Experienced Owners--How Will I Keep Myself Alive and the Car Intact?

[CP82AERO]

I'm in the middle of my build and enjoying the heck out of it. When I get to actually drive it, how can I stay out of trouble? I'm 62, an experienced driver with track days in other cars, and my hot-rodding on the street is next to nil at this point. I intend to respect the over-powered, 90" wheelbase 2300# car in the same way I did when I owned a motorcycle, but none-the-less in searching through the forum it seems that I won't be able to misstep at all without the possibility of dire consequences. I know I have to be smooth with inputs, respect the road/tires/temperatures--but what else? FWIW I will have the staggered 18" wheels/tires, Wilwood brakes and the engine is a 351W/427--good for +/- 500hp depending on the exhaust.
Thanks in advance; perhaps there's a link to a thread someone can point me to since this is far from a new topic. Finally, what tires are forgiving, and should I install a front bar to further encourage understeer?

Brian, San Jose, CA

[GoDadGo]

How Will I Keep Myself Alive and the Car Intact?

Just Drive Carefully & Don't Do Stupid Stuff!

[Just puttering]

Just Drive Carefully & Don't Do Stupid Stuff!

Speaking from (recent) experience ?


Use a rev limiter to begin with like Godad did!

[GoDadGo]

Speaking from (recent) experience ?

I didn't crash, just wagged the tale of the dog a bit.

[BradCraig]

Honestly not that bad if you respect it. I have no more than a beer out if I am driving the Cobra, alcohol more than anything will get you in trouble with these beasts.

Ties...I run R888R and they are amazingly sticky.

[Al_C]

The advice I got from an HPDE instructor was "go easy on the gas".

[Rdone585]

Even if you don't intend to track the car, it's the best place to learn to drive these cars safely.

[NAZ]

Just Drive Carefully & Don't Do Stupid Stuff!

Sage advice!

And as mentioned above, learning how far you can push your car on a closed course is far safer than on the street. You will never learn the limits until you reach them and doing that on an autocross course set-up on a large parking lot is much more forgiving than a freeway ramp or industrial street on a weekend like we did when we were teenagers. And if you get a driving instructor to ride along that's a great way to start.

[Gordon Levy]

Proper set up and respect.

[txboiler]

I printed and posted the following on my shop bulletin board. I go back and reread it from time to time

http://https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9926-A-few-reminders-to-all-owners-amp-a-good-read-for-soon-to-be-s

[edwardb]

I always have mixed feelings about these kinds of threads. I agree wholeheartedly that you need to have the car set up properly and drive it with the proper respect. Things can go bad in a hurry if you don't. But having said that, I'm betting you will be surprised how nicely it drives. I've told this story several times. I had never driven one of these cars until I completed my first build. A Mk3 10+ years ago. I had read enough of these threads that I was convinced it was going to take every bit of my amateur driving skills to keep the thing on the road and not jumping off into a tree somewhere. I was pleasantly surprised to find a well mannered and solid driving car that wasn't hard at all to drive. Granted, get crazy with the right pedal and things change. Especially if you aren't pointed straight ahead. So respect it and if you do no reason to be afraid of it.

One other hint. I'm an extremely defensive driver anyway. But when I'm driving one of these, even more so. People will get right up behind or next to you to get a look. They're small and low so sometimes people don't see you. It's not just you to be worried about.

[Derald Rice]

Everyone needs to know their limits.

And to learn those limits, start going to your local auto-crosses.....

learn the limits of both yourself and the car, and at the same time, have fun doing it.

[Jim1855]

As many have indicated, learn to work the gas pedal. Smooth and easy. I wouldn't restrict RPM, I'd build in a throttle stop and planning to do so on my build. It's not the RPM that gets you it's the instantaneous torque of a full throttle application, restricting the throttle is the key. Even then you can use full throttle if applied smoothly but it usually helps to have the wheels pointed straight ahead.

Good tires and being mindful of temperatures. Then there's rain, requiring a whole different set of tire parameters and driving techniques. Location dependent, if you're going to drive the car, sooner or later you're going to get wet.

Jim

[GoDadGo]

Shown below is best safety item that is installed on my car:

https://www.holley.com/products/igni...s/parts/8727CT

Just know you can't use this particular limiter unless you are running an HEI style distributor.

[Fman]

I had never driven a Cobra before my build, have 3k miles on the car now. The best advice I ever got with these cars is drive them like a motorcycle. I have had street bikes before and you must drive defensively like people can't see you and are going to hit you. These are not safe cars it is the reality of them. Always respect the car and don't do anything crazy.

[CP82AERO]

Thanks for the tire recommendation!

[CP82AERO]

...thanks for all your suggestions whether equipment, track experience or attitude. I live near ThunderHill and have some experience with this forgiving venue but might seek out a beginners group that has an instructor in the car and a ramp up to higher speeds as the day progresses.
Also, I'll be running a Holley Sniper EFI and so hopefully that translates into smooth, linear throttle responses.

[CraigS]

Everyone needs to know their limits.

And to learn those limits, start going to your local auto-crosses.....

learn the limits of both yourself and the car, and at the same time, have fun doing it.

