Getting ready to pull trigger on build kit - got questions - any help appreciated

[Fman]

Here is what I am planning on ordering in near future:

Mk4
Coyote engine w/TK0600 trans
IRS suspension/rear end
Leather seats
Power steering kit
17" wheels
Going with base disc brake kit (No wildwood)
Wiper kit (to pass CA inspection for SBC-100, prob will never use)
Heater
Adding heated seats
Passenger side rollbar
Floor mats
Sun visor
Wind wings

Anything else someone would recommend?

Few questions I have...

Power brakes? What are guys doing to add power brakes? is it necessary or is the wildwood pedal box adequate?
Roll bars? Someone mentioned some guys cut them down 1"? different vendor that sells a shorter roll bar?
For guys in CA, do you need wipers to pass the inspection? I would really not like to buy them but also dont want to fail because they were never installed.
Where should I buy my engine/trans? Is it best to go with Factory Five?

Thanks for any feedback...

[frd2]

Very similar set up here. Mine was a base kit to start out with so didn't have to worry about getting rid of the wilwood parts - but using the mustang pedal box is very easy and makes adding power brakes simple. Since you have power steering you could do hydroboost, or could use the whitby vacuum booster kit.

Wilwood box can be sold to someone who bought a base kit but wants that box.

[GoDadGo]

Welcome Aboard!

It sounds like you've got a really nice plan in place...With that said you may want to check out Edwardb's last MK-4 build for some really good reference material before you place your order.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...iversary-Build

As for me I shortened the roll bars and am happy with where they are...I even shortened the wheelbase since I'm running a 3-Link solid axle but that is another story because my list of modifications are longer than most...Please know that I am running the stock Mustang front brakes with Explorer single pistons out back (Dana 44 Rear) and the set up works fine for spirited driving and cruising which is what my car was intended for.

https://youtu.be/CaRlqMmKIzk

Again, Welcome Aboard!

[KDubU]

Looks good overall. I would go with Wilwoods before power breaks but that is my personal preference. Also you’ll need to do something with that cover on Coyote 3, very Aliens looking.

[David Hodgkins]

I put 2 builds through SPCNS (aka SB100) without wipers.

I added them to my personal ride after...

I'd add the body cutouts. Makes a nice base to have the base holes before enlarging as (if) needed.

Personally, I'd go with the 18" wheels if you aren't doing 15"

[Gilmore]

I passed California inspection without wipers and they were never mentioned.

[videodude]

Power brakes are easy IF you use the Mustang pedal box. Wilwood does NOT support power brakes with their setup, however either Mike Forte or Mike Everson has a kit to modify the Wilwood pedals for power. You also would need to run the Wilwood rotors and calipers with their setup, and there is no turning back. With the stock Mustang Cobra brakes, you can always upgrade from manual to power, or to Wilwoods. A stock vacuum booster works fine, lots of info on this forum about how to mount the booster and master for this type of setup. Whitby makes a frame adapter kit for the "kick out" needed to clear the booster. They also make a complete kit for the brakes. Power steering is also easy using either the Mustang rack, or the one FFR provides.

I would agree with my buddy Wookie (Dave H.) about the 18" wheels; there are more tire choices available than with 17's.

Video

[edwardb]

Power brakes is widely discussed. You'll get some that say they're necessary. Others not. IMO it's about expectations. If you want brakes that feel like your daily driver, then you'll probably want power. If you're willing to have a somewhat heavier pedal feel, the manual setup is much simpler, cheaper, and can be made to stop just fine. A complete kit comes with the Wilwood (check the spelling BTW. Not Wildwood.) pedal box and must be modded to have power assist and you lose the front/back bias adjustment it's designed for. A Mustang pedal box doesn't have that particular problem, can have power assist added pretty easily, and puts the master cylinder outside the footbox instead of inside like the Wilwood. I've done all three: Mustang pedal box with power, Wilwood pedal box with power, and Wilwood pedal box left stock and not power. Of the two, I personally prefer the Wilwood and I'm fine without power. There are options for more aggressive pads that can really increased the stopping if that's what you need. Much easier than adding boost.

