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richtersand's build #9909 - Engine In!!
Hi all, I got the car this weekend so it's time to start the build thread! I'm excited to kick off the project... it's the perfect stay-at-home project during COVID.
Here's my build plan:
FFR Complete Kit, black powder coat
Coyote 5.0 Gen 3
Tremec TKX with 0.68 5th
IRS, 3.73 gear ratio
Power steering
Vintage gauges
Front mount battery
Front sway bar
Halibrand wheels, 18"
Wilwood brakes
Driver side roll-bar, chrome
Gas-N pipes + header
LED headlights, halo
Overriders (without bumpers)
Powder coat panels black
Likely color: Viking blue
I am very curious how much time it will take to build this, so I created a time tracker and will keep this updated throughout the build. Link to Time Tracker
Last edited by richtersand; 12-08-2020 at 11:09 PM.
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I'm glad the dolly went to a good home. Looks like you are well on your way.
Welcome to
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Welcome aboard. Sounds like a solid build plan. I'll be following along curious to see what the time tracker says. I worked on mine pretty steadily for a couple years but have no idea how many hours I put in. Thanks for sharing your build.
-Steve
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Welcome to the madness! Looks like you are well on your way. I'm 7 months in, and it's been a blast (with a lot of "learning experiences" along the way). Good luck!
MKIV Complete Kit #9822 l BluePrint 347 EFI l TKO600 l Power Steering l Heater/Defrost l
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Congrats on your kit delivery! Will be interested to follow along. I've never had the nerve to keep track of build time. Pretty sure it's more hours than I might guess. But being retired has its benefits. Two quick comments. Nice that you scored that 3.73 IRS setup. I'm assuming it has the Torsen limited slip. I have that in my Gen 3 Coupe and like it. Feels more planted to me. I do hear it clacking around a bit (a common observation from the Mustang crowd as well) but it's no big deal and probably less noticeable in a Roadster since it's not open to the back like the Coupe. I do think you may find that ratio a little short with a TKO though. Mine is with a T-56 which has different ratios than the TKO. But by all means drive it and a gear swap isn't the end of the world if it comes to that. Also, minor point, the number you're listing on your build thread is maybe your sales order number? Most builders commonly list their chassis serial number. It's on your MSO but maybe you don't have it yet. Also stamped on your chassis on the 2x2 tube just under the steering column. The last four numbers (or now five?) are your chassis number. Good luck with your build.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020.
Build Thread and
Video.
Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020.
Build Thread and
Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023.
Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
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I kept telling myself that I was going to do a time lapse on my build and got too busy to make it happen. Glad you are following through as it will be an awesome addition to your build storybook once completed. Welcome and good luck on your build!
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It was quite an adventure getting the car to its new home. I live in a gated community with a small gate and narrow streets. Mark, the Stewart driver, said there's no way to get it in. My original plan was to rent a uhaul auto trailer, meet him at a big parking lot, and take delivery there. Then I realized that the wheel width of the dolly I just put together was too narrow for the auto transport. It would have been sitting on the wood and I would not have been able to get it off the trailer. I called an audible with Mark and asked him to drop it off right outside the community. It's about 1/4 mile to my house on mostly flat roads and the caster wheels are tough enough. Mark arrived at 7am (!) and my buddy wasn't going to help for a couple of hours. Mark and his driving partner were awesome and volunteered to help me push it to the house. I also had the pickup to help tow it up one small hill. All was going swimmingly until I passed over the gate. I should have been paying a lot more attention and slowed down big time over the gate railing. The rail caught one of the wheels sideways and tore it off of the dolly. The good news was the wood was the only thing that hit and the chassis was far enough off of the ground to not touch. The bad news was we were stuck in the gate area... and the gate kept trying to close on the car!!! That was stressful. But then Mark realized if he pushed down on the back right of the car it would lift the missing front wheel so the other three wheels would support the weight. Well, it worked to clear the gate so we kept going up the road. At this point a friendly neighbor saw what we were doing. He said, "I've been looking at Factory Five!!" He brought his young son out to see. He also saw we needed help so he jumped in to help keep the missing wheel off the ground. It was pretty straight-forward from there, with only the speed bumps making it a little dicey. Here's a pic of the missing wheel before I swapped it out. The metal on the torn caster wheel was bent pretty significantly so it must have really gotten jammed in there...
