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Thread: Signal Dynamics Self-Canceling Turn Signal Module Question

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    Papa's Avatar
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    Signal Dynamics Self-Canceling Turn Signal Module Question

    I'd like to wire in the SDC Self-Canceling Turn Signal Module but have a question. Can I use this for just the turn signals, not the hazards by swapping out my turn signal switch with a momentary SPDT toggle wired to the SDC module?

    Thanks,
    Dave
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    I'm not sure about that arrangement. I can offer you what I did in my build. I used a 2 position momentary (on)-off-(on) for my turn signal, and ran jumper wires to the hazard switch. This is because both wires need to be energized for the signal module to turn on the hazards.

    It may not be what you need, but here is how I wired it. I cannot find the electronic copy of how the hazard switch is wired, but I'm pretty sure I used the one from FFR.

    See attached.FFR 6882 WIRING PAGE 3.pdf
    Dave
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    Papa,
    I've used the SD module on a few cars (it's always worked flawlessly by the way) and need to think on doing it as you suggest but why not just let the module activate your flashers as well? To do so with the SPDT momentary all you need to do is to run another pigtail off of both the left and right trigger then connect one to each pole of an on/off switch. When the switch is off they are isolated for turn signal function; when the switch is on they are joined together and activating either direction on your SPDT witt put it into 4 way flasher mode. Easy peasy!

    Jeff

    EDIT: I see that Dad of Three Dave answered with his method while I was typing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DadofThree View Post
    I'm not sure about that arrangement. I can offer you what I did in my build. I used a 2 position momentary (on)-off-(on) for my turn signal, and ran jumper wires to the hazard switch. This is because both wires need to be energized for the signal module to turn on the hazards.

    It may not be what you need, but here is how I wired it. I cannot find the electronic copy of how the hazard switch is wired, but I'm pretty sure I used the one from FFR.

    See attached.FFR 6882 WIRING PAGE 3.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Papa,
    I've used the SD module on a few cars (it's always worked flawlessly by the way) and need to think on doing it as you suggest but why not just let the module activate your flashers as well? To do so with the SPDT momentary all you need to do is to run another pigtail off of both the left and right trigger then connect one to each pole of an on/off switch. When the switch is off they are isolated for turn signal function; when the switch is on they are joined together and activating either direction on your SPDT witt put it into 4 way flasher mode. Easy peasy!

    Jeff

    EDIT: I see that Dad of Three Dave answered with his method while I was typing!
    Thanks, guys. This sounds simple enough. Do I need to remove the flashers or disconnect and terminate the existing hazard switch/wires?

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    Papa's Avatar
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    DadofThree,

    Thanks for the schematic. I ordered a different SDC module than the one in the schematic, so here is my amateurish edited version for the SDC 01501.



    I'm still assuming that with this setup, I should pull the flashers out of the fuse panel and disconnect the current hazard switch since the SDC module controls all the flashing functions for both the turn signals and hazards.

    All you automotive electrical gurus, please set me straight on anything I've overlooked or made incorrect assumptions on.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 01-30-2019 at 08:11 PM.
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    I set mine up exactly as Jeff indicated above. To answer your question about the flashers, I removed both flasher units (hazards and turn signals) and shorted the terminals in the front of the fuse panel so the current would flow straight through to the lights. If i had easier access to the back of my RF fuse panel, I just would have cut the wires and done it there. The only question I would have for your diagram is why are you adding an inline fuse to the 12V source? You can just use what naturally came with the RF harness. Use the Hazard feed (pink) if you want it to run all the time, or the turn signal feed (grey) if you want it to be keyed.
    Last edited by CFranks; 01-11-2019 at 06:31 PM.

