Shifter help

[818speed]

Has anyone used a Lotus Elise shifter for their 818? It would seem to work in theory, but locating a 5 speed version appears to be challenging.

I have a 5 speed transmission with the Zero Decibel bell crank and cables routed through my rear firewall. Unfortunately, I don’t think think the ZCP shifter will work with my bell crank and the Zero Decibel shifter would require new cables with bulkhead fittings on each end. Is the MR2 shifter really the only other option?

[Hobby Racer]

A shifter itself is neither a 5 or 6 speed. The transmission shift rods/gates determine how many gears the shifter can go through. A Lotus Elise's shifter would function fine on a 5 speed transmission if you want to adapt the cabling.

What is the ZCP shifter?

The Zero Decibel Shifter is a custom version of an MR2 shifter.

Any shifter can be made to work, it just depends on what your goals and skills are.

[818speed]

Thanks for the reply Hobby. I didn’t think there was a difference with the shifter itself, but I couldn’t find a definitive answer. I really like the idea of using the lotus shifter and handbrake, as then I can use the lotus center console. Do you think there would be an issue implementing the reverse lockout?

I meant Wayne’s VCP shifter, which I love the look of, but my understanding is that the left/right action is reversed with the VCP shifter so it won’t work with my Zero Decibel bell crank without modification. If the shift action can be switched without hacking up the shifter, I would be interested in going this route.

I have an SW20 MR2 shifter and was thinking of going with the Zero Decibel adapter, I’m just looking for something a little more visually appealing.

[818speed]

Here is a link to the lotus shifter for reference: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/...4EJYVleuO.huge

[fletch]

If you're using a Subaru 5 speed transmission the lockout is performed inside the 5th gear synchronizer hub inside the transmission. If it's spinning, you can't shift into reverse. Just learned that during my transmission tear down fiasco/party.
Disclaimer: This may not be true of all Subaru 5MTs. Caveat emptor, YMMV, etc.

[Hobby Racer]

Do you think there would be an issue implementing the reverse lockout?

fletch is correct, no physical lockout to deal with.

I meant Wayne’s VCP shifter, which I love the look of, but my understanding is that the left/right action is reversed with the VCP shifter so it won’t work with my Zero Decibel bell crank without modification. If the shift action can be switched without hacking up the shifter, I would be interested in going this route.

With the VCP shifter and rear facing cables you will need to reverse BOTH shift actions. I did this two different ways in my build thread. Its not that difficult.

[818speed]

Excellent! I really appreciate the insight from both of you. I’ll take a look through your threads and decide on the best route for my setup.

[Ajzride]

In my opinion, the best value for a shifter is to grab a generic Acura billet shifter from eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Billet-Shif...Cclp%3A2334524

[818speed]

Thanks for your addition, Ajzride. I’ll certainly consider this option too.

I’ve read over the post from last year on the generic shifter, as well as some of the older threads related to shifters and came to the conclusion that I’ll have to reverse the shift direction on one or both of the cables with another bell crank for pretty much any of the more elegant solutions.

Is there any reason I shouldn’t add the bell crank(s) to the shifter linkage side? I’m not entirely sure I want to change the ZDM bell crank setup, as I currently have fairly limited machining capabilities, so whatever bell crank that I grind out will not look anywhere near as good.

Any suggestions for off the shelf parts to assemble a decent bell crank? I would imagine that, at the bare minimum, it would have to allow for 3 inches of travel on each side. Obviously I’ll have to find a way to mount it to the chassis.

[818speed]

Found this kit, looks like it should work just fine: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Alumi...gaAn9vEALw_wcB

Any thoughts?

[Ajzride]

The one from speedway is what I used, but I don't think you need it. I think you can use the DBZ crank and just rotate it 90 degrees. See picture, you might have to bend the mounting bracket for the cable a little bit to adjust the angle.

Bell-Crank-Installed.png

[818speed]

I ordered the generic shifter with a decent shift knob for $130 on eBay and it will be here in time to put in some work over the weekend. I figured it was worth the gamble considering the cost of the alternatives.

Will I need to reverse the direction of the actual shifter since I will be routing the cables from the rear? Or will the additional bellcrank solve for this?

