Honolulu 818S Hana (work/build) Thread

[AZPete]

Thanks so much for detailing your body mods with materials and tips! This will be a huge help as I have no experience with fiberglass either, and I'm following your build carefully. I don't have a Hula Girl for motivation, so I'm slower.

[Xusia]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a void?

[Aloha818]

Thanks so much for detailing your body mods with materials and tips! This will be a huge help as I have no experience with fiberglass either, and I'm following your build carefully. I don't have a Hula Girl for motivation, so I'm slower.

Your welcome and thanks for letting me know that what I'm posting is a benefit. I was sort of anxious about working with fiberglass, but it's easier than I thought. That is if you plan your time well, make sure everything is clean and mix the right ratios's. The MEKP is measured in drops, so very small changes in the ratio make a big difference to how much time you have to work it before it starts to gel.

[Aloha818]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a void?

No ignorance, maybe my bad photography and/or explanation!

This is a pic if the forward trunk lid, leading edge that meets the top of the door. In this pic the panel is upside down. I ground off the gel coat to prep for building up this area with fiberglass to close the gap to the door. The void (air pocket in gel coat/fiberglass) I am talking about is the area from the point if the arrows to the white line of the gel coat. The void is about 1/8" tall by about 1/8" deep. If you look at the bottom left corner you can see where the gel coat had chipped off. FYI the gel coat had chipped off before I started grinding on it.

image.jpg

[Xusia]

...(air pocket in gel coat/fiberglass)...

Gotcha

[Wayne Presley]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a void?

They spray the gel coat in the mold first, then the glass goes on top of it. The trick is to get the resin to go on with no air bubbles in the resin itself or trap air between the glass and gel coat. Easier said than done.

[Aloha818]

They spray the gel coat in the mold first, then the glass goes on top of it. The trick is to get the resin to go on with no air bubbles in the resin itself or trap air between the glass and gel coat. Easier said than done.

Wayne, thanks for elaborating.

So anyone painting their 818 needs to try and find any and all of these voids during the prep stage, or discover later and ruin the paint job.

[Aloha818]

I realized today I will never get finished building my 818. Every step I come to I see an opportunity to modify!

As I mentioned earlier, my guiding principal in building is to try and look as OEM as possible. I had installed the FFR license plate bracket between the back up lights (in previous pics). To me it looked like an after thought. Since a rear plate is required I started looking at how other cars have their plates mounted. It seems every car manufacture has some sort of recessed area with some design element to it. So here is what I came up with

image.jpg

I kind of drew different angles and lines to try and match the FFR lines, and then opposite, then ended up with what I marked above. Then I started cutting and made up some aluminum angle brackets and 5 min epoxy in to hold in place during the fiberglass lay up.

image.jpg

The final design is that the top and bottom will go straight in, the bottom goes back 3/4" the top 1 1/2". The bottom of each side will tapper in on each side by 3/8" and the top side about 1" in on each side.

I should have it glassed in by Wednesday and will post the progress. I guess I'm not so intimidated by fiberglass work now so seems pretty easy now, just itchy!

[longislandwrx]

That.... is impressive. The way it catches all the lines, matches the taillight recesses. Absolutely awesome, what an improvement! You are going to make the people who painted already wish they hadn't. Slow clap. Well done sir.

[Santiago]

Agreed. Well played. If you're going to keep the upper panel, might as well sculpt it so it's not just a flat blank (for reference, FFR's early red S-car always bothered me here). This is a great improvement.

I actually like the hanging plate in its mock up stage. You (or like-minded others) might consider using mesh to hold it in rather than a solid fiberglass recess. Same lines, same planes, just use a mesh or perforated metal sheet. I think Ferrari is fond of this styling technique, so you can look into their rear-styling for cues. Just a thought. I think it'll be great anyway you take it.

Best,
-j

[temperacerguy]

I don't post much on here, but I wanted to say congratulations to you for such detailed write ups, and for sharing your thoughts throughout. I also have to give you kudos for jumping in with both feet into areas that you are unfamiliar with.

