Bob and Mike's 818Se Build Thread

[Oppenheimer]

I may have to use the ICE to tow the EV to the track.

This may sound silly to some. I'm thinking of mounting a hitch ball up-sided-down in the transmission mounting plate. Then turn the coupler over on my race tire trailer.
Bob

818 towing an 818, that will be a sight! A lot of people will be confused seeing that...

[theburner9]

My Powder coater just sent me some of the pictures. I'll publish more details later.

Attachment 23514Attachment 23515Attachment 23516Attachment 23517Attachment 23518

Did you have to get the frame sandblasted first? I've got my frame at the powder coater's place and he's saying the slag from laser cutting isn't ideal for powder coating. I'd like to think he knows what he's talking about but if no one else bothers blasting theirs then I won't either.

[RM1SepEx]

Blast it! the coating will stick much better.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Did you have to get the frame sandblasted first? I've got my frame at the powder coater's place and he's saying the slag from laser cutting isn't ideal for powder coating. I'd like to think he knows what he's talking about but if no one else bothers blasting theirs then I won't either.

He sand blasted first, then washed, then phosphate etched, then powder chrome, then powder translucent blue.
He has been powder coating for my business since 1997. But 98% of his powder coating is industrial machines and parts.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Has anyone thought about putting radiator on the back wall of the car above the transmission instead of in the front.
What would be the advantages/disadvantages?

[Frank818]

Usually that's not a very efficient spot, aerodynamics wise.
If they are in the back or 3/4 rear area, they normally are in a place where there's lots of air flow.

I did check about that and what I understood is if the car isn't designed to have them in the rear it may well not work in an efficient manner. I couldn't find many cars with rads in the back. It seems the Aventador has it int eh 3/4: http://www.carbodydesign.com/2011/05...or-the-design/

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Back on thanksgiving Michael and I made the decision to build our second 818 chassis a gas engine.
We are trying to have it ready for the coming Autocross season. So all our focus has been on the second 818.
Here are some pictures of the Electric version as it sits waiting for it's turn.
Bob

P1040674s.jpg

P1040717s.jpg

[wleehendrick]

Here are some pictures of the Electric version as it sits waiting for it's turn.

poor neglected step-child!

[ehansen007]

Nice 888's. Best looking tire out there.

[longislandwrx]

with an additional transaxle like that one, how hard would it be to make this AWD?

would the cost be significant?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

with an additional transaxle like that one, how hard would it be to make this AWD?

would the cost be significant?

I can push the motor intermittently with my controller to 250 HP.
The gearbox is 98% eff so 245 WHP.

My battery peak output is 300 HP. So no need on this car for another motor.

The original plan for the second car was 4 100Hp motors on each wheel. I have the motors and batteries. A custom gearbox would have to be designed. Something like the picture.
That plan is on hold for now.
Bob

dual motors.jpgdual drive.jpg

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Bob.

That motor/egear drive looks good. What do you know about the acceptable angles the egear is ok with regarding mounting? I read somewhere that is could be set at different angles. . . but I can't seem to find where I read that.
So, you must know Jeff Major huh??

[Gary Livingston]

Has anyone thought about putting radiator on the back wall of the car above the transmission instead of in the front.
What would be the advantages/disadvantages?

It's probably less of an issue with the electric drive vs an ice application. The heat dissipation for an ice is huge in comparison. If you have thermostatic controlled electric fans on the rad for your application, I think you could mount it almost anywhere. . . assuming it had free flow space around it and wasn't getting opposite air pressure from fwd motion of course. It would depend on size of rad, flow rate, temp delta required etc....to be specific.

[Gary Livingston]

Are you able to get the drive mounted so you have equal length half shafts?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Bob.

That motor/egear drive looks good. What do you know about the acceptable angles the egear is ok with regarding mounting? I read somewhere that is could be set at different angles. . . but I can't seem to find where I read that.
So, you must know Jeff Major huh??

Hey Gary,
acceptable angles are 10 deg to 90 deg.
angle.jpg

I got my start in EV's in 1994 working with Jeff on Formula Lightning.
BGSU back of racecar.jpg
And many other projects over the last 20 years.
That car is in a museum now. I must be getting old.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Are you able to get the drive mounted so you have equal length half shafts?

I can get equal length half shafts if I mount the motor behind the axle.
I think I have about 50 half shafts for that transmission with ford outers.
Bob

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Gary,
acceptable angles are 10 deg to 90 deg.
angle.jpg


I got my start in EV's in 1994 working with Jeff on Formula Lightning.
BGSU back of racecar.jpg
And many other projects over the last 20 years.
That car is in a museum now. I must be getting old.
Bob

Thanks very much, that's exactly what I was looking for.
LOL, ya, I hear ya. . .just don't slow down. I've not been in the game that long, but must admit I'm pretty hooked.
Jeff is a plethora of information. I learned a lot from him. He helped me (theoretically, I did all the work lol) make one 13" series motor out of a couple compound wound motors. He knows more about electric motors than anyone else I know. . . . and continues to help a lot of people on the DIY forum.

[Canadian818]

The original plan for the second car was 4 100Hp motors on each wheel. I have the motors and batteries. A custom gearbox would have to be designed. Something like the picture.
That plan is on hold for now.
Bob

Think you could fit it in the front? Not sure how simple it would be to move the coilovers. I'm dreaming of F1 style(batteries) KERS with Porsche GT3 Hybrid (flywheel, designed for F1) delivery. (ie. rwd going into the corner, awd coming out) Is this plausible, or a pipe dream? I guess anything is possible, and its being done in different forms with HUGE budgets, but how plausible on a DIY scale?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Think you could fit it in the front? Not sure how simple it would be to move the coilovers. I'm dreaming of F1 style(batteries) KERS with Porsche GT3 Hybrid (flywheel, designed for F1) delivery. (ie. rwd going into the corner, awd coming out) Is this plausible, or a pipe dream? I guess anything is possible, and its being done in different forms with HUGE budgets, but how plausible on a DIY scale?

