HUGE MISTAKE Ford Explorer. Going in a different direction...

[David Hodgkins]

Happy to hear that it's ending well but what a pain in the rear to get there, huh? Hopefully whatever comes next is trouble free

Jeff

Feeling pretty gun shy right now, not sure which vehicle will take it's place. I test drove everything in the segment, but at this point we may pause for a while before going forward.

[Papa]

https://www.lemonlaw.com/carcomplaintindex.html

https://www.caranddriver.com/researc...reliable-cars/

[first time builder]

AS I had told you they had to replace my transmission in my 2021 Buick with 480 miles on it. Well 200 miles after getting it back the front wheel drive stopped working, car only went in 4wd. seems like an axle retaining clip failed ( or was not properly installed when transmission was replaced). The day after getting it back i drove from NY to Florida about 1200 miles with no problems and the ride quality and fuel mileage was great.

[JohnK]

I know some are going to flame for this, but we've had 5 Mercedes now without a single problem. Furthermore, the dealership experience with MBZ is unlike anything I've ever seen anywhere else. It's like talking to normal humans vs. snake-oil salesmen.

[Papa]

I know some are going to flame for this, but we've had 5 Mercedes now without a single problem. Furthermore, the dealership experience with MBZ is unlike anything I've ever seen anywhere else. It's like talking to normal humans vs. snake-oil salesmen.

Likewise with Lexus. They pamper their customers.

[David Hodgkins]

I received a revised offer today and a call from both Ford and the dealer. Both sides seem to be aligned. I went over the buyout cost and payment refund amounts with both sides and they are in agreement that I am at 0 cost so I've signed and return the offer form to Ford.

The last step is they will set a "closing time", essentially an appointment to go to the dealer, sign paperwork and turn in the keys and the free rental they've let me have for the past month+.

If it weren't for the fact that the Explorer should have been tested before being put up for sale in the first place, I would have to give praise to both sides for getting the buyback done promptly and without hassle.

I have no desire to get another Ford (that I can afford) so the $1500 rebate will go unused unfortunately...

Thanks for all (-1) for the support, and David (Papa) the links you supplied were enough for me to go forward with confidence and not take no for and answer.

My next update should be when I get the return date scheduled!

[RBachman]

I know some are going to flame for this, but we've had 5 Mercedes now without a single problem. Furthermore, the dealership experience with MBZ is unlike anything I've ever seen anywhere else. It's like talking to normal humans vs. snake-oil salesmen.

Dittos for us John, we've purchased 5 new in the last ten years and every single one has been a pleasure. Except one, and it was my wife's S550! Something failed that wasn't fixable in the shop. But THEY called us saying they were replacing our car. We were treated very well through the entire thing and did little more than signing some papers and ordering a new car.

[David Hodgkins]

I've purchased a Mercedes before and yes, it's next level service at the dealer. They did thorough inspections and routinely replaced a bunch of stuff under warrantee.

Unfortunately they are out of the ballpark for me at this time, especially while I'm trying to save for the F9.

[GoDadGo]

Dave,

I'm a big Mopar Fan, have a Challenger and a Ram 1500 so with that said, have you looked at the Durango?
Both vehicles sport the 3.6 V-6 and I have no issues towing my boats or the Cobra behind the Ram.
Also, Paul Borror had a Durango a few years back and I think he had good service out of it.

Congratulations On Ditching Da-Lemon!

Steve

[David Hodgkins]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I have looked at the Durango. I liked it! It, the Mazda CX-9, GMC Acadia, Subaru Forrester and Kia Telluride are on the current short list. The Kia dealer wants a 5K premium over sticker so unless I find a dealer more accommodating it won't make the cut.

Dealer premiums piss me off.