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    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFranks View Post
    I set mine up exactly as Jeff indicated above. To answer your question about the flashers, I removed both flasher units (hazards and turn signals) and shorted the terminals in the front of the fuse panel so the current would flow straight through to the lights. If i had easier access to the back of my RF fluse block, I just would have cut the wires and done it there. The only question I would have for your diagram is why are you adding an inline fuse to the 12V source? You can just use what naturally came with the RF harness. Use the Hazard feed if you want it to run all the time, or the turn signal feed f you want it to be keyed.
    Thanks for the info on the flashers. That's pretty much what I expected. Did you just create jumpers with spade connectors and a short piece of wire? As for the fuse, that was in the diagram DadofThree provided and is consistent with the SDC install sheet I found on their web site. It can't hurt to add a fuse. I'll likely use the electric choke circuit to power the SDC module. Before I wire the new hazard switch, I may try the SDC module with just the turn signals and keep the hazards on the existing circuit. If it creates issues, I can easily add the second on/off toggle and let the SDC control the hazards. The issue with that is that the key would need to be on to make the hazards work or I'd have to put the entire module on a constant powered circuit, which I really don't want to do.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 01-30-2019 at 08:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Thanks for the info on the flashers. That pretty much what I expected. Did you just create jumpers with spade connectors and a short piece of wire? As for the fuse, that was in the diagram Jeff provided and is consistent with the SDC install sheet I found on their web site. It can't hurt to add a fuse. I'll likely use the electric choke circuit to power the SDC module. Before I wire the new hazard switch, I may try the SDC module with just the turn signals and keep the hazards on the existing circuit. If it creates issues, I can easily add the second on/off toggle and let the SDC control the hazards. The issue with that is that the key would need to be on to make the hazards work or I'd have to put the entire module on a constant powered circuit, which I really don't want to do.

    Dave
    I just created jumpers just as you mention using spade connectors. I believe the best practice would be to cut and bypass on the back of the fuse panel, I just didn't do it that way 1) to give me a little flexibility in case this didn't work and 2) i'm working with a partially completed car and was nervous to pull out the fuse panel. I'm by NO means an electrical expert so would defer to just about anyone else on this, but I didn't see the need for another inline fuse given I used the pink hazard 12V source which was still flowing through a fuse in the RF harness (bypassing the flashers doesn't bypass the fuses for either 4-ways or turn signal...I think). As you say, no harm in adding another one though.

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    I just did this install this last week. In your schematic above, the hazard switch also needs to be momentary. And if it's a SPST, you'll need the diodes, or keep it a DPST. Jumpers: yes, 2 short pieces of wire with male spade connectors. Actually, when you pull the flashers out, you'll need spades that look just like the blades on the flashers!

    And it's an LED safe unit, so you're good to swap over your bulbs if ya want. I'm running complete LEDs, and it works great.

    My hazards are powered from the battery. My turn signals are powered key on. Standard RF stuff. In order for the SD unit to function with hazards, it will need battery power and not ignition-switched power. However, with the key off, the T/S's have no power, so no big deal. If you power the SD unit off a switched source (such as TS gray), it will not work with your hazards unless the key is left on. Not a good way to do it, IMHO.

    If you are going to try it with existing hazards, make sure the hazard wiring is not wired to the input side of the SD unit... the hazard wiring will have to be on the output side, bypassing the SD unit. If you decide to add the hazards into it later, that wiring will have to be changed over to the input side of the SD Unit.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
    www.boss427.us
    Plan: 427W-X, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydster View Post
    I just did this install this last week. In your schematic above, the hazard switch also needs to be momentary. And if it's a SPST, you'll need the diodes, or keep it a DPST. Jumpers: yes, 2 short pieces of wire with male spade connectors. Actually, when you pull the flashers out, you'll need spades that look just like the blades on the flashers!

    And it's an LED safe unit, so you're good to swap over your bulbs if ya want. I'm running complete LEDs, and it works great.

    My hazards are powered from the battery. My turn signals are powered key on. Standard RF stuff. In order for the SD unit to function with hazards, it will need battery power and not ignition-switched power. However, with the key off, the T/S's have no power, so no big deal. If you power the SD unit off a switched source (such as TS gray), it will not work with your hazards unless the key is left on. Not a good way to do it, IMHO.

    If you are going to try it with existing hazards, make sure the hazard wiring is not wired to the input side of the SD unit... the hazard wiring will have to be on the output side, bypassing the SD unit. If you decide to add the hazards into it later, that wiring will have to be changed over to the input side of the SD Unit.
    Boyd,

    Let me run this by you to see if I'm missing something. I was hoping that I could simply pull the left and right bundles off the current on-off-on toggle switch and connect them to the output side of the SDC module. I'd then use the turn signal feed (gray) wire to power the on-off-on momentary switch with the outputs of that switch connected to the inputs (triggers) of the SDC module. I'd then need to jumper the TS flasher. I'd leave the hazard flasher in place and leave the hazard wiring connected to the current 6-pin on-on switch.

