#9196 475hp 347 MK4 Roadster Build (Insurance and Plates)

[Yama-Bro]

The way we do it on the SBC in the dirt car is to grab a handful of different size hex nuts. Start with a 1/2" hex nut laying flat on the pickup and
place the pan and gasket on and it should fail to seat against the pan rail. It should wobble a bit because it's resting on the nut. Drop down one
size at a time on the hex nuts until the pan just starts to lay tight against the gasket and pan rail. Take that nut out and measure for thickness,
subtract a 1/16" for gasket crush and you know the final clearance from the pan. Everyone has a few spare nuts laying around and you don't
have to worry about keeping a batch of clay from drying out before the next use. KISS principal at it's best.
Dale Berry

That's another good technique, Dale. I do have to admit though...I was sharing my simple method. I withheld the technical method that I've used every time I've designed a pickup tube to be used with a specific pan...I figured not everyone has one of these sitting around in their garage. LOL.
This is our Faro Edge measuring probe that is accurate to .0015".

[TexasAviator]

Not the prettiest of pictures but I bought some more nickle and dime parts. Added up to another few hundred bucks with the sparkplugs, ford racing wires, ford wire holders, -6 an fittings for the fitech, chrome coolant fitting for on top of the manifold, fitech coolant temp sensor, oil pressure sender sensor, simple grommets for the valve covers, trick flow oil fill tube, and other misc parts.

[TexasAviator]

Ready to go to the dyno. When I get it back I will take off the ugly coolant tubes, ugly hose clamps and clean up the details on her after break in.

24553626468_ae394c5bed_h.jpg

[Big Blocker]

In response to your post #122 . . . My wife once said to me, "I sure hope this car isn't going to nickle and dime us to death". My response to her was, "Honey, there isn't anything on this car that costs a nickle or a dime . . . everything starts at $100 and goes up from there."

She still let me build the car and I've kept it now for 15 years . . . I no longer keep a running total of money spent for 5¢ and 10¢ stuff.

Just thought you should know that little tid-bit. LOL !

Doc

[TexasAviator]

Ran Fuel lines, made tight turns, and did it using the stock ffr tubing. Its good tubing and with a little technique and using the recommendations in the build manual, I was able to bed it without kinking with a socket and my hands. I also started to setup the brake booster but found I dont have the right line from the booster to the distributor. It appears to be a larger IF style flare fitting but FFR did not include the line for that. What did you all do to make this work? I know I am oviously going to have to buy a short line for that. I also ran the fuel lines up and cut them with a pipe cutter so I will need to flare those but thats easy. Tell me what you all think. The lines routed pretty nicely along the frame and the bends tucked up under the rear deck nicely. I also got some more riveting done. I have broken 6 drill bits now and I have to keep running out to get more. The weird angles and pressure keeps snapping them like a candy cane.

[TexasAviator]

[TexasAviator]

In response to your post #122 . . . My wife once said to me, "I sure hope this car isn't going to nickle and dime us to death". My response to her was, "Honey, there isn't anything on this car that costs a nickle or a dime . . . everything starts at $100 and goes up from there."

She still let me build the car and I've kept it now for 15 years . . . I no longer keep a running total of money spent for 5¢ and 10¢ stuff.

Just thought you should know that little tid-bit. LOL !

Doc

That is a good point. I have kept every reciept I have spent on the car and will until its on the road. I want to know what I spent in case anyone ever offers me a fair price for it. I dont want to ever sell it but I never know what the future holds so if its a great offer I might part with it. Otherwise I am doing it to have a solid history of the car and I am OCD.

You are right though, even a small fitting I bought for the fuel was 7 bucks. Everytime I spend money I end up going into the hundreds on parts orders.

[TexasAviator]

Ok, I trashed the distributor and installed a block in the front and in the rear just after the bias adjustment knob. This way I can adjust the rear if need be and its out of the way. Hand bent all my brake lines. These rhinohide brake lines from edelmanns are really well made and bend easily. I would really have to work hard to make these things kink. Anyway here are all my lines. I feel they came out pretty neat and well placed. This was acutally a lot of fun.

[cgundermann]

Looks very good; nicely done! I'm with you, I enjoyed doing mine as well...

[TexasAviator]

I am especially proud of this one. My father in law came by for thanksgiving and he could not believe I was building a car. He showed up just as I laid these lines. He was blown away at how parallel and even the curves were. Very good feeling. Bending brake line is so much fun.