For the roll bar, yes the existing bar (or bars in your case with the passenger side added) can be lowered but does change the geometry and how it mounts. Breeze offers an alternative (https://www.breezeautomotive.com/sho...-carbon-steel/) which is very nice. I used it on a build. Probably the best looking setup out there. But it's more work, and unless you're really short it's a little low and may not offer quite as much protection. If that matters or you're concerned about sanctioned events where it probably wouldn't pass.

[bil1024]

Fortes can help you with your engine combo

[Jim Stabe]

There are options for more aggressive pads that can really increased the stopping if that's what you need. Much easier than adding boost.

.

Which pad have you found work the best? What downsides do they have if any? (dust noise, pedal effort)

[edwardb]

Which pad have you found work the best? What downsides do they have if any? (dust noise, pedal effort)

Sorry, that statement was made based on multiple discussions on both forums. For my street driving, I've not done anything exotic so can't give any personal recommendations or observations. My current Roadster and Coupe have the stock Wilwood pads that came with the brake set and they've been fine for me.

[Fman]

Appreciate all the great information, definitely will be doing the cut outs.

Few other questions...

Where is a good vendor to source 18" wheels and tires? and for street is there a certain tire that performs best? I am building this car for a weekend drive, nothing crazy.

Please look at the attached pic...

Is the gray/red car on top running 17 or 18" wheels?

The two lower cars appear to have different height roll cages? or maybe I am missing something? The cars look to be identical but the cage looks higher on one than the other.
Screen Shot 2020-01-29 at 6.57.41 PM.jpg

[Papa]

Welcome! A couple of comments for you. I originally bought the 17" wheels and then ended up getting the 18" Halibrand replicas from FFR. I'm running Michelin Pilot Sport tires and I really like the setup. I didn't see anyone mention the Breeze roll bars. If I were doing another build, I'd go with them. He doesn't offer the stainless bars anymore, but the steel ones can be chromed or powder coated to your preference and they look fantastic compared to the FFR bars. They do require welding, but I would find a mobile welder to tack them and then remove them and finish up the full welds.

[edwardb]

I didn't see anyone mention the Breeze roll bars...

I did in post #8. To the OP, first picture is my #7750 Mk4 build with 17-inch wheels with Nitto tires and Breeze roll bar. Second picture is my #8674 Mk4 20th Anniversary build with 18-inch wheels with BF Goodrich Rival S tires and dual stock FFR roll bars. As you can see, there's not a lot of difference in the look of the wheels. There are several other tire brand choices for both. The main limiter will be finding the ones you want in the 315 rear width. BTW, these two cars are almost exactly the same color. The pictures show how different they can look with different outdoor lighting (sun vs. shade) and also different cameras. FWIW.

...The two lower cars appear to have different height roll cages? or maybe I am missing something? The cars look to be identical but the cage looks higher on one than the other.
Screen Shot 2020-01-29 at 6.57.41 PM.jpg

FFR only has a single height roll bar option. Whatever difference you're seeing there is perspective, photo editing, whatever.

[Fman]

Beautiful looking cars!

I notice you have windshield wipers on both cars, is this for aesthetics or to pass inspection? I do like the look of the Breeze roll bar, however I would not trust my welding skills on a vital part like a roll cage. I will probably have to end up going with the FF roll bar.

As far as exhausts, when running black side pipes are guys ceramic coating them or just painting with a high temp paint?

[BB767]

Beautiful looking cars!

I notice you have windshield wipers on both cars, is this for aesthetics or to pass inspection? I do like the look of the Breeze roll bar, however I would not trust my welding skills on a vital part like a roll cage. I will probably have to end up going with the FF roll bar.

As far as exhausts, when running black side pipes are guys ceramic coating them or just painting with a high temp paint?

I was able to shorten my FFR roll bar about an inch without affecting the mounting adversely. Still slide in easily and bolted up fine. That small inch made a big difference in appearance. May be an option for you.

[brewha]

Before you cut your roll bars make sure they are high enough with a helmet if you ever want to attend a track day.

[edwardb]

Beautiful looking cars!

I notice you have windshield wipers on both cars, is this for aesthetics or to pass inspection? I do like the look of the Breeze roll bar, however I would not trust my welding skills on a vital part like a roll cage. I will probably have to end up going with the FF roll bar.

As far as exhausts, when running black side pipes are guys ceramic coating them or just painting with a high temp paint?