    Will this work?

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 01-30-2019 at 08:16 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Boyd,

    Le me run this by you to see if I'm missing something. I was hoping that I could simply pull the left and right bundles off the current on-off-on toggle switch and connect them to the output side of the SDC module. I'd then use the turn signal feed (gray) wire to power the on-off-on momentary switch with the outputs of that switch connected to the inputs (triggers) of the SDC module. I'd then need to jumper the TS flasher. I'd leave the hazard flasher in place and leave the hazard wiring connected to the current 6-pin on-on switch.

    Will this work?

    Dave
    If you do this at the switch, the turn signals will work. HOWEVER... The RF splices for the hazard circuit into the TS circuit would be in the output wires from the SD unit. You will create a backfeed issue when using the hazards... that power will come back through the SD unit and backfeed power, which can make all kinds of really weird things happen. I had this issue... all of the power on the car was cycling at the same rate as the still-installed hazard flasher... lights, gauges, fuel injection, everything. The hazard flasher was turning the whole car on & off, on & off, on & off...

    The fix to this can go two ways:
    1. Use diodes in the SD unit output wires before the hazard wiring connection. Install so the blocking lines on the diodes are away from the SD unit. This will prevent a backfeed from the hazards into the SD Unit.
    2. Install new wires from the hazard switch output to the TS switch output (disconnect and stow the old hazard switch output wires). This will wire the hazard switch on the input side of the SD unit. Use a momentary DPST or DPDT hazard switch and jumper the hazard flasher.

    You can try it the way you wrote, but be prepared for a real WTF moment. Maybe it was just my car, but it seems like the internal design of the unit has nothing to prevent electrons from going backwards.
    Last edited by Boydster; 01-13-2019 at 11:14 AM.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
    www.boss427.us
    Plan: 427W-X, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

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    Papa's Avatar
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    While I've been looking for a decent momentary toggle switch, I came across this switch (pair of switches) that would work great for the SDC unit. It would actually allow me to wire it per the SDC instructions, eliminating the pigtail for the hazard function.





    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    Those are cool! And yes, you'd be able to totally get rid the hazard switch and wiring, since the SD unit says to press both TS buttons at the same time for hazards. Nice find. If my switch panel wasn't already designed, made, covered and installed, I might have used this.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
    www.boss427.us
    Plan: 427W-X, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

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    Papa's Avatar
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    With the separate switches, here is what I'm thinking it should look like integrated into the RF harness:



    I ordered some diodes, but don't know that they are necessary. It can't hurt to put them in-line with the output to the lamps. Also, I believe I can still leave the complete RF hazard circuit in place (switch and flasher) and activate the hazards via the constant +12v supply vs. the SDC switched +12v supply if needed. If that causes issues, I can disable that circuit per my notes.
    Last edited by Papa; 01-13-2019 at 03:13 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    Using the diagram above, if you disable the RF hazard circuit and dont use it, then use the 2 buttons together to engage hazards, your key will have to be on for hazards to work.

    If you use the RF hazard circuit, install the diodes close to the SD unit outputs from the box. That way you know the RF hazard splices are down line. Doing it this way, the hazards are working off battery (no key) and the SD Unit is not even powered.

    I installed my SD Unit powered off the RF Hazard power wire (flasher removed and jumpered). That way the hazards work through the SD Unit off battery power. The Leds keep the draw very low, so I'm not overloading anything.

    I used 2ea 5A 30V Shottky diodes to isolate the circuits and they work great. But I'm also using all LED.
    Last edited by Boydster; 01-13-2019 at 05:05 PM.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
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    Plan: 427W-X, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydster View Post
    Using the diagram above, if you disable the RF hazard circuit and dont use it, then use the 2 buttons together to engage hazards, your key will have to be on for hazards to work.

    If you use the RF hazard circuit, install the diodes close to the SD unit outputs from the box. That way you know the RF hazard splices are down line. Doing it this way, the hazards are working off battery (no key) and the SD Unit is not even powered.

    I installed my SD Unit powered off the RF Hazard power wire (flasher removed and jumpered). That way the hazards work through the SD Unit off battery power. The Leds keep the draw very low, so I'm not overloading anything.