Just a hint to you, and others on this site. The human body's tolerance for MEKP is ZERO. I once saw a guy die who had ingested a small amount of MEKP, it was agonizing. be very careful with it.

[Santiago]

Forgot to mention, for this license plate mod, this is where a fabric cloth works much better than mat. Fabrics take on curves very well and you can actually use that quality to your advantage to quickly create the recess. As you are learning, working with fiberglass affords you many techniques to get a given job done. Here's how I would approach this (take it for what it's worth):
Practice Run
- trace outline of inner recess onto wood panel (to use as part of buck)
- lay fabric over opening, tape down edges onto gel coat (this is a practice run, so you're just seeing how the fabric will shape)
- lay wood panel in center, position as necessary, weigh down with something
You should see that the fabric will take on compound curves and perfectly match the inner recessed panel. Adjust as desired. Ideally, you would have a back up plank of wood or something, so that when you weigh down the inner wood buck it lays flat on the back up panel without shifting itself around. You'll use this later as well when laying down the initial resin.

1st Resin Run:
- sand down gel coat 2-3" around perimeter of opening
- lay fabric out as before
- weigh down or (better) screw in the inner wood buck to the back-up plank
- gently apply resin (not a ton, just enough to get glass wet, not even thoroughly wetted out), make sure it makes good contact w/sanded perimeter
- let set up and harden to partial cure
- apply more resin to fully wet out
- let set up
The concern initially is that the resin has enough weight to make the fabric sag and lose those nice planes it creates under tension. We used to do this sort of technique for woofer boxes, only we used heavy cloths (and even so, a little "sag" was part of the more organic/compound shape that was desired). I've done this with spandex as well, since it takes a very taut shape, but it is also very weight sensitive. So you want just enough at first to make the fabric stiffen up a bit, then it's ok to hit it with more resin.

After that, you can just grind off the excess fabric from the perimeter and start laying in additional layers from front/back as desired. I think once you go cloth for giving shape, you're very hesitant to do mat unless you want to quickly build up thickness.

Best,
-j

[longislandwrx]

You (or like-minded others) might consider using mesh to hold it in rather than a solid fiberglass recess.

Funny you mentioned that because I almost posted the same thing. I think he's got the right idea doing it solid first for strength though. If you choose to cut it out later and add mesh you can do it like the lower opening.

[Wayne Presley]

Wayne, thanks for elaborating.

So anyone painting their 818 needs to try and find any and all of these voids during the prep stage, or discover later and ruin the paint job.

An easy way to find them is to shine a bright light from the back side of the panel, the voids will show up as light areas.

[Mechie3]

I started sanding down the lip on the trunk yesterday so it would sit flat and noticed quite a few areas where there was a gap between the gel coat and the resin. A few corners of some body panels had even chipped in shipping due to voids.

[ehansen007]

Love all this glass work. Almost makes me want to get started with it!

[metalmaker12]

Yea the light trick works well!! I used a light trick in the past and on these panels is a must. I am about to de mount panels and have at it

[Scargo]

Needs to be vacuum-bagged? I expect this from aftermarket FRP. Seems like the norm. I can't wait to start.

[VD2021]

I realized today I will never get finished building my 818. Every step I come to I see an opportunity to modify!

Yeah. Makes the build seem to go on forever and quickly destroys the original budget. But it will be that much more enjoyable because you built it according to your vision.

As I mentioned earlier, my guiding principal in building is to try and look as OEM as possible.

Nice. That's the theme I have for my GTM build.

You're definitely on the right track. Your dual hoop mod is huge for the appearance. It really removes the "kit" look.

The small details like, the rear plate area and side markers really help bring an OEM or production auto them to fruition.

Great job!

[Aloha818]

That.... is impressive. The way it catches all the lines, matches the taillight recesses. Absolutely awesome, what an improvement! You are going to make the people who painted already wish they hadn't. Slow clap. Well done sir.

Agreed. Well played. If you're going to keep the upper panel, might as well sculpt it so it's not just a flat blank (for reference, FFR's early red S-car always bothered me here). This is a great improvement.