[TexasAviator]

Installed the FFR Heater core. It features a 3 stage fan, and the knob is pulled for flow control of the heater bypass valve. Its quite an easy and ingenious way to bring defogging in the car for cool fall and spring mornings as well as heat for a cold day but may warm later while at work. Here is some of the run down on the system.


I used seam seal, since it dries clear, looks great, hides bad seam lines, stays a pliable. Its paintable and its NOT silicon so it wont eat metal. I sealed the outside with seam seal. The inside I used foam quarter inch seals so that it can be removed if need be.



I used a hole saw with a pretty large bit to allow for movement of the box and to allow use of the seals the FFR heater and blower come with.



Used split loom and routed the wires as well as the switch actuator for controlling the temperature.

[TexasAviator]

I cut the holes using a 1.5 inch hole saw bit but if I could do it over I would have used a 1.25 bit. They came out just a bit big but the grommets closed them up well enough that I wasnt all that concerned. Furthermore I made a paper template with an exacto knife, a piece of paper from the kit, and traced the holes from the unit itself, making sure all the holes line up perfectly. I mocked it up each stage of the way and cut the final large hole with the hole saw in 6 locations. I punched out the rest with pliers and snapping off small pieces, then finished it up with a flap wheel on my angle grinder.








The last two things I provided that were not in the kit was some seals that you can find a roll of at any hardware store, and I had a handful of perfect sized grommets to give the firewall a finished look after the install was completed. Its easier to install the grommets at the smallest part of the cable rather than trying to do it on the cable itself. Its almost impossible unless you slide it into the firewall while only part of the wire is run through towards the coil end that connects to the valve.







Here is where I stopped with all hoses ran and the placement of the defoggers mocked up.

[Ducky2009]

I am especially proud of this one. My father in law came by for thanksgiving and he could not believe I was building a car. He showed up just as I laid these lines. He was blown away at how parallel and even the curves were. Very good feeling. Bending brake line is so much fun.

Good looking brake lines. The master cylinder cap looks pretty high. Are you going to be able to add fluid with the body on?

[TexasAviator]

I am going to have to address that with a remote reservoir. The thing is I cant seem to separate the plastic housing from the MC. Its on there really well. I also dont know how I am going to find fittings for it to run to a remote location high on the firewall.

[TexasAviator]

I started the day off on Friday by packing up the engine and putting it in the truck. It was a 3 hour trip down to Spicewood near Austin and the day was beautiful and perfect for a drive. I stopped for gas but that was it since I really wanted to get this motor to the one of the greatest people I have ever met. Bob Lloyd or bobl on the forums.

20171203_003832 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

When I arrived he had his cobra sitting there looking all shined up. Bob is a very humble man and doest even have a build thread. Yet he has been building engines for years. He has a very extensive knowledge of all things mechanical and was a real gentleman. His wife was also just like him. Real salt of the earth people. Also did I mention they live in the most beautiful part of Texas. WOW

20171203_003924 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

After some lunch and a swig of water we started cracking on my humble 302. Its punched out to 347 and has some nice parts but they are nothing if I cant get them in tune with the rest of the engine and efi.

20171202_193600 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

When I arrived Bob had already started looking at my distributor and found out that it had to be adjusted and made to work with the Fitech EFI. The issue was that its not adjustable in the sense that it has to move the magnetic pickup. We decided we might drill and tap new holes for the magnet, hard mount a screw where the plastic was, or weld and drill a hole to retard the unit 10 degrees. Bob got out his calculator and knew that since we were moving the magnet and pickup and not the cap and rotor, we would have to advance the assembly so that the rotor sees a retard in timing. Its effectively backwards since we are moving a different part than Fitech recommended. In the directions they state that the timing is to be moved counter clockwise with an adjustable phase rotor. We didnt have one so we came up with this to solve the problem and make it more permanent for our application.

20171201_204959 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171203_004202 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

[TexasAviator]

As we stabbed the distributor, we marked cylinder 1, put the engine at TDC as best we could and looked at how we modified the distributor to allow us to make it work for the fitech unit.

20171201_221321 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

Once the ignition problem was solved, Bob had me look twice at my rockers. I had tightened them way too tight. He had me set them once again to zero lash and a half turn. Its a whole different world when you do the work with someone teaching you. I had done it using youtube videos but I was still wrong. I had to learn from the best.

20171201_204830 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

One we had the ignition fixed, the rockers set, it was time to set it up for the dyno.