[Olli]

Dave, we have had a great experience with our 2014 Durango R/T AWD. When we bought it we traded in an Explorer that was nothing but trouble. 7 years and 66,000 miles all we had to have done were the rear shocks at around 60,000 miles. There is something to be said about a proven powertrain and the simplicity of port injection, and no turbo(s) or direct injection. The ZF 8 speed is simply fantastic. We liked it so much that when we were recently shopping for a new vehicle for our son we ended up ordering a 2021 Durango R/T Tow n'Go AWD. The R/T with the Tow n' Go (you have to love how Dodge has fun naming cars) is basically an SRT but with the 5.7 Hemi. 6 piston Brembos in the front 4 piston in the rear, multi mode Bilstien suspension, electronic limited slip, active exhaust that really snarls and can tow over 8000 lbs. Yes it comes with a class IV hitch and a built in brake controller ( what other mid size SUV has that?). Ours is being built right now and as of this morning it was "in paint". We should have it in 2-3 weeks. For pricing you should be able to get one for 1-2% below INVOICE. We got 1.7% below invoice. If you would like to get a minimum of 1% below invoice on a FCA product, PM me. Incentives are quite good as well.

The Durango can be equipped with some excellent safety tech. I really like the "Blind Spot and Cross Path Detection" (XAN) option. It is one of the few vehicles that not only give you a visual but also an audible warning. Add that option with the Technology Group (ADG) to give you some additional safety tech.
Go to Dodge.com to find out what specifically comes with the Tow n'Go

Here are a couple of You Tube reviews of a Durango R/T with Tow n'Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K7ukxcKfJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7a6h5YF-fU&t=322s

Olli

[GoDadGo]

Kia Telluride are on the current short list. The Kia dealer wants a 5K premium over sticker so unless I find a dealer more accommodating it won't make the cut.

No car is worth paying the sticker prices much less a premium over that amount.

Keep Shopping!

[RBachman]

Wow, that's a significant add on over the sticker for a Kia and in a few months the prices will likely drop as inventory catches up. I found this site useful in the past. https://www.truecar.com

According to Trucar, the average Telluride bump over MSRP is $2,114. However, they claim to put you in touch with dealers charging less. We buy more cars than average and have found it's much easier to do it remotely and online. It's an effort to avoid these unfair markups and common dealer manipulation games. Often automotive insurance companies have similar programs that cause dealerships to compete against each other more so than the customer. Cars are a commodity, so buy from the least expensive proposal. As a curtesy, we ask the local guy to match or beat the best offer. And it then becomes their decision if they want to do business with us. At the end of the day, they want your money in their bank more than they want that car on their lot.

Good luck with everything!

......The Kia dealer wants a 5K premium over sticker so unless I find a dealer more accommodating it won't make the cut.

Dealer premiums piss me off.

[Papa]

I've only encountered this type of a dealer markup once. In 1998 I was shopping for a Dodge Ram 1500. The big dealer near me had several on the lot, but was asking for $2-3k over MSRP listed as a competitive markup or junk like that. I contacted a dealer 30 miles north of Denver and drove off the lot $2,500 under MSRP. That's ~$5k difference for a 30-mile drive. With the technology available today, I don't understand why car dealerships are even needed. I can order on-line from any existing inventory, so why pay a dealership to sell me a car when I could just as easily buy direct if the industry would just evolve?

[RoadRacer]

FWIW I love our new (to us) Grand Cherokee Limitedbbought via Carvana. It was a beautiful process - 7 days to try the car and return it. Delivered to your house. No silly dealer games with pushing the paper across the desk with 'best offers". I got the luxury version for my wife, but it's plenty quick enough, and very comfortable. I now have my eyes on the trackhawk version

[JohnK]

I don't understand why car dealerships are even needed. I can order on-line from any existing inventory, so why pay a dealership to sell me a car when I could just as easily buy direct if the industry would just evolve?

I think this thread explains EXACTLY why having a relationship with a dealership that treats customers well is needed. Good luck getting a car that you bought online bought back via the lemon law if you ever have a major problem like David did.

