Ted G's 427 Cobra Build #10333 - Aluminum Spats

[JohnK]

Speaking from personal experience, that rear frame section is not the most rigid structure to begin with. Removing the diagonal braces is going to make it far less rigid. However, from the photos posted above what I'm more concerned with is the bracing that was added to the forward fuel tank supports. Those are designed to be able to yield forward in the event of a minor rear-end collision. By adding rigidity to those posts you've made it so that a rear-end collision will crush the fuel tank rather than allow those posts to yield and allow the tank to shift forward.

[CABulldog]

I am not speaking from the place of knowledge, so this is merely a curiosity: is there a downside to removing the crossbar? If FFR added them, I suspect there was a reason? To help with rear end collision perhaps?

I am just wondering if there's a downside to removing them.

I doubt those bars will help much with collision, I was planing on the same mod on my frame as well. The best I can figure out is those bars provide the rear of the frame with strength to avoid flex. I would think that what Ted did would do the same thing.

I have 1 box for missing in kit items and 2 boxes of POL items arriving this week. I might also find some time to start a build thread here as well.

[Ted G]

Ted, I am not sure which is better, your trunk mod or them gauges! Both are stellar for sure. Having that extra trunk space and removing the cross bracing is going to be awesome for storage; I'm jealous. You are making this car your own and it is coming out great so far! I received my first POL box yesterday so I bet you will have some goodies arriving soon too.

Thanks AgileYety, I would love to know what you got in your POL delivery! I could really use the front upper control arms and some IRS part... maybe the gas tank as well.

[sam_sturdy]

We had the same completion date and I received the UCAs in my first POL delivery. No tank yet.

[Ted G]

Speaking from personal experience, that rear frame section is not the most rigid structure to begin with. Removing the diagonal braces is going to make it far less rigid. However, from the photos posted above what I'm more concerned with is the bracing that was added to the forward fuel tank supports. Those are designed to be able to yield forward in the event of a minor rear-end collision. By adding rigidity to those posts you've made it so that a rear-end collision will crush the fuel tank rather than allow those posts to yield and allow the tank to shift forward.

Hi John,

Yes, I thought a lot about the strength of the rear end doing this mod. Might be hard to see, but those supports are only welded together with cross bars at one point each for battery support and not connected to any other part of the frame. The battery support is actually above the IRS supports, so it will move forward beyond the IRS area in the event of a crash. This will still move forward very easily. Also, you can see that I added some extra supports in the frame to add rigidity to the rear end.

[Ted G]

We had the same completion date and I received the UCAs in my first POL delivery. No tank yet.

Thanks Sam, that is good to know.

[Ted G]

I doubt those bars will help much with collision, I was planing on the same mod on my frame as well. The best I can figure out is those bars provide the rear of the frame with strength to avoid flex. I would think that what Ted did would do the same thing.

I have 1 box for missing in kit items and 2 boxes of POL items arriving this week. I might also find some time to start a build thread here as well.

CABulldog, I am pretty confident that the frame is just as strong or stronger. I did have a concern with the fuel tank, but think my design alleviated that problem. I in the event of a minor rear end, the batter box would move with the fuel tank.

Did FFR inform you of your pending POL delivery? Nothing yet for me. And you really should do a build thread.

Ted

[CABulldog]

Did FFR inform you of your pending POL delivery? Nothing yet for me. And you really should do a build thread.

Ted

No I get alerts whenever anything fedex is sent to me so I got emails showing that Fedex has picked up with the information, FFR uses the references so I have 2 boxes that show POL items

[zee]

I doubt those bars will help much with collision, I was planing on the same mod on my frame as well. The best I can figure out is those bars provide the rear of the frame with strength to avoid flex. I would think that what Ted did would do the same thing.