[TexasAviator]

The engine was put on a dynomite sea and land unit that was built for boats and car engines. Bob has adapted the dyno to allow him to work on Cobra cars as well as his boat business. This is my engine sitting next to the supercharged big blocks he builds. Can you say 1000 horsepower!

20171202_000642 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

Once on the dyno we pulled several runs to get the engine broke in and warmed up. We got it over 3000 rpm and heard a rocker arm. I had to go in and tighten one more rocker arm because it was overlooked on the attempt to correct earlier problems with my setup. We did a few more pulls but found one more hiccup. We had to fix another mistake of mine with the harmonic balancer vs the timing light. They were not in sync and we had to make new timing marks to find TDC and 0 degrees. Once bob corrected it he made pulls at 28, 30, and 32 degrees of timing at WOT. This is with his exhaust system which is essentially no mufflers. The car made the following power outputs.

Peak
hp/tq
450/460 @ 32 deg
470/440 @ 30 deg
474/439 @ 28 deg

We data logged and saved it at 28 degrees with an afr of 12 at wot. We could not believe it. High fives and laughter all around. We made over the 450 hp mark. I thought at one point it would only be 430 hp based on my fox body experience. I knew the crappy 5.0HO manifolds held people back but WOW.

Next we wanted to run my setup with stock ffr sidepipes. Bob welded in the bung and I got all the exhaust apart off the dyno runs we just made. I couldnt stop smiling. I mean this engine is making 475 hp! I would have never imagined it was possible with just 5900 rpm.

20171202_172531 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

[TexasAviator]

Once we got the side pipes were installed it was time to see what it would do with how the car would be on the street.

The side pipes went in and we fired the dyno up. Here is a video of that. SELECT HD AND MAXIMIZE YOUR SCREEN TO WATCH THE HP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymG-6RGR83Y

WATCH THE VIDEO OF THE BEST DYNO RUN OF THE NIGHT!

[TexasAviator]

So here it is folks. Bob Lloyd, with his Texas hospitality and charm helped me see my way to success.

The dyno sheets with the corrections using his Dynomite dyno weather station, correction software, and extremely expensive setup yielded these results.

474.8 horsepower (452 SAE)
438.9 torque (419 SAE)


20171203_005533 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171203_005845 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171203_005916 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

[TexasAviator]

So not to be over done but I think myself and Bob both like to be cautious. We cut open the filter, dumped the brand new Amsoil break in oil and checked everything for metal. There was some but its about what I have seen in the past and that Bob has seen in his vast experience. We felt that it was a success and that we had a great motor on our hands. What a great feeling. We were sititng there going over everything we had just done in the past tow days absolutely astounded.

20171202_183737 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

We once again stripped the engine of its parts. Packed everything back up and moved the engine back into my pickup for the 3 hour ride home.

20171202_193657 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

It has been a long two days and I spent a lot of time mulling over details and I still had many mistakes over the past year. To recap what Bob had me do and the lessons learned, they are as follows:
Fix timing and distributor phasing using a custom welded mount
Relubricate valve train, cylinder walls, all bearing surfaces with an oil pump primer
Readjust all rockers to lash plus half turn
Readjust 1 rocker while on the dyno
Fix timing marks in relation to TDC and 0 degrees
Bob tuned the EFI FItech unit and had general knowledge to get the engine tuned
Bob taught me how to use the fitech
Bob put me up at his house, fed me, and his wonderful wife cooked for me!!!!!
Pinch me is this cobra community for real?

Thank you Bob and his wonderful wife for their hospitality. My faith is completely restored in humanity.

[RickP]

So here it is folks. Bob Lloyd, with his Texas hospitality and charm helped me see my way to success.

The dyno sheets with the corrections using his Dynomite dyno weather station, correction software, and extremely expensive setup yielded these results.

474.8 horsepower (452 SAE)
438.9 torque (419 SAE)


20171203_005533 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171203_005845 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171203_005916 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

That SB is really producing some great numbers. Nice work on the engine build.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nice numbers Brandon---congrats!

Haven't kept up with you for a few days and just looked at some of your latest. Coming along well but as an FYI you need to be aware that the passenger side defrost hose you have shown here will not fit between the heater box and body.



Two options of which I have done both on customer roadsters; (#1) a shallow fiberglass plenum about 3" wide and 1" deep molded to the underside of the cowl and fed in the center by the LH hose (RH outlet of the heater box gets plugged) or (#2) plug the heater box upper RH port, install a dummy grille on that side of the body and only have an active defroster on the driver's side.

