Design Model - O's - Feedback and Suggestions

[GUNS]

I just wanted to re-iterate my love for the recent updates to Rodney's design. My hair is still burning, I think the car is the equivalent to using napalm gel as a hair styling agent.

Not only is Dave's goal to have a "light your hair on fire" design met with this, but I think it's as important if not more important to have the initial design for the 818 be from a design competition contestant. Not only for honoring the winners but the story alone is extremely press-worthy. Further, I think now during post design-competition time, I think the designers that stand by their design and don't give up are more deserving of the ultimate win of getting their work into production form.

Guys like Rodney, Vman, Nouphone (Especially Rodney and Vman) have been extremely active in the community constantly and very kindly listening to everyone, making tweaks and continuously working to make their cars better. That speaks to me volumes as a consumer. The same reason I enjoy FFR with Dave and the Gang being so good with the community and really keeping their ear to the ground for what their customers want, I think that spirit is an essential element to this car.

I hope FFR considers that story and spirit of never giving up in the end with this thing. That tenacity even after the competition has ended is the type of stuff that movies are made of and the type of warm fuzzy feeling I want to have in such a community. Kudos Kudos Kudos to these guys for that.

Well said.

[GUNS]

Rodney, where's the 3D spinny thing for this design? Don't you know we are all waiting? I know this is your top priority over your job, family, dog, eating, sleeping, whatever .

[ElderDragon]

If it is not possible to make a stowable hard targa top I like Draco-REX's suggestion of a fabric top for summer and a hard top for winter.

Has anyone made a fabric top with internal bows or ribs that has a strong structure when latched in place? For instance flexible longitudinal strips that flex downward as they are latched to the windshield thereby forming a stiffly sprung piece for the roof with a tight canvas.

[BrandonDrums]

I thought Dave mentioned the other models would not be going because of the lack of finalized details. FFR needs to show people a model that is complete with details, not one that is incomplete. I would assume this had a lot to do with the negative comments with regard to the lackluster first pics and the significant improvement with the addition of detail to jims design.

Wow, you would think because of the feedback on the silver car one would come to the conclusion that perhaps the silver car was the LEAST ready...

[apexanimal]

still lovin the red/orange one...


i want to see the track version

[Nelff]

I'm loving this even more! Looking at the back, any chance that a diffuser could be built into the black facia? It would be easy...

[adesilva]

Has Rodney stated that he will be revising the rear end as well ? taking a look at the rear of the blue car and the front of the orange .. they dont appear to flow very well at all. If you take a look at the orange design it also appears to have a spoiler/lip built in that isnt in the blue design.

[dclin]

This is a study to look at altering the low side window by raising it up. This may be watering down the original concept too far. That was not my intent, I'm just trying to mature the design and take some of the last objections away. What do you think? Is this going too far?

changed:

original:

What about splitting the difference and seeing what that looks like?

I don't think raising the beltline up an inch or inch and half would change the coke bottle look that some of us prefer. I think kach22i's version changes the original character just a little too much.

As for the rear - LEAVE IT ALONE! (other than putting in a functional diffuser as was suggested a few posts back). Actually, now that I think about it, the Hennessy Venom GT comes closest to what Rodney has done(meaning overall arch shape, not necessarily the rear 'fascia' :

[dclin]

Posting the rear 3/4 shot again, just so that I can look at it on the same page as the Hennessy

[dclin]

As for the side windows, is F5 actually going to have roll down windows no matter what design they choose?

That's quite a bit of engineering, especially as that I doubt any of the designs uses the WRX glass. Even if it was so, i couldn't care less if the window went down all the way. Cars like the Mclaren F1 and Ferrari F40 have little tiny inset window; windows that roll down 90% is good enough for me - I don't plan on hanging my arm out the side.

I like the idea mentioned somewhere above of a removable window with a sliding inset, ala Mclaren, F40, etc. I see this car, no matter what design is chosen, as a 4 door motorcycle; a X-Bow or Atom with a little bit more clothes on, if you will. The target is $15k; I'm afraid that with all the expectations to satisfy, its not going to be anywhere close to it (I'll come out and say it actually; the $15k target is only reasonable if we are talking about a bare bones car, with little or no amenities).

[Flashburn]

Please don't shrink the side windows. That will result in a lot of curb climbing. We likes to see out of the cockpit.

[GUNS]

I like the back. Whenever I look at it think about a straight pipe boxer rumble and that makes me happy.

[Steve91T]

Please don't shrink the side windows. That will result in a lot of curb climbing. We likes to see out of the cockpit.