I actually like the hanging plate in its mock up stage. You (or like-minded others) might consider using mesh to hold it in rather than a solid fiberglass recess. Same lines, same planes, just use a mesh or perforated metal sheet. I think Ferrari is fond of this styling technique, so you can look into their rear-styling for cues. Just a thought. I think it'll be great anyway you take it.

Best,
-j

I don't post much on here, but I wanted to say congratulations to you for such detailed write ups, and for sharing your thoughts throughout. I also have to give you kudos for jumping in with both feet into areas that you are unfamiliar with.

Just a hint to you, and others on this site. The human body's tolerance for MEKP is ZERO. I once saw a guy die who had ingested a small amount of MEKP, it was agonizing. be very careful with it.

Love all this glass work. Almost makes me want to get started with it!

Yeah. Makes the build seem to go on forever and quickly destroys the original budget. But it will be that much more enjoyable because you built it according to your vision.




Nice. That's the theme I have for my GTM build.

You're definitely on the right track. Your dual hoop mod is huge for the appearance. It really removes the "kit" look.

The small details like, the rear plate area and side markers really help bring an OEM or production auto them to fruition.

Great job!

As always, thanks so much guys for taking the time to read about my progress and make positive comments! I'm glad that I'm not alone in thinking this mod will look good and not a mistake.

I didn't think about using mesh. That could look really great. I hope someone takes the initiative and tries it.

I had a little time tonight and put my first layer of fiberglass, I took Santiago's advice and used fabric. It is a little more flexible than the mat. Thanks.

[Aloha818]

An easy way to find them is to shine a bright light from the back side of the panel, the voids will show up as light areas.

I started sanding down the lip on the trunk yesterday so it would sit flat and noticed quite a few areas where there was a gap between the gel coat and the resin. A few corners of some body panels had even chipped in shipping due to voids.

Yea the light trick works well!! I used a light trick in the past and on these panels is a must. I am about to de mount panels and have at it

Needs to be vacuum-bagged? I expect this from aftermarket FRP. Seems like the norm. I can't wait to start.

Since I already painted the backside of all my panels with bedliner, I can't use this advice. But will help others, thanks for commenting!

Since I have no previous experience with working with fiberglass panels I did not have any expectations. And as Mechie posted, I too have several chipped corners. I originally hoped to vinyl wrap for a quicker simpler build, but between the actual quality of the panels, color choice, and my higher expectations of the finished product, painting is a must for me.

[longislandwrx]

image.jpg

Go home hula girl, you are drunk.

[carbon fiber]

as far as the fg, 2x2 twill weave is the easiest to get to form around complex curves. for the panels, you can actually beat the panels gently with a stiff wire brush from the gelcoat side to find the voids if you can't see them because of the bedliner. it's going to be worth it, as you stated, it would be bad to find after paint. I mentioned in an older thread that if they made fg panels for the 818, there would probably be voids and they would require the same attention as the other ffr kits when it comes to prep. not really no paint. that said, I'd still rather have the fg panels because they're easy to modify or repair.

[metalmaker12]

The brush works very well thanks carbon !!

[carbon fiber]

glad to help, I hope everyone building an 818 is paying attention to this discussion about panel prep/voids. it would suck to get the car painted and then find them.

[Mechie3]

glad to help, I hope everyone building an 818 is paying attention to this discussion about panel prep/voids. it would suck to get the car painted and then find them.

I'm glad I found it. The more I fit the panels the more I realize it's not really a no paint body. Even if you don't paint it, it still requires almost as much work to get it good and fill in the gel coat so you might as well paint.

I got a sweet hookup yesterday. Work no longer had use for a three stage compressed air filter (particulate, water, oil) so before they tossed it they offered it to me. Score! That'll be useful for painting.

[Aloha818]

Go home hula girl, you are drunk.

Thanks for the reply, made me laugh!!