Thanks. I'll likely add the Ted-mod to my list of mods :-)

[Ted G]

Another fun weekend finishing up the chassis with paint. This color is Ford Blue and is done in Farm & implement paint. This paint is much more durable and thicker than most. Although it is not as tough as powder coating, I think it will last years. I did the frame in four steps. 1st it was primed with self etching primer:

ChassisPrimed.JPG

After sanding primer and prepping for paint, I did everything but the 4" round tubes and round cross members. I had to protect them from overspray as I really wanted them to shine. Here is a few photos to completion. I think it turned out really nice.

FordBlue4.JPG FordBlue3.JPG FordBlue2.JPG FordBlue1.JPG

One of the big issues with this paint, is you have to wait at least 48 hours to repaint or the paint will bleed or bubble up. Learned that the hard way. I also had to paint that beautiful Factory Five logo on the IRS a different color... although nobody will ever see it, I know it looks pretty!! Also, I decided not to paint over the Chassis number other than with a clear coat.

IRS_5.jpg #10333RD.jpg


I also got my 25 aluminum panels back from the powder coater and polished several others, pics will be coming soon. Looking to actually start building this coming week. I just wish I had a complete rear end or front end to start with. I'm thinking about running some of the brake lines and fuel line before any aluminum goes in. Thoughts?

Ted

[Fman]

Looking great Ted! Nice work, that is not an easy task you just completed. I personally would hold off on brake lines until at least the pedal box was installed with your MC’s mounted. I would also make sure F panels were mounted. This way you can get exact measurement of your line lengths and connecting the lines up to the MCs. For fuel lines are you running hard lines to braided or full length PTFE braided lines?

[Ted G]

Looking great Ted! Nice work, that is not an easy task you just completed. I personally would hold off on brake lines until at least the pedal box was installed with your MC’s mounted. I would also make sure F panels were mounted. This way you can get exact measurement of your line lengths and connecting the lines up to the MCs. For fuel lines are you running hard lines to braided or full length PTFE braided lines?

Thanks for the advise on the brake lines and pedal box Travis. Omg, so many nooks and crannies on that frame. F panels will be installed next for sure. I'm not sure, but was thinking just running hard lines to braided. I think you did full length braided.... Comments and suggestions are welcomed. I may sneak a peek at your build thread and a couple of others. This is where the rubber meets the road, the build actually starts.

Just wish I could complete something right off the bat... POR list is not that long, but there are some key missing items in both front end, rear end, fuel system, etc.

Ted

[CABulldog]

I have been told by several people to not rivet in any of the panels for as long as possible that way you can remove them to install fuel/brake lines for wiring. This is the route I am going, I am drilling and cleco'ing all my panels, then I will make my frame mods, and have the frame painted, reinstall the panels with cleco's and start building from there.

[Ted G]

I have been told by several people to not rivet in any of the panels for as long as possible that way you can remove them to install fuel/brake lines for wiring. This is the route I am going, I am drilling and cleco'ing all my panels, then I will make my frame mods, and have the frame painted, reinstall the panels with cleco's and start building from there.

Yes, I think that is a good idea. Thanks,

[Fman]

Thanks for the advise on the brake lines and pedal box Travis. Omg, so many nooks and crannies on that frame. F panels will be installed next for sure. I'm not sure, but was thinking just running hard lines to braided. I think you did full length braided.... Comments and suggestions are welcomed. I may sneak a peek at your build thread and a couple of others. This is where the rubber meets the road, the build actually starts.

Just wish I could complete something right off the bat... POR list is not that long, but there are some key missing items in both front end, rear end, fuel system, etc.

Ted

Ted, I chose to run Fragola PTFE for both supply and return lines. So far they have been good with no issues. I did not see any reason to run a hard line but just my preference, plenty of builders using hard lines to braided. It would be tough to run full length braided lines without your fuel pump and pressure regulator mounted.

I agree with CABulldog use cleco’s when possible before permanently riveting any panels.

Sounds like you might be stalled out with front and rear suspension components? Can you work on pedal box?