I agree though, that going in and doing the whole "let me check with my manager" schtick is total BS. Just reach out to the dealership's internet or fleet manager via e-mail, let them know what you want, and ask them for a quote. In my experience, those folks are pretty no-nonsense and will come back with a reasonable offer pretty quickly without the pain of having to deal with the bottom-feeders walking the dealership floor.

[Papa]

I don't disagree dealerships are nice for trained repair techs and factory parts, but the sales part is becoming obsolete. The dealer isn't buying Dave's car back, Ford is. I think that would be the case regardless of how a new car were purchased.

[edwardb]

As Steve (GoDadGo) said, we had a Durango. Actually we've had two. A 2011 and then a 2014. Both the top line Citadel AWD version. Liked them both, but the newer one with the eight-speed automatic transmission was a big improvement. Especially when we towed the SE. Have no issue recommending the Durango. Solid car, nice to drive, ours were essentially trouble-free. The 3.6L Pentastar V-6 I think has a good reputation and I was always happy with how it ran and drove. Every year I read that they're going to drop the Durango because it competes with the Grand Cherokee. So they're basically stealing market share from each other. FCA recently announced a 3-row version of the Grand Cherokee. So wonder again what will happen with the Durango. They're built side-by-side at the same plant here in SE Michigan. No experience with the V-8 version.

About a 1-1/2 years ago we traded our 2014 Durango for a Lincoln Aviator. Basically the same platform as the Explorer discussed here and built at the same plant in Chicago. Which has had a number of issues. Ours has been perfect and by far the nicest car we've ever owned. But I was very aware they had significant launch issues and all the vehicles were going from the plant to a holding lot in Flat Rock (where Mustangs are built) and being thoroughly tested and in some cases reworked. I don't know any details about ours except it was built just a month or two before we took delivery. We took a chance because we liked it so much and so far haven't regretted it. Tows the SE like it's not even there. The Lincoln dealer experience is also quite a move up from the typical Ford dealership. Sorry to hear about your issues with the Explorer. But glad it's being taken care of. I totally understand after what you've gone through you wouldn't buy another Ford. But for the record, there's not a single brand that doesn't have examples of this. Unfortunately.

[nucjd19]

Wow. Things have changed. I have a 2010 F350 super duty Triton V10 for my horse farm. We have been using it to trailer our goose neck trailers for years and has been mechanically bomb proof. I was thinking of getting a F150 when I decide to sell my current car ( Audi A6) because I miss having the truck bed when I need it and want to sit higher; but maybe will peruse the market and follow reviews for a while before I commit. This has been quite an instructional thread.

[David Hodgkins]

I'm free!

I got a call yesterday to come in to sign paperwork. Basically it's just a few forms, selling the vehicle back to Ford.

I was presented with a check for expenses incurred so far, with no usage fees. Basically I got my 1st payment back. Down payment and tax/lic fees were absorbed by incentives so there were no out of pocket expenses there.

SO...

Now we try again. We are going to change it up and are now looking for something a bit smaller, although that Durango is still on my personal radar.

Thanks so much for the feedback and support! I love this forum for that.



PS when I get an Idea of what vehicles I've narrowed a new list down to. I'd like to post about how to get the best deal. Several of you made very pointed observations on how to go about getting the best deal, I'd like to lean into that conversation a bit.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Great to hear that you are coming through financially unscathed!

I'm not usually one to make recommendations because I don't typically stay on top of all of the latest models and developments but I can relate some personal experience. We don't change vehicles often but in 2012 it was time to put my wife into something new. I'd always heard good things about Subarus so we bought her a new Forester. She uses the heck out of her cars and they rarely stay parked long enough for the coolant to reach ambient temperature. As of today that Forester has 237,000 miles and the extent of the repairs is a bunch of oil changes, 3 sets of tires, several sets of wiper blades, 2 sets of brake pads, one tail light bulb and one front axle shaft. It went to the dealer last year for an airbag recall and came back washed for probably the first time in a year. That's it...the thing seems to be about as indestructible as an anvil. Take it for what it's worth.