Out with the old, in with the new. Here's a pic of what was in the garage before I made room for the Roadster. My uncle gave me this 68 vette 20 years ago and I've managed to keep in on the road. I have pictures of myself in this car when I am a few years old, and now I'm taking pics of my kids in it. I've been wanting to do a body off restoration, but the Roadster project with all new components sounded like a lot more fun
Here's the car in its new home!
Last edited by richtersand; 11-13-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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My buddy Craig and I got right to work taking the body off. My wife is helping pull the sides, and his wife has the 1 year old sleeping on her
Stored it in the back yard for now:
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After a spirited discussion on drilling pre/post powder coat, I decided to fit and drill before the powder coat. So I refitted the passenger side footbox and cleco'd the crap out of it.
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Don't forget about sleeping, you are moving very fast.
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I get the impression that the video clip isn't actually sped up at all.
Mk.4 FFR supplied Right hand drive
Received 12/2012 completed 12/2019
Gen1 Coyote / TKO600 / IRS
Lots of mods to make compliant for Australian design rules
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A couple more videos for you today. First I completed the driver side sheet metal work:
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Next I refitted the rest of the sheet metal and almost finished the PS seat sheet metal. Since I decided to do all the drilling and fitting for the sheet metal now (for powder coat) instead of throughout the build, I had to put the sheet metal back on. In retrospect it would have made more sense to just leave it on and pull it only if I need to drill the backside.
Second video of the day (I can only post one video per post).
Are these videos even interesting, or should I just post pics?
You will see towards the end of this video that my battery-powered drill dies and I have to use a wired one. It's actually something my grandpa gave me years ago and I never used before. It has to be 40+ years old at this point. It's a Craftsman. Interestingly, it only drills forward and there's no reverse on it. It is a KILLER drill. With it, I was drilling 2-3 times faster than with the battery powered one. Watch the end of the video how fast I go through the side frame mounts for the PS seat. I was blown away with out good it was. Who would have thought?
Last edited by richtersand; 11-15-2020 at 03:50 AM.
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Good luck on your build, looks like a solid build plan. I am about seven months in and just had my first start up. You are in for a great experience, looking forward to watching your progress! Garage looks organized and nice too!
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you are moving along really well. I was looking at your time tracker, interesting... I took right at 300 hours to build mine in 3.5 months. I worked 4 hours every weekday and 12 hours on Saturdays. Typically took off on Sundays to clean shop and watch a race or something. I'm wondering, I see you put in a 4 for the time you spent on inventory. I sure hope that you did a really thorough inventory, but I would say that 4 hours is not a lot for that. Seriously, you will find many other items during a part by part inventory that you can get resolved with FFR now rather than when you get to that point of needing the part and discovering you don't have it. Like your side panels as an example.
Have fun and take my inventory comments as just an observation and press on...
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I would second the inventory concern. I spent about 3 hours doing inventory on a base kit with enough deletions that the boxes amounted to little more than just front and rear suspension, minimal electrical nonsense, and aluminum panels.
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Originally Posted by
BadAsp427
you are moving along really well. I was looking at your time tracker, interesting... I took right at 300 hours to build mine in 3.5 months. I worked 4 hours every weekday and 12 hours on Saturdays. Typically took off on Sundays to clean shop and watch a race or something. I'm wondering, I see you put in a 4 for the time you spent on inventory. I sure hope that you did a really thorough inventory, but I would say that 4 hours is not a lot for that. Seriously, you will find many other items during a part by part inventory that you can get resolved with FFR now rather than when you get to that point of needing the part and discovering you don't have it. Like your side panels as an example.
Have fun and take my inventory comments as just an observation and press on...
WOW! 3.5 months is incredible. You are a machine!
Good observation on inventory and I can see how it could have taken a lot longer. I had my buddy with me who is really knowledgeable on car parts so I was calling out parts and he was able to quickly identify them (and get me up to speed). We probably could have gone a little slower, but I think we did a decent enough job.
I saw a lot of people have had issues with missing inventory, but we actually didn't find much missing. Even the metal panel I thought was missing was tucked away in a box that I later found. So I've been pleasantly surprised with this.