Thanks. Wipers are required in Michigan as part of the safety inspection to get your title. Not everyone does them and are able to talk their way out of them. Or remove them after the inspection. Or put some type of one-time manual wiper there for the inspection and then remove. Personally, I prefer to have them and don't think it's a big deal. They've been used a few times (not on purpose...) and are only marginally useful. But they're there.

I don't weld either. My Breeze roll bar was done by a local welding shop I go to. Don't feel like you have to do it yourself if that's the way you want to go.

Sorry, haven't done black side pipes. Those are both Gas-N Performance polished stainless pipes.

[frd2]

Just saw a post on Facebook where someone is selling the tangent roll bar kits again. Factory five builder was the group I think.

[toadster]

welcome to the fray! I've ordered a car, it shows up next week - so I've recently gone through a LOT of these thoughts myself... most of it is on my website (in my signature), but also TONS of info here to read through...

I'm going to go with Mike Forte for my Gen3 Coyote/TKO600/IRS setup,and will opt for the hydraulic clutch as well, the Factory Five setup is good as well - either/or will be fine; I figured FFR got my kit $$ so I'll share with Mike on the drivetrain

I'm doing the Wilwood brakes, and 18" wheels and other after-market options https://cobradreams.com/parts-n-pieces/

[Fman]

welcome to the fray! I've ordered a car, it shows up next week - so I've recently gone through a LOT of these thoughts myself... most of it is on my website (in my signature), but also TONS of info here to read through...

I'm going to go with Mike Forte for my Gen3 Coyote/TKO600/IRS setup,and will opt for the hydraulic clutch as well, the Factory Five setup is good as well - either/or will be fine; I figured FFR got my kit $$ so I'll share with Mike on the drivetrain

I'm doing the Wilwood brakes, and 18" wheels and other after-market options https://cobradreams.com/parts-n-pieces/

ah, finally someone local to me! I am out in Penryn (loomis area). Great job on your website, I already got a lot of info from it. I am planning ordering my kit within next couple weeks, I dont think I will see it until end of April/May sometime. I will be anxious to watch you start your build.

I have a few questions...

Are you adding windshield wipers? (SB-100 inspection)
Black or chrome exhaust? (if black how are you coating it)
Are you ordering your engine/trans now or waiting until you get a rolling chassis? (if later how long does it take Mike to ship you one)

[bobm488]

My build is very similar to yours. Engine and trans are from Mike Forte. Mine was delivered in August and should be in paint with Da-Bat in a month or so. I hope to have it licensed by summer.

In SoCal

[toadster]

ah, finally someone local to me! I am out in Penryn (loomis area). Great job on your website, I already got a lot of info from it. I am planning ordering my kit within next couple weeks, I dont think I will see it until end of April/May sometime. I will be anxious to watch you start your build.

I have a few questions...

Are you adding windshield wipers? (SB-100 inspection)
Black or chrome exhaust? (if black how are you coating it)
Are you ordering your engine/trans now or waiting until you get a rolling chassis? (if later how long does it take Mike to ship you one)

yup! there are TONS of guys around here!

I did order wipers, I think it completes the look more than anything...
chrome exhaust - there are lots here who have ceramic coated black though, keep searching!
I'm waiting on the engine/trans, but I already have the IRS center so it can be installed - everyone told me to wait since it will just take up garage space and my wife still wants to park in the garage!

Folsom Cars & Coffee has a bunch of Cobras every week (pending no rain) - Palladio starting ~7:00-9:30am, stop by!

[Avalanche325]

My thoughts...

I don't understand a street car without wipers. Most race cars have wipers. You will get caught in the rain at some point, even if you are in SoCal. I tried Rain-X, and ended up turning my wipers on.

I would not build one of these without Wilwoods. I have never seen a car that stops too fast.

If you go with short roll bars, make sure that they work for your height taking helmets into consideration. Even if you don't plan on going on the track, you very well might. They are real rollbars, not just chrome trim.

No need for cutouts. They are marked on the car anyway. You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass. OK, the first one IS scary.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...No need for cutouts. They are marked on the car anyway. You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass.

Well, I've filled a lot of holes on cars built by guys who thought that way and tried to save a hundred bucks. I won't charge you to finesse the FFR cut holes but that can change if I gotta' spend a couple of hours and half a can of HSRF to fill ones that got cheesed up. Just sayin'...