Those side windows are relatively large. Shrinking the window by an inch or two isn't going to cause such a large blind spot that you are hopping curbs.

[mekeys]

The shape of the body is great.I don't like the FRONT or the BACK.
Just my opinion.

Mel

[Oppenheimer]

As for the side windows, is F5 actually going to have roll down windows no matter what design they choose? ... The target is $15k; I'm afraid that with all the expectations to satisfy, its not going to be anywhere close to it (I'll come out and say it actually; the $15k target is only reasonable if we are talking about a bare bones car, with little or no amenities).

You missed lots of threads on this. The $15K 818 weight target is for a bare bones roadster version. There are also plans for Coupe and Targa versions, which will likely cost more and weigh more. Stuff like Targa and side windows could even be options on the Roadster (again, at extra cost and weight).

[RonSchofield]

This is the 818 that I want to build. Exact colour and everything.

[nickarub]

The window fix does look good! I like this design because it has the most cutting edge look that will not get outdated looking for a Long time. To me it gives that small light 818 feel to the name. I always loved the way the Elise looks and this looks 10X sexier.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I have to admit that the original design was my least favorite of the winners, but I am really impressed with how this has been developed. This is towards the top of my list now. Its looks definitely match what I envision the 818 to be.

[kach22i]

Posting the rear 3/4 shot again, just so that I can look at it on the same page as the Hennessy

I took some of the overtly gestured curves out, and perhaps sucking some of the life out of the concept, but maybe it was a bit too lively for some to begin with. Did I go too far? Is it a boring sack of gel coated fiberglass now?

Did the lower door (see below), but did not put the new side vent in.
url]http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/[/url]

[prematureapex]

Are we looking at the same pics here?

Does it look "cool". Yes, very. Fine.

How about some praticality considerations?

How is it going to look with 16/17" wheels (overall diameter around 25") at a 45-50 offset? Horrible.

Don't mind requiring people to buy bigger wheels to make it look decent? OK, please provide me with some links to huge diameter wheels in the offsets illustrated, that are 5x100. What are we running in those pics, 305s out back, on an 1800 lb. car?

It's completely unrealistic in the fender department.

Windows larger than the doors?

Looks like a cartoon, something from Cars.

I like it, but completely unuseable without major changes, which I think will really take away from the "wow appeal" it has in its current form.

[Steve91T]

I took some of the overtly gestured curves, perhaps sucking some of the life out of the concept, but maybe it was a bit too lively for some to begin with. Did I go too far? Is it a boring sack of gel coated fiberglass now?
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...2i/Automobile/

The problem with what you did with the doors is you made a straight line. That's the only straight line, which doesn't flow. I think the dip in the top or the door needs to be split between what you have done, and the original. Still have a dip, just a small dip.

As for the rear, I like the original better, but just by a little bit. I don't like the straight line in the body above the tail lights.

Is it easy to slit the difference with the doors? I'd like to see that.

Steve

[BipDBo]

Are we looking at the same pics here?

Does it look "cool". Yes, very. Fine.

How about some praticality considerations?

How is it going to look with 16/17" wheels (overall diameter around 25") at a 45-50 offset? Horrible.

Don't mind requiring people to buy bigger wheels to make it look decent? OK, please provide me with some links to huge diameter wheels in the offsets illustrated, that are 5x100. What are we running in those pics, 305s out back, on an 1800 lb. car?

It's completely unrealistic in the fender department.

Windows larger than the doors?

Looks like a cartoon, something from Cars.

I like it, but completely unuseable without major changes, which I think will really take away from the "wow appeal" it has in its current form.

I very much agree. I like these discussions and tweeks, but major modifications need to be made. We are no longer at the napkin sketch stage. No matter how cool it may look on screen, if it can not be modified to the specified chassis, rollbar and track width dimensions with stock wrx wheels, then it is irrelevant.

[Steve91T]

Are we looking at the same pics here?

Does it look "cool". Yes, very. Fine.

How about some praticality considerations?

How is it going to look with 16/17" wheels (overall diameter around 25") at a 45-50 offset? Horrible.

Don't mind requiring people to buy bigger wheels to make it look decent? OK, please provide me with some links to huge diameter wheels in the offsets illustrated, that are 5x100. What are we running in those pics, 305s out back, on an 1800 lb. car?

It's completely unrealistic in the fender department.

Windows larger than the doors?

Looks like a cartoon, something from Cars.

I like it, but completely unuseable without major changes, which I think will really take away from the "wow appeal" it has in its current form.