Also, I think I may just spring for the kit from Speedway, as the mounting bracket from ZDM is SOLID, I don’t think I could bend that thing with a hydraulic press lol. I’m pretty sure Racer had to make a custom one when he moved the bellcrank to the back.

With that said, if I’m all in on shifter setup at $200, I will be thrilled. Thank you for the invaluable input.

[Ajzride]

Can you link the shifter you bought?

[818speed]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224101701140

[Ajzride]

I think with that shifter installed for rear exit cables, you will not have to invert anything.

[818speed]

Wonderful. I will report my findings once the shifter comes in.

Any idea what size the female rod ends that connect to the shifter are?

[Ajzride]

No idea. I cut mine off and made mechanics linkage.

[STiPWRD]

I think with that shifter installed for rear exit cables, you will not have to invert anything.

The shifter in that link looks like it is meant for front-engine hondas, very similar to the k-tuned version sold by VCP. Compared to the MR2 shifter, these would require the side-to-side motion to be inverted at the trans.

[Ajzride]

I had to draw it out to verify, you are correct the rotation needs to be inverted. This could be accomplished with the speedway belll crank, rotating the DBZ bell crank 90 degrees, or by flipping the shifter bell crank upside down (but that would put the cable up high)

C62DDEE9-4A71-43C9-A489-08E8FC520901.jpeg

[Dutch602]

Has the shifter arrived yet? I'm curious to know if it seems pretty good and how much play it has. It seems to me that not only would the rotation have to be reversed but also the in/out of the gears. Do you have a plan for that or am I seeing it wrong?

[818speed]

Has the shifter arrived yet? I'm curious to know if it seems pretty good and how much play it has. It seems to me that not only would the rotation have to be reversed but also the in/out of the gears. Do you have a plan for that or am I seeing it wrong?

The shifter just arrived this afternoon, so I didn’t get to spend any time working on it this past weekend. However, it has very smooth operation, appears to be well built, and there is some adjustability.

I bought the Speedway bell crank kit and I believe it should allow me to reverse both the rotation and in/out, but I could still use more clarification on this too.

[J R Jones]

STIWRD is correct the ebay shifter is FWD and the same geometry as the Subaru. It does not reverse cable travel.
I do not see a mount for the second cable case.
A (rear) transaxle shifter pivots on the bottom of the shift lever and the cables are mounted to the lever above the pivot.
See Fletche's photos of the MR2 shifter for reference.
jim

[Ajzride]

STIWRD is correct the ebay shifter is FWD and the same geometry as the Subaru. It does not reverse cable travel.
I do not see a mount for the second cable case.
A (rear) transaxle shifter pivots on the bottom of the shift lever and the cables are mounted to the lever above the pivot.
See Fletche's photos of the MR2 shifter for reference.
jim

The MR2 shifter is rearward facing, but does not need a flip at the bell crank because the attachment for the cable is on the top half of the shifter above the pivot. On the shifter he will be using the attachment will be on the bottom half below the pivot point, that is why he needs a flip on forward-back action. here is what my bell crank looks like

Drivers Side Bellcrank.jpg

[J R Jones]

Ajz, Yeah, we agree on that. If you use FWD shifter one must flip cable travel of the fore/aft shift lever throws.
My brain(?) conceives solutions, usually complex solutions first, and more simple solutions after considerable thought. I have a plan to reverse the Subaru cable directions without levers. It is alternative cable mounting at the transaxle.

[Dutch602]

Ajzride thanks for the picture, I like that mechanism it looks nice and simple. Did you use a solid rod instead of cable and if so how did you route it?

[Ajzride]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Shift-Linkage

[Dutch602]

818Speed thanks for the feedback, if it seems decent I may go that route too. I'm still missing something though: based on the pictures I don't see how the side-to-side cable is held in place as the ball pivot looks to be on the outside of the shifter and the cable mount is more inward (red circles on image). Maybe there's just enough flex in the cable, but then the two cable mounts look to be in line and would interfere as well?? (blue circles on image)
Attachment 146636

[818speed]

The side-to-side cable is mounted parallel to the forward-back cable with a machined aluminum cable mount affixed to the outside of the shifter frame.
Shifter1.jpg

After looking over some pictures of 818 shifter setups the last few days, I've realized that the generic shifter I purchased is basically the same as the upgraded FFR aluminum shifter, just with a different base. The shifter I purchased can also be removed from the base, if needed.
FFR Shifter.jpg

[Ajzride]

Since I used mechanical linkage I did not need the cable holders, you will probably find yourself in the same boat if you use the bell cranks in the tunnel. You will use a floor mount cable holder and run some bars between the shifter and bell Franck and then connect the cables to the bell crank. I disassembled mine, cut off the cable holders, and powder coated the unit.

