing to actually have an effect it needs to be a foot higher and and a lot wider for clean air. My halo cage has to be extremely disruptive, the regular R roll bar is bad enough. The problem with going wider wing is not in the rules (I'm basically in an unlimited class) but rather running into the wing while working around the car. It would have to be easy to remove too. If I go that route I'll get a big Wang from 9 Lives Racing.

However I think there is a lot more to be gained for a lot less $$$ by optimizing the flat floor. We are lucky to already have a nearly flat floor. It shouldn't be too hard or expensive do a better splitter, flat floor the engine area, and a diffuser. Done right the flat floor can create enormous downforce without a big drag penalty.

[Hobby Racer]

Very interested to see the wing vs no wing effect. I have been hesitant to run without the rear wing for fear of losing the rear end in the high speed turns at Watkins Glen. I can run triple digit speeds in some of the corners.

[Sgt.Gator]

Very interested to see the wing vs no wing effect. I have been hesitant to run without the rear wing for fear of losing the rear end in the high speed turns at Watkins Glen. I can run triple digit speeds in some of the corners.

I ran the Group 1 Qualifying in the morning, and the Race right after lunch, with the wing. Late in the day at 4Pm I did the Enduro Qualifying without the wing. It wasn't apples to aples because the track and air were pretty cool in the morning, but by 4 PM it was over 90 (and Sunday hit 102). So naturally the late afternoon would be slightly slower because of the heat.

My fastest lap times were almost the same, but how I got there was quite different. With the wing I was hitting about 117 on the front straight and 125 on the back straight. Without the wing I was 119 Front and 128 back. There was little appreciable difference in speed until about 85 mph, then the wingless setup would accelerate 1-2-3 mph faster on up to the brake zone. Score 1 without the wing.

Mid speed corners of 60-70 mph and high speed corners 70-90 mph the winged car was faster by 2-3 mph.

Low speed corners of 35-50 mph the wingless was very slightly faster. I assume because of not having the weight of the wing up in the air at the tail of the car. Not enough to really matter.

Braking: The car was significantly more confidence inspiring with the wing. I could brake later and harder without the the tail moving around on me.

All in the winged car was about 1/2 second faster than the wingless car. Except the wingless car was running on a much hotter track. This mirrors the findings from a post further back in this thread where I came to the same conclusions on the same track. The question becomes what would happen if the wingless car had been running in the cool air and the winged car was in the heat? That will have to be answered at a much later date.

Because in the Sunday morning Enduro the transmission came apart! I had done 30 mins and come in for my mandatory 60 second pit stop. On exiting pit lane on to the track doing about 40mph I hit the accelerator and BANG. The case cracked. In the pic you can see a crooked black line. That's not a drawing of a line, it's the actual crack.
PIR Cracked Transmission Enduro Sunday.jpg

My first thought was weak 5 speed case. Then I realized that when the Pro3 hit me in the tail at the last race it probably did internal damage that took an hour or so of racing to finally blow apart. I haven't pulled the AIM data to look at the logged trans temps yet, but from the smell of the oil I'm sure it cooked from some internal friction. I'll pull the data soon and have a look.

Meanwhile I'm busy getting my STI up to track ready for the last sprint race weekend of the season at The Ridge in Shelton WA this coming weekend.

[Hobby Racer]

Good information about the aero effects. BTW, were you running the rear diffusor during those tests? How about the front splitter, any differences between winged and no wing runs?

Sorry about the 5MT. Are you planning to stick with the 5 speed or swap to a 6MT?

[Dave 53]

Bummer about the transmission. Did it make any noises before it blew up? I have a 5 speed case you can have if we can figure out how to get it to you from Danville CA.

[Rob T]

Gator: Sorry about the 5MT. I am very interested in your wing work. I have had a few issues with snap oversteer (maybe my slow reaction or wet track) accelerating out of long sweepers. I also may not be keeping the engine in the proper RPM range and getting hammered when the turbo boosts. But....directionally, the wing would seem to help, both from the down force and the side plates.

Can you describe, a bit more, your comments about braking and being more confidence inspiring? What type of movement did you feel without the wing.

Just to confirm, were you running a zero angle of attack? I know the wing will still provide downforce because of its complex shape.

[Sgt.Gator]

Good information about the aero effects. BTW, were you running the rear diffusor during those tests? How about the front splitter, any differences between winged and no wing runs?

Sorry about the 5MT. Are you planning to stick with the 5 speed or swap to a 6MT?

Front splitter stayed the same. No rear diffuser. From the firewall back it is open. Over the winter I'm looking at full flat bottom with a diffuser. I'm reluctant because I flat-bottomed the STI which really effected the underhood and underfloor temps negatively. I've spent so much time getting all the temps under control in the 818R I don't want to screw that up.
I'm also working my way thru a suspension course that looks like I need to make some changes in my spring rates. More on that later.

