Patrick's 427 Build

[Pat427]

Jeff, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Wow! I'm shocked! (In case you didn't notice the sarcasm font was on when I typed that)

Instead of spending 90 bucks and having to keep the car plugged into the wall all the time so that you can keep an unreliable battery charged (not that I'm speaking from experience or anything...again sarcasm font) just spend that same money on a good ol' lead acid battery from Interstate, Autozone, etc.

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

I see that there is a series called "Optima High Performance House Calls". I've never watched but I think it shows an Optima rep showing up at owners' doors with jumper cables.

Jeff

[Papa]

Wow! I'm shocked! (In case you didn't notice the sarcasm font was on when I typed that)

Instead of spending 90 bucks and having to keep the car plugged into the wall all the time so that you can keep an unreliable battery charged (not that I'm speaking from experience or anything...again sarcasm font) just spend that same money on a good ol' lead acid battery from Interstate, Autozone, etc.

Jeff

I get the sarcasm, Jeff. I have to say, the only time my Optima died was after traveling for two days in a trailer with the key on to get to your place. I keep battery maintainers on all my infrequently used vehicles, mowers, tractors, etc. I typically use a Deltran Battery Tender, but those don't play well with the Optima battery, so I bought their maintainer. If I didn't already have the battery, I'd probably do exactly as you recommend and just buy a simple battery, although I was a bit concerned about what a lead acid battery would do in the trunk of my car, which is why I went the AGM direction. Every modern car I've owned with the battery in the trunk has used AGM.

On another note, I participated in my first club drive today and the paint got lots of compliments.

[Kmcallahan]

I get the sarcasm, Jeff. I have to say, the only time my Optima died was after traveling for two days in a trailer with the key on to get to your place. I keep battery maintainers on all my infrequently used vehicles, mowers, tractors, etc. I typically use a Deltran Battery Tender, but those don't play well with the Optima battery, so I bought their maintainer. If I didn't already have the battery, I'd probably do exactly as you recommend and just buy a simple battery, although I was a bit concerned about what a lead acid battery would do in the trunk of my car, which is why I went the AGM direction. Every modern car I've owned with the battery in the trunk has used AGM.

On another note, I participated in my first club drive today and the paint got lots of compliments.

Dave,
Thanks for this post, this give me more enthusiasm to narrow down a color for my 25th anniversary roadster. Great Pic!

[Pat427]

New Battery

I took a play out of BadAsp427's playbook and bought a new battery from O'reilly's.


After getting the new battery in place, the car fired up no problems.

[KDubU]

Wow! I'm shocked! (In case you didn't notice the sarcasm font was on when I typed that)

Instead of spending 90 bucks and having to keep the car plugged into the wall all the time so that you can keep an unreliable battery charged (not that I'm speaking from experience or anything...again sarcasm font) just spend that same money on a good ol' lead acid battery from Interstate, Autozone, etc.

Jeff

Pat, you made Jeff’s day admitting it was an Optima.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Pat, you made Jeff’s day admitting it was an Optima.

Kyle,
It's just so predictable. I have one here with an Optima right now---needed to move it last week after it had been sitting for about 7-10 days and had to jump it and then put it on the charger. Having an Optima is kind of like having a Tesla; you better plug it in when you park it if you want to be sure it will go next time

Jeff

[Pat427]

Gettin' Right

Yesterday was a good day in the garage.

Terry (TMartinLVNV) and Shane (skidd) came to visit my build again. These two immediately went to work on looking things over and found something that I had completely missed. Basically, there was a connection on the inside of the alternator that was loose. This was causing the alternator to not work properly. Shane ended up taking the alternator out of the car and opened it up and, sure enough, a bolt was loose. We tightened it up and re-installed the alternator.

I fired the car up and the volts immediately went to 14-15 on the gauge.

Next, Terry and Shane tinkered with my EFI and adjusted the IAC and temp at which the fan clicks on and off.

I am very thankful for these guy helping me out because I don't have the fund of knowledge about engines that these guys have. And remember, it was about 185 degrees in my garage.

Afterwards, we took a drive to Rudys BBQ and had some food. All in all a good day in the garage and I feel like I got my engine sorted out and running better.

[Papa]

Gettin' Right

Yesterday was a good day in the garage.

Terry (TMartinLVNV) and Shane (skidd) came to visit my build again. These two immediately went to work on looking things over and found something that I had completely missed. Basically, there was a connection on the inside of the alternator that was loose. This was causing the alternator to not work properly. Shane ended up taking the alternator out of the car and opened it up and, sure enough, a bolt was loose. We tightened it up and re-installed the alternator.

I fired the car up and the volts immediately went to 14-15 on the gauge.

Next, Terry and Shane tinkered with my EFI and adjusted the IAC and temp at which the fan clicks on and off.