Jeff

[Railroad]

I would pay for the cut outs on the body. It seemed to save a lot of time, when I got ready to set the body on.
I had to open the cuts in a few areas, but nothing like using a template and tape measure on each cut out. JMO

[cnutting]

I opted for no wipers, but may add them this year for early morning condensation. For the black pipes, I used VHT flat black spray can. Plenty of other options available, but this was quick, easy and relatively cheap. It's held up well. Running the stock brakes with Hawk pads, stops just fine.

[Avalanche325]

Well, I've filled a lot of holes on cars built by guys who thought that way and tried to save a hundred bucks. I won't charge you to finesse the FFR cut holes but that can change if I gotta' spend a couple of hours and half a can of HSRF to fill ones that got cheesed up. Just sayin'...

Jeff

You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass...

....or then again.......maybe you can't.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You are building a car, certainly you can cut a few holes in fiberglass...

....or then again.......maybe you can't.

You should hear some of the stories when Miller, Ken and I get together and start comparing notes. When the owners confess they always end the conversation with a hopeful "You'll be able to fix that won't you?" Just had a long text message stream with Batty earlier today discussing why HSRF should be on the controlled substance list and require a license to purchase

Jeff

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Lots of long on opinion, short on experience.

[Fman]

I officially pulled the trigger this morning and ordered my Mk4, my completion date is March 28. I am very excited to start building this car.

Here is what my final build is looking like.

Coyote w/TK0600 trans
IRS suspension/rear end
Stainless header with bare exhaust (going Satin black)
Leather seats
Power steering kit
17" wheels
Base disc brake kit (No wilwood)
Wiper kit (to pass CA inspection for SBC-100, prob will never use)
Heater
Adding heated seats
Passenger side rollbar
Floor mats
Sun visor
Wind wings
GPS vintage gauge set
Bumper kit
Cut outs

Hoping to see the car mid April, so now I just get to hurry up and wait :-)

One question on wheels, I would really like to have the Halibrand wheels in black. Any recommendations of a good vendor that sells them? I currently have the factory five wheels on the order with gray inserts right now but they do not offer black.

[kgkeys]

Hoping to see the car mid April, so now I just get to hurry up and wait :-)

Get yourself a plastic model for a warm-up.

Kyle
FB_IMG_1580794285115.jpg

[Jeff Kleiner]

...One question on wheels, I would really like to have the Halibrand wheels in black. Any recommendations of a good vendor that sells them? I currently have the factory five wheels on the order with gray inserts right now but they do not offer black.

Just get them powder coated.

Congrats on the order!

Jeff

[michael everson]

I do power brakes on all my builds. Even with Wilwood big brakes. Every customer loves them.
Power brakes using a Mustang pedal box is simple and cheap and you can recover most if not all of your cost by selling the Wilwood box.
Another advantage to the mustang box is you have no brake fluid inside your car. Also makes running the brakes lines much easier.

Besides the mustang pedal box (87-2004) here is a list of what you need with Oreilly Auto parts part numbers

87-93 Mustang brake booster 54-73207
94-95 Mustang Cobra Master cylinder 10-2854
Adapter BLF33B
Adapter BLF31B
Brake booster spacer www.replicaparts.com
You will need a remote reservoir, use one from the 99 Mercury Villager
You don't need the frame section from Whitbys. You can just buy a length of 3/4 square tube similar to what you cut out of the frame. Just make it a couple inches longer and bolt it beside the section you cut out.
Mike

[Fman]

I do power brakes on all my builds. Even with Wilwood big brakes. Every customer loves them.
Power brakes using a Mustang pedal box is simple and cheap and you can recover most if not all of your cost by selling the Wilwood box.
Another advantage to the mustang box is you have no brake fluid inside your car. Also makes running the brakes lines much easier.

Besides the mustang pedal box (87-2004) here is a list of what you need with Oreilly Auto parts part numbers

87-93 Mustang brake booster 54-73207
94-95 Mustang Cobra Master cylinder 10-2854
Adapter BLF33B
Adapter BLF31B
Brake booster spacer www.replicaparts.com
You will need a remote reservoir, use one from the 99 Mercury Villager
You don't need the frame section from Whitbys. You can just buy a length of 3/4 square tube similar to what you cut out of the frame. Just make it a couple inches longer and bolt it beside the section you cut out.
Mike

I will definitely be looking into this more, are there any write ups or you tube videos on this? What is approx cost for all parts?

