F9 Testing?

[crash]

Dave said in his update letter that they were "testing" the F9 this last couple weeks. Any news about this?

[Logan]

Wind tunnel pics on Instagram. Not much outside of that. Expecting a detailed update soon.

[David Hodgkins]

Wind tunnel pics on Instagram. Not much outside of that. Expecting a detailed update soon.

I checked and didn't see that. Got a link?

[Logan]

22CC57DE-2A37-4007-B3CE-E5F988AE9CAC.jpeg

ADB446A9-2CC1-4084-A6F0-9C8690E5CD96.jpeg

[Logan]

Didn’t save the post, and IG is annoyingly impossible to search from, so I’ll just post the two pictures I saved from it.

[bil1024]

Looks nasty! In a good way

[FFRSpec72]

Dave said in his update letter that they were "testing" the F9 this last couple weeks. Any news about this?

I hope they do a better job than they did on the 818R !

[Kasmodean]

Looking sick! Posted on their Instagram today. Looks like Wayne is having some fun.

118876185_1032468280536379_7095980002103161856_n.jpg

[edwardb]

Dave did a video a couple days ago providing a bunch of details of where they're at. And some of the best pictures (and sounds...) of the F9 yet. https://www.facebook.com/factoryfive...26132944601732

[David Hodgkins]

Hey, don't cut The Traveling Builder from the shot!


Here's another image I found. Seems I have to scour the interwebs for pics nowadays...


Looks like they were working their way through all the variations of street to track. I think it looks naked without the rear (what do you call it) part behind the rear wheel. I wonder what that part contributes to total rear downforce?

The carbon fiber looks outstanding.

[David Hodgkins]

I'm going to make a confession here. We'll see how long until I delete it...

Not feeling the love for the forum with F9 news.

Anyway, Here's a shot from 9/1. Video posted (among many) has not been made public outside Facebook.

[wallace18]

IMO the F9 is just a little too busy with vents and such. I do like the overall shape and front/mid engine layout. I tend to like more organic flowing lines. Hopefully the new nose will lend to that. Maybe street version will be a little less busy.

[CDXXVII]

I thinks this is one of those wait and see things. I like the finished carbon fiber body concept but it’s the price point that may end up killing it. Right now this is no more exciting to me than the new Toyota Supra TRD.

I'm going to make a confession here. We'll see how long until I delete it...

Not feeling the love for the forum with F9 news.

Anyway, Here's a shot from 9/1. Video posted (among many) has not been made public outside Facebook.

[RoadRacer]

I'm going to make a confession here. We'll see how long until I delete it...

Not feeling the love for the forum with F9 news.

I wonder if they'll distance this from the 'kit cars' forum and create a new brand to market this.. the F9 is going to be sold to a different buyer, right?

[JohnK]

IMO the F9 is just a little too busy with vents and such. I do like the overall shape and front/mid engine layout. I tend to like more organic flowing lines. Hopefully the new nose will lend to that. Maybe street version will be a little less busy.

I agree 1000%. Way too busy for my taste. Sometimes less is more when it comes to vents and flares and scoops and cutouts and whatnot.

[Papa]

I wonder if they'll distance this from the 'kit cars' forum and create a new brand to market this.. the F9 is going to be sold to a different buyer, right?

During the video that was linked above, Dave responded to a question on kit cost and it's in the 30-40K range depending on the cost of the body. Figure a 10k savings on body and paint work and you're right in the same market as the GTM. Now look at the drive train using non-exotic (Porsche or Mendeola) parts and you may be able to actually build one of these for less than the cost of building a GTM.

[Kasmodean]

I love the look of it. The other car on my list right now is a C8. So I like the hypercar look.

I have been watching Factory Five since college in the 2005 time frame. I liked the performance but wasn't so convinced about the styling of a cobra. Then the GTM came out and wow! I was still in college, but I loved it. But the mid engine transaxle seemed to be a pain in the butt. Then the 818. I really considered the 818. But it seems too plain to me. They just did the Daytona and the hot rod/truck to appease the crowd that likes the curvy cars. I hope they stick with the styling they have now.

Only thing that can stop me now is price.

[GoDadGo]

I agree 1000%. Way too busy for my taste. Sometimes less is more when it comes to vents and flares and scoops and cutouts and whatnot.

Lord knows I'm a "Less Is More" kind of guy and while I do like the exotic look of the car, I find it to be a bit busy for my taste.

I think a 250 GTO Ferrari would sell better, plus easier to use the existing Type 65 platform with only minimal mods; however, I don't know if it would sell either because I am one of the very few fans of the Factory Five Spyder which we all know didn't make a dime and had to be dropped.

I hope the F-9 is produced because it is cool, but so is the GTM and I don't think that platform has made any money for the company even though it did give them great credibility.

[RoadRacer]

During the video that was linked above, Dave responded to a question on kit cost and it's in the 30-40K range depending on the cost of the body. Figure a 10k savings on body and paint work and you're right in the same market as the GTM. Now look at the drive train using non-exotic (Porsche or Mendeola) parts and you may be able to actually build one of these for less than the cost of building a GTM.