Winner, winner. Track days may have their place but IMHO autocross is much better. You can get it sideways, spin it out, etc and have no injury to you or the car. You will definetely learn how to launch off the line too. All for <$50.

[MB750]

While I'm not yet an experienced Cobra owner, I have been a motorcyclist for almost 25 years and my plan is to treat the Cobra like I do a powerful motorcycle.

My current motorcycle is a 2000 Hayabusa. If that doesn't fix the speed lust, nothing will. I use it to tame the beast, which should keep my Cobra shenanigans at bay. Time will tell.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Winner, winner. Track days may have their place but IMHO autocross is much better. You can get it sideways, spin it out, etc and have no injury to you or the car. You will definetely learn how to launch off the line too. All for <$50.

Absolutely. I've said many times the only way to know the limit (be it you or the vehicle) is to find and exceed it---IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT! Besides that you'll have all sorts of fun

Jeff

[mike223]

Everyone needs to know their limits.

And to learn those limits, start going to your local auto-crosses.....

learn the limits of both yourself and the car, and at the same time, have fun doing it.

Winner, winner. Track days may have their place but IMHO autocross is much better. You can get it sideways, spin it out, etc and have no injury to you or the car. You will definetely learn how to launch off the line too. All for <$50.

Absolutely. I've said many times the only way to know the limit (be it you or the vehicle) is to find and exceed it---IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT! Besides that you'll have all sorts of fun

Jeff

+ another


One of the first things *most people* need to learn is you can't get the car crossed up and then step completely off the throttle.

Most of the time that results in a snap spin that is catastrophic out on the big road.


These cars settle down nicely with a little leading throttle - they get out of hand really quick engine braking in a corner or recovering from slightly sideways - faster than you can say oops.


Best place to learn it - 2nd gear in an autocross.



Know the limits, or do not come close to approaching the limits.


These cars can make things happen real fast.

[weendoggy]

I would agree to starting with auto-x, but for me it doesn't replicate the "feel" of the car in traffic. Now, I've smashed my cones, spun on course etc., but have spun on track as well. I tend to drive my capabilities and not the cars only out of respect and have lots of fun doing it while being in a closed environment with other vehicles.

[Mike.Bray]

Start out by pretending there's an egg between your foot and the gas pedal. Best advice I ever heard.

[AtlantaCobra]

you'll learn at what point the wheels want to break loose at heavy acceleration. Burn that into your brain. Of course things change with cold, wet conditions, but that was the first limitation I respected. Spend some time in a big parking lot breaking the back end loose and working on oversteer. The rubber you'll burn is well worth the investment.
Oh, and try your best to avoid Joe Mustang wanting to race you at every stop light. I get way more enjoyment giving him/her the head shake when they give you that "lets go" look.

[Hoooper]

Youre in San Jose, no reason to buy anything other than the best performance tires money can buy such as Toyo R888R or similar. You can get away with a lot more on good tires, you will find that you have to be doing something really really dumb or that it is cold/wet out (wet in san jose? yeah right) to get in trouble on a tire like that.

For me doing autocross was almost a double edged sword. I found out that I was actually taking it pretty easy on the street compared to how mind bending the lateral grip actually is. I still definitely recommend it, but maybe if you are on good tires try to keep it to how you were driving before finding out how good the car really is.

You can also option the engine control to be compatible with traction control, that obviously is a nice benefit if youre looking to keep the pointy end forward

[Fman]

...thanks for all your suggestions whether equipment, track experience or attitude. I live near ThunderHill and have some experience with this forgiving venue but might seek out a beginners group that has an instructor in the car and a ramp up to higher speeds as the day progresses.
Also, I'll be running a Holley Sniper EFI and so hopefully that translates into smooth, linear throttle responses.

I took my car out to ThunderHill last year on a beginner track day on the 4.8 mile loop, awesome experience and very fun to open up the car and start learning the handling. You cant get that experience driving around the streets. Definitely would highly recommend anyone doing this, great experience and definitely feel like I am a better driver with the car now. I was able to get up 110+ on the straights and was pleasantly surprised how stable the car felt at this speed. Hoping to get out there again this fall.

[wareaglescott]

Maybe I am just a wuss but all these comments about know your limit and the cars limit are fine and good but I would suspect a good many of us (myself included) dont even approach the limit during normal street driving. Now is you are spending time on a track that is a different discussion. IF you are exceeding the limit on public roads you are probably driving like an irresponsible A-hole in the first place. I find it very easy to operate the car in a manner that provides a great deal of fun, without approaching the cars limit. The easiest rule to live by is dont get to deep into the throttle until you are pointed in a straight line. As Paul mentioned above some of these threads are overblown a bit and you might be surprised how the car behaves. Of course I am 6 years and 11,000 miles into mine so it is easy to say that now and I was certainly more apprehensive at first.