I am very thankful for these guy helping me out because I don't have the fund of knowledge about engines that these guys have. And remember, it was about 185 degrees in my garage.

Afterwards, we took a drive to Rudys BBQ and had some food. All in all a good day in the garage and I feel like I got my engine sorted out and running better.

That's great news, Pat. Sooo it may not have been the Optima battery that was at fault?

[skidd]

Glad we could come hang out .. and help out a bit too!! Wrenching on cars never gets old... even in a 185F garage.
It's funny.... when Pats motor was not running quite right.. and mine parked beside it was running perfectly.. nothing I said could convince him to swap out that 427 for my 302?
Go figure right!!

[TMartinLVNV]

For the record, I took two bolts out before Shane pushed me to the side and went medieval on your alternator. After that, I stood by and sweated. It was a wet heat, not the dry stuff I'm used to

The positive terminal (B+ I think it is called) on the backside of the alternator was very loose. Battery is probably just fine. Even though it still is an optima

[Pat427]

Pipes

My Gas'n Quiet Pipes arrived...finally.



I ordered them March 8th. I'm not happy with how long it took, but I'm glad to have them.

I went with the brushed look instead of the polished look.

I will be working on getting them installed this week.

[Caddy Dad]

I ordered mine March 15th! Hopefully mine will ship out soon too. I got the mounting hardware earlier this week and now wondering how to insert the small round rubber hockey puck thing into the hanger. Doesn't seem to be an easy insert. Let me know how you make out.

Thanks!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looks like you'll be ordering some wedges.

Jeff

[Pat427]

Pipes Continued

I got my Gas'N Pipes mocked up today.

A couple things came up that I need to sort through. First, it appears I was able to use the existing Factory Five hangers that I had previously installed. I was told they would not work, but I was able to get them to bolt on to the pipe. I 'm not sure if I've messed something up, but I'm gonna go with it for now.

Next, it appears I'm going to need a wedge for the drivers side. I'm thinking either 1/2" or 1" inch spacer. I'm not sure which now to go with. I'm leaning toward the 1".


The passenger side looks alright and I don't think I'll need any wedges for that side.




I have to take the passenger side off in order to drill the hole for the O2 sensor. I planned on drilling the sensor hole in the little collecting area of the pipe like I did with the FF pipes. The only issue is that little collecting area on the Gas'N pipes is shorter, which might make that a little tricky. I'll post a picture of that later so you can see what I'm talking about.

And yes, I'm planning on having the female attachment piece welded to the pipe. I need to look for someone to do this for me as I don't have welding tools and I've never welded before, so I'm gonna outsource that to a professional.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You won't know the actual wedge configuration until the body is in it's final position with everything adjusted but for now it's obvious that the end of the driver's side pipe needs to come out quite a bit. In the end it will most likely have to come out even more. When you install the wedge to kick the rear of that pipe out you'll need to relocate the hanger.

Jeff

[Pat427]

O2 Sensor

Okay, I'm trying to get the hole drilled into the sidepipe for the O2 sensor, but running into an issue.

As I mentioned before, the collecting area in my new Gas'N pipes is shaped differently than the Factory Five pipes, which is causing a hiccup in what to do.

This first picture compares the collecting areas of the two pipes:

As you can see, the Factory five pipe has a flat spot in the collecting area, which is where I had the O2 sensor hole. However in the Gas'N pipe, the collecting area is more tapered and there is no flat area for the mounting bracket to sit.


I wanted to know if it would be okay to drill the hole where I have the mounting bracket placed in the picture below,? (which is more on the body of the pipe)



I really don't want to mess this up, so I would love any input you guys may have.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Railroad]

If it would help you can cut one end of the flange of the O2 mount off. This might get the sensor closer to the 4 tube mix area. May not even be needed???

Also a threaded bung is available, which you can weld into the tapered area, if desired.

[Papa]

Pat,

That part of the pipe is muffler. I would try to get into the collector, but double check that you'll be able to get it in/out and it clears the body of the car before drilling. I'd also go get the bung welded rather than using the clamp.

Dave

[Pat427]

Yea, I'm thinking about just cutting off the ends of the mounting flange, so effectively there would just be a circular threaded hole remaining and then have that welded to the pipe.

There is a bit of a flat spot in distal end of the collecting area (right next to the weld where the 'body' of the pipe starts) which might work. See pic below:



I just don't know anything about welding, so I didn't know if you can weld something right next to an existing weld line? Because if I mount the bung where the red arrow is pointing, I feel like the two welds would be touching each other and I wasn't sure if that's allowed?

If it would help you can cut one end of the flange of the O2 mount off. This might get the sensor closer to the 4 tube mix area. May not even be needed???

Also a threaded bung is available, which you can weld into the tapered area, if desired.