I agree with your comment about the wheels. Throw stock wheels on it and it's not going to look right. Personally, I'm going with aftermarket wheels. I'm definitely not putting 20's on it though. More like 17, maybe 18's. I think the cartoon look has to do with the original front end and the swooping doors. These changes are giving it a more grown up, real look. It'll get there.

[Jeff Kleiner]

First of all let me say that I like the look and latest refinements but am afraid that these artistic renderings and designs may fall apart when they have to be engineered to actually work. The illustrations make it appear that the car is pulled in quite a lot at the waist (across it's width) and also that the doors are fairly deep (from the exterior surface to the interior surface). I'm left with the question of what the true interior width would be from inside of door to inside of door. If it requires the seats to be so close together that an average sized driver winds up banging elbows with the passenger it isn't really a viable design...

Jeff

[Oppenheimer]

Kach, really like what you did with the door. But what Steve911T said, its the only stright line. How about if you just keep the swoop, but lighten it by just connecting that door crease with the fender crease. You did that as part of the door raise, but what if you just do the crease connect, but leave the curve in place? Or maybe leave the curve, but not dipped as much?

The rear, also don't like the flat line connecting the taillights. But something needs to change back here, not liking the rear much at all. If we could find a way to take some cues from the Vantage rear.

PS, any time to work on the body colored roof? Wondering how that will look. Appreciate all your efforts here.

[bbjones121]

Straighter line in back looks terribly out of place with the curvy design. I wonder what Shawn's rear end would look like. I think all these mods are taking away from the "lurking eyes" look that was the original design. That is fine, I like the new front end, but back does not match at all.

[Psay]

The problem with what you did with the doors is you made a straight line. That's the only straight line, which doesn't flow. I think the dip in the top or the door needs to be split between what you have done, and the original. Still have a dip, just a small dip.

As for the rear, I like the original better, but just by a little bit. I don't like the straight line in the body above the tail lights.

Is it easy to slit the difference with the doors? I'd like to see that.

Steve

I much prefer the original door line over the straight line, it just doesn't work. I agree with Steve91T split the difference and see how that turns out.

The rear is much better but again the straight line just doesn't look right among all those curves. Could this be made to swoop down in the middle?

[kach22i]

PS, any time to work on the body colored roof? Wondering how that will look. Appreciate all your efforts here.

I'm just tossing out proposed changes here. "Mr. O" himself has the talent to gently arc the body panels half way in between and color them.

I have to do some boring code work now, and figure out how many toilets a daycare is going to have. Back to reality for me. Have a nice day.

[BipDBo]

First of all let me say that I like the look and latest refinements but am afraid that these artistic renderings and designs may fall apart when they have to be engineered to actually work. The illustrations make it appear that the car is pulled in quite a lot at the waist (across it's width) and also that the doors are fairly deep (from the exterior surface to the interior surface). I'm left with the question of what the true interior width would be from inside of door to inside of door. If it requires the seats to be so close together that an average sized driver winds up banging elbows with the passenger it isn't really a viable design...

Jeff

I made the same comment earlier, but comments on practicality seem to fall on def ears. What I didn't realize was that the car is not too narrow at the doors. It's too wide at the wheels, 12" too wide. I think that the first thing that needs to be done s to coorect this to conform to all of the 818 specs. Looking at this picture, there is still room for some hourglass shape, but it can't be as pronounced as the original concept renderings.WP_000471.jpg

[Psay]

I made the same comment earlier, but comments on practicality seem to fall on def ears. What I didn't realize was that the car is not too narrow at the doors. It's too wide at the wheels, 12" too wide. I think that the first thing that needs to be done s to coorect this to conform to all of the 818 specs. Looking at this picture, there is still room for some hourglass shape, but it can't be as pronounced as the original concept renderings.WP_000471.jpg

The width has been corrected see post 1 of this thread. You are right about the cabin width it may be a little on the cramped size. I just hope any revisions don't loose that hour glass shape because that is what makes this car for me.

[kach22i]

The problem with what you did with the doors is you made a straight line. That's the only straight line, which doesn't flow.

Steve, I think based on what you said and the image you posted that you did not see the latest image I did. I was editing it every 5 minutes or so this afternoon after lunch. The last rendition shows the straight upper door line and straight lower door line, which is current with the front 3/4 view of a straight lower door line (and black rocker).



To judge if these lines "flow" I think it's best to wait for a true side view from it's creator. I bet he has a few more tricks up his sleeve.

[VTX]

Ok, I will admit I had pretty much started ignoring this thread because I had written off your design...THAT will teach me LOL.

