Summary: The wilwood parking brake caliper is scraping the inner wheel well.
The parking brake from FFR's wilwood brake hit sits a lot further away from the rotor than the main calipers; such that the top of the parking brake caliper is scraping the inner wheel well. In the pictures below you can see the point of contact as well as scrape marks in the wheel well. 20211217_130810.jpg20211217_130813.jpg20211217_130837.jpg
Being 17" wheels I totally thought they'd clear the wilwood brake kit. What are my available solutions here? Grind down the caliper a bit? Can't think of much else and I really do want to keep using these wheels...
I had the same issue with LMR wheels. I had to go to a totally different brake system. I would call Gordon Levy and explore your options. I have a straight axle so not apples to apples. But I know he has solutions
MK4 #10008 - Ordered 10/06/20, Delivered 03/03/21, First Start 7/22/21, First Go Kart 7/24/21
Paint by Metal Morphous 5/14/22, Legally registered 6/8/22, Graduated 7/20/22
Build Thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...been-delivered
Complete Kit, Ford 306, Sniper/Dual Sync, T5, Hydraulic clutch
The issue is the deep dish version of that wheel has a bigger drop center and has clearance issues. The non-deep dish version does not have this problem.
99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
2009 NASA TTC runner up-2010 NASA TTB runner up
Before I switch to a different e-brake system or wheels, I'm going to see if I can modify the parking brake bracket to bring the calipers a little closer to the rotor. From what I see the clearance is only off by one or two millimeters, so if I can bring the calipers in that would allow me to keep my current set-up.
I can't see the pad in relation to the rotor but I suspect your idea of mounting the caliper closer to the center of the wheel is the fix. I'd rather mod the bracket than the caliper. OTOH, if needed, grinding some off the caliper shouldn't be a problem. I have ground the main calipers before so grinding a park brake caliper wouldn't bothe me at all.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
I spoke to JohnK about this yesterday and he mentioned the new wilwood electronic parking brake kit. I'll call wilwood and ask them about the clearance on the calipers of the new kit and if clears the wheels, I may just switch to the wilwood electronic e-brake kit if it fits.
I spoke to JohnK about this yesterday and he mentioned the new wilwood electronic parking brake kit. I'll call wilwood and ask them about the clearance on the calipers of the new kit and if clears the wheels, I may just switch to the wilwood electronic e-brake kit if it fits.
I replaced the supplied wilwood parking brake calipers with the electronic kit. As far as I can tell, the red caliper portions are identical. The electronic brakes has a big chunk of an actuator on them instead of the cable lever. I had to swap sides to clear the springs.
After taking a closer look at the caliper, bracket, and it's spatial relation to the rotor, I've decided to taper down the caliper at the point of contact with the wheel by a quarter of an inch. The wheel well is tapered towards the axle towards the outside of the wheel, so only a small part of the caliper needs to be ground, not the whole thing. caliper_head00003.jpgwheel_clearance.jpg
Q: Why not just buy new wheels?
A: Due to the brake caliper scraping against the inner wheel well, there is now a nasty scrap line where the caliper contacts the wheels. I won't be able to return them for a reasonable price. Shipping them back would also cost quite a lot. I don't have another car that can make use of these wheels, and TBH I'm really fond of these wheels, so they're here to stay.
Q: Why not bring the whole assembly closer to the rotor?
A: There isn't enough free space to move the brake assembly. I've measured the distance between the caliper body and the brake rotor in its current position and there's maximum ~2.5mm of space. Bringing the assembly closer to the rotor risks the rotor coming into contact with the brake pad guide shafts. Not to mention the geometry of the caliper itself also may interfere with the rotor, and if so, will need to be ground regardless. inside_caliper.jpgcaliper_rotor_clearance00001.jpgcaliper_rotor_clearance00002.jpg
Now time for some misfortune. The bolt that secures the red painted caliper head to the assembly is near impossible to undo by hand. I used my vise to secure the assembly and used a lot of leverage (in the form of a big f***ing wrench) just to break it loose. In the process of doing this, I clamped too tightly on the piston housing and cracked it. Yep. Cracked it by clamping it too tightly on a vise.
Now time for some misfortune. The bolt that secures the red painted caliper head to the assembly is near impossible to undo by hand. I used my vise to secure the assembly and used a lot of leverage (in the form of a big f***ing wrench) just to break it loose. In the process of doing this, I clamped too tightly on the piston housing and cracked it. Yep. Cracked it by clamping it too tightly on a vise.
Damn that's unfortunate. I'm betting that is assembled with red LocTite, needs heat to come apart.
You're probably right. Should have thought about that.
Originally Posted by egchewy79
Man, this story keeps getting worse. Sorry for your luck. Why do you need to take the caliper apart? couldn't you just grind down the top lip?