[JeffP]

Yes, I think that is a good idea. Thanks,

This is good advice and wish I had followed it a little more closely. In addition to it, Make sure that you don't complete a step that might prevent you from getting that rivet puller in there either. More than once i've been staring a cleco thinking how on earth am I going to get that rivet. I've found cleco everything and leave it until you absolutely know you have to get the rivet in to move forward otherwise you won't be able to get to it.

[Ted G]

Ted, I chose to run Fragola PTFE for both supply and return lines. So far they have been good with no issues. I did not see any reason to run a hard line but just my preference, plenty of builders using hard lines to braided. It would be tough to run full length braided lines without your fuel pump and pressure regulator mounted.

I agree with CABulldog use cleco’s when possible before permanently riveting any panels.

Sounds like you might be stalled out with front and rear suspension components? Can you work on pedal box?

Travis, I think I'm going hard lines to braided for now. Yes.... my plan is to not use a single rivet until I need to. I'm probably going to start the front suspension (without UCA's) this weekend and maybe tackle the pedal box too!. I worked a few hours yesterday getting some of the cockpit aluminum in with clecko's so I can make some decisions on routing the brake cables etc. I like the way your ran your front's up above the headers. Maybe I can pick your brain on that.

ted

[Russwood]

I used clecos to temp all my panels on until I'm 100% sure of where every screw/hanger/etc. is going. I've had mine on and off a few times in places.

I also recommend getting all the hard lines routed/mounted before panels go on where possible. Again, easier to install without the panels in the way. In my build, there's a couple places where the panels need to be in final position before the lines because the line routes against the panel (under the foot boxes in my case). I'm not to coating my frame yet, so everything I've done so far is temporarily fastened.

You probably already know this but keep your brake lines to as much hard line as possible. Ideally, only use the high-pressure flex lines at the calipers, and use the lines that come with the Wilwood kits (or the FFR lines if you didn't upgrade). Run hard lines right off the master cylinders all the way to each corner. Too much length of flex lines in your brake system will create a soft pedal. I used 1/4" (-4AN) stainless hard lines on mine. Also make sure you use steel fittings and not aluminum on the brake system. Some say aluminum is ok, but I don't trust my safety to a soft metal where brakes are concerned. Even with manual brakes, the pressures are pretty high.

On the fuel lines, I opted to run hard lines as well, somewhat for looks but also for better resistance to damage. I ordered the EFI option, so I used the high pressure AN hose that came with that between the hard lines and the fuel filter/tank end and at the fuel pressure regulator (running a Coyote). I had to buy a few fittings to make the hoses custom lengths, but I'm happy with the result. Aluminum fittings are fine on the fuel lines.

[Ted G]

I used clecos to temp all my panels on until I'm 100% sure of where every screw/hanger/etc. is going. I've had mine on and off a few times in places.

I also recommend getting all the hard lines routed/mounted before panels go on where possible. Again, easier to install without the panels in the way. In my build, there's a couple places where the panels need to be in final position before the lines because the line routes against the panel (under the foot boxes in my case). I'm not to coating my frame yet, so everything I've done so far is temporarily fastened.

You probably already know this but keep your brake lines to as much hard line as possible. Ideally, only use the high-pressure flex lines at the calipers, and use the lines that come with the Wilwood kits (or the FFR lines if you didn't upgrade). Run hard lines right off the master cylinders all the way to each corner. Too much length of flex lines in your brake system will create a soft pedal. I used 1/4" (-4AN) stainless hard lines on mine. Also make sure you use steel fittings and not aluminum on the brake system. Some say aluminum is ok, but I don't trust my safety to a soft metal where brakes are concerned. Even with manual brakes, the pressures are pretty high.

On the fuel lines, I opted to run hard lines as well, somewhat for looks but also for better resistance to damage. I ordered the EFI option, so I used the high pressure AN hose that came with that between the hard lines and the fuel filter/tank end and at the fuel pressure regulator (running a Coyote). I had to buy a few fittings to make the hoses custom lengths, but I'm happy with the result. Aluminum fittings are fine on the fuel lines.