This KICKS *** and now I've done a complete 180 on your design. I love it!

[D2W]

Questions for Rodney O. Based on what concerns others have I thought we should ask you directly. Does your current design fit the chassis? Meaning is it wide enough in the middle for the passenger compartment? What size are the wheels and tires on your model? If they are far bigger than stock, can you model it with stock sizes? Thanks Rodney, loving your work.

[Steve91T]

Steve, I think based on what you said and the image you posted that you did not see the latest image I did. I was editing it every 5 minutes or so this afternoon after lunch. The last rendition shows the straight upper door line and straight lower door line, which is current with the front 3/4 view of a straight lower door line (and black rocker).



To judge if these lines "flow" I think it's best to wait for a true side view from it's creator. I bet he has a few more tricks up his sleeve.

Looks the same to me. Anyway, I know you can't do what Rodney can, I was just giving you some constructive criticism. I like the higher doors, I just think it needs to have the dip.

[Vman7]

The door top curve is misleading when looking at it from an angle shot. here is one of the side view and the door top curve works well, it flows with the rest of the car. Not sure if it has changed since Rodney changed the front though.

[RodneyO]

Questions for Rodney O. Based on what concerns others have I thought we should ask you directly. Does your current design fit the chassis? Meaning is it wide enough in the middle for the passenger compartment? What size are the wheels and tires on your model? If they are far bigger than stock, can you model it with stock sizes? Thanks Rodney, loving your work.

This is actually what I am currently working on; making tires that are actually scale accurate. I have been keeping a close eye on this thread to see what concerns individuals have and look into them while I am in 3d. These new changes won't be done fast because it is now getting to real world scale.

The renders provided were more concept ideas for the contest; but moving forward, I'm starting to pay close attention to mechanical work, blind spots, nose length, ventilation, etc. The one thing I'm not able to accurately give you info on is the chassis. I know for sure that the square wrap around frame has made it very difficult to design around. My hope is that this is one of the adjustments FFR will make because as of now, I don't know if it will fit with the current design I have made...or even any other's designs. If anyone has direct left and front photos of the chassis, I could use it as rotoscopes in 3d to see how bad things are aligning. This will actually help tremendously.

On other stuff, I have owned 2 FD RX-7s one R1 package. One thing I learned to love about the short nose in the rx7 was that I really had to go out of my way to scrape it, so my attachments to short noses comes from Mazda. Power to weight ratio is huge for me after owning FDs so I'm really excited about the 818. I would like to think that I'm mechanically inclined, the only thing i have never done is actually take an engine apart and put it back together. Sorry... the reason I'm bringing this up it's that I want you guys to feel somewhat comfortable that I'm not ignoring the mechanical needs.

Btw thanks for all the feedback and images created, those all help. Thank you.

[RodneyO]

Here is an Idea for Exhaust (3" roughly), and at least here in the USA most states you have to have a Backup Light.

Since I don't know the scale of Rodney's, I just did a rough estimate on size.

The Lic. Plate is going to tough, best place might be in the black panel right above the lower mesh screen.
Hard to get the size right without really knowing the scale. If I knew the size of the tail lights I would have something to go by.

Remember I just did the front pic and rear pic fast, but you get the idea.


Attachment 5768

Thanks for all the edits, these are great, I will try to apply some of these when I get to the back area, I also think you got some mad skills with photoshop, cheers.

[Niburu]

Rodney as a former FD owner (and 2 FC'S) I begin to understand your design work more and more.

[Vman7]

Thanks for all the edits, these are great, I will try to apply some of these when I get to the back area, I also think you got some mad skills with photoshop, cheers.

Thanks Rodney , I try to help when ever, where ever I can, I enjoy helping. Rodney if you need real world pics and spec.s of headlights, tail lights, BU lights (mostly Hella since you can get them almost anywhere) let me know and I can send them to you.

I think once you really "tweak out" this car, it's going to go to the top of the list for Dave Smith and FFR. Keep at it at the rate you are going this is really starting become my fav.

David

[Vman7]

I posted this in my Vantage thread, then after I wrote it, I thought I should put it here as well. To give credit where credit is do.

One thing I would like to say right now up front, I am paying attention to Rodney's car right now, and I think his car with a few refinements here and there and getting it to more "real world". I think Rodney's just may be a real winner. Since Rodney has used 3D he can pretty much give the files to Dave Smith and FFR to build a real good 1/4 scale and real full size model from. Just giving credit where credit is due. I still like Xabier's as well. The other ones are ok design wise, but as far as there skill level in design, out standing! I wish I had there skills at 3D Cad.

David