[Aloha818]

as far as the fg, 2x2 twill weave is the easiest to get to form around complex curves. for the panels, you can actually beat the panels gently with a stiff wire brush from the gelcoat side to find the voids if you can't see them because of the bedliner. it's going to be worth it, as you stated, it would be bad to find after paint. I mentioned in an older thread that if they made fg panels for the 818, there would probably be voids and they would require the same attention as the other ffr kits when it comes to prep. not really no paint. that said, I'd still rather have the fg panels because they're easy to modify or repair.

The brush works very well thanks carbon !!

I'm glad I found it. The more I fit the panels the more I realize it's not really a no paint body. Even if you don't paint it, it still requires almost as much work to get it good and fill in the gel coat so you might as well paint.

Thanks Carbon for posting the great advice and helping to promote great builds! And thanks Metalmaker and Mechie for acknowledging the benefit. This is so helpful to me and others sharing our tips for success!

And Mechie I agree with you 100%, the more prep I do for paint the more prep I see I need to do.

Having no previous experience with fiberglass body panels (except for my son's '77 vette) I don't know if this is normal or not. Having said that, for a $10k kit I'm only slightly disappointed.

I'm sure with some prep and some gel coat patching you could make the body acceptable for track use or a daily driver for fun only. Not going to win any awards at a car show probably though.

[Aloha818]

Yesterday I pretty much laid up the fiberglass for the rear license place pocket, I still need one more layer on the backside to finish it off better
image.jpg

Today I started with some body filler
First coat
image.jpg

Roughed in pretty good after 3 coats
image.jpg

Started block sanding the side sail/quarter.

As I have said earlier, I'm by far not an expert, and don't claim that every step I do is absolutely correct. So double check with others/supplier what would work best for your build. For reference, this is my fifth paint and body project.

My supplier, based on the primer I'm purchased, recommends sanding the gelcoat to 320 grit. I'm a big believer in using sanding blocks. I know with experience and the right equipment air tools are faster, and in the right hands, maybe better. So since I don't have the experience, or the air tools, I'm sanding by hand. I have a 6" and a 12" block and purchased rolls of 100, 180 and 320 grits.

For those that have not sanded before it seems weird to sand rounded surfaces with a flat block. But no matter how rounded you can find a way to keep part of the block flat to the body. This is what really gets rid of waves and shows low spots in the body. After primer you will go to smaller more flexible sanding pads that take the prep even closer.
image.jpg

So far the quarter panel was pretty "flat" through the most part. Was able to get "flat" with 320 without filler or going through the gelcoat. There is a good sized dip just behind the door, low on the panel. This pic shows that even after one pass with filler it still needs more
image.jpg

The joint to the bumper, the top to the trunk/engine covers and the wheel well opening, needs work. I stared adding filler to the quarter side of the bumper joint. You can see in this pic that to get "flat" takes some filler for 1/8" - 1/4" away from the joint.
image.jpg

I am doing one side of the joint at a time, protecting the other side with tape, that I carefully pull off just before the filler hardens. I need to keep the joint clear of filler to keep from cracking through later.

On a side note, I will be priming and painting with the side sails, front/rear bumpers, and front fenders on the car. Obviously the door skins, hood and trunk/engine cover off the car.

[wleehendrick]

I'm sure with some prep and some gel coat patching you could make the body acceptable for track use or a daily driver for fun only. Not going to win any awards at a car show probably though.

Agreed... a fun, reliable daily driver, capable of the occasional track day, has been my plan from the start. I have to keep reminding myself that to keep on budget. I'm not building a race car, so I have to resist most of the pricey go-fast parts I see on the forum. I'm also not building a show car, so I'm forgoing the time and expense of a nice paint job. Maybe eventually... but I'm already close to my $30k total budget, so not right away. I got the gel coat patch and will do the best I can with it. My goal is not a 100pt show car; I want it to look good from 5-10' away; I realize it won't be perfect on close inspection. I will be doing a few things to augment the white panels, so I'm hoping to pull off the 'storm trooper' look. I will look on with envy on those, like you, who have poured far more time and/or money into their 818s!

[apexanimal]

license plate area looks fantastic

[WIS89]

license plate area looks fantastic

I totally agree. This has been a great build to watch. Both the level of the build as well as the level of detail on the updates has been terrific.

