Toms 33

[1932]

The running board was to soft for my liking so i putIMG_7365.JPGIMG_7366.JPG a frame under it, now i can jump on it!

[erlihemi]

Nice! Looks ready for dirt track now. I'm pondering similar approach. Do the tubes slide out so you can pull the fenders off if desired? I'm thinking about extending it forward to catch the rear of the front fender also.

[1932]

I am full fender all the time so they are welded on, the front and back go in to the cross bar. I am going to make a fender brace that will be in front of engine, but have to put engine back in and find room.

[DaveS53]

Im losing sleep because I think the FF33 is best looking car but non permanent roof worries me.
Do i buy a FF33 or a traditional 33/34 roller.
I want it to look right. I know I can build car, my body guy says permanent roof mounting is no trouble..Please keep pics and info
coming.
What are you gonna do about waterfall.and upholstery. Im thinking maybe modifying waterfall to match inside door look and having upholstery shop do iy up and also upholster a headliner too..Are you gonna run wipers.
I think I could use late jeep wiper set up..Lol wipers can b done even with ac and heat.. its top that worries me.
So keep info coming ,,thanks .

Engine compartment height is a problem if a modern EFI engine is used in the FFR '33 - there's no room for a proper intake air snorkel. I also see major headaches with maintenance, without a removable dash. A conventional car will have more interior room and more height in the engine compartment. On the down side, it's hard to know if any of the current body builders are competent. Most fiberglass body companies have been sold to new owners and you've got no idea if the product is good. Good rolling chassis is not a problem since Heidts, TCI and Kugel are still in business. The roller will cost a lot more, but you get what you pay for. I finished a 3-year, 3000 hour build last year. Had many problems due to poorly built body, no decent grille and poor suspension from Oze Rod Shop.

[Mick Scarborough]

Im losing sleep because I think the FF33 is best looking car but non permanent roof worries me.
Do i buy a FF33 or a traditional 33/34 roller.
I want it to look right. I know I can build car, my body guy says permanent roof mounting is no trouble..Please keep pics and info
coming.
What are you gonna do about waterfall.and upholstery. Im thinking maybe modifying waterfall to match inside door look and having upholstery shop do iy up and also upholster a headliner too..Are you gonna run wipers.
I think I could use late jeep wiper set up..Lol wipers can b done even with ac and heat.. its top that worries me.
So keep info coming ,,thanks .

What about a non-permanent roof worries you? Its been done for many years with excellent results. The FFR removable hard top is no different than a targa top, t-tops, a bronco or a Toyota Landcruiser. Frankly the FFR hot rod is 2 cars in one. For us Floridians I can cruise the beach in a breezer and later protect myself from the damp night air with a sweet hard top.

[1932]

HadIMG_7387.JPGIMG_7389.JPGIMG_7391.JPG a problem with hood changing on right side, found that i had a air pocket!
And been working a roll cage for my personal safetyIMG_7392.JPGIMG_7393.JPGIMG_7394.JPG!

[myjones]

I see you spread the base out like I did,
starting further apart like that does help the headroom and lands on a stronger spot on the frame than the FF socket did.

I should have cut out the inner layer of the hardtop like one of the other FF builds have to get that extra bit of headroom
for my tall wife. Keep posting the cage pics I love to see how people deal with the tight quarters. On the front down legs
cutting the front off the dash as a section is the best I've seen for that challenge.
DB

[erlihemi]

Looking great '32!! I like the cage ideas that are hitting the forum occasionally. If I get to the MKV mod III stage I may redo that entire people cabin. It occurred to me the other day at about 3rd gear I wasn't happy with no forward hoop or door bars. While the car is stable it doesn't mean the other drivers are. It also became obvious that I don't need to bother with a 5 window when running with Kirkey high backs or a large headed passenger! I did get my seat position correct to glance out the Mail slot for blind spot checking though. The other thing I accidentally did was stagger my seat height so the shoulders don't hit when I move mine back and forth. I don't know how 17" wide Kirkeys could go in this cabin?
Still thinking a 37 ford nose with a fast back for better cage design...