Thanks Russel, that's all great info. Yes, my plan is to run hard brake lines to each corner for sure. The last few days I drilled and fitted most of the cockpit and footbox panels so I know where I can and cannot run lines. All are off today and hopefully this weekend I'll get some line run.

Ted

[AgileYeti]

Ted! You're making great progress. Sorry for the delay on the POL list. It wasn't our UCA just yet, but it was my 3-link bracket, springs for rear shock, some bushings and toggles. I've been filling my free time with house projects and trying to get my garage in a fraction of the shape of yours. Your chassis looks awesome in blue! I sent mine off to get coated last week so just waiting to jump in once its back home. Keep up the awesome work

[Ted G]

Well, since I am missing multiple parts for the rear suspension, fuel tank, and front suspension, I decided to do just a little on the front end and the pedal box this weekend. I have been doing some polishing of the engine bay aluminum and adding some heat shields (mainly on the passenger side). A few months go, I did a video on the benefits of adding extra aluminum around the foot boxes where you can; I will add some around the driver's side, but it will be more limited than the passenger side. Here is that video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YgrlhVaDs

I installed all the heat shields with rivnuts attached from the inside of the pedal box. This allows the rivnut to be give the gap between the heat shield and the footbox (about 3/8") and helps the carpet have a smooth transition inside the footbox. Here is a few pictures of my heat shield plan:

IMG_4852.JPG IMG_4850.JPG IMG_4855.JPG

I also started working on the pedal box today, but ran into a HUGE problem. My pedal box main bracket was angled way off...like 20 degrees off. I had to adjust it and if you know that bracket, it is stainless steel and about 1/8" thick.... no easy task. Those pics will come this week; bending it to the correct angle caused some big scratches in the bracket..... so I decided to coat the brackets and will install this week.

I was very excited to start my front suspension and put together the KONI shocks. Although I am missing a few items from the front, I decided I could move forward. Upper ball joints and UCA's are what I'm missing. I also had a rough time getting the bolts to line up in the LCA's. I had to "manipulate" the holes as they just didn't line up very well. Not sure if that is a production issue in the framing or in making the LCA's. But it was very frustrating. I installed my front KONI's with the body up.... any benefits of installing it down?
Here are a few pics of the what I have completed on the front end thus far:

IMG_4864.JPG IMG_4861.JPG 67313297379__6074EF51-B385-4A26-BB5F-8FD21FF701CF.JPG

I am also starting to contemplate running the brake and fuel lines this week. Big Huge shout out to Travis (FMAN) for giving me the great idea of using backer rod for routing the brake lines and helping me to figure out how long of a line I need.

IMG_4863.JPG

Overall a great weekend on #10333 with a little frustration on fitting of a couple of items.

This week will include running brake lines, completing the pedal box and polishing aluminum.


Ted
#10333

[Springsyeti]

Looking awesome! We are going to steal some of you ideas and suggestions from others. Our front LCA's mounting bolts needed a little love from a dead blow mallet but went in pretty smooth.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I installed my front KONI's with the body up.... any benefits of installing it down?

Ted
#10333

The red body 30 Series Konis can be oriented with the body up or down so long as clearance isn't an issue. You realize that you'll have to take them loose to install the UCAs, right?

Looking good, carry on!

Jeff

[Ted G]

The red body 30 Series Konis can be oriented with the body up or down so long as clearance isn't an issue. You realize that you'll have to take them loose to install the UCAs, right?

Looking good, carry on!

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, yes I figured that, but just wanted to have something look somewhat completed.

[toadster]

those heat shields are awesome! I remember watching your video testing the temps -are you going to add any other padding in between like Thermotec?

[CaptB]

Nice colors.

[Ted G]

those heat shields are awesome! I remember watching your video testing the temps -are you going to add any other padding in between like Thermotec?