[johnnybgoode]

I spent a bunch of time making sure I had smooth predictable progressive throttle operation. The last thing you want is an on/off switch. I also added a throttle stop under the pedal to avoid jamming the butterflies and tried several sets of return springs to get the feel I wanted. I also made sure I was comfortable in the car and all of the controls were where I wanted them. I swapped out the stock seats for a set of Kirkey low backs which hold me in the car much better than the stockers. The foot boxes on these cars are quite small and it's easy to get your feet hung up between the clutch and brake, I only have size 10.5 feet but with the small space, I either drive in my bare feet or in thin water shoes. A dead pedal is also a good idea. On the power side, you can always take a few degrees of initial timing out of your 427W and/or leave the stock heavier springs in the MDS distributor to slow down the advance curve until you get used to the car/motor. It will take a bit of time and trial and error but once you get the car set up the way you want, it will be a joy to drive. My 2 cents. Scott

[mike223]

IF you are exceeding the limit on public roads you are probably driving like an irresponsible A-hole in the first place.

Somewhat agreed - but a lot of people have gotten into trouble simply failing to recognize the possibility that they were a little short of traction (moist/cool on/off ramps come to mind), the rear steps out, they step off the gas - instant catastrophe - you're pointed backwards (at a minimum).


I feel certain they weren't all driving like irresponsible A-holes.

More likely oblivious to the hazard, symptoms, and proper corrective driver input.

Of course I am 6 years and 11,000 miles into mine so it is easy to say that now and I was certainly more apprehensive at first.

A healthy dose of apprehension never hurt anybody in one of these cars.

[bobl]

You do not have to fear these cars(respect yes)! If set up properly they can be driven easily. Get the stickiest tires you can and drive with proper shoes so your feet don't get tangled in the pedals. That's the most common problem I've seen with new drivers. As others have said, drive with awareness just as you would on a motorcycle.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

A quote I found to be true "You can’t be afraid of it or else timidity will prevent you from taking the decisive action necessary to stay out of trouble" Agree AutoX & a empty Big Box parking lot are good places to feel out the car.

Run almost daily when the weather is over 45*F & dry. Tires are NITTO NT-01 275X40ZRX17 - 315X35ZRX17

[CP82AERO]

Thank you for all of these great tips--hardware, techniques and attitudes--this forum rocks.

[AtlantaCobra]

i know there is a lot of talk about what to do if/when the rear end breaks loose. We've all seen those videos on YouTube where it gets squirrely and the back end starts whipping back and forth and they're into a curb or tree. The "rule" is to not let off the throttle completely and steer into the skid. I don't know if any of you have been in this predicament, but your natural reaction IS NOT to stay on the throttle. That would be a great thing to practice, if you think about it. Between the butt pucker and you're life flashing in front of your eyes, that's a tough one.

[GoDadGo]

The "rule" is to not let off the throttle completely and steer into the skid. Your natural reaction IS NOT to stay on the throttle.

You Mean Like This Fellow:
https://youtu.be/sYRN70r7Zrc

[mike223]

You Mean Like This Fellow:
https://youtu.be/sYRN70r7Zrc

I was thinking I saw somewhere that crash was caused by a rear lower control arm failure.

I forget the manufacturer of the kit - but if memory serves it used BMW IRS components?

[zee]

i know there is a lot of talk about what to do if/when the rear end breaks loose. We've all seen those videos on YouTube where it gets squirrely and the back end starts whipping back and forth and they're into a curb or tree. The "rule" is to not let off the throttle completely and steer into the skid. I don't know if any of you have been in this predicament, but your natural reaction IS NOT to stay on the throttle. That would be a great thing to practice, if you think about it. Between the butt pucker and you're life flashing in front of your eyes, that's a tough one.

This is one of the better videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ5leWLp65I

[nucjd19]

I have about 500 miles on mine so far with far less experience than the above posters. So this is only my opinion. So far my experience is it has been very tame and enjoyable at normal road speeds. It tracks beautifully through corners and tracks straight as an arrow down the road. I will not be pushing this rig until it is a controlled environment ( auto cross or track day ) and even then I plan on having an instructor with me. Having the forte mechanical throttle linkage is a god send as well allow very precise and adjustable throttle inputs. Anyway, awesome posts already made with great recommendations.

[GoDadGo]

I was thinking I saw somewhere that crash was caused by a rear lower control arm failure.

I forget the manufacturer of the kit - but if memory serves it used BMW IRS components?

Back Draft Cobras Use BMW Suspension Components:
I believe this is the video of which you speak:

https://youtu.be/CQkqkOwuqac

[skidd]

I used to obsess over mustang crash videos... Determined to figure out what the reason so many wreck. I knows it's inexperience , but in particular, it's the gear change. They are so eager to show off by keeping it going they change gears. It's that gear change that ruins 3/4ths of them. Either from the brief increase in traction between gears, or the increased lack of it with the higher wheel speed after the change.

[DadofThree]

I keep myself in check with a Stock 302 and a 3.08 rear end. The best way I know how to stay out of trouble. There's been many a time that I've dropped a gear and surged past someone to then realize THAT was the moment I would have "lost it" if I had a more powerful car. People say that they know their limitations, but I know mine too. I'm not smart enough to drive a powerful car.
I don't take on challenges, and I don't "keep up" when others are hot doggin'. I just go.

Get out there and enjoy yourself