Here's one you guys might enjoy: My wife asked me if the rollbar gets hot?? Ummm no?? " Why else would you insulate it like that??"

[RoadRacer]

Here's one you guys might enjoy: My wife asked me if the rollbar gets hot?? Ummm no?? " Why else would you insulate it like that??"

Haha, classic!

[myjones]

Looking great '32!! I like the cage ideas that are hitting the forum occasionally. Still thinking a 37 ford nose with a fast back for better cage design...
Here's one you guys might enjoy: My wife asked me if the rollbar gets hot?? Ummm no?? " Why else would you insulate it like that??"

The fastback design would help make room for proper downbars as well as looking sweet.
Using Mazda trunk hinges like mine keeps the trunk lid from moving forward when it's opened and wouldn't run into a fastback top design.

My wife had a classic reply as well when she climbed in and found her head too close to the beta roll bar I made. I said well I guess I either
need to find a shorter girlfriend or raise the rear hoop. She said " It would be a LOT cheaper to raise the roll bar"
DB

[1932]

Been working on roll cage---it has turned into art!IMG_7395.JPGIMG_7397.JPGIMG_7400.JPG

[myjones]

Couple of taco gussets under that horiz bar would help a bit too.
Love the pictures, keep em coming.

The front hoop is a great place for a segmented racing mirror or a long convex one.
Dale

[NAZ]

image003.jpg For folks contemplating a full cage in one of these little cars, here's a photo of one design. This was my first iteration of a full cage in a 33 HR. It fit under the roof, the rear braces were greater than 30-degrees, and it did not trap the body. Made from 1.625 x .090 4130 it was strong and light. The original trunk hinges worked with the 18-gallon fuel cell but the body was positioned 1" higher at the rear to get additional head room under the main hoop. However, that design was replaced when NHRA would not certify it because they won't accept the 1.5" FFR chassis tubing as a suitable place to weld a roll cage to. I deemed it too difficult to continue modifying the FFR chassis and elected to design my own. The design pictured would have been a very sturdy cage for a street rod.

[erlihemi]

Awesome examples! I had some spastic thoughts of creating a slightly wider chassis for the Hot Rod aka gen III so we could do more with seats, cages, and tranny tunnels. This forces the running boards (if used) to be narrower and you can crawl out easier. Obviously this forces a new body, but what the heck, time for a later 30's rod anyway. Keep the pictures and ideas flowing. Maybe we should do a cage thread??

[myjones]

Awesome examples! I had some spastic thoughts of creating a slightly wider chassis for the Hot Rod aka gen III so we could do more with seats, cages, and tranny tunnels. This forces the running boards (if used) to be narrower and you can crawl out easier. Obviously this forces a new body, but what the heck, time for a later 30's rod anyway. Keep the pictures and ideas flowing. Maybe we should do a cage thread??

Mark
I had the same thought about a wide body 33 with a fastback top and taller rear fenders. More room for the cage, driveline, passengers, taller tires, trunk etc.
The new Daytona chassis would be a good example of some of the frame changes needed to make a wide 33 stiff and safe. FF won't do a full hardtop 33 because
of market share for the roadster so they won't do a full cage because of that issue.
Dale

[RoadRacer]

image003.jpg For folks contemplating a full cage in one of these little cars, here's a photo of one design. This was my first iteration of a full cage in a 33 HR. It fit under the roof, the rear braces were greater than 30-degrees, and it did not trap the body. Made from 1.625 x .090 4130 it was strong and light.

Did you sell that version NAZ? I'm guessing you'd have us all fighting over a ready made cage like that..

[NAZ]

Sorry RoadRacer, I salvaged as much of the chrome moly tubing as I could. And what's left of the FFR original chassis is sitting in my metal scrap pile waiting to be hauled off to the scrap metal yard.