    I used 2ea 5A 30V Shottky diodes to isolate the circuits and they work great. But I'm also using all LED.
    Thanks, Boyd. I'm going to give this a shot once I have all the parts here. I'm going to try to keep the RF hazard circuit in place as it is now and only worry about the SDC unit controlling the turn signals. Although, if it works, I should be able to activate hazards via the SDC module as long as the key is on. I appreciate you taking the time to review my plan.

    Dave
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    No problem, man. I had just done it so it was fresh in my mind. Dont ask me how I wired up my tail lights with the trailer converter.

    Post back on how it all works so it keeps the thread complete for historical purposes.

    Car is looking good in the build thread!
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
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    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    While I've been looking for a decent momentary toggle switch, I came across this switch (pair of switches) that would work great for the SDC unit. It would actually allow me to wire it per the SDC instructions, eliminating the pigtail for the hazard function.





    Papa,
    Those are awesome looking. Did you order them from that website Blue Wire Automotive? They are in Australia it looks like or did you find them on the states? Is that the power window switches cause that is all I could find on their site. I kinda want to order all the switches like that to match for head lights and maybe a push button start etc. I like the idea of the self canceling signals.

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    Papa's Avatar
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    I actually ordered similar switches that cost a lot less from Billet Automotive Buttons.

    https://billetautomotivebuttons.com/...down-indicator

    They are also in Australia. They have a ton of options if you are looking for a matching set for several functions. I'll try making my own aluminum plate for them, but if that doesn't look good, I'll mount them directly into the dash.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 01-14-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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    I used a switch like this for my horn button, and hooked up the led to the dash lighting so I can see it at night. That thing is BRIGHT. Its the brightest light on my dash. The guy 2 cars over could read by it. I may install a resistor to dim it down or possibly disconnect the LED completely.

    Disclaimer... dont know if these are that bright or not, but be prepared. Yowza.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
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    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

  22. #21
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    The ones I bought don't have any lighting. For the ones I've looked at that do, a few have recommended adding resistors to get the voltage down to the recommended low voltage for the LEDs.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    that link didn't work for me, this one did . . . .

    https://bluewireautomotive.com/colle...billet-buttons

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydster View Post
    I used a switch like this for my horn button, and hooked up the led to the dash lighting so I can see it at night. That thing is BRIGHT. Its the brightest light on my dash. The guy 2 cars over could read by it. I may install a resistor to dim it down or possibly disconnect the LED completely.

    Disclaimer... dont know if these are that bright or not, but be prepared. Yowza.
    Boyd -- One of these might do the trick for you.

    https://bluewireautomotive.com/produ...-dimmer-module

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Boyd -- One of these might do the trick for you.
    Thanks Dave. Its certainly cheap enough to try, isnt it...
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
    www.boss427.us
    Plan: 427W-X, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018

  27. #25
    Papa's Avatar
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    In an effort to keep this thread current all the way to completion, here is a quick update. I have everything for the install except for the switches that should be delivered today. While sitting here watching the blizzard blowing outside this morning, I decided to get what I could done with the parts I have sitting on my desk. I soldered a pair of diodes to the output wires on the SDC unit and added some 22 gauge male spade connectors that I'll be able to directly plug the RF turn signal bundles to.



    My soldering skills are pretty amateur-level, but they are solidly connected and covered in clear heat shrink.
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    Papa's Avatar
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    I'm pleased to update this thread with a successful implementation of the SDC Self-Cancelling turn signal module. I installed it exactly per the wiring diagram I posted above. I also left the RF hazard circuit completely in tact and it works as intended. So, I can activate the four-way flashers via either the SDC unit or the RF circuit. The RF circuit will operate with the car off and the key removed, but the SDC module will only operate with the key in the on position. This can be handy for some cases when you need flashers while you are in the car. I'll be posting more details of the switches and plate I used in my build thread.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    Great Job Dave!

    I just ran across your video on YouTube
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
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    Thanks. It is exactly what I had hoped it would be.

    Dave
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    Dave,

    Thanks for completing the thread and, more importantly, for your very detailed and well-thought out questions / comments / diagrams and photos. I intend to follow your plan closely on my build.

    Well done!
    Craig

    10/2018 -- acquired Mk 3.1 #6602, unfinished, go-kart stage; still in original black gel-coat; 347 Stroker w/ Holley 650 carb, roller cam; T5 and donor stock 2.73 rear diff (for now); my Build Thread -- https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ished-Business

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