I like all the custom touches being added here lately! Great stuff.

Regards,

Steve

[flynntuna]

+1 you have embraced the the hot rodding spirit and have made a lot of cool mods to make a truly unique 818. The use of fiberglass instead of thermoform panels might be a blessing, fiberglass is pretty easy to work with to modify, not sure how or if thermoformed panels can be modified.

[Aloha818]

Agreed... a fun, reliable daily driver, capable of the occasional track day, has been my plan from the start. I have to keep reminding myself that to keep on budget. I'm not building a race car, so I have to resist most of the pricey go-fast parts I see on the forum. I'm also not building a show car, so I'm forgoing the time and expense of a nice paint job. Maybe eventually... but I'm already close to my $30k total budget, so not right away. I got the gel coat patch and will do the best I can with it. My goal is not a 100pt show car; I want it to look good from 5-10' away; I realize it won't be perfect on close inspection. I will be doing a few things to augment the white panels, so I'm hoping to pull off the 'storm trooper' look. I will look on with envy on those, like you, who have poured far more time and/or money into their 818s!

Perfect! I am glad that my comments about the finish did not come across as disrespectful. The lines on the body look great and draw attention alone. In my posts I am trying to be as open and honest as possible. The kit is what the kit is and anyone ordering and buying should know what to expect. I could see with some prep, some gel coat work, and polish, the car can look amazing! But your not going to bolt it together and be 100%.

[Aloha818]

license plate area looks fantastic

I totally agree. This has been a great build to watch. Both the level of the build as well as the level of detail on the updates has been terrific.

I like all the custom touches being added here lately! Great stuff.

Regards,

Steve

+1 you have embraced the the hot rodding spirit and have made a lot of cool mods to make a truly unique 818. The use of fiberglass instead of thermoform panels might be a blessing, fiberglass is pretty easy to work with to modify, not sure how or if thermoformed panels can be modified.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the compliments and glad you are finding my mods, details and narrative beneficial.

As all of you know that are building and/or planning your build, it takes a lot of research. I try and post what I feel is missing or overlooked and what I'm doing different. Thanks for giving me feedback and let me know if you question anything.

Not much to report today, still sanding and spreading body filler. Found some low spots on the drivers door and building up the gap between the rear bumper and trunk lid. This area on my kit is very rough. And I'm not quite sure if it's how I set the body, but the engine cover/trunk lid panels combined are about 3/8" less materiel than what space there is as measured from the back side of the doors to the the top lip on the bumper. I have already added +1/8" to the front edge of the engine cover with fiberglass and today I started adding about 1/8" to the top edge of the bumper to fill and straighten. I will skim a little filler on the mating edges of the engine cover and trunk lid also to tighten up the gaps. I'm using a wooden paint stick as my gap guide.

Another FYI, every step of bodywork requires a different grit of sandpaper. Bondo likes to stick to 80-100 grit prep as it really needs a mechanical bond. The primer I'm using likes to stick to 320 grit. For my finish paint I will need to wet sand down to 600 grit. The clear coat will need 1000, then, 1500, 2000, then 3 steps of polishing pads, each with its own particular compound.

Will the sanding ever end?????

[alpine227]

yes just in time to put some more filler on...

[Erik W. Treves]

"Will the sanding ever end?????" ... nope! See ya next month...

[Wayne Presley]

Will the sanding ever end?????

You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy!

[wallace18]

You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy!

This guy too!

[wleehendrick]

Perfect! I am glad that my comments about the finish did not come across as disrespectful.

No, not at all. As you say, the panels are what they are. Not as pristine as I was hoping for, but with a little work, they'll be more than presentable. I've wet-sanded and compounded a few scratches out and polished/waxed about half of them, and they look pretty good. The surface finish over the large sections is actually smoother (less orange peel, etc...) than our new BMW! Once I have them mounted, I'll do the the gel-coat touch-up. I can see why FFR went for white, though... it does hide defects; this level of surface quality on a dark color would require much more work to look good.