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Sheet metal work is progressing nicely. I have completed both footboxes, seats, and rear quarter panels. It's amazing how big the mess is, and how hard it is to see on my epoxy floor. My wife was happy to hear that the shavings are only going to be this bad for the next week or two. I'm getting the drop trunk from Russ so I'll finish the trunk and rear cockpit by tomorrow and be done with sheet metal!
For the seats, I was having trouble tracing the outlines for accurate drilling so instead I used dental floss to help get the line right.
Here's the time lapse from last night:
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Hey all, slowly but surely making my way through the sheet metal work. Up to 27.5 hours working on it! (link to time tracker) Front half of the car is going to powder coat on Monday. Holding off on a few major pieces for now, such as the transmission tunnel cover, splash guards, radiator housing, and a bunch of the smaller pieces. Here's a quick video showing the metal on the car and progress:
I had to trip the PS seat as its final resting position was slightly elevated.
Also, I've seen some comments in the past that people got the wrong front panel for the Coyote setup. This is my panel... can someone confirm this is the right panel for a Coyote? Sorry, I've had trouble positively identifying it...
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Love the time-lapse videos. Very cool! If I did that, you would probably just see me repeating the same steps 2 or 3 times, staring at it for an hour, then repeating a 4th time. Nice work. Keep the videos coming!
MKIV Complete Kit #9822 l BluePrint 347 EFI l TKO600 l Power Steering l Heater/Defrost l
Build Thread
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Originally Posted by
richtersand
Also, I've seen some comments in the past that people got the wrong front panel for the Coyote setup. This is my panel... can someone confirm this is the right panel for a Coyote? Sorry, I've had trouble positively identifying it...
Coyote doesn't make a difference for the DS footbox front. Or any other of the panels for that matter. All are the same as of several years ago. What does make a difference is if you're using a Wilwood pedal box or a donor pedal box. That picture is for the donor pedal box. Note two holes near the center for the steering column and master cylinder. Also the clutch cable exit is at the top right. If using the Wilwood pedal box, you want the piece with one hole for the steering column (master cylinders are inside the footbox) and the clutch cable on the left.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020.
Build Thread and
Video.
Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020.
Build Thread and
Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023.
Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
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This is the panel for Wilwood pedal box, I made the same mistake when I put mine together. One recommendation if you are powder coating your panels, take everything you can with you and have it done at one time. You will get the best price with one large batch, the extra panels will also come in handy to have a few extra coated in case you ever need to fabricate something down the road.
Last edited by Fman; 11-21-2020 at 12:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by
edwardb
Coyote doesn't make a difference for the DS footbox front. Or any other of the panels for that matter. All are the same as of several years ago. What does make a difference is if you're using a Wilwood pedal box or a donor pedal box. That picture is for the donor pedal box. Note two holes near the center for the steering column and master cylinder. Also the clutch cable exit is at the top right. If using the Wilwood pedal box, you want the piece with one hole for the steering column (master cylinders are inside the footbox) and the clutch cable on the left.
Originally Posted by
Fman
This is the panel for Wilwood pedal box, I made the same mistake when I put mine together. One recommendation if you are powder coating your panels, take everything you can with you and have it done at one time. You will get the best price with one large batch, the extra panels will also come in handy to have a few extra coated in case you ever need to fabricate something down the road.
Really helpful, thanks guys. I just added the 1.5 hours it took to rework the front panel to the time tracker
Last edited by richtersand; 11-23-2020 at 01:33 PM.
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just make sure the upper BJ is fully seated into the control arm. I tried forcing it in using a vise, but only got it threaded 3/4 of the way. there's an anticorrosion coating on the threads of the BJ that you'll need to remove using a wire wheel. once this is off, the BJ threads in very easily. I needed to use a torch and an impact wrench w/ a BJ socket to get it back off since I cranked on it so hard trying to get it installed, plus the loctite.
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Originally Posted by
egchewy79
just make sure the upper BJ is fully seated into the control arm. I tried forcing it in using a vise, but only got it threaded 3/4 of the way. there's an anticorrosion coating on the threads of the BJ that you'll need to remove using a wire wheel. once this is off, the BJ threads in very easily. I needed to use a torch and an impact wrench w/ a BJ socket to get it back off since I cranked on it so hard trying to get it installed, plus the loctite.