[TMartinLVNV]

$10 from Summit. It should fit on the flat spot without having to mess with the muffler section. Just make sure that the threads on the sensor are the same with the bung. Summit has lots of options available.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/v...gaApXQEALw_wcB

$8 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Vibrant-1194A.../dp/B00180870Q

[Pat427]

I saw one on the Holley site, which I would think should be the appropriate size/thread etc

$10 from Summit. It should fit on the flat spot without having to mess with the muffler section. Just make sure that the threads on the sensor are the same with the bung. Summit has lots of options available.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/v...gaApXQEALw_wcB

$8 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Vibrant-1194A.../dp/B00180870Q

[Jeff Kleiner]

Quit agonizing. Any good muffler shop will have the bungs and the ability to weld them into the area you have shown with the red arrow. It will take 15 minutes and lighten your wallet by about 40 bucks.

Jeff

[Pat427]

O2 Sensor

I was able to get an O2 sensor bung welded to the pipe. I took it to a local muffler shop and they were able to do it. $30.


Once I got home, I installed the pipe and fired up the engine. Oh boy! Those pipes sure do sound good. The sound is low and rumbling and quieter than the kit supplied pipes. Very happy with the sound.

Also, I got ahold of Kleiner and had a nice talk. He’s about a year out for paint and body. Gonna go with him. I’ll probably give Miller a call too just to see what his timeframe is.

[skidd]

I can't wait to hear those pipes in person.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...probably give Miller a call too just to see what his timeframe is.

I warned him when we talked a couple of days ago

Jeff

[Pat427]

I can't wait to hear those pipes in person.

Shane,

They sound really nice. We gotta get you up here again soon to hear them.

[460.465USMC]

The Build Continues

Also, I tackled the modification of the front upper control arms. I wasn't sure about this step as it's not mentioned anywhere in the build manual and I wasn't sure if this was something that FFR had fixed by the time my kit was built and the modification may be totally unnecessary or what. However, I decided to go ahead and perform the modification. I'd like to extend a specific Thank You to BadAsp427, who walked me through this modification, which turned out to be painless. Hopefully I did it right and it helps with alignment down the road.


Pat

Hello Pat427, I'm enjoying your thread. As another first timer (just ordered my complete kit about two weeks ago) I know I will have similar questions, so really appreciate you documenting your questions. Question: what is the Mod to the front UCAs that you mention above? Thanks in advance for the info. I will continue reading on.

[Pat427]

460.465USMC,

Thank you for following along. I'm exited for you to tackle the build. It's been fun and challenging all at the same time. But, with this forum, you should be just fine.

As far as the mod for the front upper control arms, it basically boils down to cutting them shorter. I'm not entirely sure this modification is necessary, but it was recommended to me by BadAsp427 (Carl). And to be perfectly candid, when BadAsp427 gives me advice, it take it. He's been a life saver and hasn't been wrong on anything to this point in my build.

Here's a link to a discussion thread. It's a little over my head, but there's some pictures that illustrate what the modification looks like.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ter-amp-Camber

Hello Pat427, I'm enjoying your thread. As another first timer (just ordered my complete kit about two weeks ago) I know I will have similar questions, so really appreciate you documenting your questions. Question: what is the Mod to the front UCAs that you mention above? Thanks in advance for the info. I will continue reading on.

[Pat427]

Windshield Wipers

In order to get the car legal in Texas, it must have windshield wipers. I learned recently that I could've just borrowed some cheap hand-powered windshield wipers for the inspection and then removed them afterwards. Well, I didn't research that enough and ended up buying the windshield wiper kit from FF.

This has been a bit of a PITA, but I think I'm almost done with it. I'm planning on posting some more details about the installation process, but for now I had a question for the forum.

I have managed to crossthread one of the wheelboxes and therefore cannot get the nut to secure the wheel box tightly to the body. Pic below. Kinda hard to see, but trust me, the threads are cross threaded.



Question: would it be easier to buy a 7/8th die and try to fix the threads OR should I buy a replacement wheel box. The reason I'm asking is because I've never had to fix threads before and didn't want to buy all the tools and then have it not work properly, etc..

If it's recommended to buy a new one, does anyone have a brand or part number for these?

The good news is once I get the windshield wipers working, I'll be ready for inspection/registration.

[TMartinLVNV]

Looks cross threaded to me. I don't have the wipers and have never examined the parts in person. Looking at your pictures, they don't look like high quality metal and would be wary of repairing the threads.

[GTBradley]

Are you saying the nut caused the cross thread damage and you removed it? Because the nut is not in that picture.
IMG_3099.jpg
If the threads are just slightly damaged you can use a nut to clean them up, but it needs to be threaded on straight and use a different nut, preferably a hardened one. I would mount it in a vice to hold it and don’t force it. If the threads are too damaged for that I would use a die and some cutting oil to gently thread on one thread off one thread, on two threads off one thread and so on. It may still not work, but it’s worth a try.