Thanks, that's great news. I thought I'd watched it all, but missed that part. All the hypercar talk made me think it was going to be a "turnkey minus" at best. This is great news, I love the thing!

[Papa]

His response was to a question in the chat, not spoken.

[narkosys]

to some, it may look "busy" but remember that this is in race mode. the F9 in street clothes will be a bit more subdued. and I agree with Papa about the price.

[crash]

I love this thing. I want to get my hands on one ASAP!

[Just puttering]

I'm going to make a confession here. We'll see how long until I delete it...

Not feeling the love for the forum with F9 news.

Anyway, Here's a shot from 9/1. Video posted (among many) has not been made public outside Facebook.

This is the only forum I frequent! And I put no time into facebook, if they think everyone is getting FFR news from fb they are wrong!

[GoDadGo]

This is the only forum I frequent! And I put no time into facebook, if they think everyone is getting FFR news from fb they are wrong!

Like you, I too only use the Factory Five Forum to see what is going on with the F-5 family.
Any post they put on Facebook or any other platform should be on the forum that they themselves started.
Somebody needs to tell Dave Smith that they need to support The Factory Five Forum by keeping it up to date with stuff like this.

[Mad Dog]

Hi Everyone,

As Dave mentions in the video, we're working on a larger update on the F9 that will be posted to Factory Five's website as well as here on the forum. We have more images from the track and windtunnel that we'll be sharing with additional info from the FB live discussion. Stay tuned!

[GoDadGo]

Dang Mad Dog,

You must have been reading my mind!
Thanks-N-Advance!

Steve

[crash]

I think what folks are getting at is that it would be nice if "breaking news" for FFR was posted first to their own forum where their enthusiasts hang out.

Like many, I do not do social media except for forums that are specific to the things I like. I know FB is "the thing" these days, but I find it just so annoying. I much prefer the focused information that is on forums like this. The problem is that if creators of posts/forums decide to use another platform to release news on projects, then this type of media will fade away, and I also find forums much easier to search for needed information at a later date.

Please add me to the list and suggest to Dave, or "the powers that be" that the forum should have the latest news items first before other mediums.

[Jim1855]

I agree w/ Crash. I like the forums, due to the directed nature. I don't do Facebook or other similar sites. Jim

[mburger]

Ditto what Crash said. Any of the FB groups, while MUCH better than the typical FB group bashing each other and their projects, are definitely less “focused” than here.
I will also add that I don’t think forum administrators should have to search on their own to gather new information on new projects and news out of factory five. Factory Five should be providing all of that information to them directly, first.

[Mastertech5]

Remember when we actually cherished our privacy. FB takes that away. In a forum situation we can control our info, don't get bombarded with ads, and don't get tracked for profit. I don't do "social merchandising media" either.

[Kasmodean]

I finally watched the Facebook video. It had a lot of information and I appreciate Factory Five's openness. I was shocked to hear Dave say there is a 60/40 to 50/50 chance of this car actually going to production. I don't have much input into this from a business perspective. I don't know their labor rates, overhead, cost of goods sold to figure out a reasonable profit and I don't know the demand level. The parts I do have thoughts on are their technical problems.

1) They had too much lift during wind testing: I thought they started the design from a rendering. If so, I am surprised they didn't do flow modeling or it was missed. They probably did, but had a boundary condition wrong. Modeling the internals of the engine bay and radiators does seem difficult. Either way, this seems like they should be able to fix this, either by trial and error (expense and lots of time) or more modeling. Dave was comparing the F9R to the Daytona coupe. He seems to want this to go faster than that. If so, he is setting his sights very high. The Daytona is a proven race car. I admire Dave's goal. But I hope that reaching or not reaching an arbitrarily high goal does prevent this from going into production. This car like all hypercars is going to be fast as hell. I don't know how much someone in the kit market cares about small performance differences. This crowd is just as likely implement a custom set up to make it faster than Factory Five is planning. Also, race car teams have million dollar budgets to nail the aero.

2) Body work free carbon fiber body. This idea is bad ***. I would love to see this. But this is a huge order. OEMs like Chevy can't even get 100% yield on their small carbon fiber parts. That is why they paint them and sell them at a slight discount. OEMs also have 10's, 100's of $M or even $B is design budgets. If this doesn't pan out, I hope he will consider fiberglass. One option is to have multiple body panels instead of one full body. This isn't a monocoque. By using multiple smaller panels, it will keep the molds simpler and if some part doesn't pass yield, you throw it away or paint that one part and not a whole body.

Just my thoughts. This is not meant as negative criticism, I mean this to be constructive and just food for thought. Anyone have any others?

[Jake From State Farm]

I’m excited to see this car take shape. I sincerely hope they don’t let lofty aspirations prevent the release of an otherwise awesome concept.

Remember when we actually cherished our privacy. FB takes that away. In a forum situation we can control our info, don't get bombarded with ads, and don't get tracked for profit. I don't do "social merchandising media" either.

If you’re on the internet, you’re being tracked one way or another. The difference is how aggressively that tracking is monetized.