I wanted to take the caliper apart to give myself better clamping points on a mill. I'm fortunate to have a friend with a mill he could use to mill off some material from the calipers, but there's no way he can mount the whole setup as is. The whole thing also looked simple enough that disassembling it wouldn't be such a hassle.
Most of us have something similar we did also, welcome to the club! When you get the new one, I would be more than happy to help you machine off the material that needs removal. Yes, I have a Bridgeport Mill, but I would not use it. I would clamp the assembly in my vise with soft jaws and use a 4 1/2 " flap disc grinder to remove the bulk of the metal, then use the Scotchbrite wheel on my pedestal stand polisher to smooth it out and fine tune the shape. It 's amazing how well the scotchbrite wheels work for shaping metal. They are pricey, about $60 each, but last quite a long time until the diameter is too small to be useful for most things. Most used tool in my shop by far! PM me or Email me, I think I gave you that info a few weeks ago, if you want to proceed with this method.
Cheers,
Dave
I wanted to take the caliper apart to give myself better clamping points on a mill. I'm fortunate to have a friend with a mill he could use to mill off some material from the calipers, but there's no way he can mount the whole setup as is. The whole thing also looked simple enough that disassembling it wouldn't be such a hassle.[/QUOTE]
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Mk 3.1 #6756 Complete Kit, May 2016 kit completion, Smeding Alum. 427 Stack Injection, TKO600, Custom Silver/Blue (SOLD)
You're probably right. Should have thought about that.
I wanted to take the caliper apart to give myself better clamping points on a mill. I'm fortunate to have a friend with a mill he could use to mill off some material from the calipers, but there's no way he can mount the whole setup as is. The whole thing also looked simple enough that disassembling it wouldn't be such a hassle.
That makes sense. I was trying to figure out why you were tearing it down. Hopefully Wilwood will get you squared away quickly.
FFR MK4 Roadster (9945) complete kit, delivered 12/4/2020, First start and go kart 5/7/2021. Legal 8/14/2021, Paint finished 7/18/2022 (Viking Blue). 347BPE CI, TKO600, Moser 8.8 3link 3.55, Halibrand 17x9 17x10.5, power steering. Carbon Fiber Dash. Carbon Fiber trans tunnel, adjustable Kirkey Lowback Vintage seats, Vintage gauges, RT drop trunk mod, FFmetal drop battery mod and trans tunnel, Forte front sway bar. Forte mechanical throttle linkage, RT gas pedal. www.covespringsfarm.com
Very easy to install and low cost. Push on the brake and close the valve then let off the pedal. To release, simply pump the brake hard and the spring loaded valve opens.
Dart Little M 406" SBC 800 HP N/A & 1,100 HP on nitrous, 2-spd Powerglide with trans brake, 6,000 RPM stall converter, narrowed Moser 88 3.90:1 spool with 35-spline gun-drilled axles & Torino bearings, custom parallel four-link, custom tube chassis & roll cage NHRA certified for 8.5-sec (only two FFR Hot Rods have this cert).
Very easy to install and low cost. Push on the brake and close the valve then let off the pedal. To release, simply pump the brake hard and the spring loaded valve opens.
Not technically legal in most states as a parking brake. In Florida, for instance the parking brake cannot release due to a leak. "The parking brakes shall be so designed that when once applied they shall remain applied with the required effectiveness despite exhaustion of any source of energy or leakage of any kind."
Not technically legal in most states as a parking brake. In Florida, for instance the parking brake cannot release due to a leak. "The parking brakes shall be so designed that when once applied they shall remain applied with the required effectiveness despite exhaustion of any source of energy or leakage of any kind."
How many times have you been inspected for that?
Mrk III, 331 stroker, Borla stack injection, T5, 3:55 IRS, Power steering and brakes. Kleiner body & paint
Most of us have something similar we did also, welcome to the club! When you get the new one, I would be more than happy to help you machine off the material that needs removal. Yes, I have a Bridgeport Mill, but I would not use it. I would clamp the assembly in my vise with soft jaws and use a 4 1/2 " flap disc grinder to remove the bulk of the metal, then use the Scotchbrite wheel on my pedestal stand polisher to smooth it out and fine tune the shape. It 's amazing how well the scotchbrite wheels work for shaping metal. They are pricey, about $60 each, but last quite a long time until the diameter is too small to be useful for most things. Most used tool in my shop by far! PM me or Email me, I think I gave you that info a few weeks ago, if you want to proceed with this method.
Cheers,
Dave
Hey Dave! Yes I have your contact info, please excuse me for the lack of follow up. Hope you're doing alright! As for the decision between mill vs flap disc grinder, I decided on the mill because I simply don't trust my own skills with a flap disc and my angle grinder. I'm sure I can get it ground down to somewhat close to the shape I want, but I wouldn't ever hope to make it symmetrical. So in my mind, using a mill will result in a much cleaner look. Symmetrical too! Perhaps I'm just not experienced enough with a grinder. I'll contact you soon!