Things are tight in the front. Coil overs, frame, and steering column are all in the way.
I would start from scratch on firewall forward to put 2 motors in there.

It is all plausible on a DIY scale because all the building block are out there.
Finding the time while have a job is the hard part.
Bob

[Canadian818]

I got time, but not a clue. I get confused reading Erik's thread every time. Can you suggest a book or resource to learn the basics of building a EV? I've tried some forums, but it's all over my head.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I got time, but not a clue. I get confused reading Erik's thread every time. Can you suggest a book or resource to learn the basics of building a EV? I've tried some forums, but it's all over my head.

All electric vehicle have 4 main components.
Charger, battery, motor controller, motor.
Then there 3 or 4 technologies for each of these.

Let me know what part you need help with an I will try and explain.

this was my first book 20 years ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own.../dp/B0015DRPHC

Bob

[rtz]

I have that book

You need to get your electric 818 going so you can get into EVCCON for free with it: http://evtv.me/evccon/

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I have that book

You need to get your electric 818 going so you can get into EVCCON for free with it: http://evtv.me/evccon/

I might be there.

[Gary Livingston]

Think you could fit it in the front? Not sure how simple it would be to move the coilovers. I'm dreaming of F1 style(batteries) KERS with Porsche GT3 Hybrid (flywheel, designed for F1) delivery. (ie. rwd going into the corner, awd coming out) Is this plausible, or a pipe dream? I guess anything is possible, and its being done in different forms with HUGE budgets, but how plausible on a DIY scale?

Stay tuned. . . it's coming. My build will be AWD (818SeX4).

[Frank818]

AWD? I was waiting for one to be made before I decided on my engine setup. Too bad I already jumped.
Make it great, we want to see that AWD! This will launch like hell!!

[wleehendrick]

My build will be AWD (818SeX4).

That will be fun to watch. When I explain the concept of 818 to people I always have to re-iterate, no it's not AWD, even though it's a Subie drivetrain...

OK, now whose going to be the first to try to build a hybrid? (EJ in back/electric in front)?

[Canadian818]

Stay tuned. . . it's coming. My build will be AWD (818SeX4).

Such a tease!

[Gary Livingston]

Such a tease!

I don't want to hi-jack this fine thread. . . and it's a bit early to start gabbing about it. Getting it worked out in my little brain right now.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Do you think they will let me compete in Formula E with my 818Se?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IptB...e=youtube_gdat

[Jodie]

I think I have about 50 half shafts for that transmission with ford outers.
Bob

Bob,

Do you have any plans to sell off some half shafts?

Cheers

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,

Do you have any plans to sell off some half shafts?

Cheers

Yes I will sell most. Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I haven't had much time lately to work on my electric 818.
But it looks like I made it into a movie for about 1 second.

http://www.traileraddict.com/on-any-...hapter/trailer

I was congratulating Carlin Dunne after our Pike Peak Victory last summer. (fastest motorcycle up the mountain)
Looks like a good movie to me.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm Hijacking my own thread.
My 818 progress has been slow because of other projects.
This weekend we introduced our new electric superbike at the Quail Motorcycle Gathering.
Called the LS-218 (after the speed we achieved at Bonneville) This is very similar to the bike that won with at Pikes Peak last summer.




He is my an article about it.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...c-superbike-2/

Bob

[Frank818]

218mph????

[Bob_n_Cincy]

218mph????

yes, the 2 way average was 215.960MPH
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/24...rd-to-215-960/

More info if you interested
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/news/
Bob

[Frank818]

Jesus, that is quick! That is freaking quick on a bike!

Is that bike streetable and for sale? I mean the blue one, not the black one on your green.autoblog link.
Actually, the blue one went up to 218 as well?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Jesus, that is quick! That is freaking quick on a bike!

Is that bike streetable and for sale? I mean the blue one, not the black one on your green.autoblog link.
Actually, the blue one went up to 218 as well?

Yes and Yes, 38k for the worlds fastest production Motorcycle.
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/reserve-now/

Blue one is latest greatest. The land speed bike was an earlier prototype. I think the land speed bike is the one in my profile.

On of my favorite pictures after winning the 2010 TTXGP national championship at VIR.
Richard Hatfield (lightning CEO) Jeff Major (EV Guru) Stephanie (Daughter) Michael (Son) and Myself.
Not Pictured is our rider Michael Barnes (Barney)
VIR2010.jpg

[metalmaker12]

Wow

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The sound of future racing.
Here is a clip from this years IOM race.
First 2 bike are electric and the 3rd on is gas.


I will have 818 of both types.
Bob

[Jaime]

Not trying to downplay 218, because it's really fast. But, to put it in perspective, my fifteen year old Hayabusa could do 196 straight out of the showroom. A $3500 turbo kit later and you have 220.

In the early 2000's when I used to be into this stuff, Lee Shierts did 250 at Maxton, which is only a mile long with limited shutdown room. A streetable bike did 272 last year. The crazy part about Maxton is that your top speed isn't limited by power, but by brakes and craziness. You can only go so fast because the shutdown area has a turn a half mile into it.