[David Hodgkins]

I’m excited to see this car take shape. I sincerely hope they don’t let lofty aspirations prevent the release of an otherwise awesome concept.


If you’re on the internet, you’re being tracked one way or another. The difference is how aggressively that tracking is monetized.

Monetize? What's that? I gotta look into that....

Thanks!

[Jake From State Farm]

Monetize? What's that? I gotta look into that....

Thanks!

Oh you wouldn’t be interested in that. It might up the budget for car parts

[crash]

I finally watched the Facebook video. It had a lot of information and I appreciate Factory Five's openness. I was shocked to hear Dave say there is a 60/40 to 50/50 chance of this car actually going to production. I don't have much input into this from a business perspective. I don't know their labor rates, overhead, cost of goods sold to figure out a reasonable profit and I don't know the demand level. The parts I do have thoughts on are their technical problems.

1) They had too much lift during wind testing: I thought they started the design from a rendering. If so, I am surprised they didn't do flow modeling or it was missed. They probably did, but had a boundary condition wrong. Modeling the internals of the engine bay and radiators does seem difficult. Either way, this seems like they should be able to fix this, either by trial and error (expense and lots of time) or more modeling. Dave was comparing the F9R to the Daytona coupe. He seems to want this to go faster than that. If so, he is setting his sights very high. The Daytona is a proven race car. I admire Dave's goal. But I hope that reaching or not reaching an arbitrarily high goal does prevent this from going into production. This car like all hypercars is going to be fast as hell. I don't know how much someone in the kit market cares about small performance differences. This crowd is just as likely implement a custom set up to make it faster than Factory Five is planning. Also, race car teams have million dollar budgets to nail the aero.

2) Body work free carbon fiber body. This idea is bad ***. I would love to see this. But this is a huge order. OEMs like Chevy can't even get 100% yield on their small carbon fiber parts. That is why they paint them and sell them at a slight discount. OEMs also have 10's, 100's of $M or even $B is design budgets. If this doesn't pan out, I hope he will consider fiberglass. One option is to have multiple body panels instead of one full body. This isn't a monocoque. By using multiple smaller panels, it will keep the molds simpler and if some part doesn't pass yield, you throw it away or paint that one part and not a whole body.

Just my thoughts. This is not meant as negative criticism, I mean this to be constructive and just food for thought. Anyone have any others?

I love the CF body. However, for a race car, which is what I do, they are impractical. Unless FFR wants to send us a dozen bodies so we can keep the CF looking sharp, the fact that incidents occur regularly on the race track requires us to paint the body anyway. May as well be fiberglass at that point for our application. Wouldn't mind having a "show car" that is all in CF, but a race car doesn't really need a CF body. Now a layer of Kevlar? THAT would be helpful!

[JohnK]

Just curious (I've never raced so I have no idea how practical or impractical this is) but couldn't you just do a wrap on the CF body? This would allow you to change sponsors, paint schemes, or just slap a new wrap on a section of the car as needed rather than repainting, and you get the (assumed) weight savings of CF.

[Jake From State Farm]

Just curious (I've never raced so I have no idea how practical or impractical this is) but couldn't you just do a wrap on the CF body? This would allow you to change sponsors, paint schemes, or just slap a new wrap on a section of the car as needed rather than repainting, and you get the (assumed) weight savings of CF.

Carbon fiber consists of two parts. It’s a carbon mesh “frozen” in cured resin. Strength comes from the carbon. Shape comes from the resin. If the resin cracks (think light scrape) you can attempt to fill it in. If the fiber tears (contact at the track), your structural integrity is gone. It’s difficult to patch because the structural integrity is never truly there unless you can reconnect the mesh. Fiberglass is a little more tolerant of repairs where you layer over the damaged area, even though it’s the same fiber-resin concept. Even if the carbon fiber is fully restored to original strength, it will look different from the original part.

[crash]

Just curious (I've never raced so I have no idea how practical or impractical this is) but couldn't you just do a wrap on the CF body? This would allow you to change sponsors, paint schemes, or just slap a new wrap on a section of the car as needed rather than repainting, and you get the (assumed) weight savings of CF.

We have considered the wrap option, but frankly, it seems like more work than the paint especially since we change paint schemes on a regular basis. Minor repairs here and there would be fine, but changing the entire scheme would be difficult as we would be peeling everything off. Not that it wouldn't have some benefits, but sanding and putting a new scheme on is pretty simple. Also we prefer the polished, shiny paint as opposed to the usually less polished wraps that I have seen. We also have a guy that does body and paint work and learning the wrap technique would be a whole new thing. We just don't see the need. If you are talking strength to weight, 95% of what you get with CF one can achieve with FG if done properly, and at a much lesser price point. The ONLY attraction for me on the CF deal is the look of the finished product. Which, as I said, doesn't really work for me on a race car. In other words, we are likely to paint it anyway.

[AC Bill]

Comes with a warranty..just saying..

https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette/

[GoDadGo]

When will we see an update on the forum from Factory Five Racing?