Thanks, sounds like it was a little tougher for you. I was definitely cranking on the second one but managed to get them both fully seated.
Matt
FFR Complete Kit, Coyote, Tremec TKX, 3.73 IRS, power steering, 18" Halibrands, Wilwood brakes, Gas-N pipes + header, Viking blue color
Roadster Build Time Tracker
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Originally Posted by
richtersand
Thanks, sounds like it was a little tougher for you. I was definitely cranking on the second one but managed to get them both fully seated.
nice, i almost ripped my bench vise off my bench trying to unthread the BJs.
use a paint pen and paint a stripe between the BJ and the UCA as the BJs have been know to unthread over time. others have placed a tack weld to secure it, but I don't have a welder.
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Thanks for starting the build thread! I am local to you, sent a PM regarding your powder coater.
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Originally Posted by
egchewy79
nice, i almost ripped my bench vise off my bench trying to unthread the BJs.
use a paint pen and paint a stripe between the BJ and the UCA as the BJs have been know to unthread over time. others have placed a tack weld to secure it, but I don't have a welder.
Will do!
Matt
FFR Complete Kit, Coyote, Tremec TKX, 3.73 IRS, power steering, 18" Halibrands, Wilwood brakes, Gas-N pipes + header, Viking blue color
Roadster Build Time Tracker
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Got the F panels back from powder coat. It's going to be a little pricey (I'm assuming about $1K for everything) but it's worth it to me. 2% the cost of the car to have most of the metal matching). I noticed the gloss on the F panels was a little higher than the black satin PC chassis. So I trekked back to the PC shop to go to a lower gloss. It's #2 black at that shop. Not sure if that's helpful to anyone else if they need to match to the chassis. I also noticed that a surprising amount of detail showed up on the F panel holes. So I took my deburring tool and went over all 47 panels that I dropped off (well, 45 I guess now that I picked up the F panels) to clean up the holes.
Overall, after drilling 500+ holes in sheet metal and the chassis, I am happy (so far) with the way things turned out. I will say that I am uncharacteristically picky with spacing and alignment of the holes. And there were a few unexpected misalignments that happened as I went along. I perfectly aligned one panel only to realize that the other panel will be visible and, of course, the holes never align as well on the receiving panel. My original plan was to use raw aluminum rivets. But realizing how picky I am about spacing/alignment, I called an audible and moved to black rivets that will blend in with the black panels. This way if there are any spacing/alignment issues it will be that much harder for me to see I ordered the multigrip Ultimate rivets from Summit at EdwardB's suggestion on previous threads (SUM-ABS4246URR-2, SUM-ABS6266URR-2). The multigrip appear to be more robust than standard rivets and, by definition, accept a wider range of thickness so it simplifies the task of making great connections.
Continuing work on the rear wheels/suspension for the last couple of days. Drilled out the holes in the differential and the knuckles to 5/8. The knuckles took a lot longer but the differential was pretty quick. I thought the sawzall created a lot of dust, check this one out! I dumped the dust in my trash and most of it went to the back lid and dumped on the ground anyway. I can't win
Pulled the hubs off of the used rear suspension setup I got from the salvage yard. Unfortunately, the hubs are not in great shape. Spent over an hour cleaning them up today, prepping for POR15. Anyone see any issues with putting POR15 on the middle portions of the hub? I realize I need to be careful near the rotating features and with the flatness on the mating faces, but other than that I imagine POR15 will go a long way in terms of rust reduction and aesthetics.
Last edited by richtersand; 11-28-2020 at 02:19 AM.
Matt
FFR Complete Kit, Coyote, Tremec TKX, 3.73 IRS, power steering, 18" Halibrands, Wilwood brakes, Gas-N pipes + header, Viking blue color
Roadster Build Time Tracker
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I ran into an issue with the upper control arm in the rear. They both were tight but one of the large screws that threads into the arm (the one with the female inlet for the thread rod end) completely seized about 1/3 in. I was planning to tough it out but after one too many grunts thought better of it. I planned to back it out and wire brush the threads to clean them up. I noticed some "mess" from the PC process on the other one so assumed it was more of the same. Well, this was one tough SOB. I thought of egchewy79 when he said he almost tore out his vice. I was complete stuck and with a combination of penetrating lube and a lever arm I was able to break it free.