Bummer about the transmission. Did it make any noises before it blew up? I have a 5 speed case you can have if we can figure out how to get it to you from Danville CA.

Thanks for the offer. No noises. But between the electric fuel pump next to me, the oil and trans cooler fans, and the trans cooler pump, the exhaust, and the intake up by my right ear, it would have to be exceptionally loud to hear it.
I have a spare LGT core and Retro has a spare LGT core they aren't using anymore with their K24 swap, so I'm covered, thanks.

Regarding gearing, there was a shining moment last weekend when I had my best race start ever. I qualified 5th in the SPM class. As we come on to the front straight I can't see the Start/Finish stand so I move a little right so I can see the green flag drop:



From 5th to 1st at the start finish line! Eventually P1 & P2 pass me and I end up in a nose to tail race with Pete Bristow in the #68 E46. We had a great race, I really like racing with him. I held him and the P3 & P4 cars off to take 3rd.
Clearly I have the trans gearing and the power level right. Now I need to develop the suspension and downforce.

[FFRWRX]

You really leave them in the dust on the straights!

[Sgt.Gator]

The ring & pinion were trashed! When they let go it cracked the case. Thanks to Retro Racing I have their Type RA 5 speed installed and ready to hit the track this weekend. To get the old tranny out we had to cut away my bash bars, which have now been greatly simplified. The tranny cooler is all connected and ready to test. The filter on the cooler line saved the cooler and pump from the debris destroying them.
At the same time I took the opportunity redo the spring rates. I've been working thru a couple of suspension courses and came to the conclusion that my roll couple and front spring hertz was way off. I've now swapped the front springs for 900 lb ones. 700 rear. I'll be testing the new setup at ORP this Saturday. Frankly it sounds nuts but that's what the spreadsheet suggests. Actually more than that!
IF all goes well I may be racing it at the 2-4-8 hour Cascade Enduro at PIR on Oct 14th. I'll be paddocked there with Retro but it appears their 818K24 is not yet ready to race, they will have their K24Miata. If it's raining like it often does in Portland in October I'll take the STI.

818R Corner Balance 9-2023 4.jpg818R Corner Balance 9-2023 3.jpg818R Corner Balance 9-2023 2.jpg818R Corner Balance 9-2023 1.jpgRear Bash Bar and RA trans Sept 2023.jpg

[Sgt.Gator]

The 818 ran very well at ORP. The new to me trans shifted great although I have to consciously make the 4-5 shift because it's pretty easy to go 4-3 instead. I never money shifted it but I can see how it could happen.
The 900LB front springs seemed to tame the snap mid corner oversteer. It will still try to spin if I'm not judicious with the throttle, but I was able to catch the beginning of the spins and straighten it out without exiting the track surface. So my springs are Front 900lbs, Rear 700lbs.
Logged temps were great. The Trans, Coolant, and Oil were all in the 170-190 range. It was a cool day with 60 degree air and 100 degree track temps.
We also did tire pyrometer testing on the suspension setup. I never got the R7s up to their Hoosier recommended 180-200 degree window range. And the inside of the front and rear right side tires was running a little too hot compared to the middle and outside. I probably won't make any changes to the camber until next year, I'll go with the way it is setup for the Cascade Enduro in 2 weeks. We'll do some tire temp testing there during the practice session.
It's so nice not to be worrying about overheating the engine and the transmission anymore. Now I can actually do some race suspension and tire tuning.
ORP Testing Sept 30 2023 new trans and front springs 2.jpg.....ORP Testing Sept 30 2023 new trans and front springs 3.jpg

My friend Jack had this issue in his BMW. He was going up Valkyrie Hill when both sides of his seat bracket broke and rocked him back! Jack is over 70 years old and weighs maybe 145 lbs, so it's not like he overpowered the brackets. I've never seen this failure before:

Jacks SEAT SIDE MOUNT BRACKET Break 1.jpg......Jacks SEAT SIDE MOUNT BRACKET break 2.jpg

[Hobby Racer]

I've never seen a seat bracket beak like that before. Must be metal fatigue from years of lateral G's flexing it ever so slightly.

[Dave 53]

Glad to hear you had a good day at the track. I've forgotten what that feels like. Wanting to make it out to Thunderhill on Monday, but my The Driveshaft Shop axles still haven't shipped, so I'm losing hope.

I too am still getting use to the 6 speed. I will second how deliberate that 4 - 5 shift has to be.

I have done a money shift, but it was easy enough to immediately get the clutch in. But, it slipped into 3rd gear no problem. And I also had 2 cases where I thought it was in 5th, but it wasn't fully in 5th and popped back out. The gear change became very deliberate after those 3 events. After, I also adjusted my linkage for maximum left / right throw to further differentiate 3rd from 5th.