[Jeff Kleiner]

...What is approx cost for all parts?

Mike gave you the part numbers so between his website (pedal box & spacer) and O'Reilly's you should be able to do the math.

The installation has been documented by many (myself included) both here and on the other forum.

Jeff

[toadster]

I do power brakes on all my builds. Even with Wilwood big brakes. Every customer loves them.
Power brakes using a Mustang pedal box is simple and cheap and you can recover most if not all of your cost by selling the Wilwood box.
Another advantage to the mustang box is you have no brake fluid inside your car. Also makes running the brakes lines much easier.

Besides the mustang pedal box (87-2004) here is a list of what you need with Oreilly Auto parts part numbers

87-93 Mustang brake booster 54-73207 $103
94-95 Mustang Cobra Master cylinder with reservoir $61
Adapter BLF33B $7
Adapter BLF31B $9
Brake booster spacer $30
You don't need the frame section from Whitbys. You can just buy a length of 3/4 square tube similar to what you cut out of the frame. Just make it a couple inches longer and bolt it beside the section you cut out.
Mike

added some links and prices for you @Fman

~$210 which is less than 1/2 the whitby's price... https://www.whitbymotorcars.com/prod...-kit-complete/

[edwardb]

I will definitely be looking into this more, are there any write ups or you tube videos on this? What is approx cost for all parts?

You'll get lots of opinions on this forum. Power brakes is one of them. There aren't many absolutes. I have my own opinion about power brakes (I've had and extensively driven both) but that's not the point of my post. And I don't want to get in the way of posts from Mike or Jeff. They have more combined experience than I'll ever have. But this is an example of how changing one thing affects others down the line. The Mustang pedal box is definitely easier to add power assist. No question there at all. Been there done that. MC's in the footbox versus outside, along with the line routing, is a difference but done properly either are fine IMO. What the Wilwood pedal box does offer, that the Mustang pedal box doesn't, is front/back bias adjust, pedal height is adjustable, pedal width and location are adjustable, hydraulic clutch is a bolt on (that's what the pedal box is designed for), and since you're going with a Coyote, the required Coyote clutch switch bracketry Factory Five supplies is designed for the Wilwood pedal box. Full disclosure, every one of these differences can be addressed. None are insurmountable at all or even that difficult, especially for Mike with his extensive build experience and fabrication ability. However, that may not be for you so just be informed. No matter what the suggestion or change, just make sure you have all the plusses and minuses before deciding, and weigh what's important to you and fits your build plan and capabilities. That's the intent of my post.

[nuhale]

I'm in the throws of my MKIV build and a couple adds...

-Edwardb & Shark92651 forums are excellent and similar to your setup.
-You will change your build plan by reading this forum. Folks really like to help you spend money here (its a good thing).
-Breeze auto is great too. Mark has a ton of "easy button" solutions. I used his forward battery box, power steering components, radiator mounting and easy seat mounting.
-FORTE!! Mike is a pleasure to work with and can help with engine and other parts you will find yourself adding. I went with gen 2 coyote with TKO600 as gen 3 still early and is larger (its pretty tight already).
- I went with Forte's hydroboost power brake setup. Also installed a power steering rack. I'm not go-carting yet so have no report on performance. It's been pretty easy setup.
-Nicopp! I used nicopp brake & fuel lines. Excellent experience when forming these. I bought a straightener and used the eastwood flare tool.
- Gas'n Pipes & headers. Georgie is great to work with and the product looks exceptional. Not on car yet so no report on performance but all reviews on this site are excellent


Good luck! It's one hell of a journey.

[Avalanche325]

You should hear some of the stories when Miller, Ken and I get together and start comparing notes. When the owners confess they always end the conversation with a hopeful "You'll be able to fix that won't you?" Just had a long text message stream with Batty earlier today discussing why HSRF should be on the controlled substance list and require a license to purchase

Jeff

Jeff

Oh, I'll bet you guys have seen some baffling and hysterical things. I have worked with a few people that if they picked up a tool, something was going to get broken.

I usually, and often incorrectly, make the assumption that people can figure out which end of a screwdriver goes on the screw. But we all know what assumptions do.....