Cheers,
Jeff

[cgundermann]

Congratulations - impressive numbers!

Chris

[TexasAviator]

That SB is really producing some great numbers. Nice work on the engine build.

Thanks, I might add that it was with the accessories on there as well as the ffr mufflers. I feel that after the car seats the rings, runs on synthetic, and a bit better gas the engine could be closer to 500hp. Of course its all just numbers and they are meaningless but its fun to gather the data and crunch the numbers.

[Jacob McCrea]

Well done, and thanks for taking the time to post it all here.

[TexasAviator]

Nice numbers Brandon---congrats!

Haven't kept up with you for a few days and just looked at some of your latest. Coming along well but as an FYI you need to be aware that the passenger side defrost hose you have shown here will not fit between the heater box and body.



Two options of which I have done both on customer roadsters; (#1) a shallow fiberglass plenum about 3" wide and 1" deep molded to the underside of the cowl and fed in the center by the LH hose (RH outlet of the heater box gets plugged) or (#2) plug the heater box upper RH port, install a dummy grille on that side of the body and only have an active defroster on the driver's side.

Cheers,
Jeff

I had a couple thoughts of my own I wanted to bounce off someone when I did this a little while back. Wont the tube just crush under the cowl/body. Sure it will squish it against the box but its no different in size since as its squished the dimensions just change to its shape. Also I thought the same about not running it at all to the widow and sending it all to the foot boxes. So many options. I am hit with a delta and a tangent every time I try and install something. LOL

[TexasAviator]

Congratulations - impressive numbers!

Chris

Chris,

You have been one of my faithful followers. I really appreciate your foxbody experience and your build. Its refreshing to have a fellow windsor junkie on here. I love the coyote and if I had the cash... But there is just something so rewarding about the simplicity of the Windsor, the reliability, and the fact it assembles like legos. Even my kids could build this motor. I still cant believe we squeezed 475 out of it. I know its just a number and SAE was what I was really wanting anyway. We even managed to smash my SAE estimate at 452 horsepower. Cant wait to feel it in front of the T5Z+

Brandon

[TexasAviator]

Well done, and thanks for taking the time to post it all here.

Anytime Jacob,

The people really are the best, in this genre of auto enthusiasts.

Brandon

[cgundermann]

Chris,

You have been one of my faithful followers. I really appreciate your foxbody experience and your build. Its refreshing to have a fellow windsor junkie on here. I love the coyote and if I had the cash... But there is just something so rewarding about the simplicity of the Windsor, the reliability, and the fact it assembles like legos. Even my kids could build this motor. I still cant believe we squeezed 475 out of it. I know its just a number and SAE was what I was really wanting anyway. We even managed to smash my SAE estimate at 452 horsepower. Cant wait to feel it in front of the T5Z+

Brandon

Amen brother! I haven't dyno-ed mine, and the loose estimate is north of 450...I'm really curious now what mine will do. To be honest, I was a bit surprised yours was so high...I almost bit and was going to guess when you asked, but, now I'm glad I didn't...I would have offended...lol. Pretty damn good run!

Hot motors are like pretty women, we can all find the beauty in all them - but, we all have our own kryptonite...mine are old school EFI 5.0s (and my lovely bride is a blonde)..

Chris

[Jeff Kleiner]

... Wont the tube just crush under the cowl/body....

It will squiah a bit but the bigger problem is that it will push the cowl upward making the doors fit even worse than usual...kind of the same as what happens when the passenger side end of the dash isn't trimmed. Speaking of the passenger side of the dash ---I'm afraid your placement of the hose and heat vent are going to interfere when you go to tuck the end in behind the hinge.

Jeff

[TexasAviator]

Chris I was guessing 430 and was hoping 450, can't believe it was 475 standard. The correction method is so you can compare to others but even with SAE standards it was over 450hp. All the while having accessories and stock exhaust. I port matched the intake and the 190cc heads sure do wake up the sbf. I can't wait to see how it feels on the street.
I also hadnt mentioned it but a spacer below the fitech creates volume and tunes the intake from the research I have done. I think it picks up 10-15 hp compared to other volumes. Its about matching the tune and pulses of the valve train. Its all in the combo and I did my homework.


20171201_224520 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

[TexasAviator]

Jeff,

I appreciate the insight. I would have figured that one out the hard way. I will be careful to not have anything in the way up there and modify accordingly. I like your idea of using the driver side and ghosting the passenger side.