I'm told the 6 speed can be driven without a reverse lockout, but having it makes a huge difference in the 4 - 5 shift. My reverse lock-out next to my knee isn't spring loaded, so I have to push it back in to lock out reverse. You can see me double checking it in the video.

The video doesn't do justice to how deliberate the movement has to be. Find neutral, full movement to the right, up and make sure 5th is fully engaged. I'm assuming over time it will become second nature.

My next 4 -5 shift later in this lap broke the axle.

[Sgt.Gator]

Dave, I can't see your video. It says Video unavailable. This video is private.

[Dave 53]

Dave, I can't see your video. It says Video unavailable. This video is private.

Public now.

I was so hyper aware of those 4 - 5 shifts and noted it in this video after seeing it. Just made me think of it when you mentioned it.

And I finally figured out how my video editing software works! Guess I'm still learning YouTube.

Wish a kept the evidence of my money shift and ineffective popping out of 5th gear shifts, but I deleted them out of embarrassment and to free up memory space.

[Rob T]

I wasted a whole track day before I put the reverse lockout on my "new" 6 speed. It was impossible to reliably find and stay in 5th gear. To be extra confident of the lock out, mine is actuated by a locking T-handle on the left side of the driver's cockpit. It locks in both positions with a twist and provides visual reference for what position it's in.

[Sgt.Gator]

Just to clarify for readers here, I'm running the 5 speed tranny. The one I have in here now is a type RA with the male stub CV axles and a LSD.

[Sgt.Gator]

Falling under the heading, the mystery that will not be solved....We are prepping the STI for the Cascade Enduro in case the weather turns nasty. (If it's great weather we are taking the 818R). All year we've had issues with cyl misfire codes in the STI. In the past the codes were caused by over winter gas + Boostane fouling the sparkplugs. So every spring we swap in new plugs. But this year we kept getting cyl misfire cels. We swapped in new plugs again in June but I got Cyl3 cel a couple of weeks ago at The Ridge. We also do compression checks after almost every race. So we pulled the plugs and checked the compression, it's fine. New plugs again. But this time we noticed this:
Coil Connector Zip 2023.jpg

WTF!?! Who "fixed" a failing coil connector with a zip tie? No one knows. It's possibly been there a long time, you don't have to disconnect the plug to pull the coils and do compression and plug swaps. And the connector looks toasted. It might be heat from the downpipe, or it might be the coil is going bad.

iWire has a blog post about using zip ties to "fix" a failed connector and a YouTube on how to replace it. https://iwireusa.com/blogs/iwire-uni...oil-pack-plugs

The fix: We've ordered iWire connector replacements, new coils, and new plugs for all 4 cylinders.

[lpmagruder]

I'm guilty of doing the exact thing on my 03. I ordered a replacement harness section the day I zip tied it. I think it only took me 2 years to complete the repair, mostly because I had the motor out for other reasons :-).

[Dave 53]

I was unaware of the iWire fix until now. Thanks Sgt.Gator.

I had a zip tie. It seemed ready to fall off and temporary. Then I made a baling wire repair that I consider permanent. I'll even argue that it is more robust than the plastic clip.

Seems like after the zip tie was invented, everyone forgot about baling wire.

The main advantage is I can truly say my car is held together with baling wire and duct tape.

[Sgt.Gator]

My coil connector harness wires are also a not so good repair probably at the same time as the zip tie fix. The wires are getting brittle. So we are cutting them out farther upstream in the harness and replacing them with better ones.

[Sgt.Gator]

Due to the forecast weather conditions we took the STI instead of the 818R to the 2-4-8 Hour Cascade Enduro.










We won First Place in our class in the 8 Hour Enduro at PIR. Two years in a row we have finished the entire 8 hour race and won our class. Like last year our main competitor's car broke down after they finished the 4 hour. Unlike every other year it finally rained. What a difference that made! Cars, some very, very, fast ones that had been lapping us all day weren't able to handle the rain. For 2 hours not a single car passed us, and we passed a bunch of them, including the Saker several times. And we stayed on slicks. It's a racing memory I'll have forever.
Thanks to Subaru of Bend for your support!
Retro Racing it was great partnering with you again in the paddock.
And thanks to Arcflash for your fabrication support and tuning.

[Sgt.Gator]

For mid engine Subaru power folks: We raced against a Saker that came down from Canada. It has a 2L EJ with 285 HP. Sequential trans. Pretty dang fast on old tires. I'd like to see it on fresh A7s. He won the overall race. But it was sure fun passing him in the rain!
BTW, wet sump. Baffled, with a custom wet sump pan that is extra wide extensions on both sides. Possible because the headers go straight back. I'm still amazed he hasn't blown the engine though. He says oil pressure is never a problem...

[Rob T]

Congratulations Gator. I just wish you weren't out on the left coast so we could see you "live" at some events in the East. You are an inspiration to me, and I am sure many others. You and your team have also spearheaded many of the innovations that keep the rest of us on the track.