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." Archimedes
This is what the threads looked like after I *finally* got it off:
Uh oh--something is wrong. Check the internal threads on the upper control arm and it looks like a glob of powder coat is not going anywhere. I'm going to email FFR about this, but I am curious if anyone has had any issues like this? It's an obvious QC issue, so I am hoping they will be able to fix/replace it. But curious what your experiences have been with things of this nature...
Matt
FFR Complete Kit, Coyote, Tremec TKX, 3.73 IRS, power steering, 18" Halibrands, Wilwood brakes, Gas-N pipes + header, Viking blue color
Roadster Build Time Tracker
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There's no way powder coat (if that's what it is) is going to bugger up threads like that. It's much softer than the metal and would quickly be knocked out when threading together with those size threads. First rule during assembly -- if something doesn't go together with only "mild" force, stop and figure out what's wrong. Either the wrong parts, mismatched threads, cross-threaded, defective or who knows. But no way any parts of the suspension should require the kind of force you're describing. The specific assembly you're working on right now provides for the alignment of the rear suspension. So with the jam nuts loosened, the pieces should rotate freely to allow for adjustment. The minute it started hanging up, you should have stopped. I would say the same thing for any other nut/bolt combination. You may be able to clean up those threads with a file enough that it will go together. But you have to figure out what caused the problem in the first place. May/may not be fixable.
Having said all that, I know/understand what you've described with the supplied ball joints. Many have struggled in a similar way although a wire brush to the ball joint threads seems to work for many. I personally would never install them with that much force. Keep in mind they're potential wear items, and at some point may need to be serviced. They won't get looser with time. You're going at this build with great enthusiasm and I applaud that. But I'd recommend slowing down and stepping back a bit when things aren't acting quite right. Finesse over force. Figure out what's wrong.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020.
Build Thread and
Video.
Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020.
Build Thread and
Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023.
Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
edwardb
There's no way powder coat (if that's what it is) is going to bugger up threads like that. It's much softer than the metal and would quickly be knocked out when threading together with those size threads. First rule during assembly -- if something doesn't go together with only "mild" force, stop and figure out what's wrong. Either the wrong parts, mismatched threads, cross-threaded, defective or who knows. But no way any parts of the suspension should require the kind of force you're describing. The specific assembly you're working on right now provides for the alignment of the rear suspension. So with the jam nuts loosened, the pieces should rotate freely to allow for adjustment. The minute it started hanging up, you should have stopped. I would say the same thing for any other nut/bolt combination. You may be able to clean up those threads with a file enough that it will go together. But you have to figure out what caused the problem in the first place. May/may not be fixable.
Having said all that, I know/understand what you've described with the supplied ball joints. Many have struggled in a similar way although a wire brush to the ball joint threads seems to work for many. I personally would never install them with that much force. Keep in mind they're potential wear items, and at some point may need to be serviced. They won't get looser with time. You're going at this build with great enthusiasm and I applaud that. But I'd recommend slowing down and stepping back a bit when things aren't acting quite right. Finesse over force. Figure out what's wrong.
I hear you, and thanks for the advice. I'm not sure if I did a good job capturing how it went down with the rear UCA, because I basically did what you suggested... the bolt caught, I got through about 360 more degrees with moderate force, then backed it out to figure out what was happening. It didn’t give me a lot of grief until I was backing it out, when I had to break out the lube and lever arm...
I'm not sure what it would be if it's not powder coat. It clearly hit the threads after they were cut on the piece. A file is an idea so I'll give that a shot and report back. Also emailing FFR to see what thoughts they have on it.
Last edited by richtersand; 11-28-2020 at 03:59 PM.
Matt
FFR Complete Kit, Coyote, Tremec TKX, 3.73 IRS, power steering, 18" Halibrands, Wilwood brakes, Gas-N pipes + header, Viking blue color
Roadster Build Time Tracker
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Hi Rich - I greatly appreciate the detail you are putting into your thread and the video. Our chases just arrived and we will be following you closely! I notice you show cutting aluminum and it sounds like you were making modifications to the foot boxes. Could you provide a little more detail about what modifications you are making and why? What were you cutting? What color powder costing are you going with? Best of luck!