Hey Todd! Yes, I'll be adding thermotec in the footbox as well as Heatshield product behind the heat shields. As you can see, I made them removable in case of any fitment issues.

[Fman]

Ted, maybe Jeff or someone can answer this but does it make a difference with the adjustment collar up or down for easier adjustment? I put my shocks so the collar was on the down (bottom) side because it "looked" like it would be easier to adjust the ride height than having to do it on the top side of the spring. I had to adjust my ride height multiple times to get it all dialed in.

[JB in NOVA]

I installed all the heat shields with rivnuts attached from the inside of the pedal box. This allows the rivnut to be give the gap between the heat shield and the footbox (about 3/8") and helps the carpet have a smooth transition inside the footbox. Here is a few pictures of my heat shield plan:

IMG_4852.JPG IMG_4850.JPG IMG_4855.JPG

Ted, love the Ford Blue chassis! And the heat shields are sweet. One thing I discovered during my shakedown cruises is that the heat not only comes through and around (mainly around) the footbox, but also through the transmission tunnel. I was really surprised how hot the transmission tunnel got during normal driving. I insulated not only the upper panels of the tunnel, but also the entire tunnel from below, which really cut down on the heat coming into the cockpit. It made an immediate difference.

Another thing I did is line the entire tunnel (both above and underneath) with thermal insulation:



This really cuts down the amount of heat transmitted through the tunnel aluminum. I noticed the difference right away once I installed it. With the insulation installed, it only gets slightly warm to the touch even after vigorous driving, as opposed to ACTUALLY HOT without the insulation.

Just an FYI. Your build is looking great!

[Ted G]

Ted, love the Ford Blue chassis! And the heat shields are sweet. One thing I discovered during my shakedown cruises is that the heat not only comes through and around (mainly around) the footbox, but also through the transmission tunnel. I was really surprised how hot the transmission tunnel got during normal driving. I insulated not only the upper panels of the tunnel, but also the entire tunnel from below, which really cut down on the heat coming into the cockpit. It made an immediate difference.



Just an FYI. Your build is looking great!

Thanks JB, yes, I plan on using something there too. Thanks for the tip and the compliments. Tonight I installed my pedal box... that was fun! Pics coming soon.

[Ted G]

Well, I got a lot done this weekend but it doesn't seem like a lot. Waiting on the POL deliveries is not joke. My first delivery was my windshield.... definitely don't need that for a while. I have another three boxes coming, but not sure what they are but I heard from Yeti (10331) that it should be the Front UCA's. It would be great to get those, some missing IRS parts, and the fuel tank.

Anyway, I did get some tedious things done this weekend and I'm so thankful to some of you who reached out to give advice.

For starters, I tackled several tedious things this past week. 1) pedal box 2) running brake lines 3) polishing of engine bay aluminum 4) e-brake 5) blast gate ventilation

Pedal box was a challenge as my pedal box bracket was angled at 90*. I had to adjust it about 15* just to get it to fit. My bending brake was way too small for that task, so I used a little old school bending techniques... My Jeep... Wish I would have took pictures, but it turned out perfect after a few sledge hammer blows. I also had to paint it to get some of the scratches off and I wish I took some pictures of the process.
PedalBox.JPG

Then I moved onto the running my front and rear brake lines. I really had no idea how much I would enjoy this task.
FrontBrake1.JPG RearBrake1.JPG RearBrake2.JPG RearBrake3.JPG


I also worked on polishing the engine bay aluminum. I used 600 and 800 grit sandpaper (wet) and then moved onto my polisher. Each panel took about 15 minutes, but I think it looks great!
Polished.jpgIMG_4855.JPG

Since I'm limited to 10 photos, I'll have to post the rest in the next post..