Jeff

[David Hodgkins]

Jeff,

Thanks for the input. It is sound for sure and I like the Subaru. But as this car is primarily for my wife, per her wishes I spent a whole weekend trying to make a deal for a Kia Telluride. NO dealer in So Cal was willing to sell at less than $1500 ABOVE MSRP.

Yeah, well, homie don't play dat. Extremely frustrating!

On a whim, we looked at Tesla. Lesa went gaga for the interior and looks and I went gaga for the acceleration. So we placed an order for a Y with white interior($1K) standard range, 7 seater($3K) and with the upgraded wheels($2K)for a total of $6K in upgrades. The only way to swing the deal was to Trade in the Excursion (the beast), which they offered $7300 for. Not bad for a 20 year old truck!

But I love the beast.

So after some discussion, we stripped all options except the interior and are keeping the beast. The lead time was set to 2-3 weeks initially but since we cut it down to a very basic but popular setup we took delivery just five days later. And you can see in the background I still have the beast.



As you can tell, Lesa is very happy about her new car!



A few interesting notes. There are no lease buyout option on these. Tesla is building a fleet of driverless Y and 3's for a new driverless Taxi division. So we decided to go with a purchase. Time will tell how that plays out because when we buy a vehicle we run it into the ground. The last new vehicle I purchased was the Excursion in 2000. Well, not counting the Roadster but I had to build that!

Also, every person I spoke with at Tesla had an awesome attitude. The buying experience at a Tesla showroom is the polar opposite of the traditional dealer haggle and finance torture.

[GoDadGo]

Happy Wife, Happy Life!

[Papa]

Congrats, Dave! Looks like a very happy lady you've got there. I have talked to a couple of folks with different models of Tesla, and they've all raved over their cars.

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well there you go! Hope she loves it Dave You'll have to keep us updated about your impressions as you guys start to rack up some miles. The only person who I know that owns one is a guy who comes to autocross with us from time to time---it's a fast sonuvagun and he loves it!

Jeff

[David Hodgkins]

Here's another cool little tidbit. Yesterday (The day of the delivery) Tesla announced a $2000 price REDUCTION, After I had agreed to the price and just just 2 hours before the scheduled delivery. Tesla wasn't open yet on the west coast so I called a dealer on the east coast who told me that they were told everyone in the pipeline, signed or not, would automatically get the price reduction. Sure enough, just before I took delivery the price adjusted in my online documents.

Do you think a traditional dealer would have honored the price reduction?

[RBachman]

.........
Do you think a traditional dealer would have honored the price reduction?

Maybe if you knew about it, mentioned it, got them to agree to it and then made sure they didn't add it back in somewhere. LOL

[DSR-3]

Great ending!
Has she challenged you to a race yet?

[David Hodgkins]

Great ending!
Has she challenged you to a race yet?

I could take her. My roadster is still a bit quicker and she drives like a...

Oh right, like I'm gonna say it.

[David Hodgkins]

BTW We named her EEEVA:

[Papa]

Does that make your roadster's name WALL-E?

[David Hodgkins]

Does that make your roadster's name WALL-E?

Nah, doesn’t really match the look. I think what I have fits well, don’t ya think?

[RoadRacer]

Talk about both ends of the spectrum - a start-of-the-art electric and the largest truck/SUV ever made

[first time builder]

Keep us informed as to how much your electric bill goes up every month.

[David Hodgkins]

Talk about both ends of the spectrum - a start-of-the-art electric and the largest truck/SUV ever made

Sign of the times! I'm starting to wonder what it would take to go electric with the F9...

Keep us informed as to how much your electric bill goes up every month.

It will be interesting for sure. As is, we are not driving much and using a standard 110 outlet to charge it. Once charged the charger shuts off (unlike a battery tender for example so yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens with the power bill.