[1932]

Good luck to anyone that goes down this path. I wanted my heater and ac, to be able to get body of and on, and not be hitting head on on tubing. Went with 1&5/8 120 dom smallest legal ( i think ) and have bender for it. Not much room in cab to put tubing. I don't tig weld so the light tube was not used.

[NAZ]

1932, you're on the money about the limited room inside these little cars for a roll cage. Before you get too far down that path here's a tip on how to solve the body entrapment issue and still have as wide of a door opening as possible. Run the front hoop through the dash and down to the chassis. Now at first that may seem like it will trap the body but after you cut the holes in the dash for the down tubes; carefully cut out the dash through the center of these holes and make a nice clean parting line. I used a pneumatic body saw and it came out perfect. Now use ¼-turn fasteners to reattach the cut-out portion of the dash and you will do two things. First, the dash will not trap the roll cage as the body will easily slide off the chassis and away from the roll cage. Second, when you remove the face of the dash you'll have lots of room to work under there and can even easily install the A/C after the body is on. You can search the album galley for pictures of how I did this. I haven't posted any for awhile so it's probably on the second or third page by now and the title is 33 Hot Rod Roll Cage. Here's a couple views of the roll cage with the body on and the dash assembled. IMG_0554.JPGIMG_0555.JPG

[1932]

Two more in frontIMG_7401.JPGIMG_7403.JPGIMG_7404.JPG
Trying to use all of FFR and have open doors to get in and out. This is a driver, i plan to put a lot of miles on the road!

[1932]

Time to Weld this up and get to putting together.IMG_7415.JPGIMG_7419.JPGIMG_7420.JPGIMG_7422.JPGIMG_7423.JPG

[myjones]

I don't recall which AC unit you ended up with but either way the AC and heater lines get pretty crowded coming through the firewall and turning
to connect to the AC unit. My rollcage lands on the same place as yours on the firewall so I ran my lines different than the FF manual says to.

I split them up and brought the heater hoses in high and right behind the intake manifold. I brought the AC hoses in on the lower firewall where
it kicks back to hit the floorpan. I used a double bulkhead fitting there and brought them up with a pair of 90* fittings to the AC unit. I made an
inner firewall panel for the PS footbox to protect the hoses and allow more insulation on the back of the firewall for heat control. Much easier that way.
Dale

[erlihemi]

I like it!! I'm pondering whether I would dare do this with a steel body though.

[1932]

Why not? The only body mod is the holes in dash. Or as naz did removable dash corners, the rest is bend and fit ends.

[1932]

All welded up and primed, paint friday. IMG_7428.JPGIMG_7430.JPGIMG_7433.JPG

[1932]

OK it is blackIMG_7434.JPG

[NAZ]

It's a lot of work but you now have a much safer car for the effort. That faux roll bar that came with the car is false security but your design should offer significant protection in a rollover. Good job.

[1932]

Thanks NAZ. I and the person with me need to walk away from any problems!

[myjones]

OK it is blackIMG_7434.JPG

Looking good.
Are those SQ tubes in back being used for better trunk hinges ?
Dale

[erlihemi]

Looks robust! Nice job Tom.

[1932]

Thanks all !!!
Now back to building, until i have the next idea!! Front fender bracing.

[Railroad]

I just stumbled up on your thread. I bought the same engine for my roadster. ,,, not nearly as far along on the build as you, but was excited to see the engine. I might have to monitor to catch any tips on the engine. I used the shallow Moroso pan and pickup for my build. The pan on the engine sure is a nice piece of work. I too used a different flywheel. I did not know one came with the engine, nod iron. It is a nine bolt or some configuration other than the billet steel I bought. I did run into something a little scary. The flywheel bolts sent with the new flywheel, M-6379-B are not long enough. The bolts that came on the engine are TTY and not recommended for re use. The shipped bolts only engage .2 inch of threads. I bought another set, like those that came on the engine, .40 inch engagement. The engine also came with a short nipple to use when the oil cooler is removed, which is necessary with the roadster. Nice build!

[progmgr1]

Thanks all !!!
Now back to building, until i have the next idea!! Front fender bracing.