53D3A435-A00D-461A-909E-C7D9AC5EE7B7.jpeg

[818speed]

Since I used mechanical linkage I did not need the cable holders, you will probably find yourself in the same boat if you use the bell cranks in the tunnel. You will use a floor mount cable holder and run some bars between the shifter and bell Franck and then connect the cables to the bell crank.

I assumed that would be the case. Unfortunately, I have the clamp style cable cases on the shifter side, so I’ll have to find a way to mount them at the right height to connect to the bell cranks.

I disassembled mine, cut off the cable holders, and powder coated the unit.

Very cool! I’ll likely remove the cable holders as well since there won’t be any need for them with the rear mounted cables. I noticed the shifter base is wider than the transmission tunnel in the 818 and the holes don’t quite line up with the frame, how did you secure the shifter to the transmission tunnel?

[Ajzride]

My tunnel is removed and I welded in additional 1" square tube on the floor to mount the shifter too. It's all shown in the thread I linked above on the mechanical linkage.

[Dutch602]

818Speed are you planning to flip that shifter around so that the cables point out the back and then reverse both motions at the transmission with your bellcrank parts? Since the stick looks to point straight up and down in neutral I would think it should work just as well flipped backwards as it does forwards as long as you reverse motions at the trans like Ajzride

[818speed]

After thinking it over the last few days, I think I’m going to go with my initial idea of using a Lotus Elise shifter. The forward/reverse cable ball is placed above the pivot and the rotation cable ball moves in a way that won’t require modification to the ZDM bell crank. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a CNC to machine new brackets to modify the ZDM bell crank.

The cable mounts on the Lotus shifter are stacked in-line and appear to use a compression mount that will work with my existing cables. The lotus assembly is also very thin, which will allow me to mount it above or below the transmission tunnel without significant modification, plus the handbrake is integrated into the assembly, so I can cut down this carbon fiber center console and have a clean shifter/handbrake setup with a cup holder:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143528129973

My cables are just a bit too long to integrate bell cranks within the transmission tunnel without creating some serious bends after passing through the fire wall. I could probably easily just replace the cables, but the resulting look wouldn’t be what I’m hoping for.

I now have the generic shifter, an MR2 shifter, and two different WRX handbrakes if anyone is interested lol

[Dutch602]

What condition is your MR2 shifter? I'm still deciding what to do but may want it. Will you send some pics?

[prematureapex]

fletch is correct, no physical lockout to deal with.



With the VCP shifter and rear facing cables you will need to reverse BOTH shift actions. I did this two different ways in my build thread. Its not that difficult.

Just a quick comment, you don't need to reverse the F/R. There's a bellcrank built into the shifter, that's why he chose that shifter model.

[Neeraj Ahluwalia]

For my build I used the Acura shifter that you linked. I reversed the side to side shift direction using a bellcrank at the transmission side. With the shifter spun around 180 degrees, the front back motion works fine. It took a few tries and fiddling to get the bellcrank perfect but not it's great and has good shift feel. I shortened the cables myself and crimped the ends on in a vice, with some JB weld.
It looks great in my opinionIMG_20211006_125319.jpg

[Hojo]

Okay, I see folks saving money by using other shifter, cables and cranks in the back. I just want to mention again the Zero Decibel’s shifter and cranks is a flawless system that really looks good too. IMO. I took my shifter apart, grounded down the welds on the shaft and polished everything up to 3000 grit. The shifter and cables are out for all to see. DBB0B0A4-E574-4800-8879-79E931C3272B.jpg

[idf]

Okay, I see folks saving money by using other shifter, cables and cranks in the back. I just want to mention again the Zero Decibel’s shifter and cranks is a flawless system that really looks good too. IMO. I took my shifter apart, grounded down the welds on the shaft and polished everything up to 3000 grit. The shifter and cables are out for all to see. DBB0B0A4-E574-4800-8879-79E931C3272B.jpg

Sent you a PM.