Very easy to install and low cost. Push on the brake and close the valve then let off the pedal. To release, simply pump the brake hard and the spring loaded valve opens.
Oh that's actually super neat! One of those things where you look at it and say "of course this exists!" I think I'll still go with the parking brakes because I love the action of pulling the e-brake handle (just one of those analog things), but the knowledge of that thing's existence is valuable.
There's only one inspection that matters - the one when you're trying to get it titled/licensed. As mentioned, this is not a street legal setup in CA. It may work fine, but then again it may prevent you from titled/licensed if you get the wrong inspector. Your choice on whether you want to try to retrofit a compliant parking brake after the fact.
MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.
Thank you for the inquiry with Wilwood Disc Brakes.
Unfortunately we do not offer that part of the caliper for sale, we would recommend purchasing a new replacment caliper from one of our distributers like Summit or Jegs as their pricing tends to be the best.
99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
2009 NASA TTC runner up-2010 NASA TTB runner up
That's one of the many reasons I love living in a free state. The government doesn't insist on regulating everything you do. It took me less than an hour to get my FFR hot rod inspected and titled / licensed and insured (three different processes at different locations). I never had to pull it out of the enclosed trailer. No smog check. Didn't even check that the horn and wipers worked, the only required equipment on the inspection. A third of that time was spent with the inspector and later my insurance agent drooling over the car and asking questions unrelated to their inspections. How fast is it? How long did it take to build it? How'd you learn to do all that yourself? Y'all know that drill.
When I lived in SoCal, the guberment was hell-bent to regulate everything fun out of existence and mark my words, you live there long enough and you'll see a day that kit cars and IC engines will be outlawed. It'll likely start with regulations on how old a vehicle can be and still be licensed. Then a compliance date that only electric vehicles can be sold in the state. Eventually your gas and diesel powered cars will age-out and the only replacement option will be electric. I'm old but I expect it will be in my lifetime.
Dart Little M 406" SBC 800 HP N/A & 1,100 HP on nitrous, 2-spd Powerglide with trans brake, 6,000 RPM stall converter, narrowed Moser 88 3.90:1 spool with 35-spline gun-drilled axles & Torino bearings, custom parallel four-link, custom tube chassis & roll cage NHRA certified for 8.5-sec (only two FFR Hot Rods have this cert).
That's one of the many reasons I love living in a free state. The government doesn't insist on regulating everything you do. It took me less than an hour to get my FFR hot rod inspected and titled / licensed and insured (three different processes at different locations). I never had to pull it out of the enclosed trailer. No smog check. Didn't even check that the horn and wipers worked, the only required equipment on the inspection. A third of that time was spent with the inspector and later my insurance agent drooling over the car and asking questions unrelated to their inspections. How fast is it? How long did it take to build it? How'd you learn to do all that yourself? Y'all know that drill.
When I lived in SoCal, the guberment was hell-bent to regulate everything fun out of existence and mark my words, you live there long enough and you'll see a day that kit cars and IC engines will be outlawed. It'll likely start with regulations on how old a vehicle can be and still be licensed. Then a compliance date that only electric vehicles can be sold in the state. Eventually your gas and diesel powered cars will age-out and the only replacement option will be electric. I'm old but I expect it will be in my lifetime.
Amen.
Mrk III, 331 stroker, Borla stack injection, T5, 3:55 IRS, Power steering and brakes. Kleiner body & paint
Naz
It already happening. Some people are stuck with diesel trucks that cannot be registered.
That is why i made a road trip to Bullhead City over the holidays, just looking.
Florida was pretty much the easiest state to get registered in when I did mine. You only needed the MCO and one DMV form. 45 min in the door and out with tags in hand. Apparently, they changed that and now it is not so easy.
I spent 10 years in SoCal. DMV there is a circus. Not to mention that the state likes to regulate everything about everything.
I came back from living overseas and they made me get a learners permit, go away for a few weeks, and then come back and do the whole drivers test. Written and road. I showed them a valid New Zealand license and an expired SC license. Nope.
After speaking with Dave offline I was convinced that I can tackle this with an angle grinder. I'm glad I did! Turns out I greatly underestimated the curvature required. I had to take the caliper off a few times to revise the curve, but the end results works well! In the pictures below you can see the almost spherical surface I ground out using a flap wheel. 20220109_175753.jpg20220109_175817.jpg20220109_175829.jpg
There is a good amount of clearance between the wheel well and the caliper surface. I plan to paint the calipers with the same red (or as close as I can find) as the original caliper colours. The good part is that because the calipers sit at 12 o'clock of the rotor, you can't even see the ground surfaces unless you squat down and really try! Here's a picture of clearance and final result with the wheel back on: 20220109_175128.jpg20220109_175308.jpg
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Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