[cgundermann]

Chris I was guessing 430 and was hoping 450, can't believe it was 475 standard. The correction method is so you can compare to others but even with SAE standards it was over 450hp. All the while having accessories and stock exhaust. I port matched the intake and the 190cc heads sure do wake up the sbf. I can't wait to see how it feels on the street.

Honestly, I was going to swag it at 430 also. You did well! It's nothing like a 450+ Stang, as you've heard so many times - that much poop in a 2300 pound car deserves as much respect as flirting with a UFC fighter's girlfriend; you better have some skills or you going to get hurt bad...

Chris

[TexasAviator]

Honestly, I was going to swag it at 430 also. You did well! It's nothing like a 450+ Stang, as you've heard so many times - that much poop in a 2300 pound car deserves as much respect as flirting with a UFC fighter's girlfriend; you better have some skills or you going to get hurt bad...

Chris

Bobl let me drive his 500hp cobra 347 yesterday. We stopped for gas and at the pump he let me get in the driver seat. He asked me about the clutch, and if I felt comfortable. I pulled out of the gas station, punched it, fish tailed the car, centered it in the lane and by the time i looked down we were doing 70. He looked at me and I smiled. Yeah I know how handle the car.

[cgundermann]

Bobl let me drive his 500hp cobra 347 yesterday. We stopped for gas and at the pump he let me get in the driver seat. He asked me about the clutch, and if I felt comfortable. I pulled out of the gas station, punched it, fish tailed the car, centered it in the lane and by the time i looked down we were doing 70. He looked at me and I smiled. Yeah I know how handle the car.

Too much fun; very very nice of him to let you drive or dare I say - flog it...

Chris

[TexasAviator]

Too much fun; very very nice of him to let you drive or dare I say - flog it...

Chris

yes, when the situation is good you can have some fun. I think we all fear the less than average mustang driver who hits other cars as they come fling out of parking lots. You just never know who you can trust. I was really surprised he let me drive his car. He must either really trust me or really like me. Either way bobl had taught me more in a few days than i have learned on my own in year or so time with the cobra forums and the car itself.

[bobl]

yes, when the situation is good you can have some fun. I think we all fear the less than average mustang driver who hits other cars as they come fling out of parking lots. You just never know who you can trust. I was really surprised he let me drive his car. He must either really trust me or really like me. Either way bobl had taught me more in a few days than i have learned on my own in year or so time with the cobra forums and the car itself.

I didn't think you were ready to die after what you've been through and have to live for. I was also pretty confident you wouldn't do anything stupid after the small amount of time I've known you. Just wish I had a video of your reaction when I first ran it through the gears! I forgot the Gopro.

Bob

[bobl]

Amen brother! I haven't dyno-ed mine, and the loose estimate is north of 450...I'm really curious now what mine will do. To be honest, I was a bit surprised yours was so high...I almost bit and was going to guess when you asked, but, now I'm glad I didn't...I would have offended...lol. Pretty damn good run!

Hot motors are like pretty women, we can all find the beauty in all them - but, we all have our own kryptonite...mine are old school EFI 5.0s (and my lovely bride is a blonde)..

Chris

Chris, If you'll post all of your engine specs I'd be glad to model your build in my software. I was within 10 HP of Brandon's engine before we dyno'd it.

Bob

[TexasAviator]

I didn't think you were ready to die after what you've been through and have to live for. I was also pretty confident you wouldn't do anything stupid after the small amount of time I've known you. Just wish I had a video of your reaction when I first ran it through the gears! I forgot the Gopro.

Bob

Bob

I dont know about you Bob, but I am exhausted today. After the chase for more horsepower and the time frame we did it in... I am so tired. Needed today to chill. I hope Kathy and you had a relaxing day after our crazy weekend.

Also, the violence that your car throws down is pure adrenaline. At the end of the experience, the blood is pumping and your brain is trying to process what just happened.

[Big Blocker]

Congrats on those dyno numbers . . . well done my friend, well done. And the best part is, you did it yourself, without any help from a "Pro builder". Also, I applaud your tube bending skills, you are a master at detail from what I can see in your pictures - great work.

Keep it going and you'll soon be on the road, doin' those [we were at] 70 mph "blasts" (before you know it). That is where the "learning curve" come into play. Your car, like bobl's, will be a monster and will deserve ALL your respect at all times. Close to 500 HP in a 2100# car is pure adrenaline in it's strongest form . . .

Again, congratulations!!

Doc