P.S. A tap and die kit from Harbor Freight is not that expensive and pretty handy to have around.

[Pat427]

I elected to buy another wheelbox from Finsh Line. I took the nut off for those pictures, but yes, it was the nut that caused the damage.

Are you saying the nut caused the cross thread damage and you removed it? Because the nut is not in that picture.
IMG_3099.jpg
If the threads are just slightly damaged you can use a nut to clean them up, but it needs to be threaded on straight and use a different nut, preferably a hardened one. I would mount it in a vice to hold it and don’t force it. If the threads are too damaged for that I would use a die and some cutting oil to gently thread on one thread off one thread, on two threads off one thread and so on. It may still not work, but it’s worth a try.

P.S. A tap and die kit from Harbor Freight is not that expensive and pretty handy to have around.

[Pat427]

Wings

Today I mounted the wind wings and sun visors.

The FF instructions for the wind wings are pretty bad. The pictures aren't very good and the description isn't much better. The FF instructions say to mount the wind wings so that the "Factory Five Racing" logo can be read from the inside. This seems silly to me. I think it makes more sense for that logo to be legible from the outside of the car. So, I strayed from the instructions and mounted them the way it made sense to me. Below are a couple pics. If anyone has a functional reason or a convincing aesthetic reason that I should change things, please let me know.







I also mounted the sun visors.

[bldr.rob]

Looking good! I'm not too far from you (Bee Caves just north of Dripping Springs). We've got a rolling chassis and will be working on fuel lines next. Would love to stop by some day when convenient and check out your build. Thx.

[BadAsp427]

Hey Pat, Glad to see you are getting some time in on the build. Couple questions for you. On the photo of your wind wing, it looks like the top bracket is not all the way in/over the windshield brace. Is it bottomed out on the inside where I can't see or just not on all the way. Also, what is the pattern in the dash board between the glove box and your gauges. Is that just some kind of reflection or something? Regardless, it looks like you are starting to get all those little tasks accomplished... fun times await.

Carl

[Chilly]

I pulled the trigger and ordered my MKIV kit. Completion date is 2/2/19.

I have no knowledge or experience when it comes to building a car. I went to the Mott College Build school which was helpful, but I anticipate this forum will be the main source of help when problems arise.

I've been reading multiple build threads (EdwardB, Papa, Wareagle, etc) in preparation for my kit to arrive, so I already feel like I've learned a lot about problems and troubleshooting, although I'm sure the reality of what I'm getting myself into will set in once those 26 boxes arrive.

I only work about 15 days a month, so I anticipate I'll be able to dedicate a lot of time to the build. No kids (yet). No wife (yet).

My plan is as follows:

MK4 Complete kit-powder coated
IRS
427w engine Holly Sniper (from the Engine Factory) Pic at bottom.
In-tank Fuel system
Tremac TKO 600
Power Steering
Halibrand wheels
sway bars (front and rear)
Wildwood brakes (red calipers)
Drivers side chrome roll bar
Breeze Radiator shroud
Russ Thompson turn signal
Drop trunk.
Leather seats
Vintage gauges
Glove Box
Wind Visors
Sun Visors
Pre-assembled side louvers

Again, I'm the definition of a novice, so any help is MUCH appreciated. I look forward to the challenge.

Thanks in advance,

Pat.Attachment 101527

Pat ,

Almost have the same setup, just received my car last month, how is your build going?

Colin

[Chilly]

Pat,

Did you do the lizardskin as well as the thermo-tec product? Curious.


Colin

[Pat427]

absolutely! I'm just north of New Braunfels. shoot me a PM whenever you'd like to swing by!

[Pat427]

Hey Carl, excellent observations. Nothing gets past you!

With respect to the wind wing brackets I've attached a pic below that will help explain the situation:

Where the red arrow is pointing, there is a threaded hole in the windshield support beam. (There's also another hole on the front edge of the windshield support beam that you can see.)
Anyway, this hole was a perfect size for the set screw from the wind wing bracket to screw into, so I used it. This resulted in the wind wing bracket being not fully seated.

With respect to the pattern on the dashboard: there's a pattern in the leather. It came that way. It's kinda hard to see when you look head-on. I'm hoping I can somehow flatten it out with heat or something.

Thanks for checking over things. Let me know if there's anything you think I should change.

Couple questions for you. On the photo of your wind wing, it looks like the top bracket is not all the way in/over the windshield brace. Is it bottomed out on the inside where I can't see or just not on all the way. Also, what is the pattern in the dash board between the glove box and your gauges. Is that just some kind of reflection or something? Regardless, it looks like you are starting to get all those little tasks accomplished... fun times await.

Carl