Cardifkid made some really stout but simple front fender braces for his '33. There are pictures in his build thread on the other forum: "cardifkids-33-build-706-hot-rod" (not sure if it's ok to actually post a thread address on this forum). HTH Keith

[1932]

Thanks
Yes he has a very nice car, and braces. I will have fenders on all the time so i may weld braces in at a different way!

[erlihemi]

Tom,

Did you fab a bar across in front of the tank for connecting the back of the seat like most sanctioning bodies require?? I thought about modifying the Belt anchors but its too busy and the most logical place seems to be across the original vertical tubes for your build. Feels like the body should have had a brace where the waterfall meets it to anchor a race seat in the back.

It could even stabilize that wobbly roof a little. For guys with the roadster those doors must not stay aligned. The roof is actually stabilizing the body sides.

[1932]

I need to look at the seat back bolting, I have never raced but would like to run on road course, be better to put in now. Am fabing a driveline safety part now.
Some times my farm background does not line up with race world. As we say in shop framerize it, and what part of custom did you not understand!
With top on permanent it makes body more stable, and with the roll cage the frame should not flex much.
Small family farm- with old and made equipment.

Looks that there are to many things to change , or build to be race ok. Going for personal safety and hope to be good to run track days.

[1932]

I am open to all ideas and info. Thanks

[erlihemi]

As we say in shop framerize it, and what part of custom did you not understand!

Looks that there are to many things to change , or build to be race ok. Going for personal safety and hope to be good to run track days.

Yep, got it on the opposite coast!! Not sure the 33 is really aligned for any serious racing, but, if the welds are still warm and there is some rod left you have the skills to fab it up.
At one point I considered boxing the tank area from the people cabin also. That whole area around the waterfall just seems like it needs a different approach from FFR.

[NAZ]

Since the discussion has touched on racing I'll add what I found dealing with SCCA Solo and NHRA regulations. Before I started designing my roll cage I contacted the SCCA Rally / Solo manager as I had questions after reading their rule book. He handed me off to the National Solo Competition Manager who stated that convertibles need a SCCA compliant roll bar but normally hardtop cars aren't required to have a roll bar as the Feds require crash testing and SCCA assumes that's good enough for Solo events that never really exceed the speeds normally encountered on the highway. However, he also said that there is no specific mention of that exclusion for kit cars so he "recommends" a roll bar but cautioned that the FFR standard roll bar doesn't have any bracing so it would not comply with the SCCA regs regarding roll bars. So you may get away without any roll bar or cage for SCCA Solo events unless you get a local club that has a tech inspector that want's to push back on kit cars. Now for NHRA, roll bar and roll cage requirements take a much different tack and depend on body style and ET / speed. Let's look at how these rules apply to the 33 Hot Rod coupe (the roadster will be different). A roll bar meeting the requirements in Section 20 4:10 & 10:6 is required for cars running 11.49 to 11.00 seconds (¼-mile). A roll cage compliant with Section 20 4:4, 4:11, & 10:6 is required in cars running 10.99 or quicker or 135 MPH or faster. Roll bars are not certify but a roll cage is required to be certified by a NHRA chassis inspector every three-years. Now the part you won't like -- there is no way that you will meet the NHRA requirements for a roll bar or roll cage if it's welded to the FFR chassis as the tubing used in your chassis does not comply with NHRA requirements. You might get away with it on a roll bar if the local track tech inspector is not real picky but there is no way that a chassis inspector will affix a certification sticker on your roll cage if it's welded to the 1.5" square tubing used on your FFR chassis. Of course there are other safety compliance items to deal with beside roll bars and roll cages. The takeaway here is that if you plan to drag race your hot rod at a NHRA track it will require a great deal of modification to the basic FFR hot rod chassis.

[1932]

I have the new exhaust and cannot get the over axle part to fit, and DS o2 sensor het steering.The good news is no fiberglass in mufflerIMG_7440.JPGIMG_7441.JPGIMG_7442.JPGIMG_7445.JPGIMG_7449.JPG.