Ted #10333

[Ted G]

Next I tackled the e-brake system. This was a challenge from the get go, but BrewCityCobra along with several others helped me out with good ideas that I think will work. The mounting brackets are actually bent just enough to tilt the whole assembly a bit further into the passenger side so that it does not rub (or grind) against the transmission wall aluminum. This worked out great as best I can see with minimal removal of aluminum. I also replaced the rear mounting bolt with a button head bolt that was placed on the bottom to help clear the clevis assembly that I purchased from Wilwood. Great thing is that the handle only protrude when engaged and is even more out of the way when disengaged. I think you can see the bent mounting brackets and the sharpie shows about half of what I actually removed.
e-brake5.JPG e-brake4.JPG e-brake3.JPG e-brake2.JPG e-brake1.JPG


Finally, I moved to the blast gates for the ventilation system. This is something that I am pretty concerned about as it gets pretty hot here in the Sacramento area and I feel any ventilation is good ventilation. I took a few notes from some others for my placement of the gates. I wanted the PS to be as far over as possible, so I had to do a little fabrication on that one... you can see in the pics.
vent6.JPG vent5.JPG vent4.JPG vent3.JPG vent1.JPG


Ted #10333

[JeffP]

I'm not sure what your engine/header combo will be but it'll be pretty tight on that drivers side blast gate.

[Ted G]

I'm not sure what your engine/header combo will be but it'll be pretty tight on that drivers side blast gate.

Thanks Jeff, but it is pretty high up and I saw someone else do it right at the "bend" there. We'll see I guess.

[Fman]

I'm not sure what your engine/header combo will be but it'll be pretty tight on that drivers side blast gate.

I have mine mounted in the same place, he should have no issues with clearance.

[Railroad]

I would change rear carriage bolt on e-brake to enter from the bottom. You will see why when the cables come into play.
Nice work.

[Ted G]

I would change rear carriage bolt on e-brake to enter from the bottom. You will see why when the cables come into play.
Nice work.

Yes indeed! I actually changed it to a button head just so I could hold it as it would turn in the round hole.

[460.465USMC]

Great progress, Ted! I bet your panels are going to look great with the polishing treatment you described!

The part I liked about installing break lines was finishing. Figuring out some of the three dimensional bends hurt my head!

[Ted G]

Another great and fun weekend it the garage!

I re-tackled the e-brake and yes... this is an issue and by far not a perfect set up. FFR should re-think this IMO. My previous post about this system was pre-mature and I realized I needed more innovation here. I took a little bit of good stuff a few mods and I think I have a well functioning, good looking modification of the FFR e-brake. Thanks to F-man, Brew City and several other who had good plans.

Bending the brackets were definitely key to the success of this mod. Adding the pulley system is also a must do. I wanted lower pulley so that it would not "rub" against the bottom bolt. I've seen a custom bracket to lower the pulleys and I've seen extensions on the lever it self. Both great ideas, but seems it's still not perfect. I decided to do both... a custom bracket to lower the pulleys and a very small extension of the levers.

Here is my plan for the bracket. I am using a 1/4" aluminum stock that is 3" with a 1/2" angle. I riv-nutted it to the frame with another bolt running through the e-brake bracket.

Ebrake1.JPG ebrake4.JPG ebrake5.JPG

Then I drilled the holes for the pulleys and decided to have options with placement. I purchased the Wilwood Parking brake kit to get all the parts (clevis, block, cables) - Quality stuff! You may also notice that I extended the tail of the brake handle, but only by about 5/8 of an inch, but it worked out perfect!

ebrake11.JPG ebrake13.JPG ebrake15.JPG ebrake8.JPG ebrake9.JPG

I completely clear the rear bolt on the bracket, I clear the 4" tube (except if I use the lower rear whole on the custom bracket), and the handle completely clears rubbing the transmission side wall aluminum.


Ted #10333

[Ted G]

I also completed all my brake lines this weekend, installed the PS Rack and started on the IRS Control arms. I'm missing my bushings for the center section, so that will have to wait. Oh, I also received my rear tires.... SEXY!!

PowerSteering.JPG IRS.JPG




Hope everyone has a great week!

Now Go Build Something
Ted #10333